Kids v no kids

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:18 PM, JBChiangRai said:

If you’ve never had kids, you don’t have the capacity to understand how it changes you.

Rubbish.

I lived with a woman that had a couple for a few years. Long enough to KNOW that I didn't want any of my own.

 

I also know that having kids doesn't automatically make one love them. Plenty of bad parents in the world. Some neglect them or even beat them to death.

 

Be happy that your parenting experience is positive, but understand that for many it isn't. My own parents were not good parents and it's just as well I didn't have any kids as I might have also been a bad parent, like them.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:48 PM, BritManToo said:

I've had lots of pets, they lived a life of ease, no unspeakable suffering for them.

Can't say my parents/grandparents lived lives of unspeakable suffering either.

 

For me,

A few sad times, some dull periods, but nothing ever unspeakable.

You were lucky then.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 4/23/2022 at 12:20 AM, spidermike007 said:

Having kids is a perfectly fine thing to do with your life, if you feel really compelled. 

 

Not having kids was likely the wisest decision I ever made in this lifetime. Why? 

 

1. The world does not need more kids.

2. They are an enormous responsibility. 

3. Everyone assumes their kid is going to be healthy. I have seen couples deal with kids that were born with, or developed dreadful health complications, that literally tore their lives apart. 

4. The art of parenting has been largely lost. So, many kids these days are raised without a sense of direction, and discipline. 

5. I think kids are generally over rated. They are just small people. Some are very cute. Some are well behaved. Some are monsters. 

 

I could go on for hours. It is very subjective. Just my two cents worth. 

Excellent post. Some on here think children are wonderful, but my recollection of other children when  I was one is that some are just horrible, and most are just getting through childhood as best they can.

I think that some people when they have kids lose their capacity to see that their children are not perfect.

Is there such a thing as the "art of parenting"? Far as I can see most parents don't have a clue, and just muddle through as best they can. If very lucky their kids are nice. Most of the kids that people I know have are spoiled in some way, either by being given too much or too little emotional care.

 

Quote

5. I think kids are generally over rated.

End quote.

I couldn't have said it better. IMO nothing is more tiresome than a parent that lets a child rule their life. I had friends that I stopped visiting because their children were so revolting, but they were oblivious to how obnoxious their kids were, or perhaps they were, but unwilling to rectify the situation.

 

The two children of the woman I lived with were ruined by the time I met their mother by living with an abusive father till she left him. I knew nothing about parenting, so regret to say that I didn't make things better, but their mother didn't help either as she preferred her career to being with her children. One of the reasons I left her in the end was because she was just using me as a baby sitter.

 

When I was training as a nurse the children's ward was an eye opener about sick children and their parents. Of course people care about their children, but some become so obsessed with the sick child that they neglect the healthy ones with long lasting psychological effects.

 

For sure there are too many people on the planet. The best thing we can do to "save" the planet is to have less or no children.

 

I have too many regrets in a life lived to the fullest I was capable of having, but not having kids is thankfully not one of them.

[Rampant Rabbit]

On 4/21/2022 at 7:01 AM, Nurseynutcase said:

Looking at the state of the world over the past twenty years - would you really want to bring a child into this world?

 

I cannot understand why adoption isn't easier as there are so many orphaned children needing a good home to get a good start in life.

So true but they sure dont make it  easy,  Thailand  loss not  mine.

[Rampant Rabbit]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I think that some people when they have kids lose their capacity to see that their children are not perfect.

yeah and theyre  just "expressing themsleves"  when what they need is a  good  whack, ah thall  get members  all riled up , It  will  become beating the living shtie out of them for sure by the time theyve  finished..........pah go right ahead, tell me  their thankful I never  had  kids  blah blah etc etc. Too  many of the little  buggers doing what they want with zero parental control, screaming, shouting,  running round  stores, touching stuff they shouldnt be. Uncontrolled  little  brats who take it to adulthood then shoot their drinking buddy to death or  kill their wives cuz they threatened to leave.

