Video: "No justice" for Thai motorcycle delivery guy after collision with American driving golf buggy in luxury housing estate

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

Basically 2 people at fault here. Neither is without blame. Both should just take care of their own problem. 

The most sensible comment in this entire thread.

[josephbloggs]

4 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

These moo baans, they have a lot of four lane roads? I don't believe he was changing lanes because there was only the one.

So if you are on a single lane road in a moo ban and turn in front of someone that is ok because you are not changing lanes?  Please explain.

[josephbloggs]

3 hours ago, 2009 said:

Motorcycle tried to overtake while the farang was making a turn.

 

Clearly his own fault. The police got it right.

 

It would only be a farang's fault if he didn't signal่.

And you know he signalled?  Where did you see this?

[josephbloggs]

48 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Check out Section 46 of the Land Traffic Act, 2522 (1979) (400-1000B)

It is an offence to overtake another vehicle within 30M of a pedestrian Crossing.

The video shows the bike rider overtake the golf buggy AT the pedestrian crossing so the bike rider has broken the law as it is written

And moving lanes and turning in to someone without looking is fine, obviously.

[malthebluff]

I've ridden bikes for the last 50 years and to me the bike was at fault way to fast and over taking on what looks like a zebra crossing. Buggy was hit before trying to turn and in its own lane. Bike rider lucky he didnt kill anyone or himself 

[jimmybcool]

I do not know Thai specific traffic law.  I do know self preservation law having driven bikes in the USA for years.  That kid is lucky to be alive.  And even if the cart driver didn't signal or anything clearly the speed of the kid on the bike is the sole cause of an accident. 

 

Logic says they should be grateful if the kid recovers.  But, having been involved as a passenger in a car that had a collision with a moto inn Thailand years ago I understand where the family is coming from. 

 

My friend was on the motorway driving back to Pattaya.  Woman on a cycle enters the motorway (no entrance just you know) and immediately starts crossing all the lanes.  My friend is standing on the brakes, has gone as far right as he can without going into the ditch and we almost made it but she kept coming over and bounced off his car.  damage to the side mirror, her bike and her.

 

Clearly her fault and she didn't belong on a motorway anyway.  Long story short, after she is cleaned up at hospital and we've cooled our jets waiting at the cop shop she shows up and the judge, policeman, decides fault and who pays. 

 

He says it is her fault.  But, my friend has money so he can pay her hospital and 20,000 baht money she will lose not working for a month.  And my friend gets to pay to fix his car.  Total <deleted>.  But that is how Thailand resolves some of this stuff.

 

[cncltd1973]

11 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I see no indicators or rear view mirrors and the buggy is turning on a pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver has to give way to vehicles behind him before turning. The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver is civilly liable by driving in a dangerous manner. He turned into the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction.

 

disclaimer: I'm a qualified driving instructor. Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west.

the motorcycle was clearly overtaking at a crosswalk and more than likely speeding, adding up to reckless endangerment. and it's the responsibility of the vehicle behind not to crash into the vehicle in front, not to mention the buggy was still in his lane. I've had motorcycles in the US since I was 10 (39 years ago) and ride dozens of times in Indonesia, and I can say I wouldn't be alive today if I rode like that. the Thai gov't is at fault for not properly educating drivers, Thais think scooters are motorized bicycles and don't realize how deadly they are to themselves and pedestrians.

[richard_smith237]

If I’m riding my motorcycle in a moo-ban don’t do so quickly.

 

If I approach a slower car, I slow behind it because in a moo-baan a car can turn at any point into their drive way, to park on the opposite side of the road or to turn into another moo-baan soi etc. 

 

If I want to pass the car in front, I do not continue with the same speed as approaching. I slow down to the speed of the car, check everything is clear, then pass. 

 

--------

 

The driver of the golf buggy initiated the accident as he was making a manoeuvre off the driving line without caution. 

However, the motorcyclist was also fault because he attempted to pass the vehicle in front at speed, without caution.

 

The speed of the motorcyclist appears to be the primary cause of the accident - this could have been a dog or a child running out into the ‘residential’ street. the motorcyclist never gave himself a chance to stop for anything. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

44 minutes ago, cncltd1973 said:

the motorcycle was clearly overtaking at a crosswalk and more than likely speeding, adding up to reckless endangerment. and it's the responsibility of the vehicle behind not to crash into the vehicle in front, not to mention the buggy was still in his lane. I've had motorcycles in the US since I was 10 (39 years ago) and ride dozens of times in Indonesia, and I can say I wouldn't be alive today if I rode like that. the Thai gov't is at fault for not properly educating drivers, Thais think scooters are motorized bicycles and don't realize how deadly they are to themselves and pedestrians.

