ASEAN seeks US support for peace efforts in Ukraine

[NorthernRyland]

Just now, TropicalGuy said:

NO. NATO created to counter RUSSIA, an existential threat to Civilization. That is why USA remains heavily committed to strengthen & defend a Free Europe.

The Soviet Union is not "Russia" or the Russian people and in the 80s so what are they even fighting anymore??? It's like the "if you all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail".

[TropicalGuy]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

My point is our media is lying to us about labor shortages in tech and I wouldn't be surprised if Indians themselves are working with the media companies/politicians to spread the lie.

 

I'm actually a programmer and I was looking for work last year so I can tell you with confidence that every job opening has _at least_ 100 applicants and the market is totally saturated. Programming is not that hard and there are endless amount of American kids who can do this work so there's absolutely justification for allowing foreigners to compete with them.

 

The fact the last CEO of Twitter had an actual accent tells me these people are effectively taking over entire companies  and Americans are so brainwashed with this "there's only race the human race" nonsense that they can't see it.

Indian basic level IT workers should NOT be able to get work permits to advanced countries.
CEOs a different matter though being rare and highly skilled but why would advanced western countries need IT CEOs, without western Quals. ,business experience & success, from third world countries ? 

Surely these Indian CEOS hold Western Passports / Degrees ? 

[NorthernRyland]

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Surely these Indian CEOS hold Western Passports / Degrees ? 

It's all legal and their's an entire pipeline in place. The biggest problem they have is the per-country cap on H1B visas but they have bought and paid for politics working to overturn that.

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

The Soviet Union is not "Russia" or the Russian people and in the 80s so what are they even fighting anymore??? It's like the "if you all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail".

You can’t be that naive surely? 
Just explained the threat to you !

RUSSIA was always the creator, ruler, puppet master and all-important core of “ Soviet Union” & “Warsaw Pact”; all contemptuously referenced by Moscow (Russia) as the (slave) “ satellites”. 

Seriously ? “ what are they even fighting for”? You ask that after Ukraine invaded ? It’s Perfectly Clear ! Strange Attitude.

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

It's all legal and their's an entire pipeline in place. The biggest problem they have is the per-country cap on H1B visas but they have bought and paid for politics working to overturn that.

Can’t be “ legal” if Americans can do those jobs, which obviously they can. This criminal “ pipeline” needs to be closed down by legal class action against Federal Immigration who are clearly failing here by effectively facilitating this clear conspiracy for an “ open border” for Indian IT Workers.

[NorthernRyland]

4 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

You can’t be that naive surely? 
Just explained the threat to you !

RUSSIA was always the creator, ruler, puppet master and all-important core of “ Soviet Union” & “Warsaw Pact”; all contemptuously referenced by Moscow (Russia) as the (slave) “ satellites”. 

The people running the Soviet Union are all dead now or in their 80s and 90s yet you're putting this on modern day Russians. Whatever, if you want to fight and die for that I know Ukraine is accepting missionaries so I suggest that's what you do.

[NorthernRyland]

1 minute ago, TropicalGuy said:

Can’t be “ legal” if Americans can do those jobs, which obviously they can. This criminal “ pipeline” needs to be closed down by legal class action against Federal Immigration who are clearly failing here by effectively facilitating this clear conspiracy for an “ open border” for Indian IT Workers.

Agreed 100%.

[TropicalGuy]

1 minute ago, NorthernRyland said:

The people running the Soviet Union are all dead now or in their 80s and 90s yet you're putting this on modern day Russians. Whatever, if you want to fight and die for that I know Ukraine is accepting missionaries so I suggest that's what you do.

Really can’t make the point any clearer. You’re saying Russia is no threat any more because it’s no longer part of the former “Soviet Union” , even after Russia has clearly shown it IS a serious threat to West by invading Ukraine; right got it. ????????

I’m not “ putting this” on anyone nor needing “ to fight and die” ” nor looking to join any “ missionaries” . 

Do try to stay rational & focused properly on topic. 

[TropicalGuy]

29 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

It's all legal and their's an entire pipeline in place. The biggest problem they have is the per-country cap on H1B visas but they have bought and paid for politics working to overturn that.

“Angry” emoji needed !????

