Changing from non-B to non-O based on marriage or kids

[Na Fan]

This is mostly about process. There's a few things that are unclear to me that I hope to get a better understanding of.

 

I've been here on a non-B for 10 years now, with the regular silliness that is the yearly extensions, photo shoots and more photo shoots and piles and more piles of paper that nobody cares about.

 

So far, the process has always been to renew the work permit, that happened a few weeks before the extension and was quick and painless, and then afterwards do the visa with all the copious amounts of work that entails.

 

Now, if we change to a non-O based on marriage, I can see a few things:

 

- You will only need 2 Thai staff instead of 4 to sponsor your work permit. BUT:

 

- Since the visa is NOT business related, who then checks that? So far, the labor department never has. It has always been immigration when doing the non-B extension, coming for the yearly visit.

 

- Are the 2 processes then completely detached from each other?

 

- I will naturally have to keep working since I am the only earner of the household, and thus will require a work permit to continue staying here.

 

- The non-O marriage visa requirements state that the SPOUSE must have 40k per month in income or 400k in the bank. My wife has neither, she is a stay-at-home mom and the savings she has access to, are in a shared account. That seems unreasonable to me. What's with that? Is it impossible to get a non-o marriage visa and be the sole earner? Or is this just another means to get some tea money to "bend the rules"?

 

- Anything else you can tell me about the switch? We're in Chonburi, in case that matters.

 

Any feedback is appreciated!

 

Fan

 

 

[foreverlomsak]

5 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

- The non-O marriage visa requirements state that the SPOUSE must have 40k per month in income or 400k in the bank.

Never heard of the wife needing to have income or money in the bank, the 40kpm or 400k relates to the applicant

[ubonjoe]

30 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

The non-O marriage visa requirements state that the SPOUSE must have 40k per month in income or 400k in the bank. My wife has neither, she is a stay-at-home mom and the savings she has access to, are in a shared account.

That is general term and it means the non Thai spouse which would be you. You Thai wife does not need to show any income.

When applying for the extension based upon marriage unless using your income from working to meet the 40k bhat income you do not not need to show anything related to the company or even your work permit.

[Na Fan]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

That is general term and it means the non Thai spouse which would be you. You Thai wife does not need to show any income.

When applying for the extension based upon marriage unless using your income from working to meet the 40k bhat income you do not not need to show anything related to the company or even your work permit.

Interesting. First hit on google apparently got it the wrong way round:

 

https://visaguide.world/asia/thailand-visa/non-immigrant/marriage/

 

I quote: "Proof of your Thai spouse’s financial status."

 

But appreciate the clarification!

 

Anything on the rest of it all? So who checks the work permit requirements then, if immigration doesn't ?

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

I quote: "Proof of your Thai spouse’s financial status."

That would be the case if a non Thai woman married to a Thai man. He is the one that needs to prove the income in that case.

Best not to use such sites as the one mentioned since they may not have the correct info.

This from clause 2.18 of immigration order 327/2557 for extension of stay.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, Na Fan said:

Anything on the rest of it all? So who checks the work permit requirements then, if immigration doesn't ?

Requirements for Work permits are the responsibility of Ministry of Labour or Department of Employment outside Bangkok. Immigration has no interest in them or responsibility for them in general other than you have a genuine one if checked, they have even less interest if your visa or extension is not for the purpose of work.

 

if you are on a marriage extension or visa and you want to work then to work legally you need a work permit, the only interest that immigration has is if you are using the income method from working in Thailand then you must have a work permit.

Edited March 29, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[brianthainess]

23 hours ago, Na Fan said:

the savings she has access to, are in a shared account.

The 400k has to be in your OWN account in your name only.

[sometimewoodworker]

6 minutes ago, brianthainess said:

The 400k has to be in your OWN account in your name only.

Some offices will allow a joint account, but only if the funds are double the requirement for the extension. So 800k for marriage and 1.6 million for retirement. 
 

DO NOTE it is only a few offices that accept that kind of joint account and deposit amounts, most will not.  TIT YMMV

[Na Fan]

On 3/29/2022 at 8:11 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Requirements for Work permits are the responsibility of Ministry of Labour or Department of Employment outside Bangkok. Immigration has no interest in them or responsibility for them in general other than you have a genuine one if checked, they have even less interest if your visa or extension is not for the purpose of work.

 

if you are on a marriage extension or visa and you want to work then to work legally you need a work permit, the only interest that immigration has is if you are using the income method from working in Thailand then you must have a work permit.

