Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[KhunLA]

9 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

As I remember, I ran the numbers with the MG EV you have vs the ICE version of the same model and the results were pretty similar. 

 

Saw that, and replied to it.   Similar to what ?

I saved ฿47.8k the first year owning on petrol, and half our kms were out & about.

9 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I can tell you almost exactly how much, since I owned both the MG ZS EV & ICE.

Local driving of 360 kms, kWh & petrol cost:

 

MG ZS EV / ICE
฿231 / ฿925  per 360 kms
 

EV using 46.3kwh @ ฿5 per kWh

... high #, as nobody pays that much

... ฿347 if have to use CS @ ฿7.5 per kWh

 

ICE using 25.71 L of 91 @ ฿36 per Liter

... less than yesterday's price

 

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

The Neta V is directly comparable to the Mitsubishi Mirage, similar price although the Neta V is bigger.

 

Give me that choice and I would take the Neta V in a heartbeat.

And none of that hp & torque @ 4000 & 6000 rpm BS

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[JBChiangRai]

If I am honest, the Neta V would probably be a much more sensible choice for me than my BYD Seal Performance.

 

But when has motoring ever been about being sensible.  Last week there was a Ford Mustang 5.0 next to me at the traffic lights and signaled me to gun it, I left him for dead off the line, fortunately the next lights 300m down the road were at red and I resumed OAP mode.

[KhunLA]

10 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

If I am honest, the Neta V would probably be a much more sensible choice for me than my BYD Seal Performance.

 

But when has motoring ever been about being sensible.  Last week there was a Ford Mustang 5.0 next to me at the traffic lights and signaled me to gun it, I left him for dead off the line, fortunately the next lights 300m down the road were at red and I resumed OAP mode.

If the Neta V had arrived a wee bit earlier and I didn't have an 'iffy back',  the Neta V would have been a good choice for local driving, and we would have simply kept the MG ZS ICE for O&As ... maybe.

 

Getting in the lower siting sedans, really isn't that comfortable for me.  I was seriously considering the MG EP, but wife wasn't having it.   Got use to the higher seating position of the ZS, a good thing for me.  Added plus, the ZS having LFP battery chemistry 👍 so all work out for the best.

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[Pib]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

I can tell you almost exactly how much, since I owned both the MG ZS EV & ICE.

Local driving of 360 kms, kWh & petrol cost:

 

MG ZS EV / ICE
฿231 / ฿925  per 360 kms
 

EV using 46.3kwh @ ฿5 per kWh

... high #, as nobody pays that much

... ฿347 if have to use CS @ ฿7.5 per kWh

 

ICE using 25.71 L of 91 @ ฿36 per Liter

... less than yesterday's price

 

Just a point where I bolded one of the statements above where no one pays that much....as in Bt5 (per KWH) I assume the statement to mean. 

 

Actually Bt5 per KWH is a very close number (actually a hair low right now with the current Ft rate) to what a typical person pays in total cost per  KWH for each additional KWH they use at home like in charging an EV if they have electric service in their own name or don't have solar...and most people don't have solar.   And of course a person don't pay some inflated landlord rate for electricity like we periodically see on AseanNow....like some folks paying around Bt9/KWH.

 

Now some people may also have a TOU meter and charge late at night which would lower the KWH cost well below Bt5/KWH---down to around Bt3/KWH--or if they mess-up and charge during the most of the day it would raise it to over Bt6/KWH.  But once again, most people don't have a TOU meter based on what I see in my Bangkok moobaan of hundreds of standalone homes, the Thai family/friends moobaans in the provinces, etc...but I will admit when people need to add a second electric meter/lines to their home in order to install an EV wall charger and they can always charge during off peak hours (10pm-9am) a TOU meter could lower charging cost down to around Bt3/KWH vs the more typical approx Bt5/KWH.

 

Example using the PEA monthly electric service calculator (or MEA calculator) which gives accurate cost to the satang.