[thaibeachlovers]

53 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

yeah and theyre  just "expressing themsleves"  when what they need is a  good  whack, ah thall  get members  all riled up , It  will  become beating the living shtie out of them for sure by the time theyve  finished..........pah go right ahead, tell me  their thankful I never  had  kids  blah blah etc etc. Too  many of the little  buggers doing what they want with zero parental control, screaming, shouting,  running round  stores, touching stuff they shouldnt be. Uncontrolled  little  brats who take it to adulthood then shoot their drinking buddy to death or  kill their wives cuz they threatened to leave.

Don't get me started on the "no smacking" insanity that's IMO making monsters out of children!

Sure, it went too far back in my youth- teachers caning because a pupil got the answer wrong etc, but brats behaving badly because they know they can't be punished at all isn't making the world a better place.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't get me started on the "no smacking" insanity that's IMO making monsters out of children!

Sure, it went too far back in my youth- teachers caning because a pupil got the answer wrong etc, but brats behaving badly because they know they can't be punished at all isn't making the world a better place.

There are other ways to get Children to behave , rather than hitting them .

Hitting people is wrong  whether they be adults or Children .

I always look on on bewilderment when adults hit Children and tell them to stop hitting other Children because its wrong and bad to hit people......................said whilst hitting the child .

   Teach the Child that its wrong to hit people.......................by hitting them !!!!!!!!!

[BritManToo]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't get me started on the "no smacking" insanity that's IMO making monsters out of children!

Sure, it went too far back in my youth- teachers caning because a pupil got the answer wrong etc, but brats behaving badly because they know they can't be punished at all isn't making the world a better place.

I've never had to hit any of my 6 children.

A stern voice has always been enough.

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Don't get me started on the "no smacking" insanity that's IMO making monsters out of children!

Sure, it went too far back in my youth- teachers caning because a pupil got the answer wrong etc, but brats behaving badly because they know they can't be punished at all isn't making the world a better place.

Yeah but in the  mind of  many you are  now a child  beating maniac, however I agree  with you entirely

[Rampant Rabbit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I've never had to hit any of my 6 children.

A stern voice has always been enough.

Good  for you, all  kids are  different.

[JackGats]

"It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place." (David Benatar)

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There are other ways to get Children to behave , rather than hitting them .

Hitting people is wrong  whether they be adults or Children .

I always look on on bewilderment when adults hit Children and tell them to stop hitting other Children because its wrong and bad to hit people......................said whilst hitting the child .

   Teach the Child that its wrong to hit people.......................by hitting them !!!!!!!!!

You mean like send them to a  quiet  space .............. or the naughty step.........yeah that works????

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

There are other ways to get Children to behave , rather than hitting them .

Hitting people is wrong  whether they be adults or Children .

I always look on on bewilderment when adults hit Children and tell them to stop hitting other Children because its wrong and bad to hit people......................said whilst hitting the child .

   Teach the Child that its wrong to hit people.......................by hitting them !!!!!!!!!

Lovely  in a perfect world, but it aint perfect.

[peter zwart]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:20 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

I have no kids and I don't want any kids. Here are some reasons.

 

If I would have kids then I would try to do my best for my kids. That includes good parental care, good school, a house with a garden, etc.

 

Kids, especially in Thailand, are very expensive. Spending 1 million THB per year or even more for one child in a good school is not unusual.

I think kids should grow up in a house with a garden, maybe in a quiet street, something like that. Up country that is easy, in Bangkok that is very expensive.

I don't think it is a good idea to let the grand parents look after the children all the time. But it seems that is what happens in Thailand a lot. Is that great for the kids? I have my doubts.

I am sure if I would have a pretty girl as my child I would worry a lot. I know some fathers who bring their girls everywhere with a car because they don't want that the girls are alone on the streets.

I know lots of fathers with kids and an ex. They still pay for them but often the kids don't want to see the father and/or don't like the father.

 

If someone really likes kids and is ready to spend lots of time with the kids and is able to afford them and has a loving wife then please go ahead. If not then don't.

And don't have children with the idea in the back of your head that they will take care of you when you are old. They won't! Or ar least you can't rely on the fact that they want to take care of you.