So how come, that in the last 10 years the ministry of labor has shown no interest whatsoever, but immigration persisted every year with photo shoots, visits, and piles and piles of paper validating my work situation over and over and over again? What you're saying doesn't match reality for me. It has always been the immigration office that validated the work situation.

 

That's my main question, if this stupid charade and theater is finally going away when you're on a non-O.

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

So how come, that in the last 10 years the ministry of labor has shown no interest whatsoever, but immigration persisted every year with photo shoots, visits, and piles and piles of paper validating my work situation over and over and over again? What you're saying doesn't match reality for me. It has always been the immigration office that validated the work situation.

Your work permit issued by the Labor Ministry and extension of stay based upon working issued by a immigration office are 2 completely separate things you have to do.

Your work permit does not allow you to stay in the country. Only a permit to stay issued by immigration allows you do that.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Na Fan said:

So how come, that in the last 10 years the ministry of labor has shown no interest whatsoever, but immigration persisted every year with photo shoots, visits, and piles and piles of paper validating my work situation over and over and over again? What you're saying doesn't match reality for me. It has always been the immigration office that validated the work situation.

 

That's my main question, if this stupid charade and theater is finally going away when you're on a non-O.

 

Did you actually read my post? Immigration is concerned with making sure that your reason for your visa is  legitimate or the income if generated in Thailand is legitimate.

 

have a working extension, and they are going to be checking, use income from Thailand for a marriage extension, and they are going to be checking.

 

don’t have a working extension, don’t use income generated in Thailand for an extension and immigration doesn’t care about your work permit.

 

Do note it is the immigration department not the labour department. There are quite a few people who will try to get away with fake jobs or fake income to evade immigration department rules, they are the ones whose actions make your life difficult.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Na Fan]

4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Did you actually read my post? Immigration is concerned with making sure that your reason for your visa is  legitimate or the income if generated in Thailand is legitimate.

 

have a working extension, and they are going to be checking, use income from Thailand for a marriage extension, and they are going to be checking.

 

don’t have a working extension, don’t use income generated in Thailand for an extension and immigration doesn’t care about your work permit.

 

Do note it is the immigration department not the labour department. There are quite a few people who will try to get away with fake jobs or fake income to evade immigration department rules, they are the ones whose actions make your life difficult.

 

Thanks for the response!

 

So what you're saying is essentially that everything will still be the same if you have a non-O with an income condition attached, and the same circus will still be in play.

 

So what's the easiest way then? Non-O for dependents (wife and I have 2 kids here) according to here sounds hassle-free:  https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-type-o ? Is that less of a hassle and still allows you to get a work permit?

 

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Na Fan said:

Thanks for the response!

 

So what you're saying is essentially that everything will still be the same if you have a non-O with an income condition attached, and the same circus will still be in play.

 

So what's the easiest way then? Non-O for dependents (wife and I have 2 kids here) according to here sounds hassle-free:  https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-type-o ? Is that less of a hassle and still allows you to get a work permit?

 

 

 

You seem to be confused.
An extension for marriage’s financial requirements can be be supported by

1) a bank deposit,

2) income from overseas,

3) income from Thailand.

 

Each one requires proof. The simplest one is a bank deposit, followed by overseas income and, most paperwork, income from Thailand.

 

You can get a work permit so working legally with that extension..

 

Visas are rather different & in the vast majority of cases are not issued in Thailand. After entry you are able to get a work permit if the visa was for a Thai wife or Thai children.

To clarify there is no income condition attached to the extension. Income is one way of qualifying.

 

easiest is park 400k in a bank 2 months before renewal.

 

personally I have 400k in a reasonably OK interest bearing account all year.

Edited April 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Na Fan]

5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You seem to be confused.
An extension for marriage’s financial requirements can be be supported by

1) a bank deposit,

2) income from overseas,

3) income from Thailand.

 

Each one requires proof. The simplest one is a bank deposit, followed by overseas income and, most paperwork, income from Thailand.

 

You can get a work permit so working legally with that extension..

 

Visas are rather different & in the vast majority of cases are not issued in Thailand. After entry you are able to get a work permit if the visa was for a Thai wife or Thai children.

To clarify there is no income condition attached to the extension. Income is one way of qualifying.

 

easiest is park 400k in a bank 2 months before renewal.

 

personally I have 400k in a reasonably OK interest bearing account all year.

Yes I am confused. And that's after being here for 10 years and doing yearly extensions. Says something about the processes here, I suppose.

