13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not about road traffic accidents or drowning, it’s about preventable needless deaths that are not caused by accident but by a virus that can be neutralized by a tested and safe vaccine.

 

It’s not particularly difficult to understand this concept.

You don't appear to understand that some do not agree with your point of view, and they have every right not to do so.

 

What is going against your point of view IMO is that the vaccines don't actually neutralize the disease, but apparently just make the effects less severe.

From google dictionary- make (something) ineffective by applying an opposite force or effect.

 

BTW, if all human life is so precious, why have the vaccine companies not made the patents free so all the people in poor countries can get immunized?

If I'm wrong and they have, tell me.

30 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

This is not about road traffic accidents or drowning, it’s about preventable needless deaths that are not caused by accident but by a virus that can be neutralized by a tested and safe vaccine.

 

It’s not particularly difficult to understand this concept.

How is it different if we can easily prevent an accident by eliminating the cause?
Helmets are mandatory. seatbelts are mandatory. So why not just outlaw swimming pools, bicycles, and any toy that is small enough to fit in a child’s mouth? Wouldn’t that prevent needless deaths too?

 

I know a few people who actually think motorcycles should be outlawed. They think they’re frivolous, dangerous toys, that serve no real purpose as far as practical transportation is concerned.

Its hard to argue with that assertion, but I just happen to like riding them, and I’m willing to accept the risks. 
 

If the vaccines actually neutralized covid, I’d be far more sympathetic to the mandates.
I was happy to get the first two shots, but I’ve survived the disease itself, and I don’t like the idea of being cast out of society if I won’t sign up for the yearly subscription. 

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't appear to understand that some do not agree with your point of view, and they have every right not to do so.

 

What is going against your point of view IMO is that the vaccines don't actually neutralize the disease, but apparently just make the effects less severe.

From google dictionary- make (something) ineffective by applying an opposite force or effect.

You don’t appear to have checked the string of this thread where I was referencing the 700 children in the US who have already lost their lives to covid as there was no vaccine available to them. Had there been then those 700 children would still be alive today.

4 minutes ago, Ryan754326 said:

If the vaccines actually neutralized covid, I’d be far more sympathetic to the mandates.
I was happy to get the first two shots, but I’ve survived the disease itself, and I don’t like the idea of being cast out of society if I won’t sign up for the yearly subscription. 

You are arguing against saving children’s lives by a simple vaccine, pathetic. It’s been explained countless times in this thread already, I’m not going to rehash it all again. 

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You don’t appear to have checked the string of this thread where I was referencing the 700 children in the US who have already lost their lives to covid as there was no vaccine available to them. Had there been then those 700 children would still be alive today.

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. 
I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. 
 

Dig deeper into the statistics and you’ll also see that many of those kids who died of covid had much more pressing health concerns to begin with, so it’s not realistic to assume that all of them would have survived if they’d been vaccinated. 

14 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You don’t appear to have checked the string of this thread where I was referencing the 700 children in the US who have already lost their lives to covid as there was no vaccine available to them. Had there been then those 700 children would still be alive today.

IMO you can't know that for sure.

11 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You are arguing against saving children’s lives by a simple vaccine, pathetic. It’s been explained countless times in this thread already, I’m not going to rehash it all again. 

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
Who is going to take responsibility in the rare circumstance that someone’s child suffers a severe reaction to the vaccine, or even dies? 
If the parents choose to have their child vaccinated, then that responsibility is theirs. If it’s forced, then that responsibility should be on the manufacturer of the vaccine, or the government who compelled them to accept it. 

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

IMO you can't know that for sure.

Scientific studies and the evidence from them say otherwise unless of course they have a very serious underlying issue.

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. 
I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. 
 

Dig deeper into the statistics and you’ll also see that many of those kids who died of covid had much more pressing health concerns to begin with, so it’s not realistic to assume that all of them would have survived if they’d been vaccinated. 

Ah, the typical ruse, the 'they would probably have died anyway.'  Well, you will find that most of them had no known condition that would have caused them to die, except Covid.  You might want to check about MIS-C.   

 

So many ways to minimize Covid.  First people compare it to road deaths and since more people die from that then Covid isn't so bad.  Now we have a comparison to kids drowning in pools.   

 

The insinuation that vaccines don't work or don't neutralize the disease is another canard.  No vaccine does that.  They all come with with an efficacy that is less than 100%.  

 

We will all die, but I suspect the parents who lost their 10 year old boy to Covid would rather have not had it happen when it did.   

 

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

Maybe he saw my reference to the even greater number of children who would still be alive today if we’d just forced those selfish swimming pool owners to fill them in with dirt. 
I bet all those parents who ignored the statistics wish they hadn’t left them sitting there full of water. 

