Thai Airlines Urged to Conduct Inspection of Boeing 737-800

[Ralf001]

32 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

I  don't know where you're getting your ideas from but this article disagrees with you.

 

'The NG has one of the best safety records among all aircraft, with just 11 fatal accidents out of more than 7,000 planes delivered since 1997'.

 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/boeing-737-800-jet-has-good-safety-record-but-crashed-a-few-times-full-list-11647879049037.html

 

 

[ozfarang]

17 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

That list only indicates the fatal accidents of the B737/600/700/800/900 since entering service, NOT the Cause.

 

Considering over 7000 of these variants have been built and of that list of 13 fatal accidents a lot are pilot error, the NG has a good safety records as the article indicates

[billd766]

22 hours ago, jacko45k said:

What, with an unexplained crash killing 132 only in the last week..... probably not no more it isn't.

 

Did see this..

One of the plane’s so-called black boxes—the cockpit voice recorder—was recovered Wednesday, according to reports. The flight-data recorder hadn’t been located as of Friday afternoon Eastern time.

How long do you think an aircraft accident investigation takes? Normally on aircraft of this size IIRC it would be somewhere between 6 to 9 months, though a preliminary report will be out in a week or 2. A lot depends on the damage to the CVR and the DFR and if China has the full facilities to read and understand them.

 

Perhaps they may need to go to the USA, to the labs there or at the Boeing plant facility there.

 

The initial report will rule out many things, such as a wing or the tail coming away. If large items like this are missing from the crash site then the investigators will follow the debris trail back to find them.

Edited March 27, 2022 by billd766
Bad spelling

[Ralf001]

23 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

That list only indicates the fatal accidents of the B737/600/700/800/900 since entering service, NOT the Cause.

 

 

Nice list though, plenty of unneeded deaths and carnage.

[Ralf001]

11 minutes ago, billd766 said:

at the Boeing plant facility there.

 

 

Does Boeing's facility at Zhoushan have the capacity to read the data from the flight recorders ?

[aussiexpat]

Just to clear up the number of B737-800 crashes, the 13 mentioned are accidents with fatalities, and 2 of those were B737-700 (1 of which was an emergency landing, not a crash)

 

Of the 11 B737-800, one was shot down by Iran, one was a mid-air collision, 2 overshot the runway, 1 undershot the runway and 1 skidded off the runway so that leaves 5 'others'

 

There are also 8 other B737-800 accidents with no fatalities, 3 overran runway, 1 undershot the runway and 3 skidded off the runway and 1 pilot landed on his nose wheel which collapsed

 

IMO, that's a pretty good safety record for over 7000 aircraft over 25 years

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_and_incidents_involving_the_Boeing_737

Edited March 27, 2022 by aussiexpat

[billd766]

21 hours ago, Moonlover said:

So am i right in thinking that you believe that 360kph is a reasonable speed for an aircraft with no engine power in a vertical dive? If so I'm not going to argue with you. In fact I'll even offer you a possible explanation.

 

One of the pilots spooled down the engines and put the aircraft into a vertical dive, That's literally engines off, nose down!

 

Does that keep you happy?

 

 

Of course it could have been a fault in 1 engine and the captain may have ordered the wrong engine to be shut down.

 

Now that would be a WAG, a Wild Anus Guess. That may have been a reason, but more likely a stab in the dark, and I wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't said it.

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, Ralf001 said:

Does Boeing's facility at Zhoushan have the capacity to read the data from the flight recorders ?

I honestly have no idea.

[cjinchiangrai]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:42 AM, pacovl46 said:

I don't think it was suicide because of the "slow" decent of the plane. 6000 meters in a minute equals 360 kilometers per hour, which is essentially  terminal velocity for a plane falling nose down straight out of the sky, which makes me think that the engines must have failed because at full throttle that plane could've easily done 1000 kilometers an hour going straight down. Of course there's always the possibility that the pilot wanted to prolong the misery. 

Engine failure at 29000 feet gives plenty of glide time to get to an airport. It was definitely not that.

[cjinchiangrai]

46 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I honestly have no idea.

The Chinese aircraft certification people certainly do. It would not be Boeing handling the recorders.