- Total cost per month if using a total of 400KWH/month before buying/not charging an EV: Bt1,847.04   

    -- Total cost is basic rate, Ft rate, meter fee, and VAT...just every cost of a person' monthly electric bill for each additional KWH they use like for EV charging

- Total cost per month if using 446KWH (used an additional 46KWH/month to charge the EV):  Bt2,084.23 

- So, that additional 46KWH to charge the EV  cost: Bt2,084 - Bt1,847 = Bt237.   Bt237 divided by 46KWH equals Bt5.15/KWH.   And this is based on the lower Ft rate for Jan-Apr 2024 of Bt0.39/KWH.  If it had been based on the previous Ft of Bt0.20/KWH it would have been Bt4.95/KWH.  The  Ft rate that usually changes every 4 months causes the total cost per KWH to periodically change a per tenths of a baht/KWH.

 

Anyway, I think approx Bt5/KWH is very close to what most people will pay for charging at home.   Cheap compared to the cost of diesel/petrol.

 

Edited February 16 by Pib

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

 

Just a point where I bolded one of the statements above where no one pays that much....as in Bt5 (per KWH) I assume the statement to mean. 

 

Actually Bt5 per KWH is a very close number (actually a hair low right now with the current Ft rate) to what a typical person pays in total cost per  KWH for each additional KWH they use at home like in charging an EV if they have electric service in their own name or don't have solar...and most people don't have solar.   And of course a person don't pay some inflated landlord rate for electricity like we periodically see on AseanNow....like some folks paying around Bt9/KWH.

 

Now some people may also have a TOU meter and charge late at night which would lower the KWH cost well below Bt5/KWH---down to around Bt3/KWH--or if they mess-up and charge during the most of the day it would raise it to over Bt6/KWH.  But once again, most people don't have a TOU meter based on what I see in my Bangkok moobaan of hundreds of standalone homes, the Thai family/friends moobaans in the provinces, etc...but I will admit when people need to add a second electric meter/lines to their home in order to install an EV wall charger and they can always charge during off peak hours (10pm-9am) a TOU meter could lower charging cost down to around Bt3/KWH vs the more typical approx Bt5/KWH.

 

Example using the PEA monthly electric service calculator (or MEA calculator) which gives accurate cost to the satang.

- Total cost per month if using a total of 400KWH/month before buying/not charging an EV: Bt1,847.04   

    -- Total cost is basic rate, Ft rate, meter fee, and VAT...just every cost of a person' monthly electric bill for each additional KWH they use like for EV charging

- Total cost per month if using 446KWH (used an additional 46KWH/month to charge the EV):  Bt2,084.23 

- So, that additional 46KWH to charge the EV  cost: Bt2,084 - Bt1,847 = Bt237.   Bt237 divided by 46KWH equals Bt5.15/KWH.   And this is based on the lower Ft rate for Jan-Apr 2024 of Bt0.39/KWH.  If it had been based on the previous Ft of Bt0.20/KWH it would have been Bt4.95/KWH.  The  Ft rate that usually changes every 4 months causes the total cost per KWH to periodically change a per tenths of a baht/KWH.

 

Anyway, I think approx Bt5/KWH is very close to what most people will pay for charging at home.   Cheap compared to the cost of diesel/petrol.

 

Don't know about now, but we've never paid ฿5 per kWh, and think we use, abuse electric more than most.  But a nice round number.   Local driving, is about 10k kms per year for us, if all 20k were local, that would add 215 kWh a month or ฿1071, @ ฿5 / kWh, about 7.2 kWh a day.  All things being equal, with solar.

 

Still a lot better than the ฿4285 a month petrol would cost to go the same 20k kms.  EV in TH (on topic) save people a lot of money, as most drive locally anyway.    With the Neta V, cheaper than most entry level 4cyl ICEVs, that's a bargain all the way around, and out performs them all 

 

Over ฿3200 a month X 12 = ฿38,400 a year.   Unless you really need a truck, you're an idiot for having an ICEV ... IMHO  Out performs for less cost.

 

Curious, and had to check.  We use 8000 kWh last year, or 667 kWh per month, which would be an average monthly PEA bill of ฿3240 or ฿4.85 per kWh, all things being equal.  So ฿5 works pretty good, as I prefer to use negative #s, eliminates surprises.    Petrol fluctuated between ฿32-40 last year (91).   More than ฿36 now, which is the number I used above, so very generous with that number.

