Prince Andrew settles out of court.

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.     The age for (sexual) consent in the UK is 16.  She was not under the age of consent when she was whoring around with him.

For the purpose of English law. The age of consent in cases of prostitution is 18.

The UK met consider the FBI is the relevant authority to investigate due to the internationall trafficking aspects.

Up to this point in time Prince Andrew has nof responded to the FBI request for interview.

[Liverpool Lou]

8 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

25 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

He did not have sex with a minor (in the sense of her being an underaged girl), she was over the age of consent for sex.

Were you in the room?

It wouldn't make any difference whether I was or wasn't.  If he did rape the brass when she was underage, do you not think that she would have mentioned it for the massive extra leverage she'd have on him in the civil suit?   

 

Apart from that, it has been widely reported many times that she was 17 at the time, the age of consent in the UK is 16 as has been pointed out countless times.

[Liverpool Lou]

11 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It's not an opinion, it's a fact.     The age for (sexual) consent in the UK is 16.  She was not under the age of consent when she was whoring around with him.

For the purpose of English law. The age of consent in cases of prostitution is 18.

It wasn't a case of prostitution between her and Prince Andrew, neither was he charged with anything criminal under English, or any other, law!   Haven't you been following the case that is now over?

[cleopatra2]

2 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It wasn't a case of prostitution between her and Prince Andrew, neither was he charged with anything criminal under English, or any other, law!   Haven't you been following the case that is now over?

The payment can be made by a third party. It is not necessary for Andrew to make the payment. 

 

[Sparktrader]

9 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It wouldn't make any difference whether I was or wasn't.  If he did rape the brass when she was underage, do you not think that she would have mentioned it for the massive extra leverage she'd have on him in the civil suit?   

 

Apart from that, it has been widely reported many times that she was 17 at the time, the age of consent in the UK is 16 as has been pointed out countless times.

Didnt the sex happen in the US?

[CharlieH]

I dont believe "rape" has ever been alledged.

 

"The lawsuit alleged that the duke sexually abused Ms Giuffre as a teenager on multiple occasions in London, Manhattan, and the US Virgin Islands in 2001"

[RJRS1301]

Just now, cleopatra2 said:

The payment can be made by a third party. It is not necessary for Andrew to make the payment. 

 

There was never a charge of prostition or any other criminal charge. End of story.  

[Sparktrader]

2001

Prince Andrew is to face a civil case in the US over allegations he sexually assaulted a woman when she was 17.

Virginia Giuffre is suing the prince, claiming he abused her in 2001.

 

Source bbc

 

 

[RJRS1301]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Didnt the sex happen in the US?

and UK, and "Virgin"  Islands (no pun intended)

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, RJRS1301 said:

and UK, and "Virgin"  Islands (no pun intended)

Ex virgin islands

[Lacessit]

IIRC, he acquired the nickname "Randy Andy" very early on.

Genetic inheritance, apparently Phil the Greek had a similar reputation.

IMO an out-of-court settlement after all the denials indicates either she had serious ammunition, or the royal family wanted it gone at any cost. I wonder who will end up paying?

[RJRS1301]

Just now, Lacessit said:

IIRC, he acquired the nickname "Randy Andy" very early on.

Genetic inheritance, apparently Phil the Greek had a similar reputation.

IMO an out-of-court settlement after all the denials indicates either she had serious ammunition, or the royal family wanted it gone at any cost. I wonder who will end up paying?

HMQ. From her personal wealth and take it from his inheritance.

 

[OneMoreFarang]

Andrew is not exactly a nice guy. But I think what is happening to him is bad and unfair in many ways.

 

a) Virginia Giuffre seem to have worked for Epstein for some time, giving him massages and getting paid a lot of money for that. As far as I know it is not illegal to give massages and get paid for that, even with 17.

b) Did she have sex with Epstein? Who knows, as far as I know he was never convicted of having sex with her.

c) Did she come and see Epstein and his friends again and again? Yes. Was she forced to do that: No. Could she just walk away: Yes

d) Now about Virginia Giuffre and Andrew. There is a picture of them together and for me it doesn't seem that she is forced to be there. It's a picture of her and Andrew, not more, not less. What does it prove? It proves that they both were at the same time at the same place. Maybe they saw each other for a minute or maybe they knew each other. Or to say it in another way: Do we all remember all the girls which we met 20 years ago? Personally I definitely don't remember them all.

e) Did Andrew have sex with her? Who knows? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe they were even in a room together and maybe she gave him a massage. Maybe more. But is there any prove that they had sex? I don't think so.

f) Was Andrew ever treated according to "innocent until proven guilty"? No. At least in the news which I see and read it seems everybody is convinced he did it.

g) Does the fact that Andrew knew Epstein and knew that Epstein had often lots of girls around him make him guilty? As far as I see: no, not guilty. Many of us know some criminals and some of us know that they are criminals. Is just the fact that we know a criminal and maybe have a drink with a criminal a crime? As far as I know it's no crime. And I am sure it is no crime to have a friend who is an accused criminal. And/or having a friend who was convicted but served his time (or paid a fee or whatever).

