Clan politics is bad for Thai democracy

[webfact]

 

By Ken Lohatepanont

 

The prospect that Paetongtarn Shinawatra is likely to be Pheu Thai’s nominee for prime minister at the next election brings with it a certain sense of déjà vu. 

 

Most obviously, it echoes their decision 11 years earlier to nominate Yingluck Shinawatra to run the country, and of its predecessor Palang Prachachon party to pick Somchai Wongsawat as premier. That all three share family ties with former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra — a daughter, sister and brother in law — cannot escape notice. 

 

Lest we be accused of picking on Pheu Thai, however, we should also be reminded that this is a tradition not only within Pheu Thai, but also a very common practice across Thai political parties.

 

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Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/38873/clan-politics-is-bad-for-thai-democracy/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2022-03-24

 

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[ThailandRyan]

3 minutes ago, webfact said:

Lest we be accused of picking on Pheu Thai, however, we should also be reminded that this is a tradition not only within Pheu Thai, but also a very common practice across Thai political parties.

Thailand is still a Feudal country with groups, Clans, and Amart Elites that play the power game and run certain areas of the country.  Look at Sutheps family, the Family running Chonburi, Koh Tao etc......no better then the Mafia...  

 

Politics is full of corruption all over the world and not just in Thailand, its not just about who you know, it is about who has the money and can back you and then prosper from that backing or better yet running you like a puppet...Think Prayut.

[RandiRona]

And General's politics is fine?? Just because they control guns and tanks??

[Gottfrid]

Maybe it´s only me, but how is it with this headline?

Clan politics is bad for Thai democracy.

Can there really exist clan politics in a democracy? (Btw! I see it now. Sorry I asked. It stands "Thai democracy". Then it´s all ok.)

[Gottfrid]

2 minutes ago, RandiRona said:

And General's politics is fine?? Just because they control guns and tanks??

No, it´s not ok! But you have to ask yourself if you feel lucky? Who do you think run, when you say booo?

The guy that can point a tank at you, or the guy that knows you can confiscate all his assets?

[pomchop]

In a democracy the people vote for the person they want.  It is not then overturned by power hungry generals in coups or by storming a capitol to keep votes from being certified.

[mtls2005]

Paraphrasing Capt. Renault...

 

"I'm shocked, shocked that nepotism is prevalent here in thailand. Now ask Sgt. Renault to collect my brown envelope."

 

 

 

[FalangKino]

Junta politics is worse

[Eric Loh]

Clan politics is bad for democracy all over the world even in western democracy.  

[Enzian]

This is a shame because there are so many, products of the Thai educational system, who will vote strictly for the name without knowing or understanding anything else. And they have the numbers. 

[BangkokReady]

37 minutes ago, Gottfrid said:

Maybe it´s only me, but how is it with this headline?

Clan politics is bad for Thai democracy.

Can there really exist clan politics in a democracy? (Btw! I see it now. Sorry I asked. It stands "Thai democracy". Then it´s all ok.)

No, you're right.  The headline should be something like "Can democracy ever function effectively in Thailand while clan politics remains?".

[BangkokReady]

43 minutes ago, pomchop said:

In a democracy the people vote for the person they want. 

Not technically untrue, but there are rules about who can run, how they can motivate people to vote for them and who can actually be in control of the people who are being elected.

 

Keeping one family or one person in power indefinitely through corruption, cronyism and buying votes is not democracy.

 

43 minutes ago, pomchop said:

It is not then overturned by power hungry generals in coups or by storming a capitol to keep votes from being certified.

In a normal, functional democracy, sure.  Where people can vote fairly and elections can allow leaders and parties to change freely, yes, coups are not needed.

[pomchop]

15 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Not technically untrue, but there are rules about who can run, how they can motivate people to vote for them and who can actually be in control of the people who are being elected.

 

Keeping one family or one person in power indefinitely through corruption, cronyism and buying votes is not democracy.

 

In a normal, functional democracy, sure.  Where people can vote fairly and elections can allow leaders and parties to change freely, yes, coups are not needed.

keeping generals in power indefinitely is much worse than letting the people choose their leaders.

[BangkokReady]

3 minutes ago, pomchop said:

keeping generals in power indefinitely is much worse than letting the people choose their leaders.

Absolutely, but if you look at how attempts at democracy actually play out in Thailand, you can see why people are often in favour of coups.

 

No doubt, the junta should have gone back to democracy after a couple of years.  Thais should try for democracy, but the coup "backstop" is clearly something that cannot be removed completely, otherwise you just end up in the same situation but with a different group. 

 

Neither total control by the elite, nor total control by the poor, results in an optimal outcome for the country.

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

Absolutely, but if you look at how attempts at democracy actually play out in Thailand, you can see why people are often in favour of coups.

 

No doubt, the junta should have gone back to democracy after a couple of years.  Thais should try for democracy, but the coup "backstop" is clearly something that cannot be removed completely, otherwise you just end up in the same situation but with a different group. 

 

Neither total control by the elite, nor total control by the poor, results in an optimal outcome for the country.

Imagine if coups could occur in the UK, Europe and the US...Civil wars occur for a reason but laws are meant to stop this kind of activity not promulgate it like Thailands laws allow.

[BangkokReady]

13 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Imagine if coups could occur in the UK, Europe and the US...Civil wars occur for a reason but laws are meant to stop this kind of activity not promulgate it like Thailands laws allow.