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Really can’t make the point any clearer. You’re saying Russia is no threat any more because it’s no longer part of the former “Soviet Union” , even after Russia has clearly shown it IS a serious threat to West by invading Ukraine; right got it. ????????

 

Well I don't buy it. I saw the entire US get whipped into frenzy over Iraq and WMDs and I'm not falling for it again. Putin can invade and eliminate the entire pro-NATO regime and I'm fine with that.  NATO should be disbanded anyway and every single US base outside the US should be shut down tomorrow. Sorry I've seen enough and I'm done with this nonsense. And with that, it's 10:30 and goodnight!

[placeholder]

56 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Irrelevant Border Clashes. Old as time in this region. India and China are Natural Enemies. I’m historically aware. India being “ neutral” though about joining the alliance of developed countries against China. 
Like China,India unable to project power beyond their borders so unclear what use they might be. 

Irrelevant to what? Ya think these are ping-pong games? China is seeking to expand its territory. India is resisting effectively.  

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

NATO was established during the Cold War and why it wasn't disbanded in 1989 is part of the problem. It's largely US funded (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country) and why would the US be spending that much money on an organization created to fight the now-defunct Soviet Union?

 

If NATO would have gone away in 1989 like it should have we'd only have a regional border dispute instead of potential nuclear WWIII on our hands.

Maybe for the same reason that Soviet flags are now flying in territories that Russia has liberated? Do you recall that Putin said the collapse of the Soviet Union was the greatest tragedy of the 20th century? The same century that saw WW1 and WW2. 

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Well I don't buy it. I saw the entire US get whipped into frenzy over Iraq and WMDs and I'm not falling for it again. Putin can invade and eliminate the entire pro-NATO regime and I'm fine with that.  NATO should be disbanded anyway and every single US base outside the US should be shut down tomorrow. Sorry I've seen enough and I'm done with this nonsense. And with that, it's 10:30 and goodnight!

Excellent point! There is no evidence at all that Russia has invaded Ukraine. It's all an invention of the CIA. 

[Scott]

Please stay on topic.  The topic isn't about immigration to the US or the existence of NATO.

 

[TropicalGuy]

3 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Well I don't buy it. I saw the entire US get whipped into frenzy over Iraq and WMDs and I'm not falling for it again. Putin can invade and eliminate the entire pro-NATO regime and I'm fine with that.  NATO should be disbanded anyway and every single US base outside the US should be shut down tomorrow. Sorry I've seen enough and I'm done with this nonsense. And with that, it's 10:30 and goodnight!

CND / Labour/ Michael Foot/ 1980  viewpoint .Silly Lefty  sixth Form Politics.  Irresponsible & Demonstrably Wrong. Suspect you dropped History & Logic aged 14 in favor of Computer Science ….????????

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Irrelevant to what? Ya think these are ping-pong games? China is seeking to expand its territory. India is resisting effectively.  

Pathetic isolated micro-aggressions by local CCP involving 50 unarmed soldiers and remote useless mountain land is  hardly “expanding territory”. Irrelevant to Anything really. Embarrassing outcome for the beaten Chinese in fact. 

[placeholder]

54 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Pathetic isolated micro-aggressions by local CCP involving 50 unarmed soldiers and remote useless mountain land is  hardly “expanding territory”. Irrelevant to Anything really. Embarrassing outcome for the beaten Chinese in fact. 

What do you mean "local CCP"? You think these were some chinese equivalent of the National Guard? Really? And as for "microaggressions", if the Indians hadn't fought them off, do you think the Chinese would have retreated back to their previous lines anyway? And how many Chinese troops has the USA fought off recently?

[gearbox]

2 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

NATO was established during the Cold War and why it wasn't disbanded in 1989 is part of the problem. It's largely US funded (https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/nato-spending-by-country) and why would the US be spending that much money on an organization created to fight the now-defunct Soviet Union?

 

If NATO would have gone away in 1989 like it should have we'd only have a regional border dispute instead of potential nuclear WWIII on our hands.

NATO is an American tool to sell weapons to "allies" and use the member countries to project American interests.

It should have been dismantled after the cold war and replaced with a smaller "EU only" defence pact. EU only pact should use weaponry produced only in EU, the French manufacture pretty good stuff, and Germany is proven many times it could make excellent military hardware.

No need to line up the pockets of the warmongers.

