Electric Vehicles in Thailand

[JBChiangRai]

10 hours ago, JBChiangRai said:

Does your OBD device give you battery SoH?

 

10 hours ago, Pib said:

No....or at least I haven't seen it anywhere. 

 

Probably the range available on full charge will be the best indicator.  When you come to sell at a few years old, potential buyers will want to see that.

 

2 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

You can bet that governments will start to tax EV users more aggressively to make up for lost fuel taxes.

 

The advance of tech will make things like road use pricing much easier to implement. 

 

As EV adoption ticks up, the subsidised incentives to own are going to evaporate faster than water on a Bangkok pavement in April (bringing this back to EVs in Thailand).

 

I expect that to happen in the UK/EU but a few years away, I doubt we will see it in Thailand in the next 10-20 years.

 

It's not really possible to tax the fuel for EV's because we charge at home, government practice will be to increase the taxes on fuel and polluting vehicles to encourage people to switch to EV, it's likely to be both fuel tax and annual road tax.  They will gradually make it uneconomical to run an ICE vehicle.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

 

Probably the range available on full charge will be the best indicator.  When you come to sell at a few years old, potential buyers will want to see that.

 

 

I expect that to happen in the UK/EU but a few years away, I doubt we will see it in Thailand in the next 10-20 years.

 

It's not really possible to tax the fuel for EV's because we charge at home, government practice will be to increase the taxes on fuel and polluting vehicles to encourage people to switch to EV, it's likely to be both fuel tax and annual road tax.  They will gradually make it uneconomical to run an ICE vehicle.

Taxing ICE wouldn't happen as that impacts business which in turn increase's inflation

more likely to increase road tax on ev's to include an amount for loss fuel revenue

[JBChiangRai]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Taxing ICE wouldn't happen as that impacts business which in turn increase's inflation

more likely to increase road tax on ev's to include an amount for loss fuel revenue

 

Quite the opposite until EV adoption is unstoppable.  The governments "WANT" people to switch to EV

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, BKKBike09 said:

You can bet that governments will start to tax EV users more aggressively to make up for lost fuel taxes.

 

The advance of tech will make things like road use pricing much easier to implement. 

 

As EV adoption ticks up, the subsidised incentives to own are going to evaporate faster than water on a Bangkok pavement in April (bringing this back to EVs in Thailand).

When you look at EV 3.0 subsidy finished 31st December 2023 B150,000 vs current  EV 3.0 subsidy B100,000

and then take into account BYD price reductions on 2023 models of B250,000 

The cost of buying a 2023 model BYD in 2024 must have been cheaper under current  EV 3.0 subsidy B100,000 than last years EV 3.0 subsidy

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

Quite the opposite until EV adoption is unstoppable.  The governments "WANT" people to switch to EV

I think you will find they don't want people to switch regardless of cost

and they have extended the incentive scheme for hybrid manufacturer for 2 more years

[KhunLA]

50 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think you will find they don't want people to switch regardless of cost

and they have extended the incentive scheme for hybrid manufacturer for 2 more years

Since most most folks do short trips, driving around town vs long O&A, it accomplishes the same thing.   Although I'd think PHEV, would get a better (only) incentive, as can operate in full electric mode.  The others just seem like simple marketing to me.

[JBChiangRai]

2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

I think you will find they don't want people to switch regardless of cost

and they have extended the incentive scheme for hybrid manufacturer for 2 more years

I suspect when the incentives cease the prices may stay the same.

 

In any event, EV’s are coming down in price because the battery prices are expected to halve this year.

 

I don’t ever perceive a scenario where EV drivers are penalized over ICE drivers. That would be self defeating to most governments.

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

I suspect when the incentives cease the prices may stay the same.

 

In any event, EV’s are coming down in price because the battery prices are expected to halve this year.

 

I don’t ever perceive a scenario where EV drivers are penalized over ICE drivers. That would be self defeating to most governments.

I have seen posts on this thread where the expectation is that current vehicles will drop by a further 50% with the new batteries I personally don't think this will happen more than likely the new batteries will be installed on new models

My understand is the wholesale battery price may reduce by 50% battery supplier to Brand

not Brand to end customer

Current Byd atto3 extended model B950K 

Byd are talking about reducing price with Byd e 4.0 platform I seen 20% reduction being mention

so if we take 20% off the B950K price that brings price down to B760K if you were to reduce that price by 50% it would take atto3 price down to B380K 

if you were to extend price cuts for the rest of BYD range Extended Dolphin B200k and BYD Seagull  not yet for sale in Thailand down to B50k-B100k I can't see this happening myself

I agree with you that where EV drivers wouldn't be  penalized over ICE drivers but equally I don't see a scenario where business owners will be penalized for using ICE vehicles when at the moment there is no viable alternative available

And I don't see a scenario where EV drivers would have a get out of jail card regarding taxes on fuel

and while I agree putting extra taxes on electricity wouldn't work as that would fuel inflation for everyone I suspect they will increase road tax on ev's to include an amount for loss fuel revenue

[vinny41]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

Since most most folks do short trips, driving around town vs long O&A, it accomplishes the same thing.   Although I'd think PHEV, would get a better (only) incentive, as can operate in full electric mode.  The others just seem like simple marketing to me.

