Florida's Don't Say Gay Bill Signed Into Law -- Demagogue's Delight

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

"young gay kids"

 

ho·mo·sex·u·al

 

(of a person) sexually attracted to people of one's own sex.

 

a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.

 

 

Since when can young kids be gay?

Since forever. Gay is not limited to sexual. It also includes emotional. I recall such attraction as among my earliest school memories. 

 

Though I was never into fashion!

 

 

[frantick]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Since forever. Gay is not limited to sexual. It also includes emotional. I recall such attraction as among my earliest school memories. 

 

Though I was never into fashion!

 

 

The boy in the clip is effeminate, not necessarily gay. Gay will be when he learns, probably at school, where he likes to rub his genitals. 

 

I say we just let the blue states do their thing, and the red states do theirs, and check back in a few years. 

 

[Jingthing]

No state should have to live under fascist laws that tell LGBT kids that all LGBT topics in all grades are taboo to talk about in schools under threat of lawsuits, giving them the message that there is something terribly wrong with them, encouraging their peers to bully them even more, inevitably leading to even higher suicide rates. These laws are the opposite of protecting children. They literally threaten the lives of LGBT youth.

[Screaming]

Parental Rights in Education Bill, it is not called the Don't say gay bill. The bill does prohibit classroom instruction on "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" with children in third grade or younger, "or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

The bill does not ban the word "gay" in school settings, and it does not ban casual discussions of topics relating to sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom. I really wish I were an American citizen so I could vote for Governor DeSantis in the upcoming election. This man is a true patriot.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Screaming said:

Parental Rights in Education Bill, it is not called the Don't say gay bill. The bill does prohibit classroom instruction on "sexual orientation" and "gender identity" with children in third grade or younger, "or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

The bill does not ban the word "gay" in school settings, and it does not ban casual discussions of topics relating to sexual orientation and gender identity in the classroom. I really wish I were an American citizen so I could vote for Governor DeSantis in the upcoming election. This man is a true patriot.

That is a distortion.

It doesn't need to explicitly ban in later grades because the language about later grades is incredibly vague and there is no plan to clarify the specifics.

Thus schools will be forced under threat of financially ruinous lawsuits by anti LGBT activist parents to order their teachers to strictly suppress ALL LGBT topics from everything in classes in all grades. Because what is allowed or not allowed is never defined so the right wing parents are free to sue about anything.

Again this right wing INTIMIDATION based law is suitable for TOTALITARIAN states which sadly is what the USA is well on the way to becoming.

[Jingthing]

Of course some teachers even when ordered to stamp out free speech by the school authorities will take the vague wording as a challenge to test the boundaries. So what happens when the school gets sued no matter how ridiculous the accusation, to such teachers? It seems to me they would probably be fired.

Free country huh?

This is more like the east german stasi.

[Jingthing]

57 minutes ago, Screaming said:

...

 

I really wish I were an American citizen so I could vote for Governor DeSantis in the upcoming election. This man is a true patriot.

Yeah sure.

It takes a real he man patriot to pass unnecesary laws meant to intimidate and scapegoat marginalized minority groups for cynical political gain. 

[GarryP]

On 4/10/2022 at 10:23 AM, Jingthing said:

The right wing anti LGBT activists are promoting social INTOLERANCE. 

Don't you think that this could be a response to the extreme 5 or 10%, but very loud fringe, of the LGBT community, who I believe are doing more harm than good for LGBT rights.  

[CharlieH]

Reported flame removed

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, frantick said:

...

I agree the law is poorly written. It will be struck down if ever tested. Nothing for you to worry about. 

 

 

I hope you're right that the law will be struck down but I am not confident about that as thanks to the last one term president there are very many right wing anti minority civil rights judges. Also these kinds of right wing intimidation laws are a significant national trend  Not only about LGBT but also CRT and of course abortion as seen in extreme example in Texas.