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[Andrew Dwyer]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

 

Just a point where I bolded one of the statements above where no one pays that much....as in Bt5 (per KWH) I assume the statement to mean. 

 

Actually Bt5 per KWH is a very close number (actually a hair low right now with the current Ft rate) to what a typical person pays in total cost per  KWH for each additional KWH they use at home like in charging an EV if they have electric service in their own name or don't have solar...and most people don't have solar.   And of course a person don't pay some inflated landlord rate for electricity like we periodically see on AseanNow....like some folks paying around Bt9/KWH.

 

Now some people may also have a TOU meter and charge late at night which would lower the KWH cost well below Bt5/KWH---down to around Bt3/KWH--or if they mess-up and charge during the most of the day it would raise it to over Bt6/KWH.  But once again, most people don't have a TOU meter based on what I see in my Bangkok moobaan of hundreds of standalone homes, the Thai family/friends moobaans in the provinces, etc...but I will admit when people need to add a second electric meter/lines to their home in order to install an EV wall charger and they can always charge during off peak hours (10pm-9am) a TOU meter could lower charging cost down to around Bt3/KWH vs the more typical approx Bt5/KWH.

 

Example using the PEA monthly electric service calculator (or MEA calculator) which gives accurate cost to the satang.

- Total cost per month if using a total of 400KWH/month before buying/not charging an EV: Bt1,847.04   

    -- Total cost is basic rate, Ft rate, meter fee, and VAT...just every cost of a person' monthly electric bill for each additional KWH they use like for EV charging

- Total cost per month if using 446KWH (used an additional 46KWH/month to charge the EV):  Bt2,084.23 

- So, that additional 46KWH to charge the EV  cost: Bt2,084 - Bt1,847 = Bt237.   Bt237 divided by 46KWH equals Bt5.15/KWH.   And this is based on the lower Ft rate for Jan-Apr 2024 of Bt0.39/KWH.  If it had been based on the previous Ft of Bt0.20/KWH it would have been Bt4.95/KWH.  The  Ft rate that usually changes every 4 months causes the total cost per KWH to periodically change a per tenths of a baht/KWH.

 

Anyway, I think approx Bt5/KWH is very close to what most people will pay for charging at home.   Cheap compared to the cost of diesel/petrol.

 

Talking about TOU the flat rate per kWh is 2.63 baht and with the usual taxes ( FT, VAT ) works out at 3.02 baht per kWh ( + a service charge of 24.62 baht ).

 

Annoyingly they don’t leave the bill in your letter box via the meter reader, you have to pay at the PEA Head Office although there is probably a way to pay electronically via their app.

But nipping down to seven to pay it is not happening.

[vinny41]

10 states with the highest number of people using electric vehicle cars

Of course, the province with the highest number of registrations is Bangkok, with 52,751 vehicles, and the province that follows in second place is Chiang Mai, with 3,083 vehicles, and in third place is Chonburi, with 2,392 vehicles.

https://www.newsdirectory3.com/analysis-of-electric-vehicle-registrations-in-thailand-and-expansion-of-charging-stations/

Phuket numbers seem low  1,039 cars and Mae Hong Son Province, 1 vehicle

[Pib]

10 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

10 states with the highest number of people using electric vehicle cars

Of course, the province with the highest number of registrations is Bangkok, with 52,751 vehicles, and the province that follows in second place is Chiang Mai, with 3,083 vehicles, and in third place is Chonburi, with 2,392 vehicles.

https://www.newsdirectory3.com/analysis-of-electric-vehicle-registrations-in-thailand-and-expansion-of-charging-stations/

Phuket numbers seem low  1,039 cars and Mae Hong Son Province, 1 vehicle

 

 

Yea, here in Bangkok metro area (which includes parts of bordering provinces) it's hard to drive much more than one kilometers (or even a few hundred meters in some cases)  before seeing an EV on the road....and it's likely to be a BYD model, Hozon Neta V, Ora Good Cat, or a Telsa....I also see quite a few MG EVs. 

