The Silent, Vaccinated, Impatient Majority

[Lacessit]

28 minutes ago, hughrection said:

 

The unvaccinated spread any strain of COVID much more effectively, because they are sicker for longer.

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CDC: Boosters 90% effective in preventing severe COVID-19, hospitalizations

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending/cdc-studies-show-boosters-90-effective-preventing-severe-covid-19-hospitalizations/WCI3J7EFGNEX5BHKVX6IKWPP7E/

[hughrection]

22 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

The unvaccinated spread any strain of COVID much more effectively, because they are sicker for longer.

If they self isolate, then what does it matter. If a vaccinated person has omicron and shows no symptoms, they will still freely pass it on to others. Unless you are expecting everyone to take a home pcr test every 3 days, then it is completely unworkable.

The fact that they are reducing self isolation to only 5 days should tell you what is more important here and it's not the people but the economy.

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8 minutes ago, hughrection said:

If they self isolate, then what does it matter. If a vaccinated person has omicron and shows no symptoms, they will still freely pass it on to others. Unless you are expecting everyone to take a home pcr test every 3 days, then it is completely unworkable.

The fact that they are reducing self isolation to only 5 days should tell you what is more important here and it's not the people but the economy.

Your reply takes no account of Lacessit's point that the unvaccinated transmit more of the virus for longer periods than do the vaccinated.

[Jeffr2]

17 minutes ago, hughrection said:

If they self isolate, then what does it matter. If a vaccinated person has omicron and shows no symptoms, they will still freely pass it on to others. Unless you are expecting everyone to take a home pcr test every 3 days, then it is completely unworkable.

The fact that they are reducing self isolation to only 5 days should tell you what is more important here and it's not the people but the economy.

Guessing your not aware unvaccinated can have the virus and show NO symptoms.

[Ryan754326]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Guessing your not aware unvaccinated can have the virus and show NO symptoms.

Guess you’re not aware that the vaccinated can do exactly the same. 
 

How do you think Omicron spread around the world so fast if nobody can get on a plane without a vaccination and a test?

Edited January 22, 2022 by Ryan754326

[hughrection]

36 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Your reply takes no account of Lacessit's point that the unvaccinated transmit more of the virus for longer periods than do the vaccinated.

And if they are self isolating, then the term will be longer but we will still get the same outcome.

[hughrection]

43 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Guessing your not aware unvaccinated can have the virus and show NO symptoms.

Of course I am. I was replying to another poster with regard to their statement.

[hughrection]

5 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Right now we’re all after the unvaccinated, but if we manage to force everyone on earth to be vaccinated, next thing you know it will be the people who refuse to get their third or fourth booster who are causing all the trouble. Where does it end?

In Australia, if you don't have your booster - you are no longer fully vaccinated. ????

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11 minutes ago, hughrection said:

And if they are self isolating, then the term will be longer but we will still get the same outcome.

And if they are not self-isolating as in cases of the asymptomatic?

[Lacessit]

56 minutes ago, hughrection said:

If they self isolate, then what does it matter. If a vaccinated person has omicron and shows no symptoms, they will still freely pass it on to others. Unless you are expecting everyone to take a home pcr test every 3 days, then it is completely unworkable.

The fact that they are reducing self isolation to only 5 days should tell you what is more important here and it's not the people but the economy.

The first word in your post, "If". It destroys the rest of your argument.

I have not seen vaccinated people marching in the streets, protesting about anti-vaxxers, They just get on with their lives. OTOH, I have not seen any evidence anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are capable of acting responsibly.

Who knows, the next variant in the COVID series may paralyse its hosts like polio. Do you feel lucky?

[Ryan754326]

33 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And if they are not self-isolating as in cases of the asymptomatic?

Why don’t you acknowledge the vaccinated asymptomatics?

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26 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Why don’t you acknowledge the vaccinated asymptomatics?

Because the vaccinated spread less of the virus for less of the time than do the unvaccinated.

[Ryan754326]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

Who knows, the next variant in the COVID series may paralyse its hosts like polio. Do you feel lucky?

If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen. The vaccines don’t do a good enough job of stopping infection to prevent new mutations from popping up. 

If you’re infected, the virus is replicating inside your body, and mutation is possible. Vaccinated or not. 

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

 

As far as my mask goes, I’m in Mexico, where tourism was never shut down, and all covid related entry requirements have just been dropped. Everything seems just fine here.

Masks are required inside of public buildings and on public transit, at least on paper, but in practice few people seem

to care. It’s very refreshing. 
Hope all of you guys in Thailand are enjoying your safe space. 

LOL, Mexico recorded just under 50,000 new cases either today or yesterday. Thailand was a bit over 8000.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

In addition, Mexico is probably one of the world's rectums as far as kidnappings, murder and other violent crimes go.

 

Yes, I am enjoying my safe space in Thailand, thank you.

[Ryan754326]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because the vaccinated spread less of the virus for less of the time than do the unvaccinated.