 

All in all I don't know if Andrew is guilty or innocent. What I know is that he was always treated as if he is guilty. And because he is not exactly a likable guy it is difficult to impossible for him to even try to convince others that he is innocent.

 

I think Andrew is a prime example how the press and the MeToo and lots of "he is guilty" people can ruin the life of a person. And all that without any evidence that he did anything illegal. Sad!

 

 

 

 

[spidermike007]

For centuries now, super rich, famous, or important, high profile men like Andrew, have been using very low profile, very discreet agents, or agencies, so that they are able to have some fun and dalliances, without being discovered, and without causing hurt or humiliation to their families, companies or institutions they represent. These agencies insure that. It happens with movie stars, famous athletes, race car drivers, and many others, and their discretion is protected. 

 

It was this man's depravity, arrogance and lack of willpower and foresight that got him into the mess he is in. Same applies to arrogant nimwits like Tiger Woods (too arrogant and too cheap to pay for it, from what I hear from guys who knew him personally) Kobe Bryant (arrogant, reckless and depraved), Epstein (likely killed to protect many), Roger Ayers, Clinton (protected at the highest levels) and many others, who suffer humiliation due to their hubris and lack of wisdom. 

 

Few will weep for this heap of human garbage. 

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

You are right. Sorry I was getting confused between criminal and civil cases. But  my point stands, why when Andrew is mentioned there are boo hisses yet when Mr Gates and Mr Clinton who are on the plane logs to the depraved island of Mr Epstein, well these great men are not to be boo'ed at they are wonderful philanthropists. 

Its our old friend the double standard again I fear.

I guess next time I should decline if a friend invites me to Nana.

I always liked it there. And if my gf asks me I always tell her I only go there to hear music and have a few drinks. ???? 

[OneMoreFarang]

47 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

For the purpose of English law. The age of consent in cases of prostitution is 18.

Was Giuffre a prostitute and die Andrew paid her or did he know if i.e. Epstein paid her to have sex with him?

 

Or maybe Giuffre was just one of those girls who like to be around rich guys and live a luxury life? And maybe she had sex with a prince. I am sure that would give her some rubber points with her friends.

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, RJRS1301 said:

No it is not an opinion, it is a matter of the law, it was filed in civil court.

 

Just because something is filed in civil court doesn't mean it's not a crime.  Civil is more about compensation.  It's always about the money.

 

Success for 2 opportunist; he got his jollies off, she got compensated for it.  Only negative I see, is people think it's news-worthy.  Well, just the news / distraction creating folks do, and  ....  hook line & sinker.

 

Win win wins all around.

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Just because something is filed in civil court doesn't mean it's not a crime.  Civil is more about compensation.  It's always about the money.

 

Success for 2 opportunist; he got his jollies off, she got compensated for it.  Only negative I see, is people think it's news-worthy.  Well, just the news / distraction creating folks do, and  ....  hook line & sinker.

 

Win win wins all around.

It seems she was paid and lived the luxury life at the time when "it" happened, whatever happened.

And then, years later, she went to court and collected more money.

And then, again many years later, the same again.

Personally I have no problem if girls charge for their services. But if they want money again later and then again more money even later that is IMHO a scam.

[cleopatra2]

11 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Was Giuffre a prostitute and die Andrew paid her or did he know if i.e. Epstein paid her to have sex with him?

 

Or maybe Giuffre was just one of those girls who like to be around rich guys and live a luxury life? And maybe she had sex with a prince. I am sure that would give her some rubber points with her friends.

Guiffre is recognised as an Epstein sex trafficking victim.

The claim being Guiffre was under duress to have sex with Andrew.

As for Andrew believing Guiffre was over the age 18 would depend on various jurisdictions strict liability rules. 

However Andrew denied ever meeting the woman so becomes somewhat moot.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Law in US applies if incidents happened there. UK not relevant. Media reports 17yo

You are misinformed.

 

The first ruling by the court in this case was to answer the question ‘Does the court have jurisdiction?’.

 

The US court has jurisdiction.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You are misinformed.

 

The first ruling by the court in this case was to answer the question ‘Does the court have jurisdiction?’.

 

The US court has jurisdiction.

 

 

So I was right. The US law applies.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Or simply being a royal, is enough not to be charged, as many would like to keep their career.  Along with, since a prostitute, they thought finding a jury to convict would be a waste of legal proceedings and why bother.

 

Pretty hard to prove 'forced' when repeated servicing him in different locations.  Photo opts don't show any 'forcing' going on.  What prosecutor would even think about taking & losing that case.