 

 Heck, here in my Bangkok moobaan my particular soi which has 10 houses on it....3 of the 10 houses have EVs (2 Atto's and 1 Telsa Model Y).   And just this week one soi over from mine that house now has a new, red tag Atto parked in it's driveway.   

 

EVs taking away ICEV sales share is happening at a pretty good clip here in the Bangkok area.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

[KhunLA]

2 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Why top model of ZS EV, ad D model is ฿869k now, I think.  If not, will be next month  Just take the least expensive ICE version without the sunroof.  Which you really don't want in TH.  Also the D model @ ฿719k.

 

So ฿150k difference

Savings on petrol per year, local 20k kms of driving @ ฿38,400,

ROI 3.9 yrs on petrol alone.  

 

You forgot:

2 (10k kms) oil changes per year, ฿2k (being kind) ฿4k X 4 yrs = ฿16k 

At least 1 full tune up, ฿4j for east math, so ฿20k off that ฿150k = ฿130k now.

ROI <3.4 yrs now.   A sound investment for a better performing vehicle ... IMHO

 

If not on sale, then using ฿224k, (฿204k) and back up to 5.3 yrs 

ICE version does lack a lot of electronic tech.

 

Edited February 16 by KhunLA

[Yellowtail]

10 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Why top model of ZS EV, ad D model is ฿869k now, I think.  If not, will be next month  Just take the least expensive ICE version without the sunroof.  Which you really don't want in TH.  Also the D model @ ฿719k.

 

So ฿150k difference

Savings on petrol per year, local 20k kms of driving @ ฿38,400,

ROI 3.9 yrs on petrol alone.  

 

You forgot:

2 (10k kms) oil changes per year, ฿2k (being kind) ฿4k X 4 yrs = ฿16k 

At least 1 full tune up, ฿4j for east math, so ฿20k off that ฿150k = ฿130k now.

ROI <3.4 yrs now.   A sound investment for a better performing vehicle ... IMHO

 

If not on sale, then using ฿224k, (฿204k) and back up to 5.3 yrs 

ICE version does lack a lot of electronic tech.

 

I got the prices from the website. I might re-run the numbers with the cheapest variation of each next week when I get home. 

 

Free parts and labor service for the warranty period, four-years/120,000Km 

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 minute ago, Yellowtail said:

I got the prices from the website. I might re-run the numbers with the cheapest variation of each next week when I get home. 

 

Free parts and labor service for the warranty period, four-years/120,000Km 

I think the ZS is overpriced, simply for being a SUV, compared to MG's other BEV offerings.  Same specs as the EP, but 180k more, just for the higher seating, and SUV 'styling', to be kind.  I like it better, but 180k is a bit silly.   Then you got the MG4, better spec'd, cheaper or same price if ZS on sale, if the MG4 isn't on sale.

 

The EP is about same or cheaper than some top end entry models, 'made in TH'.  

EP / ฿771k vs Mazda 2 top model @ ฿799k ... that's just silly.  For 70k more, you can have the MG4, not even on sale, cheaper if it is on sale.  Performance wise, no ICEV in those price ranges can even come close.

 

Sucks if you can't charge at home, or CS is too inconvenient.   Lotus's has CSs now, so how easy is that once a week.  Or popping into a mall.   

[Pib]

Cost comparisons are great...can really help a person make a final decision.   Personally I do cost comparisons for all types of things....I have done such all my life on many things I have bought or thinking about buying, investing in, etc.,....and I try to do apple-to-apple comparison as much as possible although that can get kinda hard to do sometimes depending on what type of product/service I'm costing-out, tangibles & intangibles involved, desires vs real needs, etc.   Me and spreadsheet software are good buddies.   And I can tell Yellowtail and spreadsheets are great buddies also....a really good spreadsheet he provided....thanks.

 

But I just use that cost comparison as one factor in my decision and how much weight the cost comparison carries will vary.  Each person will be different in that aspect.  Sometimes the cost comparison may clearly show buying product X appears to be a better deal than product Y "cost-wise" but I still end-up buying product Y because I simply "desire/want/like" product Y.   Maybe call it attraction, which equally beautiful girl you end-up marrying, deciding between the top of line Apple phone or Samsung phone, etc.   And since the products X & Y cost comparison came out fairly close, I still feel comfortable in my selection in those cases where I pick the more expensive product/service.   