[Jingthing]

45 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Don't you think that this could be a response to the extreme 5 or 10%, but very loud fringe, of the LGBT community, who I believe are doing more harm than good for LGBT rights.  

Blame the scapegoated minority group for being scapegoated instead of the scapegoaters?

Where have we heard that one before?

Hmm.

[Jingthing]

Uneccesary and dangerous bill.

Perhaps a better name for it might be the Promote LGBT youth suicide bill.

 

 

[Jingthing]

Right wingers have massively escalated against everything LGBT.

People defending this are defending vicious scapegoating, extreme anti-free speech censorship, ignorance, and bigotry using intimidation threat tactics.

I suggest such people (the subset that aren't anti-semitic) do a mental test. Replace the word Jews for LGBTQ and ask yourself -- would that be OK?

So why is attacking LGBTQ people this way OK? 

This is the classic tactic of totalitarian / authoritarian governments throughout history -- viciously scapegoat already widely hated minorities. 

Putin is doing this in Russia (though he's currently busy with being a war criminal) and one of the two major parties in the US that will likely soon take over congress and already totally controls the supreme court, is doing it in the U.S.

 

 

More than 300 anti-LGBTQ bills pending state legislatures in 2022 | Watch (msn.com)

 

[frantick]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Right wingers have massively escalated against everything LGBT.

People defending this are defending vicious scapegoating, extreme anti-free speech censorship, ignorance, and bigotry using intimidation threat tactics.

I suggest such people (the subset that aren't anti-semitic) do a mental test. Replace the word Jews for LGBTQ and ask yourself -- would that be OK?

So why is attacking LGBTQ people this way OK? 

This is the classic tactic of totalitarian / authoritarian governments throughout history -- viciously scapegoat already widely hated minorities. 

Putin is doing this in Russia (though he's currently busy with being a war criminal) and one of the two major parties in the US that will likely soon take over congress and already totally controls the supreme court, is doing it in the U.S.

 

 

More than 300 anti-LGBTQ bills pending state legislatures in 2022 | Watch (msn.com)

 

You have a problem with Jews? Your flailing comparisons to them aren't equivalent. 

 

As far as free speech, I lean right, but I'm nearly 99% sure that most of my posts have been flagged by a lefty. How do I know this? Because people on the right learn early on that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me". Who's not for free speech? 

 

I know this is a private forum, and I must follow their rules, but the facts regarding which side is limiting free speech, and opinion, remain. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, frantick said:

You have a problem with Jews? Your flailing comparisons to them aren't equivalent. 

 

As far as free speech, I lean right, but I'm nearly 99% sure that most of my posts have been flagged by a lefty. How do I know this? Because people on the right learn early on that "sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never harm me". Who's not for free speech? 

 

I know this is a private forum, and I must follow their rules, but the facts regarding which side is limiting free speech, and opinion, remain. 

Oh, mary, please.

 

This isn't about your personal problems on the forum.

 

The Jews comparison is about minority groups being scapegoated for political gain.

 

I brought up free speech in relation to the anti LGBT school laws. They are definitely anti free speech laws coming from the right. I've explained how numerous times already. The right is doing a very similar thing with the anti CRT laws.

 

[frantick]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Oh, mary, please.

 

This isn't about your personal problems on the forum.

 

The Jews comparison is about minority groups being scapegoated for political gain.

 

I brought up free speech in relation to the anti LGBT school laws. They are definitely anti free speech laws coming from the right. I've explained how numerous times already. The right is doing a very similar thing with the anti CRT laws.

 

Mary? Another disgruntled Catholic? 

 

The left have been scapegoating minorities for decades for political gain, and where has that gotten them? They're doing it as we speak at the US southern border. They're using you too, and your issues, and you don't even know. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, frantick said:

Mary? Another disgruntled Catholic? 

 

The left have been scapegoating minorities for decades for political gain, and where has that gotten them? They're doing it as we speak at the US southern border. They're using you too, and your issues, and you don't even know. 

Unbelievable garbage. 