As a father of 2 wonderful girls i can say that i didnt want to miss it. But is it always roseflower and sunshine? No way. They cost me a few years of my live. But for me its worth it. It brings live in me with all the ups and downs. But now they are on their own feet and im happy that i dont have that responsibility anymore and live as a free man again and enjoy life in Thailand.

[Mac Mickmanus]

34 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

You mean like send them to a  quiet  space .............. or the naughty step.........yeah that works????

Well , if you are in a restaurant out to eat ,  tell them that this isn't a playground and that they need to sit down and behave themselves and no running around and if they misbehave then tell them that we would be going straight home  and nothing to eat that evening . 

   Give them a choice , either sit down and keep quiet and order your food , or go home hungry and follow through with threat .

   Leave the restaurant and go home and let them know that we all went home because they misbehaved and the next time it happens , just ask them whether they want to sit down and behave or go home .

   Give them a choice . 

  They then know that restaurants are not playgrounds and they need to sit at the table and behave themselves  

[Rampant Rabbit]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well , if you are in a restaurant out to eat ,  tell them that this isn't a playground and that they need to sit down and behave themselves and no running around and if they misbehave then tell them that we would be going straight home  and nothing to eat that evening . 

   Give them a choice , either sit down and keep quiet and order your food , or go home hungry and follow through with threat .

   Leave the restaurant and go home and let them know that we all went home because they misbehaved and the next time it happens , just ask them whether they want to sit down and behave or go home .

   Give them a choice . 

  They then know that restaurants are not playgrounds and they need to sit at the table and behave themselves  

Oh I agree entirely  but sometimes its  not  enough, more to the point though its the parents that need the smack.

[Sparktrader]

11 minutes ago, Rampant Rabbit said:

Oh I agree entirely  but sometimes its  not  enough, more to the point though its the parents that need the smack.

Bogan parents swear at kids, feed them junk food

[spidermike007]

12 hours ago, starky said:

Yes kids arent necessary. Oh except for survival of the species of course. There is that. 

Well, most scientists will attest to the fact that if an individual exercises their right to not reproduce, it will not have much effect on the population of the planet. Many nations are seeing their birth rates dropping. That is a good thing. The last thing this world needs is another billion or so people. 

 

I love the statement the Russ Cohle character made in the 1st season of True Detective. Though a very dark series, it is some of the best TV, I have even seen in this lifetime. This statement is not my personal belief. However, slowing down population growth can lead to nothing but positivity for the planet. 

 

"I think human consciousness is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self aware. Nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself. We are creatures what should not exist, by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self, a secretion of sensory experience and feeling programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. I think the honorable thing for our species to do is to deny our programming. Stop reproducing. Walk hand and hand into extinction. One last midnight, brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal". 
 

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post. Some on here think children are wonderful, but my recollection of other children when  I was one is that some are just horrible, and most are just getting through childhood as best they can.

I think that some people when they have kids lose their capacity to see that their children are not perfect.

Is there such a thing as the "art of parenting"? Far as I can see most parents don't have a clue, and just muddle through as best they can. If very lucky their kids are nice. Most of the kids that people I know have are spoiled in some way, either by being given too much or too little emotional care.

 

Quote

5. I think kids are generally over rated.

End quote.

I couldn't have said it better. IMO nothing is more tiresome than a parent that lets a child rule their life. I had friends that I stopped visiting because their children were so revolting, but they were oblivious to how obnoxious their kids were, or perhaps they were, but unwilling to rectify the situation.

 

The two children of the woman I lived with were ruined by the time I met their mother by living with an abusive father till she left him. I knew nothing about parenting, so regret to say that I didn't make things better, but their mother didn't help either as she preferred her career to being with her children. One of the reasons I left her in the end was because she was just using me as a baby sitter.

 

When I was training as a nurse the children's ward was an eye opener about sick children and their parents. Of course people care about their children, but some become so obsessed with the sick child that they neglect the healthy ones with long lasting psychological effects.

 

For sure there are too many people on the planet. The best thing we can do to "save" the planet is to have less or no children.