There is no need to proved ‘forced’ she’s a US citizen trafficked across a state line while under the age of 18 for the purposes of paid sex. 
 

She was not legally competent under US law to give her consent to paid sex or to cross a state line for the purposes of paid sex.

[Walker88]

Places that elevate a human being to near deity status simply for being born kind of deserve what they get. It seems the rather ordinary and quite common  'accomplishment' of being born doesn't insure moral superiority, character or integrity.

 

Maybe the lout can be voted out in the next princely election?

 

Oh, sorry. Forget he's a protected, anachronistic parasite.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, KannikaP said:

You mean that she, and the other girls in Eppy's gang, did not know what they were doing for the $300 they were given each time they to**ed him off.

Andy should have just come out and said YES, I sha**ed a 17 year old hooker when I was 40, and am proud of it. He was not married at the time.

1. At age 17 she was not legally competent to consent to paid sex.

2. I’m sure Andrew’s lawyers explained to him that admitting to statutory rape is not something he should do, let alone something he should be proud of.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, connda said:

The wealthy and elite can purchase 'justice.' 

I don’t think Andrew is pleased with the justice he’s just agree to pay for.

 

His public life is over.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It wouldn't make any difference whether I was or wasn't.  If he did rape the brass when she was underage, do you not think that she would have mentioned it for the massive extra leverage she'd have on him in the civil suit?   

 

Apart from that, it has been widely reported many times that she was 17 at the time, the age of consent in the UK is 16 as has been pointed out countless times.

Law not your thing then?!

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Andrew's problem arose from denying he had ever met Ms. Giuffre, when a photo proved otherwise. If he had admitted it, he could have then gone for the Bill Clinton defense. As it was, he lied, and destroyed his credibility.

 

What with Phil the Greek shagging maids of honor, Charlie wishing he was a tampon, and Randy Andy, it should be pretty obvious the males in the royal family have a problem keeping it in their pants.

 

Easy to say he was treated unfairly. When you lie down with a dog like Epstein, you will assuredly get up with fleas.

 

All life can be unfair, haven't you comprehended that yet?

Like I wrote earlier. I met lots of girls many years ago. And maybe people made pictures at that time. Do I remember all the girls from many years ago? Certainly not, and I am sure I am no exception in that way.

 

And the rich and famous shagging around. Sure. Why not? And I am sure lots or their "partners" were proud to have sex with a royal or prince or someone famous, etc. If I would be a prince and lots of pretty girls want to make me happy I also wouldn't say no.

 

What makes Epstein a dog? He likes pretty girls like many of us. And he could afford many more than most of us can afford. Did Epstein ever force any girl to have sex with him? As far as I know that didn't happen. The problem for Epstein was that he was so rich that many of the prostitutes wanted even more money years later. 

 

And yes, I know life is not fair. But there is a difference about that statement in general and seeing that the modern MeToo and woke and whatever "culture" and the people who support that culture ruined the life of a guy who was never convicted of any crime. Imagine he would kill himself because of all this, how many people would think he deserves that? And then imagine a women was accused of something and she would kill herself. BIG DRAMA!

[Chomper Higgot]

41 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Was Giuffre a prostitute and die Andrew paid her or did he know if i.e. Epstein paid her to have sex with him?

 

Or maybe Giuffre was just one of those girls who like to be around rich guys and live a luxury life? And maybe she had sex with a prince. I am sure that would give her some rubber points with her friends.

Irrelevant, it’s not Giuffre who was on trial.

[worgeordie]

That's a very expensive leg over ........

regards worgeordie

[Lacessit]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Like I wrote earlier. I met lots of girls many years ago. And maybe people made pictures at that time. Do I remember all the girls from many years ago? Certainly not, and I am sure I am no exception in that way.

 

And the rich and famous shagging around. Sure. Why not? And I am sure lots or their "partners" were proud to have sex with a royal or prince or someone famous, etc. If I would be a prince and lots of pretty girls want to make me happy I also wouldn't say no.

 

What makes Epstein a dog? He likes pretty girls like many of us. And he could afford many more than most of us can afford. Did Epstein ever force any girl to have sex with him? As far as I know that didn't happen. The problem for Epstein was that he was so rich that many of the prostitutes wanted even more money years later. 

 

And yes, I know life is not fair. But there is a difference about that statement in general and seeing that the modern MeToo and woke and whatever "culture" and the people who support that culture ruined the life of a guy who was never convicted of any crime. Imagine he would kill himself because of all this, how many people would think he deserves that? And then imagine a women was accused of something and she would kill herself. BIG DRAMA!

I think you're missing the point, Epstein specialized in under-age girls. Which to me is a big no-no. I would hope it would be for you as well.

 

IMO being a celebrity, and also an anachronism, should set a higher standard. If it doesn't, please tell me the point of having a royal family at all.