Is there a new study concerning Omicron to comfirm this? Because everything I was reading about Delta a few months ago was saying that the vaccinated could be just as contagious as the unvaccinated when infected. I can’t see any reason why Omicron would be different, considering that it’s even more contagious than Delta, but I’m happy to be shown that I’m wrong. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

A number of posters here have been claiming, wrongly it seems, that COVID vaccines in general don't at all prevent Omicron infections. That's NOT what the latest science shows, according to a New York Times report last month.

 

"All vaccines still seem to provide a significant degree of protection against serious illness from Omicron, which is the most crucial goal. But only the Pfizer and Moderna shots, when reinforced by a booster, appear to have initial success at stopping infections, and these vaccines are unavailable in most of the world.

 

The other shots — including those from AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson and vaccines manufactured in China and Russia — do little to nothing to stop the spread of Omicron, early research shows.

...

The Pfizer and Moderna shots use the new mRNA technology, which has consistently offered the best protection against infection with every variant. All of the other vaccines are based on older methods of triggering an immune response.

 

The Chinese vaccines Sinopharm and Sinovac — which make up almost half of all shots delivered globally — offer almost zero protection from Omicron infection."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/19/health/omicron-vaccines-efficacy.html

 

And an update from the NYT yesterday on the same issue, citing new U.S. CDC data:

 

Booster shots are instrumental in protecting against Omicron, new C.D.C. data suggest.

 

"Booster shots of the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines aren’t just preventing infections with the highly contagious Omicron variant — they’re also keeping infected Americans from ending up in the hospital, according to data published on Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

 

The extra doses are 90 percent effective against hospitalization with the variant, the agency reported. Booster shots also reduced the likelihood of a visit to an emergency department or urgent care clinic. The extra doses were most effective against infection and death among Americans aged 50 and older, the data showed.

...

On Thursday night, the C.D.C. published additional data showing that in December, unvaccinated Americans 50 years and older were about 45 times more likely to be hospitalized than those who were vaccinated and got a third shot."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/21/health/cdc-covid-booster-omicron.html

 

 

Edited January 22, 2022 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Ryan754326]

19 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

LOL, Mexico recorded just under 50,000 new cases either today or yesterday. Thailand was a bit over 8000.

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

In addition, Mexico is probably one of the world's rectums as far as kidnappings, murder and other violent crimes go.

 

Yes, I am enjoying my safe space in Thailand, thank you.

I’m quite happy to take my chances in Mexico if it means being able to live a somewhat normal life.... It feels quite safe here, but I’m glad you’re enjoying Thailand. 
 

As far as case numbers in Mexico are concerned, I’ve had two jabs and recovered from covid already, so it’s no longer something that I worry about. 
Concerning case numbers in Thailand and the rest of SEA, all of the people I know there (Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians - not expats) who came down sick in the past two years, were too terrified of the consequences to report it, so the official numbers are meaningless to me. 
China, as an example, is still only reporting slightly over 100,000 total cases, and still less than 5000 total deaths. It’s amazing how good you can make things look when you have the power to arrest and imprison people for reporting bad news. 

[Lacessit]

20 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

If it’s going to happen, it’s going to happen. The vaccines don’t do a good enough job of stopping infection to prevent new mutations from popping up. 

If you’re infected, the virus is replicating inside your body, and mutation is possible. Vaccinated or not. 

Quite true, but the vaccines do prevent you getting an illness serious enough to kill you or disable you,

I really have to thank you for your post about Mexico, it made my day.

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13 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

Is there a new study concerning Omicron to comfirm this? Because everything I was reading about Delta a few months ago was saying that the vaccinated could be just as contagious as the unvaccinated when infected. I can’t see any reason why Omicron would be different, considering that it’s even more contagious than Delta, but I’m happy to be shown that I’m wrong. 

Given Tall Guy Johnny's post above, I guess your happy now.

[hughrection]

46 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And if they are not self-isolating as in cases of the asymptomatic?

We can do this all day if you like. ????

 

... and what if the vaccinated who are also asymptomatic are not self-isolating?

 

The viral load found in vaxed and unvaxed is the same for omicron - Fact. ????

 

[hughrection]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I have not seen any evidence anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are capable of acting responsibly.

Are you walking around with your eyes closed? There are 10 million unvaxed people in Thailand - are you suggesting none of them wear their mask, do not socially distance and just don't care. That is a brave statement to make.

There are 86,000 people working in the UK NHS - doctors, nurses, surgeons et all who are not vaxed. Are you suggesting that they too are not taking responsible actions in their daily work.

[Lacessit]

4 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

I’m quite happy to take my chances in Mexico if it means being able to live a somewhat normal life.... It feels quite safe here, but I’m glad you’re enjoying Thailand. 
 

As far as case numbers in Mexico are concerned, I’ve had two jabs and recovered from covid already, so it’s no longer something that I worry about. 
Concerning case numbers in Thailand and the rest of SEA, all of the people I know there (Thais, Vietnamese, Cambodians - not expats) who came down sick in the past two years, were too terrified of the consequences to report it, so the official numbers are meaningless to me. 
China, as an example, is still only reporting slightly over 100,000 total cases, and still less than 5000 total deaths. It’s amazing how good you can make things look when you have the power to arrest and imprison people for reporting bad news. 

