Would you vaccinate your child aged 5-11 (with Pfizer)?

[thaibeachlovers]

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You don’t appear to have checked the string of this thread where I was referencing the 700 children in the US who have already lost their lives to covid as there was no vaccine available to them. Had there been then those 700 children would still be alive today.

IMO you can't know that for sure.

[Ryan754326]

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You are arguing against saving children’s lives by a simple vaccine, pathetic. It’s been explained countless times in this thread already, I’m not going to rehash it all again. 

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
Who is going to take responsibility in the rare circumstance that someone’s child suffers a severe reaction to the vaccine, or even dies? 
If the parents choose to have their child vaccinated, then that responsibility is theirs. If it’s forced, then that responsibility should be on the manufacturer of the vaccine, or the government who compelled them to accept it. 

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you can't know that for sure.

Scientific studies and the evidence from them say otherwise unless of course they have a very serious underlying issue.

[Credo]

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. 
I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. 
 

Dig deeper into the statistics and you’ll also see that many of those kids who died of covid had much more pressing health concerns to begin with, so it’s not realistic to assume that all of them would have survived if they’d been vaccinated. 

Ah, the typical ruse, the 'they would probably have died anyway.'  Well, you will find that most of them had no known condition that would have caused them to die, except Covid.  You might want to check about MIS-C.   

 

So many ways to minimize Covid.  First people compare it to road deaths and since more people die from that then Covid isn't so bad.  Now we have a comparison to kids drowning in pools.   

 

The insinuation that vaccines don't work or don't neutralize the disease is another canard.  No vaccine does that.  They all come with with an efficacy that is less than 100%.  

 

We will all die, but I suspect the parents who lost their 10 year old boy to Covid would rather have not had it happen when it did.   

 

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. 
I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. 

Its good for a child to learn to swim, it teaches them to be safe in the water. However as a parent of a young child you also have a duty to protect them from significant harm. If an accident happens in a swimming pool it is investigated and if fault is found then there can be severe consequences legally taken by social services or child protection police if warranted.

 

If a young toddler is left to cross a busy road by himself with no supervision and ends up dead as a result, the person responsible for the care of that child could well be prosecuted.

 

A more clear cut example being seat belts, as a parent carry a child in a car, if they are not sitting in an appropriate age specific child seat with belt, you will be prosecuted, at least in the UK. 

 

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
 

No country in the world has forced covid vaccinations for children, only recommended them and for the UK that is only for vulnerable children currently. So I'm not sure what you're arguing about as it is up to the parent. Its also up to the parent to face the consequences of that with travel requirements for the child and other situations that non vaxxed people have to adhere to which may also include children.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't appear to understand that some do not agree with your point of view, and they have every right not to do so.

 

What is going against your point of view IMO is that the vaccines don't actually neutralize the disease, but apparently just make the effects less severe.

From google dictionary- make (something) ineffective by applying an opposite force or effect.

 

BTW, if all human life is so precious, why have the vaccine companies not made the patents free so all the people in poor countries can get immunized?

If I'm wrong and they have, tell me.

We're in the middle of a global pandemic.  A global health crisis.  One that impacts everyone.  So your personal opinion isn't really the important matter.

 

You're beating a dead horse about vaccines not being effective.  Please....

 

Patents are one thing.  Ability to manufacture is another.  And very few countries have this ability.  So even a free patent wouldn't help every country.

 

But, there is one coming out shortly from the US.

 

https://theconversation.com/corbevax-a-new-patent-free-covid-19-vaccine-could-be-a-pandemic-game-changer-globally-174672

Quote

CORBEVAX, a new patent-free COVID-19 vaccine, could be a pandemic game changer globally

 

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
Who is going to take responsibility in the rare circumstance that someone’s child suffers a severe reaction to the vaccine, or even dies? 
If the parents choose to have their child vaccinated, then that responsibility is theirs. If it’s forced, then that responsibility should be on the manufacturer of the vaccine, or the government who compelled them to accept it. 

Who is going to take responsibility when a child dies because their parents refused the vaccine?  The odds of them dying, being hospitalized or suffering long term consequences from covid are much greater than the same from getting the vaccine. No comparison.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

The insinuation that vaccines don't work or don't neutralize the disease is another canard.  No vaccine does that.  They all come with with an efficacy that is less than 100%.  

I don't know anyone that has had smallpox since we had that vaccine. Was not community smallpox eradicated world wide by 1980 due to a global vaccination campaign?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Who is going to take responsibility when a child dies because their parents refused the vaccine?  The odds of them dying, being hospitalized or suffering long term consequences from covid are much greater than the same from getting the vaccine. No comparison.

That is for the courts to decide, not us.