Its good for a child to learn to swim, it teaches them to be safe in the water. However as a parent of a young child you also have a duty to protect them from significant harm. If an accident happens in a swimming pool it is investigated and if fault is found then there can be severe consequences legally taken by social services or child protection police if warranted.

 

If a young toddler is left to cross a busy road by himself with no supervision and ends up dead as a result, the person responsible for the care of that child could well be prosecuted.

 

A more clear cut example being seat belts, as a parent carry a child in a car, if they are not sitting in an appropriate age specific child seat with belt, you will be prosecuted, at least in the UK. 

 

1 hour ago, Ryan754326 said:

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
 

No country in the world has forced covid vaccinations for children, only recommended them and for the UK that is only for vulnerable children currently. So I'm not sure what you're arguing about as it is up to the parent. Its also up to the parent to face the consequences of that with travel requirements for the child and other situations that non vaxxed people have to adhere to which may also include children.

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You don't appear to understand that some do not agree with your point of view, and they have every right not to do so.

 

What is going against your point of view IMO is that the vaccines don't actually neutralize the disease, but apparently just make the effects less severe.

From google dictionary- make (something) ineffective by applying an opposite force or effect.

 

BTW, if all human life is so precious, why have the vaccine companies not made the patents free so all the people in poor countries can get immunized?

If I'm wrong and they have, tell me.

We're in the middle of a global pandemic.  A global health crisis.  One that impacts everyone.  So your personal opinion isn't really the important matter.

 

You're beating a dead horse about vaccines not being effective.  Please....

 

Patents are one thing.  Ability to manufacture is another.  And very few countries have this ability.  So even a free patent wouldn't help every country.

 

But, there is one coming out shortly from the US.

 

https://theconversation.com/corbevax-a-new-patent-free-covid-19-vaccine-could-be-a-pandemic-game-changer-globally-174672

Quote

CORBEVAX, a new patent-free COVID-19 vaccine, could be a pandemic game changer globally

 

2 hours ago, Ryan754326 said:

No, I’m not arguing against it, I’m arguing that it should be up to the parents of that child. 
Who is going to take responsibility in the rare circumstance that someone’s child suffers a severe reaction to the vaccine, or even dies? 
If the parents choose to have their child vaccinated, then that responsibility is theirs. If it’s forced, then that responsibility should be on the manufacturer of the vaccine, or the government who compelled them to accept it. 

Who is going to take responsibility when a child dies because their parents refused the vaccine?  The odds of them dying, being hospitalized or suffering long term consequences from covid are much greater than the same from getting the vaccine. No comparison.

2 hours ago, Credo said:

The insinuation that vaccines don't work or don't neutralize the disease is another canard.  No vaccine does that.  They all come with with an efficacy that is less than 100%.  

I don't know anyone that has had smallpox since we had that vaccine. Was not community smallpox eradicated world wide by 1980 due to a global vaccination campaign?

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Who is going to take responsibility when a child dies because their parents refused the vaccine?  The odds of them dying, being hospitalized or suffering long term consequences from covid are much greater than the same from getting the vaccine. No comparison.

That is for the courts to decide, not us.

Covid Vaccines cut the risk of MIS-C (multisystem inflammatory syndrome) by >91% (which affects 1 in 3,000 children after a Covid infection)

 

"Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine were 91 percent effective in preventing MIS-C and 100 percent effective in preventing cases that required life support." Kids will continue to suffer and die from COVID unless we prioritize vaccinations.

 

A trio of scientific papers on the effects of COVID-19 in children emphasizes its risks and the strong benefits of vaccination. Learn how unvaccinated kids are bearing the brunt of COVID-19

 

Unvaccinated kids bear brunt of COVID-19, studies show

Published on Monday, January 24, 2022

 

The articles come from Overcoming COVID-19, a national study on COVID-19 in children and adolescents. Children’s of Mississippi at the University of Mississippi Medical Center is one of 70 pediatric hospitals working with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to conduct the wide-ranging research.

 

https://www.umc.edu/news/News_Articles/2022/01/Pediatric-COVID-Research.html

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

We're in the middle of a global pandemic.  A global health crisis.  One that impacts everyone.  So your personal opinion isn't really the important matter.

 

You're beating a dead horse about vaccines not being effective.  Please....

 

Patents are one thing.  Ability to manufacture is another.  And very few countries have this ability.  So even a free patent wouldn't help every country.

 

But, there is one coming out shortly from the US.

 

https://theconversation.com/corbevax-a-new-patent-free-covid-19-vaccine-could-be-a-pandemic-game-changer-globally-174672

 

Ironic you should mention beating a dead horse...............................!

 

BTW, the only thing that has affected me or anyone I know, has been government restrictions. No covid where I live and never has been.

That may change in the future since the all knowing government allowed Australians to wander about the country without isolating on arrival. That didn't work out too well. Now the fear campaign has been ramped up, with frequent messages that we are all going to be infected and get sick, despite many infected having nothing more than mild ( if any ) symptoms.