Would be interesting times ahead, Macron barely won against Le Pen, and apparently in Germany the government is getting quite unpopular.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, gearbox said:

NATO is an American tool to sell weapons to "allies" and use the member countries to project American interests.

It should have been dismantled after the cold war and replaced with a smaller "EU only" defence pact. EU only pact should use weaponry produced only in EU, the French manufacture pretty good stuff, and Germany is proven many times it could make excellent military hardware.

No need to line up the pockets of the warmongers.

Would be interesting times ahead, Macron barely won against Le Pen, and apparently in Germany the government is getting quite unpopular.

"Macron barely won against Le Pen? Really? You get your news from RT?

"Emmanuel Macron has won five more years as France's president after a convincing victory over rival Marine Le Pen, who nevertheless secured the far right's highest share of the vote yet.

He won by 58.55% to 41.45%, a greater margin than expected."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61209058

[gearbox]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

"Macron barely won against Le Pen? Really? You get your news from RT?

"Emmanuel Macron has won five more years as France's president after a convincing victory over rival Marine Le Pen, who nevertheless secured the far right's highest share of the vote yet.

He won by 58.55% to 41.45%, a greater margin than expected."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61209058

The best ever result for Le Pen. If the trend continues eventually she'll win.

 

 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The best ever result for Le Pen. If the trend continues eventually she'll win.

 

 

She was doing a lot better before her benefactor decided to invade Ukraine.

[candide]

4 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Well it's the same people and this time they want a war with Russia so they're using NATO to advance on them. Putin explained in his speech why he did what he did. You're letting these same clowns that lied to you about WMDs convince you Russia is a threat after they themselves started it.

 

This time it's not going to be bombing goat herders in the hills but a serious war and China may even get involved and support Russia. You seriously think this is a good idea and worth the cost when all you had to do was stay home and stop meddling in other countries affairs?

Another lame oversimplification. This is not the same people. The truth eventually surfaced and the GOP has been voted out. That's the difference between a (surely imperfect) democratic system and an autocratic system.

The USA did not convince anyone that Russia is a threat. Eastern European countries which experienced Russian imperialism in the past did not need to be "convinced". They new by experience that Russia was a threat. They begged to be admitted to NATO. No one is currently convinced by the U.S. we just need to look at what Russia is actually doing and the lame lies of Putin (Ukraine threatening Russia, lol! Denazification! ????) 

Putin is a fail. Putin is real clown. He failed to develop his country, he failed to create a soft power in order to attract allies, he even failed to create a modern and efficient army. He's a dinosaur. What a difference with China! And we should pay attention to his lame justification for killing people and destroying an independent and democratic country?

[candide]

4 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

The Soviet Union is not "Russia" or the Russian people and in the 80s so what are they even fighting anymore??? It's like the "if you all you have is a hammer every problem looks like a nail".

Exactly. The Russian federation left the Soviet Union and declared its independence in June 1991! 

Oh wait! Don't Putin and his fans refer to oral promises made by the US not to extend NATO to former Soviet Union countries, made to the defunct Soviet Union, in order to justify the invasion of Ukraine? ????

Edited May 8, 2022 by candide

[candide]

3 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

Pathetic isolated micro-aggressions by local CCP involving 50 unarmed soldiers and remote useless mountain land is  hardly “expanding territory”. Irrelevant to Anything really. Embarrassing outcome for the beaten Chinese in fact. 

You need to look at the broader picture:

- Pakistan is India's arch enemy and is allied with China,

- China is in conflict with India for parts of Cachemir

- It's not only about Cachemir but also a part of Tibet which is like a balcony overhanging China

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Putin explained in his speech why he did what he did. You're letting these same clowns that lied to you about WMDs convince you Russia is a threat after they themselves started it.

I am afraid that when it comes to lies, Putin and his henchmen exceed our expectations. 

[TropicalGuy]

8 hours ago, candide said:

You need to look at the broader picture:

- Pakistan is India's arch enemy and is allied with China,

- China is in conflict with India for parts of Cachemir

- It's not only about Cachemir but also a part of Tibet which is like a balcony overhanging China

Borders are Set. China & Pakistan belligerence is natural for these brutal cultures & cannot be helped. India dealing with it well. Tibet is inside China borders. India not expansionist & not engaged militarily & strategically beyond these issues. CCP Strategy no doubt. 