I can't see many people buying PHEV at the moment cheapest being B1.4 million

if the new BYD Qin Plus EV DM-i Phev comes to Thailand at similar pricing to China 405,000 baht Yes I sure that would take away sales from Honda City HEV and Toyota Yaris Cross HEV 

https://ev.iphonemod.net/byd-new-ev-platform-low-cost-battle-gas-car-sale/

[KhunLA]

Just now, vinny41 said:

I can't see many people buying PHEV at the moment cheapest being B1.4 million

if the new BYD Qin Plus EV DM-i Phev comes to Thailand at similar pricing to China 405,000 baht Yes I sure that would take away sales from Honda City HEV and Toyota Yaris Cross HEV 

https://ev.iphonemod.net/byd-new-ev-platform-low-cost-battle-gas-car-sale/

I haven't wrapped my head around hybrids at all.   Do you take that many O&A, and are you really that impatient, and really want to drive more the 3+ hrs per leg, without a mere 30+ minute stop, for a stretch of the leg, P, munch or coffee / pastry. 

 

A quick top up back to 90%, which easily gives you 2-3 hr more.   That's a 6 hrs day on TH roads, and more than enough for me.  Rare we even do that.

 

Aside from the added weight, cost, maintenance, for the luxury of a 10 minute fuel stop, which of course you won't be taking a P, or getting any munchies.   Buddha forbid you waste any time with those.  In a 6 hour drive, you are going to stop, unless single, no wife, kids or dog.

 

I'm lucky if I make 2 or 3 hrs with the wife.  Within an hour, she's needs to P or get brekkie.  I'm not buying the ... "I drive 6-8 hrs without stopping, or just to top up" ..... BULLSH!T

[JBChiangRai]

5 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Taxing ICE wouldn't happen as that impacts business which in turn increase's inflation

more likely to increase road tax on ev's to include an amount for loss fuel revenue

 

That is exactly what is happening in the UK currently.

 

The more your car pollutes, the higher the tax. It can be as high as 125,000 baht for some vehicles in the UK

[KhunLA]

26 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That is exactly what is happening in the UK currently.

 

The more your car pollutes, the higher the tax. It can be as high as 125,000 baht for some vehicles in the UK

USA went the other way, and reward buying big polluters.   2721 kg or more, nice tax write off.

 

That's why all the big SUVs, 4X4, and everything is on a 'truck' frame, as they aren't cars, they're trucks, and get a huge tax write off for the owners, businesses, manufacturers.

 

Anything to keep Big Oil's profits flowing.  Al while pushing GO GREEN 

[vinny41]

16 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

That is exactly what is happening in the UK currently.

 

The more your car pollutes, the higher the tax. It can be as high as 125,000 baht for some vehicles in the UK

And This is Thailand just because the UK adopts a policy it doesn't mean that Thailand should adopt the same policy

The primary method for generating electricity is the burning of natural gas which generates 112.6 TWh, and this accounts for 58.68% of the total electricity consumption [2]. Coal is the second most consumed fuel in Thailand, generating 35.1 TWh of electricity or 18.27% of the total consumption [2

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-31625-8_25#:~:text=

It seems logical to be if drivers are switching from diesel and petrol to  electricity and using more electric that EV drivers should  pay for an additional tax included within the road tax until the point that 100% of electricity generation is from renewable energy

[JBChiangRai]

Just now, vinny41 said:

It seems logical to be if drivers are switching from diesel and petrol to  electricity and using more electric that EV drivers should  pay for an additional tax included within the road tax until the point that 100% of electricity generation is from renewable energy

 

I find that illogical

[Bandersnatch]

EV haters are always going after EV owners for not paying enough tax.

 

If all the Diesel drivers switched to EVs in Thailand we wouldn't have to subsidize Diesel to the tune of 100 billion Baht

 

[josephbloggs]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

EV haters are always going after EV owners for not paying enough tax.

 

If all the Diesel drivers switched to EVs in Thailand we wouldn't have to subsidize Diesel to the tune of 100 billion Baht

 

That's a very good point, and usually overlooked.

