7 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

I remember now the calloused, rough hands of my ex-girlfriend's father. His sun-wrinkled face. This man worked hard all his life and at the same time had no any savings and not even a decent house. And now some pampered farang is telling me about lazy Thai people...

 

 

"I remember now...." ???? That's quite the imagery you've conjured up there. Have you considered writing a novel? ????

 

Pampered farang? ???? Are you one of those liberal lefties who think all white people grew up rich? Suffering from white guilt much? You'll be lecturing me on white privilege next. You're not Robin DiAngelo are you? 

5 minutes ago, Hellfire said:

You know, if my only option was to work in the construction or in the rice field for 300 baht a day - I would prefer to steal or sell drugs instead. 

 

You know what? That doesn't surprise me one bit, and tells me everything I need to know.

My girl is different (?).

2 hours ago, Hellfire said:

 And what about that 10 usd wage per day? With the family to feed? Working under the hot sun? Would you still be able to succeed when paid so little for the hardest kinds of work? And this is the reality for the most of poor people in Thailand. “There are obviously exceptions”.

 

 

Was thinking about this today after paying my Burmese cleaning lady 350 thb (2x month).  She cleans several condo units where I live and probably makes a good monthly wage all on her own.  Much more than the minimum 350 thb per day.  A lot of Thai's work factories or on the family rice farm or in the girlie bars and don't make what this immigrant makes.  Called initiative ... 

3 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Poor people in Thailand are damned. It is so hard for them to make it out of poverty. The system does everything to keep them poor (and uneducated). I guess, she never had such a big sum of money at her disposal before. 

 

 

I have several relatives here, from very average family backgrounds. All have done extremely well for themselves by studying. One is a doctor, another a lawyer, another owns his own company designing and supplying bathroom fixtures. I guess 'the system' failed them as it didn't keep them poor and uneducated.

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

You never give any sort of contractor here all the money in advance. A small deposit maybe. If he is known to you. I do agree it is hard to get money back from most Thais.

 

The tale of the One Way store. Great stuff. You could not make this stuff up, if you tried! I went to a local mini mart. Bought six bottles of soda water. The old guy told me I had to pay 5 baht deposit, per bottle. I said ok. Went back with my bottles later, and wanted to buy some more. He quoted me a price that did not take into account my 30 baht deposit. I said I get the deposit back, and then pay you for the water, right? He said no, the deposit is one way! I would have been upset, if I was not laughing so hard. I said no, this farang is one way, that way, and never come back. I took my bottles and left. It was well worth it. Have been telling that story to my friends for weeks. We all love it!

I have had hundreds of these kinds of encounters here in LOS. Always amazed by them. There is a complete disregard for the future, for future patronage, for the idea of loyalty, and rewarding you for such. It has happened with merchants I had been dealing with for years. Over tiny amounts of money. Of course, they lose me for life. But, they do not seem to care one iota.

I am a business owner. I will do nearly anything to retain a loyal customer. Whatever it takes. A full refund, an exchange, just tell me what you want. Here? None of that. Tomorrow? Why think about tomorrow, when I can make an extra 30 baht today?

 

Great story, One Way Deposit/One Way Farang.

 

????????????

 

With the two examples I gave, my wife had given the guy only about 20% to help him buy materials. And he STARTED the job, even. But then........ he just never came back. 

 

With the friend's story---a Thai former teacher---she was dealing with a cash-strapped former student. She paid him the total amount up front "to help him out," which is really why she gave HIM the job, in the first place. 

 

I think she sincerely believed the "ajarn" connection with her former student would keep things clean. 

 

In the end, I think she still pitied him, because after getting the police involved, she let him make the gate anyway---complete the contract---rather than forcing him to give the money back. 

 

I have been surprised, though, through my wife and her circle of friends........... how little some Thai people seem to know about how [some] Thai people are! ????????????

 

After YEARS of being aced out of the decision-making process in our home and business........... and YEARS of her having to hear me say "I told you so!".......... she finally consultes with me on many of the decisions that need to be made. ????????????

 

(But I'm also savvy enough to know when something is out of my element. "Sorry, sweetheart, I don't know about that. That's a Thai thing!".......... Like: How much should you "reward" a police officer for helping out with a small but difficult family crisis? How much should you put into the funeral envelope of an old-but-not-close friend who has died? [Jaysus, I dunno! I'd buy <& $%@#> flowers.......... or, apparently, an electric fan! ????????????]) 