 

Yeap, cost comparisons are great...many people use them all the time (like me)...they are "a" key factor in making a decision but not the "only" factor.

 

As I mentioned in an early post at this stage of EV vs ICEV, ICEV vehicles still have the overall cost/price advantage but that is steadily changing.  IMO mankind's future will definitely have a lot more EVs in comparison to ICEVs....it's a technology change that's not going to stop.   Kinda like the transition from horse & buggy to motorized vehicles....that trend went on for decades.  How many decades it takes to happen for the ICEV to EV transition will surely take several decades more...and how long it takes will be impacted by anecdotal evidence, climate change, advances in fuel technologies & batteries, wars, unexpected events, etc.....but the transition will not be stopped.   How many horse & buggies have you seen on the road lately?

 

Edited February 17 by Pib

[JBChiangRai]

15 minutes ago, Pib said:

equally beautiful girl you end-up marrying, deciding between the top of line Apple phone or Samsung phone

 

As I mentioned in an early post at this stage of EV vs ICEV, ICEV vehicles still have the overall cost/price advantage but that is steadily changing.  IMO mankind's future will definitely have a lot more EVs in comparison to ICEVs....it's a technology change that's not going to stop.   Kinda like the transition from horse & buggy to motorized vehicles....that trend went on for decades.  How many decades it takes to happen for the ICEV to EV transition will surely take several decades more...and how long it takes will be impacted by anecdotal evidence, climate change, advances in fuel technologies & batteries, wars, unexpected events, etc.....but the transition will not be stopped.   How many horse & buggies have you seen on the road lately?

 

 

Go for the top of the line phone every time, much better financial decision than marrying the beautiful girl (I assume that's what you meant).

 

I am not sure I agree that ICEV have the cost benefit.  I can think of a few BEV's much cheaper to own than ICE equivalent...

 

MG EP+ vs Toyota Altis/Honda Civic

Neta V vs Mitsubishi Mirage

Seal Dynamic vs Toyota Camry/Honda Accord

 

I think all these cars are probably in the same segment.

[Yellowtail]

My position has not changed. 

 

The best reason to buy a new car is because you want a new car, and the best car to buy is the one you like the best in your price range. 

 

I would not buy a shirt I did not like because it was cheaper than a shirt I liked, or because it was cheaper to launder, nor would I pick a car that way. 

 

My only reason for doing cost justification is because I like doing it, and because I think it silly to buy a new car because you think it will save you money, because nine times out of ten it will not. 

 

I have to buy a car for my boy in the next six months and I may get a new EV and give him the Fortuner. I will likely decide at the car show in April where I hope to drive a few, though I am leaning towards the Tesla.

 

 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

The best reason to buy a new car is because you want a new car, and the best car to buy is the one you like the best in your price range. 

 

...  I think it silly to buy a new car because you think it will save you money, because nine times out of ten it will not. 

Agreed.   If money was a concern, I wouldn't own a car, as we simply don't need one.   Last 6 ish weeks proved that, as without one, and the MB was more than enough for our transport needs.

 

Many people's biggest financial mistake, buying one, outside their price range.  Worse if financing at silly interest rate.   

 

A plus that EVs in TH, lessen the cost to operate, but if you buy new every few years, no matter what vehicle, then not getting one's value out of , and hopefully, buying with spare money.  

 

Happy Shopping, though I don't think I'd go with a Tesla.  Still liking the Atto 3, unless set on a sedan.  Then the Seal is looking really good.

Edited February 17 by KhunLA

[motdaeng]

8 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

My only reason for doing cost justification is because I like doing it, and because I think it silly to buy a new car because you think it will save you money, because nine times out of ten it will not. 

 

" .... I think it silly to buy a new car because you think it will save you money, because nine times out of ten it will not ..."

 

that might have been the reality 30 years ago, as obtaining independent and accurate information about

cars was quite challenging. however, that's not the situation today. if someone like to save some money

and buys the "wrong" car nowadays, the main fault lies with the buyers who didn't do their homework properly.

or those who are not financially savvy!

