Video: "No justice" for Thai motorcycle delivery guy after collision with American driving golf buggy in luxury housing estate

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Morakot said:

I don't think that's how traffic regulations are interpreted in this country.

 

From what I have seen here in attributing blame in collisions like this, staying inside the lane tends to get you off.

 

 

Also your pronouncement is totally ignoring the speed the moped was traveling, was well as the fact that the moped was overtaking at a zebra crossing.

 

In what jurisdiction are you a 'qualified driving instructor'?

 

 

There is no way that you can determine that the motorcycle as speeding from that video. A slower frame rate will make the speed appear greater. He could easily have been doing 20 Kph.

[BostonRob2]

I'd say they both are at fault to some degree of recklessness. But it is the American who needs to pay as he caused the injury and loss of earnings and major damage. 

[Eric Loh]

What if the golf buggy was driven by a Chinese. I am positively sure that the narratives by some will dramatically change. 

[ozimoron]

16 minutes ago, flyingfox1 said:

ok to overtake on a zebra crossing ? 

i’m sure the buggy wouldn’t of expected anyone to be on top of him there. and to close at that .. 

That was an error but was it the main contributing factor to the accident? I would say no.  There might be an issue of proportionality affecting compensation but overtaking on a zebra crossing did not cause the accident. The buggy turned into the motorcycle.

[DBath]

As someone with over 40 years of experience and more than 200k miles riding motorcycles, I would never pass someone at an intersection. Perhaps justice already has been done here, especially considering all of the occurrences of accidents where foreigners have been blamed when some idiot Thai person was clearly the person at fault and who should have been cited, but wasn’t. 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, chang1 said:

So you teach riders that cars will give way to them when in front of them? How many have died assuming this?

I have a bike licence and would never expect a car to give way to me so I could overtake, that would be suicidal. 

This happened on private roads. He was overtaking at speed way too close to a slow moving vehicle. 

The private road is irrelevant. The buggy did not indicate and appeared to have no way to know that the motorcycle as behind him. He was likely half deaf or worse because likely quite elderly. It was obvious from the video that the motorcycle was already in the process of overtaking when the buggy driver turned.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ozimoron

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, actonion said:

Mirror, Signal, Manouvre, before making your move, Did the American have Mirrors Signals  ? on a Golf buggy i doubt it, American attempted to make a turn without looking, a  slower speed  by the motorbike may have avoided the collosion,  My  bet is American is in the wrong, for not looking over his shoulder

Depends on whether he has direction indicators on the buggy and if he was using them to signal right. If not, did he indicate by sticking his arm out like you had to in the old days? I always check my right hand mirror before turning right because many times I've been overtaken even though I've been signalling to turn. There's a distinct lack of common sense on the roads here, especially from motorbike riders. It's why motorbike fatalities are so high.

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, jesimps said:

Depends on whether he has direction indicators on the buggy and if he was using them to signal right. If not, did he indicate by sticking his arm out like you had to in the old days? I always check my right hand mirror before turning right because many times I've been overtaken even though I've been signalling to turn. There's a distinct lack of common sense on the roads here, especially from motorbike riders. It's why motorbike fatalities are so high.

The driver was on the left and had a passenger to his right. He could not have put his arm out to signal a turn.

[cdnhawk]

Feel bad for the kid but after watching the video his compensation from the buggy driver should be a big fat ZERO.

[KhaoYai]

Seems to be faults on both sides.  The bike should not have been overtaking on a crossing but - was he even aware the buggy was turning?  I don't think they have indicators - right?  If it does have indictators, were they being used? Should the buggy have been on a public road?

 

Things may wll be different in Thailand but in other countries on the basis that the buggy was legal, they would both be held to blame as the bike should not have been overtaking but the buggy driver should also not have made the turn - if he'd checked his mirrors.

[Orinoco]

Typical every day Thai guy on a motor bike.

i don't care about him. tough luck.

And if the roles were reversed

or it was two Thai guys.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes we all know that answer.

TIT.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Orinoco

[Sig]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I see no indicators or rear view mirrors and the buggy is turning on a pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver has to give way to vehicles behind him before turning. The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver is civilly liable by driving in a dangerous manner. He turned into the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction.

 

disclaimer: I'm a qualified driving instructor. Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west.

You don't see indicators or rear view mirrors... so what? In that grainy bit of video, does that surprise you? It appears that it has headlights. I would assume it has indicators if it has headlights, but possibly not. Rear view mirrors could easily be there and not discernible in the video. Just how does he give way to vehicles behind him when he is driving on a single lane road??? That makes ZERO sense to me, but I'm willing to learn. And if I'm not mistaken, you are not allowed to overtake crossing a solid white line as the motorcycle driver was doing as he hit the buggy. The police should also have easily been able to calculate, with pretty good accuracy, the speed of the motorcyclist, which sure looked to me like he was driving too fast. Of course there could be some shoddy police work here, as you appear to be implying, but from this bit of video and without access to the investigative material from the police, I don't think you are in a position to pass judgment like this. Being a qualified driving instructor qualifies you to instruct people in driving vehicles, not presiding over and passing judgment on a case in law with scant evidence available to you.