[TropicalGuy]

11 hours ago, placeholder said:

What do you mean "local CCP"? You think these were some chinese equivalent of the National Guard? Really? And as for "microaggressions", if the Indians hadn't fought them off, do you think the Chinese would have retreated back to their previous lines anyway? And how many Chinese troops has the USA fought off recently?

Fist Fight between unarmed soldiers looks like some half- baked local initiative. China could not possibly have held any tiny frozen ground “ taken”. China not on US borders. India defending clear borders. Nothing to see hear so let’s move along. 

[TropicalGuy]

11 hours ago, gearbox said:

NATO is an American tool to sell weapons to "allies" and use the member countries to project American interests.

It should have been dismantled after the cold war and replaced with a smaller "EU only" defence pact. EU only pact should use weaponry produced only in EU, the French manufacture pretty good stuff, and Germany is proven many times it could make excellent military hardware.

No need to line up the pockets of the warmongers.

Would be interesting times ahead, Macron barely won against Le Pen, and apparently in Germany the government is getting quite unpopular.

That’s Russian Strategy. EU is for Trade. Deludedly thinks it’s a “ superstate” needing its own armed forces. For what ? NATO is EU + English Speaking Nations. Immeasurably more Powerful & Effective

[TropicalGuy]

12 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Well I don't buy it. I saw the entire US get whipped into frenzy over Iraq and WMDs and I'm not falling for it again. Putin can invade and eliminate the entire pro-NATO regime and I'm fine with that.  NATO should be disbanded anyway and every single US base outside the US should be shut down tomorrow. Sorry I've seen enough and I'm done with this nonsense. And with that, it's 10:30 and goodnight!

Talking like a pro- Putin agitator & CND nutcase. All that would benefit only Putin and leave Free Europe Exposed. 

[ArcticFox]

On 5/6/2022 at 10:35 AM, Jingthing said:

The only real hope for peace in Ukraine, etc. is to beat Putin's ass in the WAR.  Clearly Asean wants to stay neutral. Not helpful!

Absolutely Jingthing!  I'm with you 100%.
Declare a No Fly Zone immediately and take the Russians out of the skies as well as on the ground.  That will allow Ukraine's brave Freedom Fighters to show the Russian a thing or two.  And once the brave AFU and Azov fighters have the upper hand with US and NATO superior air cover from the Air, Sea, and Land, then the combined forces of Europe and NATO need to follow those brave men and women right over the Russian border and right to the outskirts of Moscow.  The Russian people will rise up when the see the true face of Freedom and Democracy has landed on its mainland and all that is needed is for Russian citizens to overthrow their corrupt tyrants who murder Ukrainian civilians in the streets. 
Let's show Russian the true might of the United State's superior military equipment and outstanding US and NATO military troops as well as to send a clear and bold message to China that Taiwan is a free democracy and will be a part of a new ASEAN NATO of freedom loving and peaceful countries.  ASEAN needs to get on the right side of history!
We need more US leaders with real guts like Biden, Graham, Pelosi, and even the courageous Doctor Jill Biden who is now risking it all to fly to Ukraine to show the American people The Right Stuff that their leaders are made of.  And bipartisan support for Congressman Adam Kinzinger bill to immediately deploy troops when Russia final crosses our 'red lines' which they have already done on multiple occasions.

That's what is needed!!!  An all out offensive by our United States, her allies, and the NATO countries as well as all countries bordering Russia on all of Russia's borders.  Declare a No Fly Zone for all Russian planes and immediately attack Russian aggression in one massive, global D-Day exercise to end "Russian Aggression" forever, as well as to usher in a new age of Freedom and Democracy in a rules-based international order.  American needs to move now and destroy the Russian hordes and their regime "Over There" so that peace and freedom reigns on all Western shores and soil.  Stop ignoring the chemical attacks by Russia on Ukraine forces.  If we don't, next up will be a tactile nuke hitting Kiev. 
And our youth in the West need to sign up for America's Freedom Forces.  Truthfully they need to bring back The Draft like they had when I was 18.  All youth should do their military and civic duties for their countries, and we need massive Armies to show the Russian and Chinese totalitarians that the United States will not stand for tyranny in any form.
 

God Bless America!!!  Let Freedom Ring Worldwide!!!  Let's put an end to Tyranny!