[ExpatOilWorker]

8 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

EV haters are always going after EV owners for not paying enough tax.

 

If all the Diesel drivers switched to EVs in Thailand we wouldn't have to subsidize Diesel to the tune of 100 billion Baht

 

You do know what Implicit subsidy is, right?

 

Governments around the world, including Thailand 🇹🇭 are making billions on dino juice tax, including diesel, even at the current 30 baht.

 

Meanwhile, closer to the subject of EVs:

 

Starting from January to April 2023, the Thai government earmarked THB 75 billion for electricity subsidies to soften the impact of energy prices. Discounts for electricity bills will be allocated to households that consume a maximum of 300 units of electricity per month and reside in the areas covered by the services provided under the concessions contract of the Royal Thai. 
The subsidies are distributed by the Provincial Electricity Authority (PEA) and the Metropolitan Electricity Administration (MEA).

 

[motdaeng]

2 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Meanwhile, closer to the subject of EVs:

 

Starting from January to April 2023, the Thai government earmarked THB 75 billion for electricity subsidies to soften the impact of energy prices. Discounts for electricity bills will be allocated to households that consume a maximum of 300 units of electricity per month and reside in the areas covered by the services provided under the concessions contract of the Royal Thai. 
The subsidies are distributed by the Provincial Electricity Authority (PEA) and the Metropolitan Electricity Administration (MEA).

 

 

i think most bev users do use more than 300 units per month, they won't benefit from this subsidy!

 

for example:
if a bev user drives an average of 30 km, that's 900 km/month x 175 w/km = 157 units.
a modest household with minimal usage of aircon uses about 150 units or more per month.
together, the usage is already over 300 units ...

 

btw, i am against this kind of subsidies for electricity ...

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

btw, i am against this kind of subsidies for electricity ...

Why is that ?  Anyone, family, that uses <300 units a month, needs as much assistance as they can get.  Means they're probably not using ACs, as they simply can't afford them.  It's really hard, next to impossible for us not to 300 units a month.

 

Even when we had the solar installed, and we were being as conservative as we could be, to see how little we could use, we never were <300 units.   That was not using the ACs at all, late Aug (?) & Sept (380 units), as we didn't need to, since rainy season and nice overcast skies.   A couple days, the ESS/back up batteries barely recharged to 100% before night fall.

 

We use about 4 units a day, when we're O&A, so near 120 units a month, just keeping the frigs running.

[vinny41]

11 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

EV haters are always going after EV owners for not paying enough tax.

 

If all the Diesel drivers switched to EVs in Thailand we wouldn't have to subsidize Diesel to the tune of 100 billion Baht

 

It must be a very bleak existence if all EV owners refused to accept any product where diesel has been used as part of the delivery process

No supermarket food, no electrical items such as TV, Fridge, No Solar equipment no replacement parts for EV

no visiting Bars , restaurants, or coffee shops
Not using roads as the construction used to build roads would be using diesel

[JBChiangRai]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It must be a very bleak existence if all EV owners refused to accept any product where diesel has been used as part of the delivery process

No supermarket food, no electrical items such as TV, Fridge, No Solar equipment no replacement parts for EV

no visiting Bars , restaurants, or coffee shops
Not using roads as the construction used to build roads would be using diesel

 

I don't think anyone is that principled, except Greta maybe

[ExpatOilWorker]

40 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

 

i think most bev users do use more than 300 units per month, they won't benefit from this subsidy!

 

for example:
if a bev user drives an average of 30 km, that's 900 km/month x 175 w/km = 157 units.
a modest household with minimal usage of aircon uses about 150 units or more per month.
together, the usage is already over 300 units ...

 

btw, i am against this kind of subsidies for electricity ...

The EVangelists are committed to the cause. They will install a couple of cheap Chinese solar panels, demand the neighbor trim his mango tree so there is no afternoon shade on the panels, spin the meter (illegally) backwards, and monitor everything on an app 24/7, so they only use 299 units and maximize every public baht they can squeeze out of the system.

Long live the (green) revolution!!!

[KhunLA]

14 minutes ago, JBChiangRai said:

 

I don't think anyone is that principled, except Greta maybe

Oh I'm pretty sure she uses electric, even batteries.

 

"Hey Greta, want to have sex"

"HOW DARE YOU" ... now where'd I put my vibrator ?

 

She probably has one of these, for product endorsement 

[Bandersnatch]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

You do know what Implicit subsidy is, right?

 

Governments around the world, including Thailand 🇹🇭 are making billions on dino juice tax, including diesel, even at the current 30 baht.