[Bkk Brian]

Covid Vaccines cut the risk of MIS-C (multisystem inflammatory syndrome) by >91% (which affects 1 in 3,000 children after a Covid infection)

 

"Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were 91 percent effective in preventing MIS-C and 100 percent effective in preventing cases that required life support." Kids will continue to suffer and die from COVID unless we prioritize vaccinations.

 

A trio of scientific papers on the effects of COVID-19 in children emphasizes its risks and the strong benefits of vaccination. Learn how unvaccinated kids are bearing the brunt of COVID-19

 

Unvaccinated kids bear brunt of COVID-19, studies show

Published on Monday, January 24, 2022

 

The articles come from Overcoming COVID-19, a national study on COVID-19 in children and adolescents. Children’s of Mississippi at the University of Mississippi Medical Center is one of 70 pediatric hospitals working with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct the wide-ranging research.

 

https://www.umc.edu/news/News_Articles/2022/01/Pediatric-COVID-Research.html

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

We're in the middle of a global pandemic.  A global health crisis.  One that impacts everyone.  So your personal opinion isn't really the important matter.

 

You're beating a dead horse about vaccines not being effective.  Please....

 

Patents are one thing.  Ability to manufacture is another.  And very few countries have this ability.  So even a free patent wouldn't help every country.

 

But, there is one coming out shortly from the US.

 

https://theconversation.com/corbevax-a-new-patent-free-covid-19-vaccine-could-be-a-pandemic-game-changer-globally-174672

 

Ironic you should mention beating a dead horse...............................!

 

BTW, the only thing that has affected me or anyone I know, has been government restrictions. No covid where I live and never has been.

That may change in the future since the all knowing government allowed Australians to wander about the country without isolating on arrival. That didn't work out too well. Now the fear campaign has been ramped up, with frequent messages that we are all going to be infected and get sick, despite many infected having nothing more than mild ( if any ) symptoms.

[Jeffr2]

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is for the courts to decide, not us.

Shows why we're in such a mess...people not taking responsibility.

[Jeffr2]

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ironic you should mention beating a dead horse...............................!

 

BTW, the only thing that has affected me or anyone I know, has been government restrictions. No covid where I live and never has been.

That may change in the future since the all knowing government allowed Australians to wander about the country without isolating on arrival. That didn't work out too well. Now the fear campaign has been ramped up, with frequent messages that we are all going to be infected and get sick, despite many infected having nothing more than mild ( if any ) symptoms.

Yeah, sadly, that dead horse has to be beaten as many just don't get it.

 

How do you know there has been no covid where you live?  Unless everyone was tested, you have no idea.

 

Fear campaign?  Over 10MM dead?  Ummm...that's scary.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Shows why we're in such a mess...people not taking responsibility.

Perhaps because we ain't allowed to any more.

[Jeffr2]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps because we ain't allowed to any more.

Sad it had to come to that.  If people just acted responsibility, it would have been needed.  Too many fell for the misinformation.  Or, the, "You can't make me!" BS.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

How do you know there has been no covid where you live?  Unless everyone was tested, you have no idea.

Now that really is getting desperate! There isn't any, because if there was the government would be all over the place trumpeting it from the rooftops. it wouldn't be something they were trying to cover up.

 

BTW if someone has no symptoms at all, why would they get tested? If they had a false positive it'd just mess up their lives and the lives of their friends and relatives terribly.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad it had to come to that.  If people just acted responsibility, it would have been needed.  Too many fell for the misinformation.  Or, the, "You can't make me!" BS.

I wasn't talking about covid. In general, we ain't allowed to take responsibility, IMO.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah, sadly, that dead horse has to be beaten as many just don't get it.

LOL. It's not that we don't get it. Rather that some just don't care about it any more ( if they ever did ).

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Fear campaign?  Over 10MM dead?  Ummm...that's scary.

I don't know any of them, and no one I know knows any. Why would we be scared of it?

 

In any event being scared isn't going to make any difference re catching it, IMO.

 

 

 

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now that really is getting desperate! There isn't any, because if there was the government would be all over the place trumpeting it from the rooftops. it wouldn't be something they were trying to cover up.

 

BTW if someone has no symptoms at all, why would they get tested? If they had a false positive it'd just mess up their lives and the lives of their friends and relatives terribly.

 But at least you admit it's possibly in your community.

[Jeffr2]

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. It's not that we don't get it. Rather that some just don't care about it any more ( if they ever did ).

And thus. The reason we're still in this mess.

[fjb 24]

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Covid Vaccines cut the risk of MIS-C (multisystem inflammatory syndrome) by >91% (which affects 1 in 3,000 children after a Covid infection)

"Another hard question that is most likely also causing confusion and disagreement is how we define “severe” disease in children. Children can get Covid, but their death and hospitalization rates are much lower than for adults. The inflammatory syndrome MIS-C is rare. Long Covid has gained wide attention, but recent studies have shown that rates are low among children and not dissimilar to effects caused by other viral illnesses."

source weblink

[onthedarkside]

Several name calling and trolling posts have been removed, along with replies. Also a COVID post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims.