I regard my life in Thailand as quite normal. It would certainly be abnormal if I was living in Australia.

Like you, I've had two jabs, had COVID, recovered quickly. I intend to have a booster when it is due, I am a belt and braces person.

You've had two jabs. You don't consider they gave you a degree of protection from more serious outcomes?

True, China has low case and death rates, and they do control the media. The CCP also has the power to lock down entire cities and compel its citizens to be vaccinated, which does not happen in democracies. That's an alternative explanation of their comparative success, unpalatable as it may be to civil libertarians.

[Ryan754326]

12 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Quite true, but the vaccines do prevent you getting an illness serious enough to kill you or disable you,

I really have to thank you for your post about Mexico, it made my day.

I’ve agreed with this statement since the beginning, and have said it on this forum many times. It’s the basis of my whole argument that vaccinated people should feel safe from others at this point. 

I have no idea how many unvaccinated people I’ve come into contact with during my time in Mexico, but it’s doesn’t matter to me because I feel protected having been vaccinated and already survived the disease. 

[hughrection]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

The CCP also has the power to lock down entire cities and compel its citizens to be vaccinated, which does not happen in democracies.

Remember what you said here when you are insisting all get vaccinated. ????

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To be fair, and report whatever legitimate news is available, there also was news in the past few days of a very small and preliminary study out of Israel on its use of a fourth Pfizer vaccine booster shot.

 

And, while the researchers involved in that study reported initial findings that the fourth Pfizer dose wasn't very effective at preventing Omicron infections, they also reported those vaccinated with the 4th dose did have somewhat fewer infections.

 

Israeli trial, world’s first, finds 4th dose ‘not good enough’ against Omicron

 

Expert at Sheba Medical Center says jab raises COVID antibody levels, but there are ‘still a lot of infections’ among those who received it

 

Nearly a month after Sheba Medical Center launched a landmark study to test the efficacy of a fourth COVID shot, the hospital said Monday that this fourth booster was only partially effective in protecting against the Omicron strain.

 

“The vaccine, which was very effective against the previous strains, is less effective against the Omicron strain,” Prof. Gili Regev-Yochay, a lead researcher in the experiment said.

 

“We see an increase in antibodies, higher than after the third dose,” Regev-Yochay said. “However, we see many infected with Omicron who received the fourth dose. Granted, a bit less than in the control group, but still a lot of infections,” she added.

 

(more)

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-trial-worlds-first-finds-4th-dose-not-good-enough-against-omicron/

 

So, even the Israel study above contradicts those here who are claiming (in this case mRNA vaccines) do nothing to prevent Omicron infections.

 

 

 

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, hughrection said:

Are you walking around with your eyes closed? There are 10 million unvaxed people in Thailand - are you suggesting none of them wear their mask, do not socially distance and just don't care. That is a brave statement to make.

There are 86,000 people working in the UK NHS - doctors, nurses, surgeons et all who are not vaxed. Are you suggesting that they too are not taking responsible actions in their daily work. You are not making sense at all.

Perhaps my post would make sense if you compare the actions of vaccinated people against deniers. We don't march in the streets, acting as superspreaders. Deniers do.

A useful starting point is the rallies Trump ran in the lead-up to the presidential election. Then the rallies held in Melbourne and Sidney. Don't try to tell me those idiots were acting responsibly.

[Ryan754326]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

 

You've had two jabs. You don't consider they gave you a degree of protection from more serious outcomes?

True, China has low case and death rates, and they do control the media. The CCP also has the power to lock down entire cities and compel its citizens to be vaccinated, which does not happen in democracies. That's an alternative explanation of their comparative success, unpalatable as it may be to civil libertarians.

I absolutely do consider that they’ve given me a good degree of protection, that’s why I’m walking around in Mexico unmasked, wherever I can, without a care in the world what others choose for themselves. 
 

The CCP does have the power to lock down whole cities and compel vaccinations, but considering the staggeringly high case numbers in other more transparent countries with high levels of vaccination, where supposedly superior vaccines were used, I don’t buy the idea that China’s high level of social control and sub-par vaccines have been able to achieve such absurdly low case numbers. 

Edited January 22, 2022 by Ryan754326

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14 minutes ago, hughrection said:

We can do this all day if you like. ????

 

... and what if the vaccinated who are also asymptomatic are not self-isolating?

 

The viral load found in vaxed and unvaxed is the same for omicron - Fact. ????

 

I don't know if that's a fact. What I do know is that the vaccinated are less likely to be infected in the first place. So if all those unvaccinated parties got vaccinated, less of them would be spreading the infection.

[Lacessit]

7 minutes ago, hughrection said:

Remember what you said here when you are insisting all get vaccinated. ????

Go back through my posts, please. I have never said that.

I have said if you want to refuse vaccination, there are consequences. It's up to you whether you accept them, or rage impotently against them.