36 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That is for the courts to decide, not us.

Shows why we're in such a mess...people not taking responsibility.

31 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Ironic you should mention beating a dead horse...............................!

 

BTW, the only thing that has affected me or anyone I know, has been government restrictions. No covid where I live and never has been.

That may change in the future since the all knowing government allowed Australians to wander about the country without isolating on arrival. That didn't work out too well. Now the fear campaign has been ramped up, with frequent messages that we are all going to be infected and get sick, despite many infected having nothing more than mild ( if any ) symptoms.

Yeah, sadly, that dead horse has to be beaten as many just don't get it.

 

How do you know there has been no covid where you live?  Unless everyone was tested, you have no idea.

 

Fear campaign?  Over 10MM dead?  Ummm...that's scary.

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

Shows why we're in such a mess...people not taking responsibility.

Perhaps because we ain't allowed to any more.

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps because we ain't allowed to any more.

Sad it had to come to that.  If people just acted responsibility, it would have been needed.  Too many fell for the misinformation.  Or, the, "You can't make me!" BS.

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

How do you know there has been no covid where you live?  Unless everyone was tested, you have no idea.

Now that really is getting desperate! There isn't any, because if there was the government would be all over the place trumpeting it from the rooftops. it wouldn't be something they were trying to cover up.

 

BTW if someone has no symptoms at all, why would they get tested? If they had a false positive it'd just mess up their lives and the lives of their friends and relatives terribly.

2 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Sad it had to come to that.  If people just acted responsibility, it would have been needed.  Too many fell for the misinformation.  Or, the, "You can't make me!" BS.

I wasn't talking about covid. In general, we ain't allowed to take responsibility, IMO.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah, sadly, that dead horse has to be beaten as many just don't get it.

LOL. It's not that we don't get it. Rather that some just don't care about it any more ( if they ever did ).

9 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Fear campaign?  Over 10MM dead?  Ummm...that's scary.

I don't know any of them, and no one I know knows any. Why would we be scared of it?

 

In any event being scared isn't going to make any difference re catching it, IMO.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now that really is getting desperate! There isn't any, because if there was the government would be all over the place trumpeting it from the rooftops. it wouldn't be something they were trying to cover up.

 

BTW if someone has no symptoms at all, why would they get tested? If they had a false positive it'd just mess up their lives and the lives of their friends and relatives terribly.

 But at least you admit it's possibly in your community.

33 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. It's not that we don't get it. Rather that some just don't care about it any more ( if they ever did ).

And thus. The reason we're still in this mess.

4 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Covid Vaccines cut the risk of MIS-C (multisystem inflammatory syndrome) by >91% (which affects 1 in 3,000 children after a Covid infection)

"Another hard question that is most likely also causing confusion and disagreement is how we define “severe” disease in children. Children can get Covid, but their death and hospitalization rates are much lower than for adults. The inflammatory syndrome MIS-C is rare. Long Covid has gained wide attention, but recent studies have shown that rates are low among children and not dissimilar to effects caused by other viral illnesses."

source weblink

Several name calling and trolling posts have been removed, along with replies. Also a COVID post with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims.

 

Please comment on the topic, and not on fellow forum members.

 

On 1/26/2022 at 6:58 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Vaccines do stop transmission.  How?  By helping you not get the virus in the first place! LOL

 

If transmission stops, it's less likely to be transmitted to animals, or to mutate.  A very good thing.

 

A political choice?  What?  I don't know any government that doesn't want this pandemic to end.

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. Plenty of people still get infected, even with COVID vaccine and boosters. Have you seen the latest stats on Israel, one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries in the world?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

 

These stats are only possible if vaccinated people transmit the disease to other vaccinated people.

 

Yes, classifying COVID as a pandemic is a political choice. Several countries want to categorise COVID soon as an endemic disease (like the flu), including Thailand:

 

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/thailand-will-declare-covid-19-endemic-whether-who-agrees-or-not

51 minutes ago, wolf81 said:

COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. Plenty of people still get infected, even with COVID vaccine and boosters. Have you seen the latest stats on Israel, one of the most vaccinated and boosted countries in the world?

 

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/israel/

 

These stats are only possible if vaccinated people transmit the disease to other vaccinated people.

 

Yes, classifying COVID as a pandemic is a political choice. Several countries want to categorise COVID soon as an endemic disease (like the flu), including Thailand:

 

https://thethaiger.com/coronavirus/thailand-will-declare-covid-19-endemic-whether-who-agrees-or-not

The vaccines help stop transmission significantly. But don't 100% stop it. So yes, people still get infected, but don't get as sick if vaccinated.

 

This has been widely discussed.

 

Covid will eventually be endemic. Just like the Spanish flu. But nobody knows what's up next. Nobody, especially if a new crazy variant crops up.