 

What if we don't do marriage but just to support the dependents (kids)? I don't see any financial requirements here: https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-type-o

 

 

[ubonjoe]

20 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

What if we don't do marriage but just to support the dependents (kids)? I don't see any financial requirements here: https://sydney.thaiembassy.org/en/publicservice/non-immigrant-visa-type-o

That is for a single or multiple entry non-o visa that allows a 90 days stay in the country when using it for entry.

It is not a one year extension of stay that allows you to stay in the country without leaving.

[Na Fan]

18 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is for a single or multiple entry non-o visa that allows a 90 days stay in the country when using it for entry.

It is not a one year extension of stay that allows you to stay in the country without leaving.

Even though that's exactly what it says there?

 

<<

2. O Spouse Visa Conditions

- The O Spouse is valid for a single entry 90 days or multiple entries 1 year from the date of issuance.
- The extension of stay is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer. >>

[sometimewoodworker]

33 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

Yes I am confused. And that's after being here for 10 years and doing yearly extensions. Says something about the processes here, I suppose.

 

What if we don't do marriage but just to support the dependents (kids)? I don't see any financial requirements here:

It rather speaks to the difficulty of understanding rules and regulations. Bureaucracy is seldom concerned with simple English and since English is a foreign language here it’s not surprising that rules aren’t so easy to understand.

 

You don’t say where you are. You don’t say your intentions in Thailand. 
 

So until those points are clear it’s difficult to give advice for your circumstances.

 

all that is clear is:

you have worked in Thailand for 10 years

you are married to a Thai national (assumed)

you have Thai national children (assumed)

 

[sometimewoodworker]

5 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

Even though that's exactly what it says there?

 

<<

2. O Spouse Visa Conditions

- The O Spouse is valid for a single entry 90 days or multiple entries 1 year from the date of issuance.
- The extension of stay is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer. >>

It doesn’t say what you seem to think, you are not reading it correctly.
 

If the embassy issues multiple entry non-O visas (many do not) each entry is only for 90 days you then in general must leave the country (ignoring different extensions that are possible)

Edited April 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Na Fan said:

Even though that's exactly what it says there?

 

<<

2. O Spouse Visa Conditions

- The O Spouse is valid for a single entry 90 days or multiple entries 1 year from the date of issuance.
- The extension of stay is at the discretion of the Immigration Officer. >>

That one year is the validity of the multiple entry non-o visa and it allows unlimited 90 day entries up to the day it expires.

If you apply for a extension at immigration you can stay longer than 90 days.

[Na Fan]

6 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

It rather speaks to the difficulty of understanding rules and regulations. Bureaucracy is seldom concerned with simple English and since English is a foreign language here it’s not surprising that rules aren’t so easy to understand.

 

You don’t say where you are. You don’t say your intentions in Thailand. 
 

So until those points are clear it’s difficult to give advice for your circumstances.

 

all that is clear is:

you have worked in Thailand for 10 years

you are married to a Thai national (assumed)

you have Thai national children (assumed)

 

All of the above is correct, yes!

 

I'm just looking to stay here with my family (in Chonburi) and without the constant hassle of spending what amounts to close to 2 weeks full-time per year to run around like crazy collecting documents, taking photos, etc etc, if I can avoid that. (Yes I am aware of PR and the cost turns me off).

 

[sometimewoodworker]

10 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

All of the above is correct, yes!

 

I'm just looking to stay here with my family (in Chonburi) and without the constant hassle of spending what amounts to close to 2 weeks full-time per year to run around like crazy collecting documents, taking photos, etc etc, if I can avoid that. (Yes I am aware of PR and the cost turns me off).

 

If as you say, you are working then since you have been working for 10 years and in Thailand that long then get citizenship (you bypass PR and it’s much less costly) assuming your income is high enough,  then there will be no conditions on working and your contact with immigration stops permanently.

 

none of the visas are relevant unless you leave Thailand.

 

if you leave Thailand then your shot at citizenship is gone for 3 years

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Na Fan]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If as you say, you are working then since you have been working for 10 years and in Thailand that long then get citizenship (you bypass PR and it’s much less costly) assuming your income is high enough,  then there will be no conditions on working and your contact with immigration stops permanently.

 

none of the visas are relevant unless you leave Thailand.

 

if you leave Thailand then your shot at citizenship is gone for 3 years

 

 

How do you "bypass PR"?

[ubonjoe]

23 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

How do you "bypass PR"?

If married to a Thai having PR is not required.

[Na Fan]

24 minutes ago, Na Fan said:

How do you "bypass PR"?

There seems to be much better information on that part out there, than on visas.

 

Still, takes YEARS to do that.

[Na Fan]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If married to a Thai having PR is not required.

Yeah, thanks!