Great Wall Signs Deal With Thailand to Reduce EV Prices

[Andrew Dwyer]

New Haval H6 PHEV just announced, should be interesting .

[GroveHillWanderer]

22 hours ago, Sophon said:

With the government discount the MG EP is now at a very attractive price-point

And that's the more expensive version. The basic model is 761,000

 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by GroveHillWanderer

[Longwood50]

Yes the electric technology is so compelling that the governments around the world have to subsidize electric vehicles and/or ban internal combustion cars. 

If the case for electric cars was so overwhelmingly an economic positive you would not have to subsidize it or force customers to purchase them. 

Inverters AC are hugely more efficient than conventional AC, you don't see the need to convince people of that.  You didn't see the government subsidize cell phones to convince customers that they were more efficient than land lines.  There was no need to provide subsidies to LED televisions that both have a better picture and use less electricity. 

The actions of governments around the world are nothing more than a central controlled command and control tactic where they are selecting winners and losers. 

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by Longwood50

[ThailandRyan]

On 3/24/2022 at 8:14 AM, Crossy said:

With the 250k subsidy the MG-ZS is looking very tempting!

 

The version with the whizz-bang extras just scrapes over the 1MB line.

If they could get the infrastructure up I would trade in my MG HS for a ZS EV.  I would definitely be giving up some extra space for the convenience of reducing my carbon footprint.

[ballpoint]

This site shows charging stations globally:

PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car!

 

 

Zooming in and clicking on one, it tells you what wattage and plug types are available:

[ThailandRyan]

51 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

This site shows charging stations globally:

PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car!

 

 

Zooming in and clicking on one, it tells you what wattage and plug types are available:

So I need to charge it at a charging station because my Condo units parking structure is not setup for the charging of an EV....now how much sense does that make......

[gedster]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:23 AM, Darkside Gray said:

Just wondering, anyone seen a charger for one of these EV on the road anywhere?

https://www.eaanywhere.com/maps

 

[billd766]

On 3/24/2022 at 7:30 AM, Srikcir said:

"Andrea Cavallaro, Ford Operations Director, International Market Group, said internal combustion engine vehicles will continue to exist for some time, citing the fact that EV technology and infrastructure have yet to be adopted in Southeast Asia and other major economies worldwide."

 

BS - While Ford goes medieval with ICS in Thailand, it's going Star Wars in other major economies worldwide:

 

https://www.mall-11.xyz/ProductDetail.aspx?iid=22469884&pr=398.88

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/volkswagen-ford-deepen-electric-vehicle-cooperation-2022-03-14/

https://www.electrive.com/2021/03/18/ford-to-manufacture-two-evs-in-mexico/

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/ford/2021/09/27/ford-motor-company-all-electric-vehicles/5884985001/

https://www.barrons.com/articles/ford-motor-stock-china-sales-evs-51642181272

 

Note that imported Chinese manufactured EVs (ie., Tesla, BYD, SAIC, NIO, XPeng, Geely) pay no duty fees into Thailand. Combined with Thailand's new auto subsidies and lower VAT, Ford's Thailand ICE plants and sales are at severe risk from EV imports.

 

In fact just recently:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/21/foxconn-says-thailand-ev-factory-will-begin-producing-50000-units-by-2023/

They can make as many EV as they wish but they need the infrastructure in place before they sell the cars.

 

That means upgrading the entire electricity grid across the whole of Thailand, putting a secure charging point for every condo in every tower block. Putting secure charging points at every gas station along the main highways and at most other gas stations across the country. Upgrading every house electricity meter and all the power cables to the houses and along all the roadsides.

 

It will mean more and not less power stations, fossil fueled, solar, wind powered etc. Who will pay for this? what will happen in rural Thailand when people get a bill for electricity and they don't have a car, just a petrol motor bike or a diesel tractor?

 

Build all the EVs before the network is up graded is putting the cart before the horse IMHO.

 

 

[placeholder]

On 3/24/2022 at 9:08 AM, KhunLA said:

If you can't find a charging station, you're not looking for one:

 

Not just that. If you live in a house you can charge your EV at home. Given that for most of us, driving is mostly local, you really won't need a commercial charging station most of the time.

[ThailandRyan]

26 minutes ago, billd766 said:

They can make as many EV as they wish but they need the infrastructure in place before they sell the cars.