 

Meanwhile, closer to the subject of EVs:

 

Starting from January to April 2023, the Thai government earmarked THB 75 billion for electricity subsidies to soften the impact of energy prices. Discounts for electricity bills will be allocated to households that consume a maximum of 300 units of electricity per month and reside in the areas covered by the services provided under the concessions contract of the Royal Thai. 
The subsidies are distributed by the Provincial Electricity Authority (PEA) and the Metropolitan Electricity Administration (MEA).

 

You will please to know that I don’t benefit a single Satang of that subsidy 

 

 

 

[motdaeng]

btw, i am against this kind of subsidies for electricity ...

 

1 hour ago, KhunLA said:

Why is that ?  Anyone, family, that uses <300 units a month, needs as much assistance as they can get.  Means they're probably not using ACs, as they simply can't afford them.  It's really hard, next to impossible for us not to 300 units a month.

 

i was expecting this question, thank you khunla.

 

i think this is more of a populist measure to support the poor and get in return they blind support for

this (corrupt) government!

 

the subsidy is maybe 50 (?) satang per unit, if a poor family spends 150 units per month,

this saves them 75 baht! does this help? hardly!

on the other hand, some poor thais spend their last money on 2 lottery tickets for 160 baht ...

 

isn't it more sensible to find a way to support the poor sustainably ... just giving money is not sustainable ...

[motdaeng]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The EVangelists are committed to the cause. They will install a couple of cheap Chinese solar panels, demand the neighbor trim his mango tree so there is no afternoon shade on the panels, spin the meter (illegally) backwards, and monitor everything on an app 24/7, so they only use 299 units and maximize every public baht they can squeeze out of the system.

Long live the (green) revolution!!!

 

do you have a bad day?

[KhunLA]

7 minutes ago, motdaeng said:

btw, i am against this kind of subsidies for electricity ...

 

 

i was expecting this question, thank you khunla.

 

i think this is more of a populist measure to support the poor and get in return they blind support for

this (corrupt) government!

 

the subsidy is maybe 50 (?) satang per unit, if a poor family spends 150 units per month,

this saves them 75 baht! does this help? hardly!

on the other hand, some poor thais spend their last money on 2 lottery tickets for 160 baht ...

 

isn't it more sensible to find a way to support the poor sustainably ... just giving money is not sustainable ...

Just because they receive doesn't mean they support any party, politician.  I think most accept money from politicians here before voting, but doesn't mean they will vote for them.  Free money is hard to turn down, especially when no real strings attached.

 

I got checks from Trump & Biden administration policies, and didn't and wouldn't vote for either, and any politician.  Which reality is moot, as means I wouldn't vote against them either 

 

I think I will benefit from the program, as we use less than 300 units a month, if and when we use any.   Getting those tax ฿฿฿ back, exciting, what to buy next 

[Bandersnatch]

4 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

Governments around the world, including Thailand 🇹🇭 are making billions on dino juice tax

 

They need the tax to help pay for the subsidies. It's a vicious circle!

 

"Come on EV owners you need to chip in to help pay for our fossil fuel subsidies. Yes I know we said it was for the roads but we spend nothing on roads compared to the subsidies we give to fossil fuel companies"

 

 

 

 

[JBChiangRai]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

The EVangelists are committed to the cause. They will install a couple of cheap Chinese solar panels, demand the neighbor trim his mango tree so there is no afternoon shade on the panels, spin the meter (illegally) backwards, and monitor everything on an app 24/7, so they only use 299 units and maximize every public baht they can squeeze out of the system.

Long live the (green) revolution!!!

 

Well said Comrade

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Bandersnatch said:

 

They need the tax to help pay for the subsidies. It's a vicious circle!

 

"Come on EV owners you need to chip in to help pay for our fossil fuel subsidies. Yes I know we said it was for the roads but we spend nothing on roads compared to the subsidies we give to fossil fuel companies"

 

 

 

 

Let me try to explain implicit subsidy, so even you understands it.

A farmer produce a mango 🥭 for $1 + $1 in distribution and supermarket profit and we have a $2 mango 🥭. 

Evey is happy 😊,  but then the government implement a $8 mango 🥭 tax. 

$10 mangoes don't sell well and in an election year the government set up a mango fund and subsidize each mango with $4.

$6 mangoes sell well and soon the mango fund is $10 billion  in debt.

The government still got $20 in tax or $10 billion net mango tax, since they are liable for the mango fund.

That is implicit subsidy. 

 

Explicit subsidy is when the government pay 15,000 baht for rice it later sell for 5,000 baht.

 

Oil is a huge cash cow for all governments, including the Thai government taxing 30 baht diesel ⛽️.