[digger70]

One Question about the Law ,Who's in the Wrong?

 

Golf carts are not allowed to be operated on public roads in Thailand,

If so, than the Buggy is Wrong,Right.

[Sig]

23 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

The driver was on the left and had a passenger to his right. He could not have put his arm out to signal a turn.

You claim to be a qualified driving instructor and you say this!???? Are you serious? I have no idea what country you are qualified to instruct in, but in my home country, one may signal a left or right turn with the same arm without needing to stick his arm out the side of the vehicle to which he is turning! Not sure if I should laugh or just shake my head and roll my eyes....

[cardinalblue]

In general, moto drivers don’t abide by the rules of the road….

 

if the driver in general is turning right than pass on left if you need to pass at all unless someone is speeding…

 

For moto driver to be charged with negligence, authority is saying he was doing something wrong 

 

the problem I have with the father is him making the assumption of breadwinner no longer providing so someone has to pay….

 

it’s not about breadwinners it’s about who is at fault…it shouldn’t matter if one is rich or poor….follow the rules of the road….it’s called spatial awareness when driving and moti don’t give a <deleted>….

 

my guess is moto driver was speeding given the conditions leading the incident - it’s called driving blind - no difference than tail gating as the driver ahead of you can break or turn for whatever reason and you must be anticipate/prepared for those conditions….safe distance driving

Edited February 10, 2022 by cardinalblue

[Stupooey]

Like most 'accidents' there is blame on both sides. The motorbike driver was probably travelling too fast, but speed normally lessens the chance of a collision, it just increases the severity of the outcome. Looking at it from the point of view of the bike rider, he would have seen the buggy slowing in front of him, presumably without indicating, and maybe assumed he was stopping, so felt it prurient to overtake. No doubt the fact that the buggy was LHD (why???) contributed, as I suspect the driver didn't check if there was a vehicle to his right. Both to blame, i would apportion 60-40 against the buggy driver.

[Sig]

1 minute ago, digger70 said:

One Question about the Law ,Who's in the Wrong?

 

Golf carts are not allowed to be operated on public roads in Thailand,

If so, than the Buggy is Wrong,Right.

If that were the law, then you'd certainly be correct as far as I can tell. I would think that the roads inside this "luxury housing estate" would be the same as any other road, but who knows... maybe not? Maybe inside private compounds like this, they can allow golf carts, assuming it would otherwise be illegal. One would think the police would know the law on Golf carts and would handle it likewise, but again... who knows....

[digger70]

2 minutes ago, Sig said:

If that were the law, then you'd certainly be correct as far as I can tell. I would think that the roads inside this "luxury housing estate" would be the same as any other road, but who knows... maybe not? Maybe inside private compounds like this, they can allow golf carts, assuming it would otherwise be illegal. One would think the police would know the law on Golf carts and would handle it likewise, but again... who knows....

You would think that the police Know the Law , just look at at this , 

 Golf carts are not allowed to be operated on public roads in Thailand, but are accepted within the Nichada Community. Nichada rules, as detailed in the March 2018 Nichada Thani Newsletter, clearly state that you must “Have a valid driving license on your person if you are the operator of a vehicle”.

[ChaiyaTH]

Motorbike is speeding X2-3 limit and before a zebra crossing. He would not been injured that bad if driving normal speed. 

 

That aside, the standard bike insurance easily covered his hospital treatment, you can see by the ugly scars on his arms it was a public one.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ChaiyaTH

[RocketDog]

5 hours ago, stigar said:

In surin some years ago a foreigner rented a car from an foreign restaurant who told that he have cars for rent.Well,the foreigner who rented the car had an accident.2 drunk thais on a bike hit the front.The police charged the foreigner 200.000 bath for the families.He didnt have that so rigth to jail.

The restaurant who rent out the car didnt have licence for that.He wasnt charged anything.

They will blame the foreigner whatever happend.

The OP refutes your last statement.

No?

[tubby johnson]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I see no indicators or rear view mirrors and the buggy is turning on a pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver has to give way to vehicles behind him before turning. The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver is civilly liable by driving in a dangerous manner. He turned into the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction.

 

disclaimer: I'm a qualified driving instructor. Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west.

Wrong: Foreigners are not allowed to pose as driving  instructors in Thailand.

 

"The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. ........ the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction."

--- From such a short clip, it is impossible to judge. Please don't jump to conclusions based on a snapshot.

 

Motorcycle overtaking at a pedestrian crossing? Not allowed

 

Motorcycle speeding inside a housing estate? Also not allowed

 

"Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west." --- Don't make assumptions or pontificate on topics you know nothing about.