Agreed....  what if it was the golf buggy stopping for a pedestrian...  the motorcyclist was speeding and couldn’t stop. In that scenario he would (could) have taken out the pedestrian.... hmmm.. where have we seen that recently ??? 

[OneMoreFarang]

3 hours ago, rebo said:

Be fair, please! Many are no idiots - having an IQ not exceeding 90 doesn't make you generally an idiot.
They are simply uneducated. And this is simply and only a defect Thai governance and its system are responsible for.

Is it really necessary to be educated to realize that if you don't see what is in front you that assuming there is nothing is a bad idea? I think a little intelligence and years of experience as a human being (long before they start riding a bike) are enough to know there could be danger up front.

[Guest Isaanlife]

13 hours ago, ozimoron said:

I see no indicators or rear view mirrors and the buggy is turning on a pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver has to give way to vehicles behind him before turning. The moto rider was in a position to see that there was nobody on or near the pedestrian crossing. The buggy driver is civilly liable by driving in a dangerous manner. He turned into the moto rider who was traveling in a constant direction.

 

disclaimer: I'm a qualified driving instructor. Thai road laws are very similar to those in the west.

No, no and no. Your statement is completely wrong.

 

Your not qualified in Thailand that is for darn sure.

 

What Moo Ban allows passing anywhere?

 

None.

[BE88]

9 hours ago, johnc925 said:

Agreed but I suspect the attorney suggested they don't contact them as it may look as an admission of guilt

Lawyers go out of their way to work by advising the client to provoke, so if you have lived in Thailand for a few years you should know that courtesy is very high in society so not caring about how the person you involved in the accident is doing is a lack of respect and therefore of offense.

Being a little generous as in this case towards this poor unfortunate who has lost his only substance and that you are considered a rich person because you play golf should make you think.

That's why there is merit in this majority Thai Buddhist society and taking care of people less fortunate than you.

But here the reflection was just how much does it cost me?

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by BE88

[Tropposurfer]

Hmm interesting?

At the risk of being lumped into the Aseannow desktop lawyers group lol ???????? I'll comment.

 

Does anyone here know the exact road laws in this case? Where I come from (and every country I've driven in too) you don't pass on the right (or left depending on which side of the road you drive) when a vehicle is in the process of turning right - ever! 

Also it seems the bike was moving at quite a clip, appears the bike was maybe travelling over the internal complex speed limit?

Thirdly he overtook a vehicle (is a golf cart considered a motor vehicle inside a private road-ed complex?) on a pedestrian crossing (is it still a breach of the traffic act of Thailand when on a private road to overtake and pass (on either side) at a pedestrian crossing?

 

Seems to me from my understanding of the road laws that the bike was in breach of a number of road laws. I wonder if the cart had no indicators was the driver at fault for not hand signalling (which in my home nation is required if for some reason the indicators fail while in transit). He also was riding within a few inches of the carts side as he passed (made no attempt to move across to the right more to provide room to pass.

The Yank not bothering to help is, by western standards, 'normal' insofar as I can see he would have considered the accident the fault of the bike not his driving of the cart. 

[EricTh]

14 hours ago, MuuDaeng said:

Over the years I've been in two accidents, first one driving a motorbike, another driving a car. Both times a motorbike tried to overtake right side when I was turning right. Over the years, I have had two accidents, the first on a motorcycle and the second on a car.  On both occasions, the motorcycle tried to pass from the right as I turned right.

It is completely legal to pass from the right as they have the right of way and going straight.

 

Most Thai people don't have a 'what if the front driver turned suddenly' scenario.

 

Knowing the poor driving habits of most people, I usually won't overtake unless I am pretty sure the front won't suddenly make a right turn.

 

 

[tonray]

4 minutes ago, EricTh said:

t is completely legal to pass from the right as they have the right of way and going straight

In a crosswalk ?

[EricTh]

8 minutes ago, tonray said:

In a crosswalk ?

 

I've said many times in Thaivisa, the rules in most countries in Asia are not the same as western countries.

 

Many accidents happen due to misunderstanding of traffic rules between foreigners and Thai.

 

Drivers do not have to stop at crosswalk unless there is a red traffic light at crosswalk. Pedestrians have to be careful and pass only if there are no incoming cars.

Edited February 10, 2022 by EricTh

[Andre0720]

Seems like the motorbike delivery drivers are hired on the basis that they have a death wish.

So there should be no surprise that many of these wishes come true...

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, EricTh said:

 

I've said many times in Thaivisa, the rules in most countries in Asia are not the same as western countries.

 

Many accidents happen due to misunderstanding of traffic rules between foreigners and Thai.