 

That means upgrading the entire electricity grid across the whole of Thailand, putting a secure charging point for every condo in every tower block. Putting secure charging points at every gas station along the main highways and at most other gas stations across the country. Upgrading every house electricity meter and all the power cables to the houses and along all the roadsides.

 

It will mean more and not less power stations, fossil fueled, solar, wind powered etc. Who will pay for this? what will happen in rural Thailand when people get a bill for electricity and they don't have a car, just a petrol motor bike or a diesel tractor?

 

Build all the EVs before the network is up graded is putting the cart before the horse IMHO.

 

 

What happens during the brown outs that are so common in the provinces when power is shut off for many hours during the day?

Edited March 31, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

They can make as many EV as they wish but they need the infrastructure in place before they sell the cars.

 

That means upgrading the entire electricity grid across the whole of Thailand, putting a secure charging point for every condo in every tower block. Putting secure charging points at every gas station along the main highways and at most other gas stations across the country. Upgrading every house electricity meter and all the power cables to the houses and along all the roadsides.

 

It will mean more and not less power stations, fossil fueled, solar, wind powered etc. Who will pay for this? what will happen in rural Thailand when people get a bill for electricity and they don't have a car, just a petrol motor bike or a diesel tractor?

 

Build all the EVs before the network is up graded is putting the cart before the horse IMHO.

 

 

No, they don't need all the infrastructure you claim they do. For one thing, most charging will be done at home. So you're going to need a lot less local commercial charging stations.  And most charging will be done at night, when rates are cheaper because the grid  infrastructure is underutilized. As time goes by, condos will offer charging stations. It doesn't have to happen immediately. It's not like one day there will be a few EVs and the next day millions. If your kind of reasoning were valid, automobiles would never have replaced literal horse power.

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

What happens during the brown outs that are so common in the provinces when power is shut off for many hours during the day?

During these frequent brownouts, are filling stations functioning? Can drivers get gasoline/petrol out of them? It's my impression that those pumps run on electricity. And if you have an electric car, you can top up your battery overnight.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

What happens during the brown outs that are so common in the provinces when power is shut off for many hours during the day?

In theory upgrading the grid network should eliminate the brownouts.

 

However TiT.

[billd766]

quote from the OP.  "By 2030, the government intends to produce 725,000 electric vehicles per year or 30% of total production."

 

That is only 8 years away (if they manage to do it).

 

NOW is the time to start the power grid upgrade as there are thousands of km of cables that will need upgrading. More electricity power stations will be needed and it cannot be done overnight.

 

58 minutes ago, placeholder said:

No, they don't need all the infrastructure you claim they do. For one thing, most charging will be done at home. So you're going to need a lot less local commercial charging stations.  And most charging will be done at night, when rates are cheaper because the grid  infrastructure is underutilized. As time goes by, condos will offer charging stations. It doesn't have to happen immediately. It's not like one day there will be a few EVs and the next day millions. If your kind of reasoning were valid, automobiles would never have replaced literal horse power.

But of course they will need the infrastructure in place by the time they get around the selling all these cars. If the condo parking spaces are not ready, where will the owners charge their cars?

 

According to the OP they will be building over 725,000 cars a year or over 2 million in 3 years. Granted many will be for export but that is still a lot of electric cars for Thailand. 

 

Kamphaeng Phet the city nearest to where I live has only 3 EV charging stations at the moment and 2 more on the highways according to a link on the thread and that is 65km rom where I live.

[fondue zoo]

Where do I plugin?

I loved my MG during the uni days.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

quote from the OP.  "By 2030, the government intends to produce 725,000 electric vehicles per year or 30% of total production."

 

That is only 8 years away (if they manage to do it).

 

NOW is the time to start the power grid upgrade as there are thousands of km of cables that will need upgrading. More electricity power stations will be needed and it cannot be done overnight.

 

But of course they will need the infrastructure in place by the time they get around the selling all these cars. If the condo parking spaces are not ready, where will the owners charge their cars?

 

According to the OP they will be building over 725,000 cars a year or over 2 million in 3 years. Granted many will be for export but that is still a lot of electric cars for Thailand. 

 

Kamphaeng Phet the city nearest to where I live has only 3 EV charging stations at the moment and 2 more on the highways according to a link on the thread and that is 65km rom where I live.

Why do you ignore the fact that most charging can be done at night when the grid infrastructure is underutilized? Also, for most people, how often will charging have to be done?

