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Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

Chris.B

By Chris.B
in The War in Ukraine

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GroveHillWanderer Platinum Member

GroveHillWanderer

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On 1/22/2023 at 6:17 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Germany didn't have nuclear weapons. It's a different world now.

So you're saying that if a country has nuclear weapons, they're just allowed to do whatever they want - invade, occupy, annex territory etc?

 

Talk about a recipe for international chaos.

 

In any event, as @kwonitoypointed out, effectively ceding control of Crimea, plus the Donbas and Lukhansk regions to Russia didn't appease them so there's absolutely no reason to  think further concessions of land would, either.

Edited by GroveHillWanderer
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tgw
tgw

the main story is Russia has been meddling in Ukraine for decades. Ukraine has been the recipient of billions of Euros as investment, loans, development aid and whatnot and is/was evolving into a

tgw
tgw

long story short, less than 2% of voters support the far-right in Ukraine. in all countries there are always a small group of extremists. Ukraine doesn't have a far-right problem. But i

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thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

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3 hours ago, Black Ops said:

F-16 fighter jets: What are they and could they be sent to help Ukraine?

They can fly at more than 1,200mph and are some of the most advanced aircraft in NATO's fleet. Could the F-16 be sent to Ukraine?

 

"The Dutch cabinet said will look into supplying F-16 fighter jets to Ukraine if the Kyiv government asks for them, the country's media have reported."

They must be expecting a very long war.

 

https://military-wiki.com/how-long-does-it-take-for-a-ukrainian-pilot-to-master-the-f-16/

After 2 years of training with the F-16 fighter, the pilot basically mastered the fighter, but could not participate in the war, but needed to undergo a training course in air combat.

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thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

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2 hours ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

So you're saying that if a country has nuclear weapons, they're just allowed to do whatever they want - invade, occupy, annex territory etc?

Well they won't invade any country in NATO, will they?

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Bkk Brian Star Member

Bkk Brian

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11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They must be expecting a very long war.

 

https://military-wiki.com/how-long-does-it-take-for-a-ukrainian-pilot-to-master-the-f-16/

After 2 years of training with the F-16 fighter, the pilot basically mastered the fighter, but could not participate in the war, but needed to undergo a training course in air combat.

Oh come on.......................that site is entirely published by one Vietnamese blogger.

 

Now listen to an expert:

 

"Conversion to a front line combat aircraft for a new pilot would usually take about six months to become limited combat ready. However, a more experienced pilot would take less than half that time, and someone requalifying on type after a break would only take a few weeks. If operational reasons demanded."

 

Full questions and answers on how long it could take and in article:

 

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/ukraine-time-to-fast-track-front-line-fighter-pilot-training/

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rudi49jr Platinum Member

rudi49jr

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44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well they won't invade any country in NATO, will they?

Nonsense. Putin and his regime have made it very clear that they want to restore Russia to what it was before the iron curtain and the Berlin wall went down. That includes countries such as Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Poland, which all happen to be members of NATO.

But apart from that, what you’re basically saying is that Russia can invade any country they like, as long as they don’t invade any country in NATO, is that it?

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thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

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1 minute ago, rudi49jr said:

Nonsense. Putin and his regime have made it very clear that they want to restore Russia to what it was before the iron curtain and the Berlin wall went down. That includes countries such as Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia and Poland, which all happen to be members of NATO.

But apart from that, what you’re basically saying is that Russia can invade any country they like, as long as they don’t invade any country in NATO, is that it?

No, what I'm saying if the bad man threatens you, you better be bigger and stronger than them. MAD has kept the west safe since WW2 ( but not a lot of smaller countries ).

 

bannork Ruby Member

bannork

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One big advantage Putin has over the West and its messy democracies with constant shifts in policy and governments.

No viable opposition allowed.

 

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Mavideol Diamond Member

Mavideol

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2 hours ago, bannork said:

One big advantage Putin has over the West and its messy democracies with constant shifts in policy and governments.

