Should four-day weeks become the norm to help workers survive?

[Misterwhisper]

Really?

The harebrained ideas in this country just never stop, do they?

 

Yes, let them work only 4 days per week so they can earn only 4 days worth of per-diem wages while working LONGER hours. But at least they can save a few baht on commuting.

 

That's going to be a sure winner with day laborers!

 

How about introducing a 0-day work week? I mean that will help those people to save EVEN MORE in commuting expenses.

[JonnyF]

56 minutes ago, mrbojangles said:

Just my 2 cents after recently retiring.

 

Working from home during covid was the most lazy I have ever been in my entire life. I used to be showing as being on line at work and I would stretch out my toe and stroke it on the laptop to ensure my connection didn't drop out. Of course I got work done but being as productive as being in the office? Absolutely no way and I know for sure I'm not alone in that, I'm just ok with owning up to it. I also see a massive delay in getting answers back from companies who are still allowing the working from home to continue versus the companies who are back at the coal front.

 

The other downside is that it causes resentment in the workplace from those whose job doesn't allow them to work from home. Eg. In a machine shop or production environment. Machine operator has to attend work for obvious reasons. Does the design engineer have to attend? Does the procurement dept have to attend? Does HR have to attend? Does line management have to attend? Does finance have to attend? etc, etc. Once you state which do have to go in and which don't, the do's start to resent the don'ts.

 

Back to the 4 day versus 5 day debate. I think this country should focus a bit more on getting a public transport system sorted out and encourage people to share modes of transport more than they currently do. Yes, the biggest problem here is that most use bikes instead of cars, so sharing isn't as easy as it is for us in the west but for those who can they should consider it more.

In terms of productivity, I found the opposite. For tasks that require high concentration (e.g. coding) I was able to immerse myself in the job completely without someone sticking their head into my office every 5 minutes for a personal chat or an opinion on something work related but generally unimportant.

 

Also, I like to take a 5 minute break every 30 minutes or so and I was able to do something useful during that break like take my laundry to the dropoff point, water the plants etc. instead of just browsing the internet (often this website) if I'm in the office.

 

I also lost weight as I'd spend my hour lunch break on the treadmill instead of browsing the internet as I do at the office. I ate better as well, it's easier to prepare decent food in your own kitchen that at the office.

 

Typically I would work from home 2 days per week though and 3 days in the office. I think this is a good balance. If it was 5 days at home, I think I'd slip into bad habits, couch surfing in my underpants, watching Netflix etc.

[vinci]

four day work week only work for the upper class worker where their pay are high and don't mind one day free time, cutting one day with no pay how does the poor have enough money to pay for rent and food.

[metisdead]

A post using ALL CAPS has been removed, please turn off your Caps Lock when posting.

 

A troll post and a reply has been removed. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

Love working from home. More productive I think. Most office workers I think could do their job in 4 days and have a day off.

I have to go back 3 days shortly but that 3 days can include days off so not too bad. Travel and noise and small talk at the office and just having to sit under fluorescent lights, and here people talk about last nights television, is going to be tedious but I suppose it might be OK to get out a bit. 

[RobU]

4 day weeks will only apply to very specific groups (mainly government, local government and senior management). Everyone else will have to continue working the same hours to make ends meet especially if the hourly rate remains the same.

[In Full Agreement]

12 hours ago, sungod said:

Many have dorms too.

 

Have you seen what the living conditions there are like?

 

 

[sungod]

9 hours ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

Have you seen what the living conditions there are like?

 

 

Sure, they got 1 room apartments around the corner from my house, looks pretty smart. 

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, sungod said:

Sure, they got 1 room apartments around the corner from my house, looks pretty smart. 

Yes it sure looks pretty smart to me as well...not.  A Shanty town set-up at a building construction site is not like a regular apartment.  While some do stay in true apartments they are packed in like sardines....

Edited March 19, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Ralf001]

Staff at my work would love a 4 day week, that would be 9 more hours overtime per week !!