 

I have too many regrets in a life lived to the fullest I was capable of having, but not having kids is thankfully not one of them.

Good points. And I would go so far as to say most kids are highly over rated by their own parents, who seem to lose all objectivity about them. Especially when around others! 

[RafPinto]

I just can talk from my own experience.
The birth of my lovely daughter was the best thing ever happened to me.
She's a teenager now.
She keeps me fit and "young".
Wouldn't want to be without her.
Yes, good education is expensive but hey, I want to give her the best options possible.
Love her to bits.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Well , if you are in a restaurant out to eat ,  tell them that this isn't a playground and that they need to sit down and behave themselves and no running around and if they misbehave then tell them that we would be going straight home  and nothing to eat that evening . 

   Give them a choice , either sit down and keep quiet and order your food , or go home hungry and follow through with threat .

   Leave the restaurant and go home and let them know that we all went home because they misbehaved and the next time it happens , just ask them whether they want to sit down and behave or go home .

   Give them a choice . 

  They then know that restaurants are not playgrounds and they need to sit at the table and behave themselves  

You are referring to both the art of parenting and the concept of discipline. I see so many parents who have none of the former, and are totally unwilling to exercise the latter. It can make being around those monsters quite an unpleasant experience. Especially at the cinema! 

[LaosLover]

3 hours ago, JackGats said:

"It is curious that while good people go to great lengths to spare their children from suffering, few of them seem to notice that the one (and only) guaranteed way to prevent all the suffering of their children is not to bring those children into existence in the first place." (David Benatar)

Yeah, but I'm not dodging them for their own theoretical well being or to save the planet.

 

I'm dodging them so I can have a few laughs and not have to give them any money.

[richard_smith237]

17 hours ago, Golden Triangle said:

17 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Yawn...  'my kids were well behaved, kids these days are not because the parenting was better in my day.... !!!'

 

Totally flawed thinking: Firstly, everyone thinks their kids are well behaved, every parent probably gets complimented to some extent when their child is behaving well.

Kids these days are no better or poorly behaved than previous generations, we just don’t notice the well behaved ones so much, we do notice the misbehaving ones. 

 

How many times have you got off a flight and thought, wow - there 29 kids on that plane and they were all really well behaved - just one of them was a PITA...  Or do you get off the plan and thing ‘Damn kids, in my day they were seen and not heard’... 

 

 

And for the record - Parents these days do teach their kids manners. 

My Son has two of his school friends round, they are polite, please & thank-yous, excuse-me’s...  generally well behaved, also boisterous and loud because they are 8 years old and having a great time !... 

 

Perhaps to counter your comments it should be stated: Why do all the guys turn into grumpy old men????....  

 

Of course, thats not true either... its only the grumpy old men we hear and read whinging about kids these days.... ????

 

 

I would like to send your post to my Thai next door neighbours, their 10 year old daughter screeches from the moment she wakes up till she sleeps, I don't need that sort of <deleted> in my life.

Sounds like a nightmare...   but that does not mean this ‘generation’ of kids is any worse than the previous generation. 

 

Most children I know are well behaved, parents have a good level of control and have taught them well.

 

But, I don’t expect seen and not heard - I expect children to take part in our lives, to have conversations with us in restaurants etc... obviously don’t misbehave and make unnecessary noise etc.. the same could be argued of adults who can’t behave. 

 

Kids, mostly are very well behaved. It is just a very small minority we notice and if someone is a grumpy old fart and is looking for their confirmation bias that kids are a PITA, then he will find it because no one is perfect, kids or adults. 

[Sparktrader]

Kids are more brainwashed these days. Social media.

[Sparktrader]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post. Some on here think children are wonderful, but my recollection of other children when  I was one is that some are just horrible, and most are just getting through childhood as best they can.

I think that some people when they have kids lose their capacity to see that their children are not perfect.

Is there such a thing as the "art of parenting"? Far as I can see most parents don't have a clue, and just muddle through as best they can. If very lucky their kids are nice. Most of the kids that people I know have are spoiled in some way, either by being given too much or too little emotional care.