[aussiexpat]

They just found the Flight Data Recorder (FDR). Wow, it was 1.5m underground 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/china-finds-second-black-box-crashed-plane-state-media-2022-03-27/

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

Of course it could have been a fault in 1 engine and the captain may have ordered the wrong engine to be shut down.

 

Now that would be a WAG, a Wild Anus Guess. That may have been a reason, but more likely a stab in the dark, and I wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't said it.

It's been known to have happened at least twice. British Midland Airways Flight 092 in 1989 and TransAsia Airways Flight 235 in Taiwan in 2015. But they were both low level with no time to recover the situation. This wouldn't be a problem at cruising altitude.

[BusyB]

10 hours ago, Stargeezr said:

Considering there was no communications from this jet liner, makes me think that something

serious happened to knock out the ability for the pilots to communicate. I do hope that the flight data recorder 

will give good data. If a voice recorder is also located at the tail end of the aircraft, then we may get some

date. It sounded like  the one black box they found was very damaged, so hope they can still get the data.

  It was a tragic crash.

If they weren't in some way disabled the pilots were too busy struggling with the plane to think about putting out a distress call.

It's an old aviation rule when you get into trouble:

Aviate

Navigate

Communicate ...

[SomchaiCNX]

On 3/26/2022 at 9:57 AM, Sydebolle said:

Point taken but the 800 series was a quick-and-dirty fix against the competition. 

If, with capital letters IF, the media is telling us something faintly close to the truth then this particular flight had a more than senior cockpit crew of three seasoned pilots. One had booked 6,000 flying hours as captain and the other fellow with more than 20,000 hours; no details were available about the third captain (unclear also, why there were three pilots on this aircraft).

Suicide seems, to me, out of the question and something very, very serious went wrong and it has all the patterns of what brought down the 737-MAX. 

Reason enough for me to not board such a plane until it is clear, what happened to those 132 souls .. 

You should get a job with TAT so that you get paid to tell BS. And nothing to do with the Max, different planes.

 

[SomchaiCNX]

8 hours ago, billd766 said:

Of course it could have been a fault in 1 engine and the captain may have ordered the wrong engine to be shut down.

 

Now that would be a WAG, a Wild Anus Guess. That may have been a reason, but more likely a stab in the dark, and I wouldn't believe it myself if I hadn't said it.

BS The glide ratio of these planes is x2 + more than a regular Cessna 172. The dreamliner even has around 20 to 1 that means for each km of height it can glide 20 km. So 10 km is about 200 km in distance that's enough to reach an airport in most cases except if your are over an ocean. But then again, Capt Sully dit prove that you safely can land an airplane without engines. What you described happened in Taiwan with an ATR 42/72 at low altitude a couple years ago.

[stoutfella]

10 hours ago, Moonlover said:

I  don't know where you're getting your ideas from but this article disagrees with you.

 

'The NG has one of the best safety records among all aircraft, with just 11 fatal accidents out of more than 7,000 planes delivered since 1997'.

 

https://www.livemint.com/news/world/boeing-737-800-jet-has-good-safety-record-but-crashed-a-few-times-full-list-11647879049037.html

 

 

"just 11 fatal accidents". I'm impressed

[stoutfella]

10 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Total of 13 fatal flights killing 786 people since the 737-800 NG started flying.

 

Known problem appears to being able to not kill passengers and flight crew !!

"3 fatal flights killing 786 people", "able to not kill passengers". Isn't that a contradiction?

[stoutfella]

10 hours ago, ozfarang said:

What are the reported problems, do tell

 

 

No, exercise your brain.

[stoutfella]

10 hours ago, peter zwart said:

Are we reaching the point where we no longer select by price, but whether they use Boeing planes?
 

Yes, for me that is the case.

[stoutfella]

2 minutes ago, stoutfella said:

No, exercise your brain.

Or you could  look here  https://www.americanmachinist.com/news/article/21903252/faa-to-fine-boeing-39m-over-737ng-defects

 

or here

https://samchui.com/2019/09/30/serious-cracking-issue-identified-on-boeing-737-ng-aircraft/

or here

 

https://christinenegroni.com/boeing-workers-warn-of-737-ng-structural-problems-then-4-planes-fracture/

 

is that enough for you?