No viable opposition allowed.

 

Vlad does have options, if one chief doesn't do the job as he expects, change him ASAP, next rinse and repeat and re-rinse and repeat, nobody asks questions... btw how many times did he changed commanders

Russia changes senior military commanders – again

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-changes-senior-military-commanders-012500149.html

 

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Mavideol Diamond Member

Mavideol

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the so called "elite" army consisting mainly of mercenaries/assassins and pundits from Russian prisons are not doing so well.... ego conflicts rising on a daily basis

Russia’s ‘Elite’ Shadow Army Edges Into Complete Collapse

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-elite-shadow-army-edges-190304315.html

Putin's favorite mercenary leader may be preparing to justify a failure in Ukraine

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putins-favorite-mercenary-leader-may-232100149.html

Edited by Mavideol
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Several senior Ukrainian officials have resigned as President Volodymyr Zelensky begins a shake-up of personnel across his government.

A top adviser, four deputy ministers and five regional governors left their posts on Tuesday.

Their departures come as Ukraine launches a broad anti-corruption drive.

Recently, authorities have seen bribery claims, reports of officials buying food at inflated prices and one figure accused of living a lavish lifestyle.

Senior aide Mykhailo Podolyak said Mr Zelensky was responding to a "key public demand" that justice should apply to everyone.

The president has already banned state officials from leaving the country unless on authorised business.

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ballpoint Star Member

ballpoint

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The Russian military sure knows how to take care of its men.  Still, I guess when you're desperate for soldiers...

 

"Severely injured Russian soldiers are being returned to the frontline in Ukraine without the approval of military doctors, independent Russian news outlet Agentstvo reported on Thursday.

In one instance, two Russian soldiers with punctured lungs were sent into combat, instead of to a military medical commission for examination, Valentina Melnikova, executive secretary of the Union of the Committees of Soldiers' Mothers of Russia, said, per Agentstvo.

In another example, soldiers with shrapnel wounds were returned to fight, without the shrapnel being removed, according to a translation of the article by independent media outlet Meduza".

 

Wounded Russians Being Sent Back to Ukraine Frontline to Fight: Report (businessinsider.com)

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tgw Platinum Member

tgw

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30 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

American lawmakers urge U.S. to ship Abrams tanks to Ukraine.


https://www.reuters.com/world/american-lawmakers-urge-us-ship-abrams-tanks-ukraine-2023-01-22/

it's not impossible.

the US could ship some export models to Ukraine and setup a maintenance and repair facility in Poland, or, since Poland bought 116 M1A1 tanks that are currently being delived, it could also give these to Ukraine, and progressively replace them with the 250 brand new Abrams M1A2 SEP Poland has bought from the US after transferring 200 T-72 to Ukraine. Delivery planned to be completed in 2025.

Poland is Europe's tank hub.

I think Poland doesn't plan holding on to the 116 second hand Abrams that the US used in the gulf wars 30 years ago. But they might come in handy for Ukraine.

 

116 Abrams + 100 Leopards might be just what Ukraine needs for an offensive after destroying the expected Ruzzian push in the coming Spring.

 

Fun fact: Poland also has 48 aging F-16 C/D.

And that's also exactly the number of KAI T-50 "Golden Eagle" they have on order from South Korea. the T-50 is a modernized derivative of the F-16, while Poland's current F-16 C/D version dates back to 1998.

Time to renew the airforce's equipment too, and instead of scrapping, many carbon emissions can be saved by donating F-16 to Ukraine.
 