You forget that there will be a lot less need for commercial charging stations outside of the big cities.  I think there are a fair number of people in Thailand who live in houses.

So outside of the cities, most likely, is where purchases will be strongest at first.

I haven't seen any news about the government forcing people to buy EV's. Have you? If they're too inconvenient for some, then those people won't buy them. That's how a free market works, right?

 

Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=72db01967862

 

[KhunLA]

Spotted another Ora Good Cat cruising around locally today, white tags. ????

 

2nd one in a week, impressive, along with a few H6s already.  Expect many more after the Hua Hin showroom (old Chevy showroom ????) opens soon, as progressing fast when we drove by recently, if not already open.

 

MGs & GWM ... Rock on China

[RafPinto]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Spotted another Ora Good Cat cruising around locally today, white tags. ????

 

2nd one in a week, impressive, along with a few H6s already.  Expect many more after the Hua Hin showroom (old Chevy showroom ????) opens soon, as progressing fast when we drove by recently, if not already open.

 

MGs & GWM ... Rock on China

Over 1 Million for this small cat just to say you have a full EV?

 

I saw at school a mini Honda EV (forgot the name).
Over 2 Million. Are they crazy?

 

 

[KhunLA]

22 minutes ago, RafPinto said:

Over 1 Million for this small cat just to say you have a full EV?

Ora Good Cat price:  ฿828,500 and it certainly is NOT small.

(Dimensions: 4,235 mm L x 1,825 mm W x 1,596 mm H)

MG EP ฿761K ... same ballpark as very popular top end entry ICEs on offer

(Dimensions : 4,544 mm L x 1,818 mm W x 1,543 mm H)

MG ZS EV ฿949K

(Dimensions : 4,323 mm L x  1,809 mm W x 1,649 mm H)

 

Really isn't any reason not to get an EV now, unless you can't charge at home.

If can't charge at home, and just do local driving, then Suzuki Celerio @ ฿330k ????

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by KhunLA

[Andrew Dwyer]

53 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Spotted another Ora Good Cat cruising around locally today, white tags. ????

 

2nd one in a week, impressive, along with a few H6s already.  Expect many more after the Hua Hin showroom (old Chevy showroom ????) opens soon, as progressing fast when we drove by recently, if not already open.

 

MGs & GWM ... Rock on China

Yes, seen a couple of Ora Good Cats around here already, showroom open a couple of months ago.

Seem a few H6’s and Jolions around, they are similar in size and shape.

New Haval H6 PHEV on show at the motor show but no release date or reliable price yet, best rumour is 1.45 mill baht, claiming a 201 km range on PHEV battery !!

As others have said, the H6 is a big car and if you are not in the market for something so big take a look at Jolion, although miss out on the turbo of the H6.

The Jolion hybrid is nicely priced but the base model Toyota Cross Hybrid is also around 1 mill baht and has a 1.8 ICE compared to the 1.5 ICE on the Jolion.

A Jolion PHEV , if one appears, would probably be the dealbreaker for me if the range of the H6 (201 km ) is met.

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Spotted another Ora Good Cat cruising around locally today, white tags. ????

 

2nd one in a week, impressive, along with a few H6s already.  Expect many more after the Hua Hin showroom (old Chevy showroom ????) opens soon, as progressing fast when we drove by recently, if not already open.

 

MGs & GWM ... Rock on China

Good  luck with the new gwm showroom in HH  I  found them sheite  as  Chevrolet and  Ive been in there  recently and they didn t know  how to change the  clutch  fluid shared with the brakes through the bell  housing of the  transmission. Told me   didnt change it would be ok to do just the brakes and it  would "mix"  with the total  fluid  volume in the clutch  line...............this  despite a  bleed  valve on the clutch cylinder inside  the bell  housing for  just that purpose......and  here it  is.

Just  like Chevrolet...where  will the service  be  in 20  years, thats  how  long  Chevvy  lasted

[Rampant Rabbit]

21 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Yes, seen a couple of Ora Good Cats around here already, showroom open a couple of months ago.

Seem a few H6’s and Jolions around, they are similar in size and shape.

New Haval H6 PHEV on show at the motor show but no release date or reliable price yet, best rumour is 1.45 mill baht, claiming a 201 km range on PHEV battery !!

As others have said, the H6 is a big car and if you are not in the market for something so big take a look at Jolion, although miss out on the turbo of the H6.

