Are we just going to have to live with unvaccinated people across Thailand?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

That was a very few total, and most only required it flying from the US to Canada.

 

When it comes to Air Asia, I have just checked, and they have lifted some restrictions. This list is from September last year.

 

All in all, this shows as I suspected, the main rule is that you can fly without vaccination, but with a few exceptions.

the exceptions heavily affect most Australians since QANTAS is our largest overseas airline.

[khaowong1]

15 hours ago, bluejets said:

I think those that don't get vaccinated are just a bunch of <deleted> with no thought for anyone but themselves.

Eventually I believe they will reconsider, as it already has become, no vaccination, no air travel, no visiting age care facilities, not allowed on public transport etc. etc.

 

I'm sorry, but if your vaccinated, doesn't that protect you from those who are un-vaccinated.  So what are you worrying about?  Asking for a friend. 

[thaibreaker]

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

the exceptions heavily affect most Australians since QANTAS is our largest overseas airline.

Yes, mainly Australians and Canadians, or people travelling to those countries. 

Which was highlighted by the denied entry of Novak Djokovic recently, who tried to come in to Australia via Spain (no issues there btw). But the airline he used, had no restrictions, so it couldn't have been Qantas.

 

Thanks again for the list. It might be a little different now though, 6 months later.

Edited February 4, 2022 by thaibreaker

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, thaibreaker said:

Yes, mainly Australians and Canadians, or people travelling to those countries. 

Which was clearly highlighted by the denied entry of Novak Djokovic recently, who tried to come in to Australia via Spain (no issues there btw).

 

Thanks again for the list. It might be a little different now though, 6 months later.

If you are a non-U.S. citizen who is a nonimmigrant (not a U.S. citizen, U.S. national, lawful permanent resident, or traveling to the United States on an immigrant visa), you will need to show proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 before you travel by air to the United States from a foreign country.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/proof-of-vaccination.html

 

All But 2 Major U.S. Airlines Have Announced Vaccine Mandates

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/10/03/major-us-airlines-vaccine-mandates/?sh=53c54d6873d9

Edited February 4, 2022 by ozimoron

[thaibreaker]

21 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

If you are a non-U.S. citizen who is a nonimmigrant (not a U.S. citizen, U.S. national, lawful permanent resident, or traveling to the United States on an immigrant visa), you will need to show proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 before you travel by air to the United States from a foreign country.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/proof-of-vaccination.html

 

All But 2 Major U.S. Airlines Have Announced Vaccine Mandates

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2021/10/03/major-us-airlines-vaccine-mandates/?sh=53c54d6873d9

Probably why they have the strict rules to Canada as well.

 

USA's rules do not affect European or Asian travellers, or airliners to those countries. So those US rules (and ditto airliner rules going there) are still the exception to the rule. 

 

Anyway, even if you are allowed to fly, doesn't mean that you're allowed in to the destination you are going. It only means you don't need to show proof of vaccination to the airline. For some travellers who are flying home to their own countries, that will be essential. No country will deny one of their own citizens to get back into their countries, vaccinated or not.

Edited February 4, 2022 by thaibreaker

[pomchop]

and on and on and on and on........

 

 

and yet it goes on and on page after page week after week day after day.......squabble over percentages, methods, statistics, etc....can't see the forest for the trees types who simply refuse to see what is as clear as day.....

 

 

Many will spend hours scouring the internet to find some crackpot idiots claiming to dispute the obvious fact that vaccinations save untold numbers of lives and hospitalizations rather than spend 20 mins to go get a shot.  It is truly stupid behavior that has and continues to prolong the covid disruption of lives and economies worldwide.  Just admit you were and are wrong and go get the damn shots.

[ThLT]

48 minutes ago, pomchop said:

and on and on and on and on........

 

 

and yet it goes on and on page after page week after week day after day.......squabble over percentages, methods, statistics, etc....can't see the forest for the trees types who simply refuse to see what is as clear as day.....

 

 

Many will spend hours scouring the internet to find some crackpot idiots claiming to dispute the obvious fact that vaccinations save untold numbers of lives and hospitalizations rather than spend 20 mins to go get a shot.  It is truly stupid behavior that has and continues to prolong the covid disruption of lives and economies worldwide.  Just admit you were and are wrong and go get the damn shots.

... says the guy who didn't read the thread. ????

[Sunnny]

I was 100% pro vaccine before. Now, when the things have changed, and the vaccine’s usefulness seriously diminished,  I think people should be given more choice on the matter.

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

and on and on and on and on........

 

 

and yet it goes on and on page after page week after week day after day.......squabble over percentages, methods, statistics, etc....can't see the forest for the trees types who simply refuse to see what is as clear as day.....

 

 

Many will spend hours scouring the internet to find some crackpot idiots claiming to dispute the obvious fact that vaccinations save untold numbers of lives and hospitalizations rather than spend 20 mins to go get a shot.  It is truly stupid behavior that has and continues to prolong the covid disruption of lives and economies worldwide.  Just admit you were and are wrong and go get the damn shots.