[mikebell]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:57 AM, ThailandRyan said:

Not true if they plant multiple times during the year and then they always plant something else to take up the other months so they have money incoming.  I think your misinformed.

I've been to Issaan maybe 100 times.  Most farmers I met were horizontal &/or between crops. I've helped harvest rice and tapioca which are both back-breaking jobs but neither lasted more than a week.

[sungod]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes it sure looks pretty smart to me as well...not.  A Shanty town set-up at a building construction site is not like a regular apartment.  While some do stay in true apartments they are packed in like sardines....

Looks a lot better conditions than I was used to in the UK military when we went 'away'. There is even satellite TV in one of the the images!

 

Besides, no one makes them stay there, its out of choice.

 

If you are that bothered, why dont you put a couple up in your condo? Go on, make a difference!!!!

 

 

Edited March 19, 2022 by sungod

[jaideedave]

On 3/18/2022 at 10:01 AM, Yellowtail said:

Full-time employees are paid 30 days per month, be it for a 4, 5 or 6 day week. 

 

Regardless of the number of days worked. more than 8 hours a day must be paid overtime. 

 

Countless studies have been done over the last 100 years for production work, and generally, after eight hours productivity goes down. 

I retired from a pulp mill on the west coast of Canada. We switched over to the "compressed work week" way back in the 80s.The old timers didn't like it but eventually it was implemented and still doing it today. 4 days on 4 days off @ 12 hour shifts. The RCMP and nurses unions were doing the same. No extra staff required.Admittedly not much manual labor these days.

I liked it because I didn't need to use my vaca time and saved it for Tland every winter. I had lots of seniority and benefits. With banked OT I could stay here for up to 10 weeks paid leave . PS: I still couldn't wait to get out and left as soon as I turned 55 to get a reduced pension and move here.

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Yes it sure looks pretty smart to me as well...not.  A Shanty town set-up at a building construction site is not like a regular apartment.  While some do stay in true apartments they are packed in like sardines....

The discussion was about permanent  dorms provided for factory workers, not temporary housing onsite housing for construction workers. Do you understand the difference? 

 

Those kids look happy enough 

[Knocker33]

With the amount of pointless holidays they have here most people only work an average of three days a week anyway

[ThailandRyan]

5 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

The discussion was about permanent  dorms provided for factory workers, not temporary housing onsite housing for construction workers. Do you understand the difference? 

 

Those kids look happy enough 

The top and bottom photos I posted are permanent housing dorms, not temporary.  Many of the big projects like The One Bangkok and a few others have been in the works for years already and still have many more years to go, the middle photo would be a temporary housing but still set up for workers.  G on tell me it isn't so YT.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

The top and bottom photos I posted are permanent housing dorms, not temporary.  Many of the big projects like The One Bangkok and a few others have been in the works for years already and still have many more years to go, the middle photo would be a temporary housing but still set up for workers.  G on tell me it isn't so YT.

The One Bangkok project has been in the construction phase for years and has many years to go? How many more years do you think? 10, 20, 30? Incidentally, it took a little more than four years to build the Golden Gate Bridge, and less than five years to build the World Trade Center. 

 

In any event, they're temporary housing for transient labor, not permeant structures built for permanent employees. 

 

What's wrong with them anyway? Clean, safe, indoor plumbing, electricity. Where would you suggest they put all the transient workers?

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The One Bangkok project has been in the construction phase for years and has many years to go? How many more years do you think? 10, 20, 30? Incidentally, it took a little more than four years to build the Golden Gate Bridge, and less than five years to build the World Trade Center. 

 

In any event, they're temporary housing for transient labor, not permeant structures built for permanent employees. 

 

What's wrong with them anyway? Clean, safe, indoor plumbing, electricity. Where would you suggest they put all the transient workers?

 

 

You missed the point of the initial response to the original poster, so I will end this convo because we are way off topic.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Knocker33 said:

With the amount of pointless holidays they have here most people only work an average of three days a week anyway

Yeah, my boss got bent about all the holidays and complained the the US plants only got fifteen days.