 

Drivers do not have to stop at crosswalk unless there is a red traffic light at crosswalk. Pedestrians have to be careful and pass only if there are no incoming cars.

You should read Section 46 of the Thai Road Traffic Act where it clearly states that you are not allowed to overtake another vehicle within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossing and that is exactly what this bike rider did. Bike rider guilty of breaching this rule. The golf buggy was in the right hand lane, he was not changing lanes.

[Russell17au]

9 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

And moving lanes and turning in to someone without looking is fine, obviously.

Get your eyes tested and have another look at the video and you will see that the golf buggy was not changing lanes at all. He was going to do a right hand turn. He was not turning into someone as you claim, that someone had broken the law by trying to pass on a pedestrian crossing.

[EricTh]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

You should read Section 46 of the Thai Road Traffic Act where it clearly states that you are not allowed to overtake another vehicle within 30 metres of a pedestrian crossing and that is exactly what this bike rider did. Bike rider guilty of breaching this rule. The golf buggy was in the right hand lane, he was not changing lanes.

 

Sorry, I didn't know about this.

 

 

 

 

 

[farangroby]

Biker was going fast and overtaking on the crosswalk, mah ...

[NoshowJones]

On 2/10/2022 at 10:15 AM, ezzra said:

Freaks of nature, it seems that really no one to blame here, the buggy was turning and the moto was trying to overtake on the right, you can say that the moto rider didn't observe the intention of the vehicle ahead and slow down or avoid the accident all together but this is splitting hairs now, and as moto or golf buggy don't carry insurance the moto rider left holding the bag...

They don't carry insurance?? So what were they doing on the road. Was it a public road? Is the golf buggy not supposed to be for use on the golf course? Was the golf buggy registered for use on public roads? If not, then the book should be thrown at it's driver.

I have never been in a mooban, so not sure if they are public roads or not.

Edited February 11, 2022 by possum1931

[thailand49]

11 hours ago, Neeranam said:

As I have lived here most my life, actually I am Thai, I get tired of hearing untruths like it's the foreigner that always gets fleeced, simply this is not what happens, like I said it's the one with least influence. I thought you might like to hear that this happens among Thai people too. Sorry, if you took  that the wrong way, was just trying to be helpful 

 

I didn't take it the wrong way at all to me at least?  A few years back a Thai MP, interviewed by the Bangkok Post "  The more patriotic the more stupid "  that is a generalization of course.

 

Nice to have your prospective, I'm Asian live with Thais and not some gated community.  I've been told Thais that I'm more Thai than a Thai. When you read the comments on Asean no matter what thread it is especially when it comes Thai people and their culture majority of it in general is negative foreigners don't wake up like me and say to ourselves " OK today I'm going to bash the hell out of the Thais " like I said I wish there were more GOOD STORIES but the bad ones don't mean Thai people are bad just like when it comes to China, I dislike the Chinese leaders not the people!

 

Years ago I was told Pattaya and Bangkok how people live and think isn't a good sample of how Thais and I believe that to be true since I've visited many parts of Thailand and live a few months a year up at my wife farm and can attest not all Thais think this way but majority of what you read here are from their experience in these two locations no matter where they might settle later?

 

I can only speak for myself but majority of the cases of accidents I've witness and I've stood up for Thais and foreigners have been cases at least here in Pattaya have been cases where they felt the foreigners should pay they even got foreigners believing they should paid but the reality as I noted years ago for a friend down at the Na Jomtien police station to the officer, the oath you took was to enforce the law, the drivers handbook and not some made up deal if you pay the Thai victim you would feel better about yourself. Of course being close to 100 percent Thai, older with a great deal of wisdom in my broken Thai told the officer next time you want my friend to come down to the station as to whether he should pay the other party who clearly admitted she cause the accident

200,000 baht we will be coming down with a lawyer????.

 

I get tired of it too, having a Thai son and raising him I had to reinvent myself because I didn't want him to think I hated Thais this is my home now for 15 plus years I will die here most likely but like I told my wife I will never be Thai don't want to I will take what is good from this country and mix it in with the good as to how I was brought up. There are many things wrong with my country and there are many good things Thailand is no different this topic happens to be one of the bad ones just like the Thai court ruling recently that dual pricing is o.k. justification because we are better off sadly there is a long list that makes us feel the way we do and it comes out in our comments. 

 

Have a good day, nice to converse with a Thai nothing personal help or not helping I will express my opinion.

 

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, billsmart said:

The video, to me, shows it is clearly the buggy-driver's fault. He was "changing lanes" (drifting right), perhaps as preparation to make a right-hand turn. He hit the motorcycle with the front of his buggy. The motorcycle did not appear to run into him.