Did you read the reasons as to why some people would rather not take the shots ?

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the reasons as to why some people would rather not take the shots ?

Many have taken the shots anyway but carry on about personal choice and freedoms. It's mostly all politics. There's extremely scant evidence the shots are anything like as dangerous as the virus.

[pomchop]

45 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the reasons as to why some people would rather not take the shots ?

crackpot idiots claiming to dispute the obvious fact that vaccinations save untold numbers of lives and hospitalizations rather than spend 20 mins to go get a shot.  I

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, pomchop said:

crackpot idiots claiming to dispute the obvious fact that vaccinations save untold numbers of lives and hospitalizations rather than spend 20 mins to go get a shot.  I

"Crackpot idiots "  

OK , fair enough good point , well made 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the reasons as to why some people would rather not take the shots ?

The reason boil down to either inconsistent standards for statistics or an irrational fear that somewhere down the line some deleterious consequence of vaccinations will emerge. In the former case, it's about focusing on extremely rare events. In the latter, it's about ignoring the fact that there has never been a case of a vaccine resulting in latent deleterious effects whereas there are plenty of viral infections doing just that.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, ThLT said:

It's maybe informative for you and me. But people who have no understanding of statistics are surprised when they see a big number, or when someone says "it's 150% more effective." The reality is that the study says: 25% of vaccinated got infected, and 38% of unvaccinated got infected. 

 

Also, if you don't mention the data of which that percentage is based on, it is misleading and disingenuous. 

 

I routinely described the study as showing that people who were not vaccinated as being one and a half times more likely to get infected.  You are the one who keeps going on about 150% more effective.

 

Also, one and a half times more likely to get infected is much less misleading than continually stating 25% and 38% without mentioning the data of which the percentage is based on.  Accusing me of being "misleading and disingenuous" for not referring back to the original study while you also failed to do so is misleading and disingenuous.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

Not always unvaxxed with previous infection have less chance than those vaxxed without a previous infection and getting vaxxed after an infection provides little to no extra protection according to a study released by the CDC in the US.

 

FIGURE. Incident laboratory-confirmed COVID-19-associated hospitalizations among immunologic cohorts defined by vaccination and previous diagnosis histories — California, May 30–November 13, 2021*^,†

 

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e1.htm#contribAff

The study shows that the greatest risk by far is being unvaccinated with no prior infection.  Prior infection provided greater protection against double vaccination without a booster shot against the Delta variant, which was a reversal from earlier variants of the virus.  Prior infection plus vaccination provided the greatest protection, so it is always a good idea to get vaccinated.

 

The study does not show the effectiveness of booster shots, but another CDC study show that they give greatly reduce the risk of infection compared to fully vaccinated without booster shots, and even more so compared to the unvaccinated.  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

 

"

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, ThLT said:

If you want to be required to get boosted every 9 months, feel free to do so. Don't expect everyone to follow along with you in your enthusiasm. 

 

And no, you're wrong, it's not free. It's paid for using taxes paid by Thai people.

 

I wasn't required to get boosted, I chose to do so after assessing the evidence from reputable sources.  I will continue to do so whenever evidence shows it is worthwhile.  I also choose to eat when I'm hungry, even though I know I will be hungry again eventually.  Some things are worth repeating.

 

Yes, taxes pay for the vaccinations.  They also pay for the unvaccinated who are treated in hospital, which is far more expensive than getting vaccinated.

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, AndyFoxy said:

Show me the data on that one thanks.

 

5 hours ago, ThLT said:

Also waiting for numbers for your claim.

 

The Lancet study I posted shows that: 25% of vaccinated got infected, in contrast to 38% of unvaccinated.

I'm operating under the assumption that uninfected people do not spread the infection, and the vaccinated are far less likely to get infected.

 

"During 2021, averaged weekly, age-standardized case IRRs among unvaccinated persons compared with fully vaccinated persons decreased from 13.9 pre-Delta to 8.7 as Delta emerged, and to 5.1 during the period of Delta predominance. During October–November, unvaccinated persons had 13.9 and 53.2 times the risks for infection and COVID-19–associated death, respectively, compared with fully vaccinated persons who received booster doses, and 4.0 and 12.7 times the risks compared with fully vaccinated persons without booster doses."  https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e2.htm?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220131&instance_id=51759&nl=the-morning&regi_id=135884956&segment_id=81212&te=1&user_id=7ef4c302f3d7b72eda453d22c70af53e

 

The CDC study is based on much more data and is more current.  Plus, as I've explained repeatedly, the Lancet study does show that vaccination significantly reduces the risk of infection (you know, 38 is bigger than 25, etc.)

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, khaowong1 said:

I'm sorry, but if your vaccinated, doesn't that protect you from those who are un-vaccinated.  So what are you worrying about?  Asking for a friend. 

Seriously?  You don't know?

 

Vaccines don't provide 100% protection.

The unvaccinated provide a breeding ground for new variants.

Covid restrictions will remain in place for everyone until the disease is brought under control.

 

Etc.