 

 

[macahoom]

 

A Changan Deepal drove past me in Khao Lak yesterday.

 

Same old boring SUV shape, but there was something special about it. I'd love to see it up close but, from what I could see, it looked fantastic. 

[KhunLA]

1 hour ago, motdaeng said:

 

" .... I think it silly to buy a new car because you think it will save you money, because nine times out of ten it will not ..."

 

that might have been the reality 30 years ago, as obtaining independent and accurate information about

cars was quite challenging. however, that's not the situation today. if someone like to save some money

and buys the "wrong" car nowadays, the main fault lies with the buyers who didn't do their homework properly.

or those who are not financially savvy!

Agree, depends on a few factors.  For us, only owning an ICEV for 2 year, and probably the period of the most depreciation, it wouldn't make sense to sell and buy a new car.   BUT ... getting a govt incentive, on new EV, along with having solar, then the incentive and never buying petrol again offsets any present or future depreciation of the ICEV, and saves money everyday after on operating cost.  

 

Selling and buying new made complete sense and saved, will save quite a bit of money.   Even with no solar, it would be the right thing to do.  And .. you get to drive a much better performing car.

[motdaeng]

24 minutes ago, macahoom said:

 

A Changan Deepal drove past me in Khao Lak yesterday.

 

Same old boring SUV shape, but there was something special about it. I'd love to see it up close but, from what I could see, it looked fantastic. 

 

i was impressed by the interior quality of the deepal car, which even features an automatic sunshade (the suv only).

however, i don't like the design of the taillights; they look odd to me. also, the performance figures

aren't quite up to what i prefer to have ...

 

Edited February 18 by motdaeng

[JBChiangRai]

12 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i was impressed by the interior quality of the deepal car, which even features an automatic sunshade (the suv only).

however, i don't like the design of the taillights; they look odd to me. also, the performance figures

aren't quite up to what i prefer to have ...

 

 

I think the base Deepal Saloon is a superior car to the base Seal with more interesting colours available.

Edited February 18 by JBChiangRai
Spellong

[macahoom]

12 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

Edited just now by JBChiangRai
Spellong

 

Not quite woken up yet, JB?

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think the base Deepal Saloon is a superior car to the base Sea with more interesting colours available.

Saw my first Deepal dealership yesterday.

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, macahoom said:

 

Not quite woken up yet, JB?

 

I haven't had my coffee yet, battery depleted, no torque available

[macahoom]

19 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I think the base Deepal Saloon is a superior car to the base Seal with more interesting colours available.

 

Yeh, the SUV one I saw yesterday was Cosmic Yellow and I loved it!

Edited February 18 by macahoom

[Pib]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Saw my first Deepal dealership yesterday.

 

Yea...not many Changan dealerships across Thailand "yet"....a total of 27 showrooms/generals service centers in 15 provinces according to the Changan Thailand website below. 

https://www.changan.co.th/en/dealer/

 

And of the 15 provinces wither dealerships most of those provinces only have one dealership....but places like Bangkok have 5 of the 27 dealerships, neighboring Samut Prakan 3 of the 27, neighboring Phatun Thani 3 of the 27, Chonburi 3 of the 27.....or said another way a little over half  of the 27 dealerships are currently concentrated in/around the greater Bangkok area. 

 

In comparison to BYD which has 101 dealerships those dealerships have much better coverage across Thailand in more provinces but a large number of their 101 dealerships are located in the greater Bangkok area.  

https://www.reverautomotive.com/en/locator/dealer-station

 

 

 

[VocalNeal]

Oh Wow. Another Chinese EV manufacturer I've never heard of. 🧐

[transam]

7 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Oh Wow. Another Chinese EV manufacturer I've never heard of. 🧐

Interesting video.......

 

 

[Pib]

18 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Oh Wow. Another Chinese EV manufacturer I've never heard of. 🧐

"....never heard of...." does not mean they are not a big and/or known auto manufacturing company...and there is even a Changan-Ford partnership.  See to Wiki snapshots below.  Their vehicles sold in many countries.

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changan_Automobile

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changan_Ford

Edited February 18 by Pib