 

Factory workers in the US typically work five days a week, so with 15 holidays that's 245 days/year before sick days, vacation etc.

Factory workers in Thailand typically work six days a week, so with 23 holidays that's 289 days/year before sick days, vacation etc.

 

So about 18% more. 

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

With above number, if a bike used i.e. 3l per 100km then a rider would pay less than 30THB for 20km, 10km to work and return. And that should be a reason that he does not work on that day to receive the minimum wage of 300 THB per day or whatever it is now? Strange logic. 

[Yellowtail]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

With above number, if a bike used i.e. 3l per 100km then a rider would pay less than 30THB for 20km, 10km to work and return. And that should be a reason that he does not work on that day to receive the minimum wage of 300 THB per day or whatever it is now? Strange logic. 

I think the idea is to have them still get their full pay, but work fewer days. Or perhaps two days a week they could assemble rice-cookers from home via zoom....

[DavisH]

23 hours ago, RobU said:

4 day weeks will only apply to very specific groups (mainly government, local government and senior management). Everyone else will have to continue working the same hours to make ends meet especially if the hourly rate remains the same.

My wife works at high level in government. While there are fixed office hours, you will often find staff burning the midnight oil in the evenings and on weekends. I askef my ife why they need to have meetings on the weekends - there is no time during the week, is her response. And with zoom, now she brings her meetings home after hours. She won't even let her staff work from home, because they will be less productive when outside of a work environment. 

[Pmbkk]

On 3/17/2022 at 11:41 PM, RichardColeman said:

Maybe you could suggest showing this well known UK documentary on the subject.

 

The Take That take off was brilliant - 'Come Back My Car Share Buddy' 

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/video/tvandshowbiz/peter-kays-car-share-character-sings-come-back-my-car-share-buddy-in-final-ever-episode/

[RobU]

2 hours ago, DavisH said:

My wife works at high level in government. While there are fixed office hours, you will often find staff burning the midnight oil in the evenings and on weekends. I askef my ife why they need to have meetings on the weekends - there is no time during the week, is her response. And with zoom, now she brings her meetings home after hours. She won't even let her staff work from home, because they will be less productive when outside of a work environment. 

Agreed I was the same when in salaried senior management posts with the NHS however there are many others not quite so committed at the same or higher levels and lower ranks who always go home on time and do not put the extra effort in they cannot be disciplined for lack of commitment and enthusiasm. I will guarantee your wife can tell you about quite a few of these characters who she can't touch

[RobU]

On 3/18/2022 at 3:41 AM, mrbojangles said:

Just my 2 cents after recently retiring.

 

Working from home during covid was the most lazy I have ever been in my entire life. I used to be showing as being on line at work and I would stretch out my toe and stroke it on the laptop to ensure my connection didn't drop out. Of course I got work done but being as productive as being in the office? Absolutely no way and I know for sure I'm not alone in that, I'm just ok with owning up to it. I also see a massive delay in getting answers back from companies who are still allowing the working from home to continue versus the companies who are back at the coal front.

 

The other downside is that it causes resentment in the workplace from those whose job doesn't allow them to work from home. Eg. In a machine shop or production environment. Machine operator has to attend work for obvious reasons. Does the design engineer have to attend? Does the procurement dept have to attend? Does HR have to attend? Does line management have to attend? Does finance have to attend? etc, etc. Once you state which do have to go in and which don't, the do's start to resent the don'ts.

 

Back to the 4 day versus 5 day debate. I think this country should focus a bit more on getting a public transport system sorted out and encourage people to share modes of transport more than they currently do. Yes, the biggest problem here is that most use bikes instead of cars, so sharing isn't as easy as it is for us in the west but for those who can they should consider it more.