 

[Sig]

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Like most 'accidents' there is blame on both sides. The motorbike driver was probably travelling too fast, but speed normally lessens the chance of a collision, it just increases the severity of the outcome. Looking at it from the point of view of the bike rider, he would have seen the buggy slowing in front of him, presumably without indicating, and maybe assumed he was stopping, so felt it prurient to overtake. No doubt the fact that the buggy was LHD (why???) contributed, as I suspect the driver didn't check if there was a vehicle to his right. Both to blame, i would apportion 60-40 against the buggy driver.

I must say, I've never heard that one before! You say that driving at a higher speed normally lessens the chance of a collision? Did you actually type what you meant there? If so, let's put that to the test. You drive down Sukhumvit at something like 120kph and I'll follow at 40kph and we'll see how long it is before I come across your wreckage ????
Then you got me again by somehow inserting (no pun intended) sex into the equation! "...it felt prurient to overtake"!? wow... never knew people could get turned on by the idea of overtaking!
You lost me on the "LHD" thing. Not the faintest clue what that could mean. The only exposure I've ever had to that acronym is Landing Helicopter Dock - A Naval vessel. I'm curious about why the driver would be expected to check if there is a vehicle to his right, being on a single lane road? You "presumed" the buggy driver didn't indicate his turn and you "suspect" the driver didn't check to his right. Well... I understand that a LOT needs to be assumed/presumed to make a judgment from the scant evidence provided by the video, but why the need to make that judgement when you cannot make a proper judgement? The police can do much more investigation and come to a much more clear verdict. And since they are actually siding with the foreigner (shocking, I know!), I would guess that they took into account many factors in order to come to the conclusion that they did. But who knows.... stranger things have happened.
 

[soalbundy]

I think it looks like 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other situation, they should both be locked up and castrated.

[Sig]

14 minutes ago, digger70 said:

You would think that the police Know the Law , just look at at this , 

 Golf carts are not allowed to be operated on public roads in Thailand, but are accepted within the Nichada Community. Nichada rules, as detailed in the March 2018 Nichada Thani Newsletter, clearly state that you must “Have a valid driving license on your person if you are the operator of a vehicle”.

Well, it sounds like it is something like I expected it might be, from what you say here. I would suspect that roads inside a "housing estate/community" are not considered public and there can be some exceptions, such as golf carts being allowed to operated on them.
I'm not sure what you intended by quoting from that community newsletter. It said that you must have a valid driving license on your person if you are the operator of a vehicle... ok. I would expect as much, wouldn't you? I'm not sure what you are applying that quote toward. Perhaps you meant that this quote was explicitly directed to people operating golf carts on the roads in the community?

[ozimoron]

12 minutes ago, tubby johnson said:

Wrong: Foreigners are not allowed to pose as driving  instructors in Thailand.

 

"The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. ........ the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction."

--- From such a short clip, it is impossible to judge. Please don't jump to conclusions based on a snapshot.

 

Motorcycle overtaking at a pedestrian crossing? Not allowed

 

Motorcycle speeding inside a housing estate? Also not allowed

 

"Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west." --- Don't make assumptions or pontificate on topics you know nothing about.

 

Nobody is posing as a driving instructor in Thailand. And I'm not pontificating. I know for a fact that the road rules are similar in Thailand as most of their laws are.

Edited February 10, 2022 by ozimoron

[nickmondo]

it was the kids fault totally!

when does a thai driver or rider EVER take notice of someone in front turning left or right?

They overtake, or undertake regardless.

Do the kid for defamation also

[newyorkcity1]

American guy needs too do the right ✅ thing and pay up

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

Because people on this forum immediately and automatically side with a foreigner for almost everything, I have even seen them do it for murder ("two sides to every story", "she must have done something to provoke him", "she was probably cheating on him or stealing" etc)

 

Unfortunately you are right, there are a number of members on here that will always jump to the defence of a foreigner, without question, as you will see by the emojis you receive, and that I will receive for supporting your view.

 

I remember many posters defending the odious American, Wesley Barnes, who was arrested after launching a one man online vendetta against a hotel, simply because they wouldn't allow him to drink his bottle of 7-11 Gin in their restaurant; transpires that he was a serial felon Stateside, with drugs/drink driving and firearms offences to his name …. no matter he was defended resolutely on here.

[snowgard]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

disclaimer: I'm a qualified driving instructor. Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west.

1. This is in a luxury housing estate, not on a public road. In a housing estate, you normally don't drive much faster than walking speed. You have to be able to brake at any time, because there are certainly children playing and simply running out into the street.

2. As a vehicle driver, you have to drive with foresight. If a vehicle drives in front of me without indicators / brake lights, I have to expect that it will brake or turn at any time.

3. If you see a zebra crossing, slow down, drive carefully and do not overtake.
 

4. How many accidents have already happened due to your completely wrong driver training?

There is nothing worse than idiots driving vehicles pretending they are the best drivers while speeding through residential areas.

[Gandtee]

1 hour ago, roo860 said:

"and he himself might well face prostitution"

 

 

Brilliant, funniest quote I've seen all week!

????????????????

Then he will be well and truly f*****d????