[frantick]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Unbelievable garbage. 

If you find my replies garbage, I'm an easy block away. Free speech and all... 

 

I mean why even have discussion forums where everybody agrees with each other? Who would need that much validation? Oh, I think I know. 

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, frantick said:

If you find my replies garbage, I'm an easy block away. Free speech and all... 

 

I mean why even have discussion forums where everybody agrees with each other? Who would need that much validation? Oh, I think I know. 

All you do is deflect. That's not discussion. Bye.

[frantick]

29 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

All you do is deflect. That's not discussion. Bye.

"Unbelievable garbage" is not deflection? OK. Bye. I've stated my opinion. I'll exit your thread. 

[Jingthing]

As far as the free speech issue:

 

It is true that there are anti free speech forces from the right and the left.

 

For an excellent example, follow the commentaries of Bill Maher on the censorship of comedians on college campuses, obviously that is coming from the left.

 

But THIS TOPIC is about anti LGBT laws in schools (with anti CRT laws being closely related).

That anti free speech movement (among other ills) to erase LGBT everything in classrooms in ALL GRADES is strictly coming from the right wing, and more specifically from the Christian right wing. It may find support from other low information types that haven't bothered to digest the massive implications of these bills on ALL GRADES though. But the activists pushing these bills -- totally right wing. No doubt about that at all. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

As a non gay observer I take your point on these issues. It is a concern and seems mostly just political frippery. It could do harm to gay kids who could do with role models and a helping hand and an acknowledgement that they are normal.  

I don't though like comparisons with Putin and Russia. A teacher having to be careful about what they say about their personal life, or about expressing how they consider the world is, may not be ideal but of course it's not comparable to the limitations in Russia. You may think it's a slippery slope but it ain't that slippery because even the proponents are being very careful about how they are expressing themselves. It is 2022, and in the United States the gay freedom genie is out of the bottle, and isn't going back in.

The other thing is, there is an element of truth in the concept that teachers in general need to keep personal values and ideals and preferences out of the classroom, as much as is possible. Especially as it relates to transgender stuff which is controversial and needs special care. Before kids are at least teenagers I can see that parents don't want to give teachers the ability to take the conversation down their own personal rabbit hole . You can still teach that it's good to let people follow their own path without getting into specifics.  

 

 

[Jingthing]

The aims of both movements are very, very similar. Motivated by POLITICS. Yes it IS a  slippery slope. Did you digest these various anti LGBT bills are popping up nationally? Not only about trans but everything LGBT. Medical care for trans made a FELONY in Alabama.  Do you realize that part of this movement is to reverse marriage equality? There used to be hope for national anti-discrimination laws for housing and employment. That is dead now. The right wing Christians killed it. 

 

The fact that American right wingers have allied themselves with Putin is entirely relevant. Some have gone into the closet about that since the invasion of Ukraine, but many have not changed their stripes. Tucker Carlson the grand Poobah of American right wing Putin lovers is featured often on Russia's propaganda. Tucker has the most popular cable tv show in the U.S. That is the opposite of fringe. 

 

I think you're very wrong to discount this connection. We see it in other countries right wing's too, such as France, Hungary, etc. 

 

No Support: Russia’s “Gay Propaganda” Law Imperils LGBT Youth | HRW

[SunnyinBangrak]

 Can any of the experts on this bill point to the exact part/direct quote from this anti grooming bill that states "don't say gay"?

After a long line of increasingly bold disinformation campaigns from the same media that is attacking this bill, I am wary the don't say gay narrative is also totally fallacious. 

 

 Luckily my kids and grandkids are grown up now. But if I had a 4  or 5 year old that was being groomed/sexualized by "teachers" I would have been somewhat peeved. To put it mildly. 

[EVENKEEL]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Unbelievable garbage. 