[heybruce]

2 hours ago, Sunnny said:

I was 100% pro vaccine before. Now, when the things have changed, and the vaccine’s usefulness seriously diminished,  I think people should be given more choice on the matter.

No, the vaccines usefulness is not seriously diminished.  You are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or killed by Covid 19 if you are unvaccinated.

[heybruce]

16 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the reasons as to why some people would rather not take the shots ?

Many seem to feel that a vaccine offering less than 100% protection is not worth considering. 

[Stargeezr]

I thought that COVID 19 was the big reset virus, but it has only killed off a bit over 5.7 million people.

 Maybe Ebola, would have been a bit more effective. Typhoid Mary only infected just over 50 people.

Idi Amin affected a lot more. Today how ever we have the great unvaccinated, the COVID idiots and morons.

  I just wonder how many other losers will show up in the future. It would be so much nicer if people would have 

treated the COVID vaccine, like they did with the Small Pox vaccine. I do not remember that many people

objecting to have a TB shot, Typhoid shot, Small Pox shot, Polio shot, or a few others in the past.

It seems to be way different today, with all the losers and their lame excuses for not getting the COVID vaccine.

  Am I wrong?

[AndyFoxy]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

No, the vaccines usefulness is not seriously diminished.  You are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or killed by Covid 19 if you are unvaccinated.

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

[pomchop]

32 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

are you seriously trying to suggest that more vaccinations lead to more deaths?  If anti vaxxers woud stop trying to pick and choose and interpret and promote data that they claim supports their anti vax idiocy and just go get the damn shots untold lives and hospitalizations and disruptions to economies worldwide would/could have been greatly diminished.....once and for all just go get the damn shots and be a part of the solution and not the problem,,,if your ego is so frail that you cannot admit you are and continue to be wrong just keep it a secret that you did the smart thing and got vaccinated.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I had Measles when I was a kid ...... itchy for a week then gone.

Yes, everyone got it and it seemed just a natural part of growing up..... about the same year or two you got chicken pox and mumps! Now it is talked of as if deadly.....

Edited February 4, 2022 by jacko45k

[cdemundo]

23 hours ago, RandiRona said:

No , I was merely suggesting that a private business has right to deny service in certain scenarios but they cant discriminate based on health and* life style choices people make, like they cant deny service to an Arab wrapped in drape or an alphabet requesting a cake.

 

This is where the problem is, if I have told you that for all variants of flu , you have to take same shot , every six months, would you have taken it? Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months? At some point of time you have to start thinking why and what? Nothing different from when you move from one doctor to another when you think first one doesn't have your best interest in mind, both are qualified though. I know it's very political,  what I am saying is let's not vilify people choices. People are right to choose for themselves , even if those choices are wrong from your's perspective.

"This is where the problem is, if I have told you that for all variants of flu , you have to take same shot , every six months, would you have taken it? Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months? At some point of time you have to start thinking why and what?"

 

Where I live there has been one booster and talk of a possible second booster.

"Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months?"

This has not really happened anywhere has it?

 

[FarFlungFalang]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

Prior infection provided greater protection against double vaccination without a booster shot against the Delta variant, which was a reversal from earlier variants of the virus. 

This is gibberish.Maybe try reading it then try rewording it.As can be seen in the study I posted getting vaxxed after an infection provides little to no extra benefit.If they are going to restrict people for not being vaxxed yet are better protected from a previous infection then they should do the same for vaxxed with no previous infection because they are at greater risk of becoming infected and ending up in hospital and clogging up the health care system etc.The study clearly shows this. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by FarFlungFalang

[jacko45k]

12 minutes ago, cdemundo said:

Where I live there has been one booster and talk of a possible second booster.

"Then why for every different variant of Covid, alpha, beta delta, omicron, there is same shot ...every six months?"

This has not really happened anywhere has it?

 

That is because the vaccination is designed to handle mutations too, particularly the MRNA type. There is some comment that the omicron has many mutations and as such there will be higher levels of escape, but Pfizer are testing an omicron specific vaccine now... these things take time and omicron has only been with us about 3 months,

[AndyFoxy]

47 minutes ago, pomchop said:

are you seriously trying to suggest that more vaccinations lead to more deaths?  If anti vaxxers woud stop trying to pick and choose and interpret and promote data that they claim supports their anti vax idiocy and just go get the damn shots untold lives and hospitalizations and disruptions to economies worldwide would/could have been greatly diminished.....once and for all just go get the damn shots and be a part of the solution and not the problem,,,if your ego is so frail that you cannot admit you are and continue to be wrong just keep it a secret that you did the smart thing and got vaccinated.

Look at the data once you get your head out of the sand. FYI, I’m vaxxed. I’m just against mandated vaccinations.

[AndyFoxy]

4 hours ago, heybruce said:

No, the vaccines usefulness is not seriously diminished.  You are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or killed by Covid 19 if you are unvaccinated.

Tell that to the dying vaxxed with Covid.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, AndyFoxy said:

Can you explain the case of Israel please? One of the most vaccinated countries on Earth yet they are having more COVID deaths than ever before.

Look at the data on that, its already been posted a couple of pages ago, fully explained there.