The Jolion hybrid is nicely priced but the base model Toyota Cross Hybrid is also around 1 mill baht and has a 1.8 ICE compared to the 1.5 ICE on the Jolion.

A Jolion PHEV , if one appears, would probably be the dealbreaker for me if the range of the H6 (201 km ) is met.

Real  world  figures  nothing like whats  quoted,  couple of tests  in Thailand  of the ora cat 500k as  more  like 400 

[placeholder]

On 3/28/2022 at 3:44 PM, Longwood50 said:

Yes the electric technology is so compelling that the governments around the world have to subsidize electric vehicles and/or ban internal combustion cars. 

If the case for electric cars was so overwhelmingly an economic positive you would not have to subsidize it or force customers to purchase them. 

Inverters AC are hugely more efficient than conventional AC, you don't see the need to convince people of that.  You didn't see the government subsidize cell phones to convince customers that they were more efficient than land lines.  There was no need to provide subsidies to LED televisions that both have a better picture and use less electricity. 

The actions of governments around the world are nothing more than a central controlled command and control tactic where they are selecting winners and losers. 

 

You've tried this defective argument before and the faults in it are still the same. 

First, just because the government decided to give consumers incentive to buy EV's doesn't mean that EV's aren't economically viable. Just because a government judges something to be the case, that doesn't mean that free markets agree with it.

 

We know that subsidies aren't necessary because in the USA, even though Federal incentives for Teslas were phased out Jan 1, 2020 Tesla sales boomed afterwards. What's more, when the subsidies were phased out, Tesla lowered its prices. It took advantage of the subsidies but clearly didn't need them to be profitable.

 

And, of course, your argument takes no account of the fact that the fossil fuel industry is very heavily subsidized one way or another.. As the IMF pointed out, fossil fuel industries are subsidized  to the tune of approximately 5.5 trillion dollars per year which is about 6% of global GDP.

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

We know that subsidies aren't necessary because in the USA, even though Federal incentives for Teslas were phased out Jan 1, 2020 Tesla sales boomed afterwards. What's more, when the subsidies were phased out, Tesla lowered its prices. It took advantage of the subsidies but clearly didn't need them to be profitable.

Yeah right, by  selling emission credits

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Yeah right, by  selling emission credits

Not anymore...

Tesla finally made a profit without the help of emission credits

Tesla sold enough cars and energy products to turn a profit even without counting the sale of emissions credits to other automakers — a milestone for the company. This was the eighth profitable quarter in a row for Tesla, but the first where it can truly say it’s a profitable automaker.

Tesla shared Monday that it logged a $1.1 billion profit in the second quarter of 2021, with $354 million of that coming from credit sales. The rest came from automotive sales, as well as a boost in energy storage sales

https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/26/22594778/tesla-q2-2021-earnings-revenue-profit-credits-emissions-bitcoin

[scorecard]

On 3/27/2022 at 4:56 PM, Orinoco said:

Safety first. !!!!! ! 

350 metres of cable, very attractive to the many thieves who steal all sorts of cables and sell them to scrap dealers.

[Rampant Rabbit]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

with $354 million of that coming from credit sales.

and you dont see that as any issue,I see that as a massive gift from the govt +31%.........they also got a lot from cryptocurrency

Edited April 5, 2022 by Rampant Rabbit

[Rampant Rabbit]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

350 metres of cable, very attractive to the many thieves who steal all sorts of cables and sell them to scrap dealers.

Theyll  have to disconnect the  rice  cooker, tv phone chargers and everything else on the same cable first

[scorecard]

26 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Theyll  have to disconnect the  rice  cooker, tv phone chargers and everything else on the same cable first

I doubt they'll bother, cable is cable, just go right ahead and steal it and straight to the scrap man.

 

Rice cooking can wait, buy ready cooked at the market, phone charging no problem plenty of places at shopping outlets to plug in, TV never mind just watch something on your smart phone.

350 metres of cable, big money for scrap.  

[Mavideol]

China's EV market is shaking and they risk big losses because of their poor allegiances to other countries, the EV inventory in China is at the limit as potential buyers from western countries didn't jump on the cheap Chinese made models thus the government has no alternative then to direct their marketing strategies to Asia neighbors and gave away cash incentives to direct buyers to the Chinese models..... a pig with a dress still a pig

Edited April 5, 2022 by Mavideol