Why the police have seen this otherwise, especially after seeing the video, could only be caused by one thing... ????

Yes, the buggy driver was at fault, but I would like to know approximately what speed the MB was doing.

I am keeping in mind it is in a mooban.

Is a mooban the same as a gated community? Sorry for my ignorance here.

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, sambum said:

Serious question - does the fact that the accident happened on a private estate and not a public road have any bearing on the issue?

So it was on a private estate? Does that mean a private road? Crosswalk, intersection??

[Russell17au]

11 hours ago, josephbloggs said:

So if you are on a single lane road in a moo ban and turn in front of someone that is ok because you are not changing lanes?  Please explain.

It is quite easy to see that you do not abide by the road laws, that is if you can drive. It is and always has been an offence to overtake a turning vehicle whether that vehicle is turning left or right.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Russell17au

[Neeranam]

49 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

I can only speak for myself but majority of the cases of accidents I've witness and I've stood up for Thais and foreigners have been cases at least here in Pattaya have been cases where they felt the foreigners should pay they even got foreigners believing they should paid but the reality as I noted years ago for a friend down at the Na Jomtien police station to the officer, the oath you took was to enforce the law, the drivers handbook and not some made up deal if you pay the Thai victim you would feel better about yourself. Of course being close to 100 percent Thai, older with a great deal of wisdom in my broken Thai told the officer next time you want my friend to come down to the station as to whether he should pay the other party who clearly admitted she cause the accident

The main point I was making is that many foreigners have no interest in integrating into Thai society and therefore criticize it at every chance they can, to somehow elevate their feeling of less-worth. They get reassurance that their bashing is justified by hanging out with fellow bashers in expat bars, or internet forums. 

Due to lack of integration and illiteracy, mixed in with a sometimes Colonial attitude, they will never understand the cultural nuance of Thai society. 

Yes, the foreigner is often blamed, mainly as for starters they can't converse in the language and puts them on the same level of the hierarchical social ladder as a Roi Et farmer. Interesting,  years ago, I was driving through the rice fields of Mahasarakham when I was in a head on collision with a pick up truck, driven by a farmer. He was on the wrong side of the road, so absolutely no question as to whose fault it was. I even heard them the policeman say to the yokel 'not to worry, as the farang would pay'. I phoned my boss at the university, whose daughter was married to the head policeman in Khon Kaen. When he came on the scene, the blame was immediately shifted to the hillbilly. There is a saying in Thai "the person with no influence is always in the wrong". At the police station, the guy was ordered to pay me 1 months salary, my hospital bills and repair my car. My now friend explained how it is done in Thailand - the chief of the station's son was entering the university the next year. There is a Thai word for this, 'boon koon'. Then, there was an issue with the insurance as they wouldn't give me the cash to pay for a rental for 3 months. Again, to the 'friend' but he had just left the force to become a senator. I was asked to wait a couple of months until he was back from Bkk, but then the Thaksin government was ousted so he became out of  a job and had to flee to Laos. Having 'friends' here  is often a temporary benefit, so better to have many in different factions. on to the General, lol. It is often considered a game, this hierarchical 'nonsense', and like another cultural difference, a foreigner to get the better of a Thai is something people laugh about and a big loss of face. We will fight to get the better of a foreigner! 

Also, there are many differences between Thai personal values and Western ones. Neither are better, just well 'cultural'. Just as there are advantages and disadvantages to indirect and direct communication, there are differences in which values are prioritized. For example, in the West, especially the US, the value of 'personal freedom' is on top of the list, hence they don't want to wear masks, which benefits the whole of society. This is frowned upon by Thais, who prioritize the value of 'community'. When one stives to be aware of the differences and accept neither is better, one can live more harmoniously. Whatever is 'the law' doesn't always align with these cultural beliefs, the community determines what is morally correct, so forget copying the highway code to justify your opinion(not you personally).

Edited February 11, 2022 by Neeranam

[NoshowJones]

18 hours ago, dj230 said:

Im surprised people are saying it's the motorcycle riders fault, it was clearly the person driving the golf cart that turned into the motorcycle.

 

Really? What speed was the MB riding at? Would the fact that the rider broke both his arms not indicate that he was riding far too fast.

[Neeranam]

7 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

It is quite easy to see that you do not abide by the road laws, that is if you can drive. It is and always has been an offence to overtake a turning vehicle whether that vehicle is turning left or right.

Be careful, in Khon Kaen it can often be the cause of an accident if you go by the book.

[AustinRacing]

Another point. Protruding tyres may have contributed to mb rider’s misjudging his clearance from the car. Another case point why it is illegal to have protruding tyres on vehicles. But we see that a lot in thailand.