 

Cheers! 

5555 Of course it was a mistake but only after she was caught spending a big sum of the money.

5 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

It has been my experience that with Thai people, once money changes hands---even wrongly---that immediately and automatically becomes THEIR money. It's a perception thing, an immediate perception shift. 

 

I know a woman who paid in advance for an iron worker to build her an iron gate for her house. A year went by, no gate. Two years went by, no gate! When she FINALLY demanded her money back, the iron worker acted like he couldn't understand why HE should have to give her HIS money! (She didn't want to involve the police, but finally had to.) 

 

Once the money was in HIS hands, it was HIS money, not HERS! 

 

I've seen at least a dozen other examples of this, over time. 

 

So, it doesn't surprise me in the least that when this woman received a bunch of money she KNEW didn't belong to her........ she rushed out and spent a bunch. 

 

And it doesn't surprise me in the least that she might think she'd be entitled to pay back the unpaid in payments.......... because she can't even grasp the fact that the money ISN'T HERS! 

 

It's in her hands........... therefore......... IT'S HERS! 

 

Why is this person---the person who made the mistake in the first place---expecting her to give them HER money? (Not give back the money......... just GIVE the money!) 

 

(We have one pending ourselves, right now. We advanced some money to do some roof work, and the guy just stopped showing up. Okay, that happens. But when my wife asks for the advance money back.......... he acts like he has no idea what we're talking about. He has HIS money........ but none of OURS....... even though he's never done the work! ????????????)

 

All kinds of people in the world! 

 

Cheers! 

Correct. It is their money. A gift.

3 hours ago, Hellfire said:

And what about that 10 usd wage per day?

Someone else who thinks that the minimum wage is mandatory as the only wage paid in Thailand.   There are plenty of jobs that pay more than B330 per day available

Not strictly a Thai thing though. Ah, humans and money...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/18/gambler-blows-towns-whole-covid-relief-fund-that-appeared-in-his-account

Always demand snap shot of QR code from the receiver. 

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Thanks for the advice love, but you're not exactly in the position to be preaching morals to others ????.

 

I am totally OCD about checking the account numbers before I send money on banking apps. I check it 5 times times, click OK then check it another 5 times before clicking Confirm. Because I am in no doubt about how hard it would be to get money back if I accidentally transferred it to the wrong person. Getting money back off a Thai is like getting blood out of a stone, even if you are obviously in the right. I doubt this woman will ever see the full amount repaid.

 

I wonder how she managed to spend so much in such a short period of time. It doesn't look like she spent it on house renovations or clothes. Maybe paying off old debts? Gambling? A week in a 5 star hotel/spa? 

When I do a transfer to another's bank account, their name comes up, and an OTP is sent to me. How did this guy bypass that procedure.

In fact they have recently introduced that in UK, the recipient's name shows before the transfer is done.

1 hour ago, Hellfire said:

You know, if my only option was to work in the construction or in the rice field for 300 baht a day - I would prefer to steal or sell drugs instead. 

 

mate, you really need to pull your head out and have a look at the real world not your imaginary one. There are some good workers in Thailand but there are a lot that simply dont want to work, a thais earnings are in line with their living costs same as other countries, try buying what you can get here for a pittance in the western world, a meal here that costs $2 is closer to $20 plus, students stay in my wifes furnished rooms with air con, tv, private bathrooms etc for under $40 a month, try finding that in the western world where you would be paying a lot more than that a week. We have been trying to get workers for several years , we offer 500 baht for 4 hours of easy work, we cannot get takers  but we still see them sitting around of a day doing nothing, the one time we got one he worked 3 weeks then asked for an advance to pay a bill nd did a runner. Our current helpers(husband & wife that live close by) are really great, they will get my wife to put things they need to build their house on her card and then work it off but we still cannot get anyone else to work with them, Your attitude is the problem some hais suffer from they would rather steal or sell drugs than get a sweat up, the problem resides with them for not wanting to make something of themselves, same goes for you with that attitude, have to wonder if you moved here  so you could bludge and do the same things. The lady knew it wasnt her money and probably a mistake but raced out and spent it then tried to hide because she knew iwhat she did was a  crime, she should be charged with theft, made to repay the money as well as get locked up, it is only dead beats that think she did nothing wrong. My wife is from a very poor family, she was dumped by her parents but she worked to put herself through uni and worked her butt off to get where she is so it can be done if you want to, trouble is too many are like you and dont want to have to do  any hard yards

4 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Poor people in Thailand are damned. It is so hard for them to make it out of poverty. The system does everything to keep them poor (and uneducated). I guess, she never had such a big sum of money at her disposal before. I really cannot blame her for her actions. I prefer to blame the corrupt system which keeps millions of hard working people poor and without any hope for a better future.