Laws are also meant to prevent any situation occurring where a coup or civil war is seen as necessary.  Unfortunately, once someone is "voted" into power in Thailand they are able to restructure the political system and change laws at will to allow them to have complete and unchecked power, hence coups occur.

[internationalism]

political parties need "faces" before elections, just first to win those elections.

Doesn't mean she runs her political party, which she clearly doesn't, or that she will run the future government.

She is just a figurehead.

Still, she might have capabilities which yingluck had, without no apparent direct political experience. It would be good enough to float the future government.

Most probably it would be a coalition government with the PPP, with Prawit having upper hand behind the close door politics.

By the way - with nominated by military senate the future government will be toothless.

So far nobody at the top circles (including thaksin himself) wants constitutional and monarchy reform.

The future forward is already sidelined with new election law, which was set against them. And with multiple lese majeste thrown already against some of them, with many more looming upon more of them soon after the election.

Edited March 24, 2022 by internationalism

[MSMU1993]

Narrator:  No sh$t....

[Misterwhisper]

2 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

Paraphrasing Capt. Renault...

 

"I'm shocked, shocked that nepotism is prevalent here in thailand. Now ask Sgt. Renault to collect my brown envelope."

 

 

 

And then arrest the usual suspects.

[BangkokReady]

46 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said:

And then arrest the usual suspects.

Brilliant film.  It took me such a long time to watch it as well.

Edited March 24, 2022 by BangkokReady

[candide]

2 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Laws are also meant to prevent any situation occurring where a coup or civil war is seen as necessary.  Unfortunately, once someone is "voted" into power in Thailand they are able to restructure the political system and change laws at will to allow them to have complete and unchecked power, hence coups occur.

You seem to consider there may have been something like virtuous coups in Thailand. In the history of Thailand, coups have never been virtuous and always led to corruption. The current bench in power is not an exception. Coups have only been reactions by unelected clans who feel they are getting deprived of their power and access to the gravy train.

 

And as the current topic confirms, regularly interrupting a democratic process has not led to any improvement. There is a learning process in Democracy, by trial and error. This process cannot happen when it is continuously interrupted by coups.

[IanDelMar]

3 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

Neither total control by the elite, nor total control by the poor, results in an optimal outcome for the country.

A spurious statement. Total control? In a democracy the people choose who governs by an election. They choose from a selection of candidates and vote accordingly. Total control is seldom the result. On the other hand the result following a coup where the will of the people is removed forcefully by the coup perpetrators could be called total control. To be clear that is the current situation in Thailand. 

[BangkokReady]

10 minutes ago, IanDelMar said:

A spurious statement. Total control? In a democracy the people choose who governs by an election. They choose from a selection of candidates and vote accordingly. Total control is seldom the result.

That isn't how democracy has turned out in Thailand.  I suggest you read up on Thaksin Shinawatra and his Sister Yingluck.

[internationalism]

4 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

That isn't how democracy has turned out in Thailand.  I suggest you read up on Thaksin Shinawatra and his Sister Yingluck.

they both were under control of army. And were depose in military coups by their very close subordinates.

Also both of them were (and are) royalists.

 

[BangkokReady]

27 minutes ago, candide said:

You seem to consider there may have been something like virtuous coups in Thailand.

Sure.  Thailand has a history of it.  Look it up.

 

27 minutes ago, candide said:

In the history of Thailand, coups have never been virtuous and always led to corruption. The current bench in power is not an exception. Coups have only been reactions by unelected clans who feel they are getting deprived of their power and access to the gravy train.

One could equally argue that they have been virtuous and the result of corruption, where improperly elected clans have only sought to enrich themselves and gotten dangerously close to bankrupting the country.

 

27 minutes ago, candide said:

And as the current topic confirms, regularly interrupting a democratic process has not led to any improvement.

As the current topic confirms, clan politics and corruption is standing in the way of any improvement in democracy in Thailand.  (Probably a lack of proper education also.)

 

27 minutes ago, candide said:

There is a learning process in Democracy, by trial and error. This process cannot happen when it is continuously interrupted by coups.

On the contrary, the coup would serve as an essential part of the process, to ensure that absolute power does not slip into anyone's hands and remain there indefinitely.

 

There is no democratic country where "the will of the people" goes against the interest of the ruling elite.  It just doesn't happen.  This is a delicate balance that Thailand needs to learn to manage, as other countries have.

Edited March 24, 2022 by BangkokReady

[GroveHillWanderer]

6 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

On the contrary, the coup would serve as an essential part of the process, to ensure that absolute power does not slip into anyone's hands and remain there indefinitely.

Coups are an essential part of which process? Not the democratic process (which is what this thread is about) - that's for sure.

[BangkokReady]

6 minutes ago, GroveHillWanderer said:

Coups are an essential part of which process? Not the democratic process (which is what this thread is about) - that's for sure.

You seriously believe that the coups have interrupted actual democracy?  Wow!

 

I have a bridge to sell you, if you're interested...

[Eric Loh]

23 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

That isn't how democracy has turned out in Thailand.  I suggest you read up on Thaksin Shinawatra and his Sister Yingluck.

I read up and they were democratically elected. That’s how democracy work. 

[BangkokReady]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

they were democratically elected

Narrator: They weren't

[internationalism]

there was the only pro-democracy coup in thailand, in 1951. Marines stood against the army. Failed.

The only way to democracy is through the ballot box. And removal of all leaders and bosses.

https://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2018/06/29/battlefield-bangkok-the-time-the-navy-defied-the-army-and-lost/

Edited March 24, 2022 by internationalism