 

Quote

5. I think kids are generally over rated.

End quote.

I couldn't have said it better. IMO nothing is more tiresome than a parent that lets a child rule their life. I had friends that I stopped visiting because their children were so revolting, but they were oblivious to how obnoxious their kids were, or perhaps they were, but unwilling to rectify the situation.

 

The two children of the woman I lived with were ruined by the time I met their mother by living with an abusive father till she left him. I knew nothing about parenting, so regret to say that I didn't make things better, but their mother didn't help either as she preferred her career to being with her children. One of the reasons I left her in the end was because she was just using me as a baby sitter.

 

When I was training as a nurse the children's ward was an eye opener about sick children and their parents. Of course people care about their children, but some become so obsessed with the sick child that they neglect the healthy ones with long lasting psychological effects.

 

For sure there are too many people on the planet. The best thing we can do to "save" the planet is to have less or no children.

 

I have too many regrets in a life lived to the fullest I was capable of having, but not having kids is thankfully not one of them.

I regret 3 things. 

 

1 Not buying Cochlear at $4

2 Not buying Bitcoin at 3c

3 Not having a kid (still might)

[richard_smith237]

23 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Kids are more brainwashed these days. Social media.

Kids ???....    what age are you referring to ?? - Teens ?

 

Young kids have no interest in social media....   and while teens may be influenced by what their peers are up to on social media, they are still more influenced by their parents and teachers.

 

Now... brain washing by social media - How many people have had most of their news and information from social media - info and debates on Covid ? so many idiots brainwashed by dumb s#it on social media - but of course, a dumb comment itself would be to suggest ‘Adults are brainwashed by social media’.... its equally daft to suggest ‘kids are’ in a sweeping generalisation. 

 

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Kids ???....    what age are you referring to ?? - Teens ?

 

Young kids have no interest in social media....   and while teens may be influenced by what their peers are up to on social media, they are still more influenced by their parents and teachers.

 

Now... brain washing by social media - How many people have had most of their news and information from social media - info and debates on Covid ? so many idiots brainwashed by dumb s#it on social media - but of course, a dumb comment itself would be to suggest ‘Adults are brainwashed by social media’.... its equally daft to suggest ‘kids are’ in a sweeping generalisation. 

 

10yos have internet

[richard_smith237]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You are referring to both the art of parenting and the concept of discipline. I see so many parents who have none of the former, and are totally unwilling to exercise the latter. It can make being around those monsters quite an unpleasant experience. Especially at the cinema! 

Most parents have it neatly tied up...  Both the ‘art of parenting and reasonable discipline’. 

 

I think some don’t, and they stand out which is why some start to think ‘many’ are doing a poor job - I think this is just confirmation bias. 

 

If we went to a shopping mall and looked around for families with happy well behaving kids we would see a lot more than those with naughty kids - it just doesn’t stand out, thats all. 

 

The problem as you mentioned - ’the monster’... it takes just one monster on a flight, in a cinema or in a restaurant to impact the experience. 

 

But, I don’t recall the last time a child was a PITA in a restaurant, and it been a long while since I recall a child being irritating on a flight.

 

 

 

[Rampant Rabbit]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Good points. And I would go so far as to say most kids are highly over rated by their own parents, who seem to lose all objectivity about them. Especially when around others! 

You  only  have to  look at facebook  comments  where some of the ugliest stupidest people show themselves  off and their friends  put comments  like "beautiful  couple" or "you  look stunning babe" when the face  looks  like an overinflated marshmellow lipped  profanity, christ it makes me  laugh

[spidermike007]

Just now, Rampant Rabbit said:

You  only  have to  look at facebook  comments  where some of the ugliest stupidest people show themselves  off and their friends  put comments  like "beautiful  couple" or "you  look stunning babe" when the face  looks  like an overinflated marshmellow lipped  profanity, christ it makes me  laugh

Did you see the Oscars? Alot of big, overweight women, wearing very revealing dresses, and doing it with pride. Celebrating hugeness and fat. That is what they do in America.