[pacovl46]

On 3/26/2022 at 6:22 PM, sezze said:

How do you get that speed ? The speed measured in Flightradar is horizontal ground speed , not speed in general . Even the horizontal ground speed exceeded the max of 540mph ( 590mph) .

 

One of the initial reports said the plane lost 6000 meters of altitude in one minute. 6x60 equals 360 km/h.

[pacovl46]

21 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Impact velocity. which was 370 knots. Terminal velocity (the highest) was 590 knots.

The initial report said something along the likes of the plane having lost 6000 meters of altitude in one minute. That would be a speed of 360 km/h. Where did you get the 590 knots of terminal velocity? I don't think a plane can reach 590 knots without engine thrust, even if it goes nose down. 

[pacovl46]

18 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Of course, there's always the much more likely possibility that I'm correct and you just didn't like having it pointed 

Yawn! You're boring!

 

I didn't mind you pointing it out to me. I did mind the pompous way you did it! Now do me a favor and get back on your high horse and ride off into the sunset because you're much better at that than posting comments here! 

Edited March 27, 2022 by pacovl46

[aussiexpat]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

The initial report said something along the likes of the plane having lost 6000 meters of altitude in one minute. That would be a speed of 360 km/h. Where did you get the 590 knots of terminal velocity? I don't think a plane can reach 590 knots without engine thrust, even if it goes nose down. 

You have to stop banging on about 6000m in 1 min = 360 km/h as fact. It has been pointed out many times that planes send live data and this shows aircraft reached 590 knots at one point (approx 1090 km/h)

 

Here is the actual data with yellow line showing the varying speed. Grey line shows the varying descent rate in feet per minute

 

https://www.flightradar24.com/blog/china-eastern-airlines-flight-5735-crashes-en-route-to-guangzhou/

Edited March 28, 2022 by aussiexpat

[ozfarang]

@stoutfella, fly Airbus and you will feel safe

[sezze]

Let's all wait official report and it won't harm anyone to check in front of possible failures of some kind . We are all just guessing here , and there are not much reasons and everything , but let the research team do some action . 737-800 have been around for some time and has been proven so far pretty safe , not like the 737-max .

[Moonlover]

2 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

The initial report said something along the likes of the plane having lost 6000 meters of altitude in one minute. That would be a speed of 360 km/h. Where did you get the 590 knots of terminal velocity? I don't think a plane can reach 590 knots without engine thrust, even if it goes nose down. 

Ironically Paco the latest rendering of the evidence is right there in your very own post above! 

 

Go back up there and take a look at the 'Flightradar'  data. Scroll down to 06:21:45Z (that's GMT by the way). Now look across. The aircraft is at 7,850 ft and shows an airspeed of 590 knots. That's its terminal velocity. It then begins to slow down again because it is coming into denser air, hence more drag.

 

Now if you want to dispute that, take it up with Flighradar. I've had enough of this nonsense.

 

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Of course, there's always the much more likely possibility that I'm correct and you just didn't like having it pointed 

Yawn! You're boring!

 

I didn't mind you pointing it out to me. I did mind the pompous way you did it!

So "boring" that you continue to read and respond.

 

Try to understand that your feelings about my comments are irrelevant to the discussion as long as my posts are not insults or flames.  Your feelings are your problem that you need to sort out, I can do nothing about them.  

[Liverpool Lou]

5 hours ago, pacovl46 said:

 

I didn't mind you pointing it out to me. I did mind the pompous way you did it! Now do me a favor and get back on your high horse and ride off into the sunset because you're much better at that than posting comments here! 

I've never ridden off into the sunset so I'm not going to start now, neither am I going to stop making accurate, rational posts regardless of your opinion about them.

[Andrew65]

On 3/27/2022 at 5:43 AM, Moonlover said:

The same happened to Egyptair 990 in 1999. which was attributed to a tussle for control between 2 of the crew members. I already suspected that this latest incident was a deliberate act and that glitch in the dive does give my suspicion some credence.

 

Anyway they have found the CVR so all may be revealed soon.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EgyptAir_Flight_990

I'm suspecting "pilot-intervention" as the cause.

There's a very good/interesting documentary about Egyptair 990.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Andrew65