 

Please comment on the topic, and not on fellow forum members.

 

[wolf81]

On 1/26/2022 at 6:58 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Vaccines do stop transmission.  How?  By helping you not get the virus in the first place! LOL

 

If transmission stops, it's less likely to be transmitted to animals, or to mutate.  A very good thing.

 

A political choice?  What?  I don't know any government that doesn't want this pandemic to end.

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. Plenty of people still get infected, even with COVID vaccine and boosters. Have you seen the latest stats on Israel, one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries in the world?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

 

These stats are only possible if vaccinated people transmit the disease to other vaccinated people.

 

Yes, classifying COVID as a pandemic is a political choice. Several countries want to categorise COVID soon as an endemic disease (like the flu), including Thailand:

 

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/thailand-will-declare-covid-19-endemic-whether-who-agrees-or-not

Edited January 27, 2022 by wolf81

[Jeffr2]

51 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. Plenty of people still get infected, even with COVID vaccine and boosters. Have you seen the latest stats on Israel, one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries in the world?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

 

These stats are only possible if vaccinated people transmit the disease to other vaccinated people.

 

Yes, classifying COVID as a pandemic is a political choice. Several countries want to categorise COVID soon as an endemic disease (like the flu), including Thailand:

 

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/thailand-will-declare-covid-19-endemic-whether-who-agrees-or-not

The vaccines help stop transmission significantly. But don't 100% stop it. So yes, people still get infected, but don't get as sick if vaccinated.

 

This has been widely discussed.

 

Covid will eventually be endemic. Just like the Spanish flu. But nobody knows what's up next. Nobody, especially if a new crazy variant crops up.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, Jeffr2 said:

 But at least you admit it's possibly in your community.

OK, I'll admit it may be in the community, but it's not making anyone sick ( so far ), and no one that has been tested has been positive. Sooo, if it is in the community it's doing a great job of hiding.

 

However, today, tomorrow or next week, next month etc the government ( and I ) fully expect it be with us. Reported a couple of days ago that one case detected in the not too far away city, so it's probably just a matter of time now.

Actually, I'm surprised it took so long to get here, given the claim that it's so infectious. When omicron was first reported in NZ I even decided not to visit my friends as I didn't want to be responsible for infecting them, should I get it first, but that was so long ago, and with no evidence of infections so far I gave that up and returned to life as normal, which was nice.

Now, it's only a case of waiting, and preparing as best we can. I went to the pharmacy and stocked up with over the counter meds for the symptoms should I contract it. After all, if I didn't already have the meds and got it, I wouldn't be able to go get them, as would be in isolation.

Of course, I'll be very happy if I don't have to use them.

[Credo]

17 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't know anyone that has had smallpox since we had that vaccine. Was not community smallpox eradicated world wide by 1980 due to a global vaccination campaign?

Yes, it was eradicated, but the smallpox vaccine was not 100% effective.  Its efficacy was quite high at 95%, but when enough people are vaccinated, the disease will grind to a halt.   Humans are the only host of the smallpox virus, so with a dwindling number of people to infect, it eventually died out.  Immunity to smallpox is fairly long lasting, with vaccinations being effective for between 3 to 5 years. 

 

There are a lot of factors at play in catching a disease.  A guy I know who works at a large grocery store has not been vaccinated and only wears a mask if forced to.  He's a little on the elderly side.  The store has had major outbreaks of Covid among employees, both vaccinated and not, both young and old, but for some reason he has dodged a bullet.  I suspect luck is a factor.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Credo said:

There are a lot of factors at play in catching a disease.  A guy I know who works at a large grocery store has not been vaccinated and only wears a mask if forced to.  He's a little on the elderly side.  The store has had major outbreaks of Covid among employees, both vaccinated and not, both young and old, but for some reason he has dodged a bullet.  I suspect luck is a factor.

IMO luck is always a factor, but genetics helps too. Humans would never have survived long had not some been immune to certain diseases eg the Black Death plague, IMO.

[wolf81]

Sweden advises agains vaccinating kids, “benefits don’t outweigh the risks”: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/sweden-decides-against-recommending-covid-vaccines-kids-aged-5-12-2022-01-27/

[wolf81]

53 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

The vaccines help stop transmission significantly. But don't 100% stop it. So yes, people still get infected, but don't get as sick if vaccinated.

 

This has been widely discussed.

 

Covid will eventually be endemic. Just like the Spanish flu. But nobody knows what's up next. Nobody, especially if a new crazy variant crops up.

Transmission isn’t reduced in a significant way else we’d see much less spread in Israel compared to many less vaccinated countries. Again, it’s one of the most vaxxed and boosted countries in the world. I just don’t understand how you can claim this especially with Omicron for which the current vaccines were not developed.