Biggest problem in the UK is public transport it's atrocious. Government is trying to force people off the roads and use public transport but it is totally inadequate it is far less stressful to sit in a comfortable car in slow traffic than on a crowded bus in slow traffic. Its also during commuting times faster to use a bike because you can weave through stalled traffic and use small side lanes (and of course the pavement or sidewalk in Thailand). I agree with you about meetings I have been obliged to attend meetings which:

 

a) had nothing on the agenda I could contribute to

b) were actually totally unnecessary ie there were never any actionable outcomes other than twaddle such as 'mission statements' sometimes not even that usually the only outcome was a date and time set for the next meeting

 

I have worked on the shop floor and in the office and I know which is the easier ride, its definitely the office where people can stand up walk around chat with colleagues i.e. take time out at their own pace, spending a lot of time on office politics and gossip. Whereas shop floor usually have to stick to a rigorous schedule and actually work constantly for the whole shift. If office workers worked as constantly as shop floor workers you would need half the admin staff in most organisations, especially the larger ones or civil service. The constant response now in the UK is sorry for the delay 'it's because of Covid' or 'our staff are working from home' after 2 years that excuse is no longer valid. Working from home doesn't stop you from communicating with colleagues or attending meetings (Zoom or WhatsApp or Facebook) it is just another excuse (as you have exampled, I respectfully say that you were inadequately supervised both in the office and especially working from home), like Covid for bad working practice or cutbacks in staffing. Sorry for the rant but I am venting the frustration I felt when I worked thank god I am retired now. However I am now on the other end as a customer  being affected by these poor organisational practices. I'll have to go now the nurse has arrived to put me back in my straight jacket( lots of buckles and things) then tie me to the bed for the night.

[impulse]

On 3/17/2022 at 7:39 PM, GeorgeCross said:

On 3/17/2022 at 2:14 PM, webfact said:

Suggesting a four-day week would be beneficial for many employees, as long as their employers still reward them with the same wage

well if you are going to go there.. why not make it a ONE day week!

 

yay! stupid economics for everyone!!

A lot of companies do 10 hour days, 4 days a week.  Others do 9 hours a day and half a day on Friday.

 

You can't get 40 hours in one day.

 

Seems like it would be pretty simple to change the minimum wage from a daily rate to an hourly rate and have things come out even.  Saving on commuting time and costs.

Edited March 19, 2022 by impulse

[baboon]

On 3/18/2022 at 8:01 AM, Whale said:

I have always thought this idea to be socially correct (before I retired anyway :+) but economically faulted. We are in inflationary times, thats all there is to it. Costs will rise, wage inflation (costs inflating more than wages) is always a fact of inflationary times. But the proposal is a zero sum gain because what they gain by not raising wages they lose by the costs of production going up because production has been cut by the amount equal to a days output.

 

It seems this a political idea rolled out, to make people aware that times are going to get harder for them but people are working (no they are not!) on potential solutions. Theres one thing for sure, inflation will not affect the lifestyle of the rich, just the poor and lower middle classes. But I suppose as none of our politicians belong to those socio-economic groups they don't really care that much.

Ba$tard$. If you want to make the rich work harder, pay them more. If you want to make the poor work harder, pay them less. Scum...

[OneMoreFarang]

12 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

I think the idea is to have them still get their full pay, but work fewer days. Or perhaps two days a week they could assemble rice-cookers from home via zoom....

Whos idea is it to pay them for not working? Stupid idea - at least IMHO.

[In Full Agreement]

On 3/19/2022 at 9:23 AM, Ralf001 said:

Staff at my work would love a 4 day week, that would be 9 more hours overtime per week !!

 

Have you ever heard about laws being amended to account for changes?

 

[Ralf001]

34 minutes ago, In Full Agreement said:

 

Have you ever heard about laws being amended to account for changes?

 

Current Thai labour law is max 48 hour week @ 8 hrs per day.

 

you really think they will revise it to 4 days ?

 

FWIW the company I am at works 5 days at 9 hours (1 hour overtime every day for production staff).

For production staff Saturdays are mandatory @ 9 hours paid as overtime.

We also work two shifts open 24/7, every hour over the 5x9 are paid at overtime penalties (with paid meal breaks).

 

Many companies in the same industrial area do the same, we are but one of many industrial area's on the Eastern Seaboard that employ millions.