 

45 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The aims of both movements are very, very similar. Motivated by POLITICS. Yes it IS a  slippery slope. Did you digest these various anti LGBT bills are popping up nationally? Not only about trans but everything LGBT. Medical care for trans made a FELONY in Alabama.  Do you realize that part of this movement is to reverse marriage equality? There used to be hope for national anti-discrimination laws for housing and employment. That is dead now. The right wing Christians killed it. 

 

The fact that American right wingers have allied themselves with Putin is entirely relevant. Some have gone into the closet about that since the invasion of Ukraine, but many have not changed their stripes. Tucker Carlson the grand Poobah of American right wing Putin lovers is featured often on Russia's propaganda. Tucker has the most popular cable tv show in the U.S. That is the opposite of fringe. 

 

I think you're very wrong to discount this connection. We see it in other countries right wing's too, such as France, Hungary, etc. 

 

No Support: Russia’s “Gay Propaganda” Law Imperils LGBT Youth | HRW

Unbelievable garbage, sound familiar. Gutfeld has a slot open for Angry gay guy.

[Jingthing]

5 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

 

Unbelievable garbage, sound familiar. Gutfeld has a slot open for Angry gay guy.

Pass

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

 Can any of the experts on this bill point to the exact part/direct quote from this anti grooming bill that states "don't say gay"?

After a long line of increasingly bold disinformation campaigns from the same media that is attacking this bill, I am wary the don't say gay narrative is also totally fallacious. 

 

 Luckily my kids and grandkids are grown up now. But if I had a 4  or 5 year old that was being groomed/sexualized by "teachers" I would have been somewhat peeved. To put it mildly. 

Obviously you are attempting to flame this topic by calling this a grooming bill. Do you even know the definition? Child molestation is obviously ALREADY illegal in all 50 states. Also talking about sexualizing young children is simply a right wing red herring.. Unless you actually believe that a teacher being kind and inclusive to a child with two Mommies is grooming or sexualizing.

 

Again this bill and the copycats is about erasing speech about LGBT people and history in ALL GRADES with vicious intimidation tactics / threats of lawsuits / threats of firings  

 

 

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/understanding-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill/

 

 

 

 

[Longwood50]

If someone needs to know why such a law is necessary, this story was posted on the internet today.  Now why the H is the teacher preaching such nonsense to children He should be fired for both inappropriate subject matter as well as spreading absolute lies. 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/04/11/watch-teacher-tells-kindergartners-when-babies-born-doctors-guess-whether-the-baby-a-boy-or-girl/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR05gBBebV9tOBO1vUL8Mr_72MF60cEfKI292w9lg1yVA7xuyBYFpZNUvRA

[Jingthing]

Brietbart 

Extreme right wing bias.

Teachers that might cross obviously problematic lines can already be corrected by school administrators.

These laws are totally unnecesary and only exist to pander to and excite right wing base voters.

Remember when republicans were against unnecesary laws?

[SunnyinBangrak]

41 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Obviously you are attempting to flame this topic by calling this a grooming bill. Do you even know the definition? Child molestation is obviously ALREADY illegal in all 50 states. Also talking about sexualizing young children is simply a right wing red herring.. Unless you actually believe that a teacher being kind and inclusive to a child with two Mommies is grooming or sexualizing.

 

Again this bill and the copycats is about erasing speech about LGBT people and history in ALL GRADES with vicious intimidation tactics / threats of lawsuits / threats of firings  

 

 

https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/law-and-life/understanding-floridas-dont-say-gay-bill/

 

 

 

 

err.. I missed the part where you pointed out exactly where the bill says "don't say gay". Are you confirming the whole "don't say gay" is yet another in a long long line of disinformation campaigns by the left leaning mainstream media? Certainly looking that way.

 

as for your "Obviously you are attempting to flame this topic" canard, it is clear that the left are inflaming emotions around a sensible anti-grooming bill by falsely claiming it is discriminatory against the LGBT community. Again, let's try keeping things based in reality rather than making false and inflammatory claims- such as your claim the bill is a "don't say gay" bill, which we have confirmed is 100% nonsense.