 

 

"I really cannot blame her for her actions." 

 

Hmmm. 

 

You know, being poor is not what makes people dishonest. Being dishonest is what makes people dishonest. There are lots and lots and lots of scrupulously honest poor people in the world! 

 

You see, she didn't need to know where the money came from or who the money came from.......... to be honest. All she needed to know was that the money WASN'T HERS. And that much she already knew! 

 

(Can't tell you how many times I've had similar situations come up in my life, in both social and work situations. Someone takes something of mine..... usually something small like a drink, a meal, or a snack; sometimes something bigger, more important........ and they almost invariably say, "Sorry, I didn't know that was yours." To this, I've always responded...... frequently angrily............ "You didn't need to know it was mine. You only needed to know it WASN'T YOURS!") 

 

"I really cannot blame her for her actions." 

 

Of course you can! What's more, you SHOULD! 

 

"Integrity is not defined by what you do when someone is watching. Integrity is defined by what you do when no one is watching!" 

 

This woman wants people to view her as a person of integrity. But what she did when no one was watching............ proves she doesn't deserve that. 

 

When faced with a moral and ethical dilemma, she chose---CHOSE---dishonesty over honesty. Being poor........ even being trapped in a system that may be keeping her poor......... has absolutely nothing to do with that!

 

She was tested....... given choices.......... and not just failed, but failed spectacularly! 

 

That's EXACTLY when a person deserves to be blamed! 

 

????????????

 

Cheers! 

 

 

4 hours ago, Hellfire said:

Poor people in Thailand are damned. It is so hard for them to make it out of poverty. The system does everything to keep them poor (and uneducated). I guess, she never had such a big sum of money at her disposal before. I really cannot blame her for her actions. I prefer to blame the corrupt system which keeps millions of hard working people poor and without any hope for a better future.

 

 

So Thai people who are poor then have a good reason to become thieves. Well, one must have a reason right, for anything they do. Theft, murder, rape, assault, battery.

Well, if you have a reason for your actions, or someone else to blame, must be ok right?

 

There is such a thing as "Morals". Check it out.

She'll never get it back, the most she'd pay is 1,000 per month and that would only last a couple of months. Besides the woman doesn't need it because she's rich, happened with us my wife didn't need it because she was married to a farang.

8 hours ago, webfact said:

In response to the furor she has paid 20,000 baht back after putting her daughter's motorcycle into an HP agreement.

Does her daughter know...

8 hours ago, webfact said:

She complained that she had been vilified in "the court of social media" after the story went viral online especially in her native Buriram. 

Vilified?  Didn't she run away with the money?

 

8 hours ago, webfact said:

She said she would return the remaining 110,000 in instalments by working. 

What did she do with the money?

4 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Did it to me, she'd hit my fist on the way down

Hopefully that would be caught on camera and you would be then locked up for assault.

2 hours ago, Hellfire said:

I remember now the calloused, rough hands of my ex-girlfriend's father. His sun-wrinkled face. This man worked hard all his life and at the same time had no any savings and not even a decent house. And now some pampered farang is telling me about lazy Thai people...

 

 

My wife and I own a small hotel. This means we need to hire some low-skill, low-wage labor. In eight years of being open, I'd say we've had 3 workers who weren't lazy. Maybe 4.

 

The same room my wife can clean sparkling in 20 minutes........ will take them anywhere from 1 to 2 hours to clean. And usually, not as well. 

 

Can't tell you how many times......... and with how many people........ we'd peek in on them, and there they'd be, gabbing on their cell phones!

 

I also shop at Lotus('s) and Big C.......... and see bunches of people standing around. Thai Watsadu, same thing. HomePro, same thing. Global, same thing. 