Quote

On 22 July 2022, Poland's Defense Minister Mariusz Blaszczak said in a media interview that the country is buying 48 FA-50 fighters.[127] On 28 July, KAI officially signed the deal for 12 FA-50 Block 10 and 36 FA-50PL Block 20 with the Polish government.[128] FA-50 deliveries are to start in 2023.[129] Blaszczak said KAI's ability to deliver the aircraft quickly was the decisive factor in it being chosen. As a result of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, the Polish Air Force desired urgently to replace their remaining MiG-29 fighter and Su-22 attack aircraft and the U.S. was unable to supply additional F-16s in such a short timeframe. Along with the fighter deal, KAI is expected to help establish a servicing center for them in Poland in cooperation with Polish defense industries by 2026.[130]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

 

F-16 in the air, Leopards and Abrams on the ground, with Marders and Bradleys.

 

I guess the main problem is how to proceed with the transfers without shocking the Ruzzians too much. Let's pretend Germany opposes the plan.

 

This post should send some of the readers here into panic mode.

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tgw Platinum Member

tgw

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At the same time, the West is clearly pushing its chess pieces:

 

EU on government reshuffle: ‘We welcome Ukrainian authorities taking corruption allegations seriously’

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/eu-on-government-reshuffle-we-welcome-ukrainian-authorities-taking-corruption-allegations-seriously

 

it's pretty clear that in exchange for military and economic aid, Zelensky is replacing some government figures with "our guys".

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candide Star Member

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4 hours ago, tgw said:

In my previous post, I pulled the number 100 out of my @ss but look what just turned up in the news:

 

ABC News: 12 countries ready to give about 100 Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine once Germany approves

https://kyivindependent.com/news-feed/abc-news-12-countries-ready-to-give-about-100-leopard-2-tanks-to-ukraine-once-germany-approves

 

100 is the minimum quantity (not sure It's really enough) to have an effect, and to benefit from scale effect in training. That's why Leopard is so useful as It's the most diffused in Europe. I  am not downplaying the high quality of British or French tanks, but if there isn't a large quantity of them, It's a lot of trouble for a relatively limited effect

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thaibeachlovers Star Member

thaibeachlovers

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5 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

American lawmakers urge U.S. to ship Abrams tanks to Ukraine.


https://www.reuters.com/world/american-lawmakers-urge-us-ship-abrams-tanks-ukraine-2023-01-22/

 

According to Al Jazeera they are on their way! The news article said there will be an announcement on Wednesday ( today ), so not official till then.

As with all new equipment training is required, ammunition, spares and maintenance in place before they can be used, so don't expect them in use next week.

IMO the Russians will advance their expected assault to get in before the Abrams and Leopards are ready, and no doubt they will be increasing anti tank weapons to counter them.

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Bkk Brian Star Member

Bkk Brian

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Ukraine already knows type of aircraft it may get from Western allies, Ukrainian Air Force says

“Our military pilots went to the United States, funds were allocated for their training,” the spokesman said.

“The type of aircraft that will probably be provided to Ukraine and the corresponding terms of personnel training have already been determined.”

https://english.nv.ua/nation/ukraine-already-knows-type-of-aircraft-it-may-get-from-western-allies-50299612.html

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The United States and Germany announced they are sending Abrams and Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine. CNN's John King speaks with Retired Lt. Gen. Mark Hertling on when the tanks will be ready for use.

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ITV News' Emma Burrows explores the speculation surrounding the Russian leaders' health and assesses what impact any illness he may be suffering could have on the war in Ukraine

Is Vladimir Putin unwell? Does he have Parkinson's? Cancer? A chronic illness? Does he use body doubles? Could he even be dead?As the war in Ukraine has progressed, more and more rumours have swirled about the state of Putin's health.

 

 

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Mavideol Diamond Member

Mavideol

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Vlad is having headache, scratching his head and losing whatever little sanity he had left .....with this type of machinery coming he will poop his pants  555

Putin Lackeys Lose Their Minds Over Ukraine Getting Battle Tanks

https://www.yahoo.com/news/putin-lackeys-lose-minds-over-143837232.html

This is the M1 Abrams, the powerful American main battle tank the US is sending to Ukraine

https://www.yahoo.com/news/m1-abrams-powerful-us-battle-122000515.html

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