 

At Big C, two days ago, I saw a crowd of workers standing around a pallet that was being restacked on to a display. 2 were moving the merchandise; 5 were just standing around, talking; 3 were on their cell phones. 10 people altogether, 2 of which were working! 

 

Yeah, as far as I can see, laziness is NOT uncommon, in Thailand. 

 

Yes, Thailand has some very hard workers. When we had our hotel built, the men and women worked very hard.......... when they worked!

 

In a typical 9 hour day, they actually worked  maybe 3 of them. Yes, they worked hard when they worked. But they spent a lot more time each day NOT working.......... than working! 

 

(My wife finally had to come over and foreman the job every day, so our 3 month building estimate........ would finally get finished by six months!) 

 

And my wife......... who loves her home country......... used to get pretty testy when ~~I~~ would grouse about the wasted time and poor efficiency I'd see. She didn't appreciate my criticism! Oh no, not at all! 555

 

But I could usually shut her up by simply pointing out: There's a reason why America is America, and Thailand is Thailand. And that reason mostly comes down to the kinds of things I was trying to explain to her! 

 

And........ after all these years.......

she finally IS starting to accept that doing it right once......... REALLY IS better than doing it wrong three or four times, and expecting to get paid for it! 

 

(Imagine my dismay when I first came to Thailand and we had a "mechanic" my wife knows come in to replace a leaky pipe under the kitchen sink.

 

When he was "done" and packing up to leave, I pointed out to my wife, "You know, he never even turned on the water to make sure it's working."

 

So, annoyed with ME, she asks the guy to run the water. It leaked just as badly as it had when he arrived! 

 

So the guy fixes it AGAIN. And AGAIN, he gets up, ready to leave, without ever turning on the water! 

 

So, at our request, he does. 

 

And it leaks! . 

 

So, he has to "fix it" yet again [this time successfully!] 

 

But twice he "fixed it" and was preparing to leave.......... without ever even turning the water on! 

 

Ah, Thailand.......! Why do it right once.......... when you can get paid to do it wrong, three or four times! ????????????) 

 

Cheers! 

43 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Does her daughter know...

Lol

 

Now there's a good question! 

 

Lol

9 hours ago, webfact said:

She wants to see if Saowanee means her apology and left it in the hands of the police to follow up. 

Bit of a headscratcher for the constabulary this one!

 

The complainant to be repaid in installments, and looking at the house she is living in it appears the accused has little money - so what is an honest copper to do?

10 hours ago, webfact said:

She made the obligatory "wai" for the press

She could have all this go away with a wai of she were a Jedi, I guess force is not so strong with her.

 

10 hours ago, webfact said:

She complained that she had been vilified in "the court of social media" after the story went viral online especially in her native Buriram. 

Oh, so she’s not the villain and didn’t try to make off with money that wasn’t hers. How could they blame and attack such a sweet, honest woman on social media? She did wai the press, so doesn’t that erase any wrong doing on her part? Unbelievable.

4 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

My wife and I own a small hotel. This means we need to hire some low-skill, low-wage labor. In eight years of being open, I'd say we've had 3 workers who weren't lazy. Maybe 4.

 

Can't tell you how many times......... and with how many people........ we'd peek in on them, and there they'd be, gabbing on their cell phones!

 

And my wife......... who loves her home country......... used to get pretty testy when ~~I~~ would grouse about the wasted time and poor efficiency I'd see. She didn't appreciate my criticism! Oh no, not at all! 555

 

But I could usually shut her up by simply pointing out: There's a reason why America is America, and Thailand is Thailand. 

 

 

I feel your lack of managing to find good employees could be down to you.

 

Also what is this about?

 

But I could usually shut her up by simply pointing out: There's a reason why America is America, and Thailand is Thailand

 

12 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

It has been my experience that with Thai people, once money changes hands---even wrongly---that immediately and automatically becomes THEIR money. It's a perception thing, an immediate perception shift. 

 

I know a woman who paid in advance for an iron worker to build her an iron gate for her house. A year went by, no gate. Two years went by, no gate! When she FINALLY demanded her money back, the iron worker acted like he couldn't understand why HE should have to give her HIS money! (She didn't want to involve the police, but finally had to.) 

 

Once the money was in HIS hands, it was HIS money, not HERS! 

 

I've seen at least a dozen other examples of this, over time. 

 

So, it doesn't surprise me in the least that when this woman received a bunch of money she KNEW didn't belong to her........ she rushed out and spent a bunch. 

 

And it doesn't surprise me in the least that she might think she'd be entitled to pay back the unpaid in payments.......... because she can't even grasp the fact that the money ISN'T HERS! 

 

It's in her hands........... therefore......... IT'S HERS! 

 

Why is this person---the person who made the mistake in the first place---expecting her to give them HER money? (Not give back the money......... just GIVE the money!) 

 

(We have one pending ourselves, right now. We advanced some money to do some roof work, and the guy just stopped showing up. Okay, that happens. But when my wife asks for the advance money back.......... he acts like he has no idea what we're talking about. He has HIS money........ but none of OURS....... even though he's never done the work! ????????????)

 

All kinds of people in the world! 

 

Cheers! 

It has been my experience that with Thai people, once money changes hands---even wrongly---that immediately and automatically becomes THEIR money.

 

you need to remove the word 'thai' from this statement, as this situation is not unique to thailand. in my home country there have been cases of people receiving money by mistake and refusing to return it. this is why banks stress the need to check the accuracy of details when making online transfers.

5 hours ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

My wife and I own a small hotel. This means we need to hire some low-skill, low-wage labor. In eight years of being open, I'd say we've had 3 workers who weren't lazy. Maybe 4.

 

The same room my wife can clean sparkling in 20 minutes........ will take them anywhere from 1 to 2 hours to clean. And usually, not as well. 

 

Can't tell you how many times......... and with how many people........ we'd peek in on them, and there they'd be, gabbing on their cell phones!

 

I also shop at Lotus('s) and Big C.......... and see bunches of people standing around. Thai Watsadu, same thing. HomePro, same thing. Global, same thing. 

 

At Big C, two days ago, I saw a crowd of workers standing around a pallet that was being restacked on to a display. 2 were moving the merchandise; 5 were just standing around, talking; 3 were on their cell phones. 10 people altogether, 2 of which were working! 

 

Yeah, as far as I can see, laziness is NOT uncommon, in Thailand. 

 

Yes, Thailand has some very hard workers. When we had our hotel built, the men and women worked very hard.......... when they worked!

 

In a typical 9 hour day, they actually worked  maybe 3 of them. Yes, they worked hard when they worked. But they spent a lot more time each day NOT working.......... than working! 

 

(My wife finally had to come over and foreman the job every day, so our 3 month building estimate........ would finally get finished by six months!) 

 

And my wife......... who loves her home country......... used to get pretty testy when ~~I~~ would grouse about the wasted time and poor efficiency I'd see. She didn't appreciate my criticism! Oh no, not at all! 555

 

But I could usually shut her up by simply pointing out: There's a reason why America is America, and Thailand is Thailand. And that reason mostly comes down to the kinds of things I was trying to explain to her! 

 

And........ after all these years.......

she finally IS starting to accept that doing it right once......... REALLY IS better than doing it wrong three or four times, and expecting to get paid for it! 

 

(Imagine my dismay when I first came to Thailand and we had a "mechanic" my wife knows come in to replace a leaky pipe under the kitchen sink.

 

When he was "done" and packing up to leave, I pointed out to my wife, "You know, he never even turned on the water to make sure it's working."

 

So, annoyed with ME, she asks the guy to run the water. It leaked just as badly as it had when he arrived! 

 

So the guy fixes it AGAIN. And AGAIN, he gets up, ready to leave, without ever turning on the water! 

 

So, at our request, he does. 

 

And it leaks! . 

 

So, he has to "fix it" yet again [this time successfully!] 

 

But twice he "fixed it" and was preparing to leave.......... without ever even turning the water on! 

 

Ah, Thailand.......! Why do it right once.......... when you can get paid to do it wrong, three or four times! ????????????) 

 

Cheers! 

My wife and I own a small hotel. This means we need to hire some low-skill, low-wage labor. In eight years of being open, I'd say we've had 3 workers who weren't lazy. Maybe 4.

 

maybe you're just not very good at staff recruitment ????

Yup a poster with a whole 150 posts is not someone I would waste time

arguing with.  The woman who lost that kind of money, should get justice.

  I have no sympathy for the woman who spent that money. Being poor is

no excuse for what happened, oh and the poor woman has a bank account

so just how poor is she?

Yep, heard that one before!

So, it looks like a lot of foreigners have came to Thailand and opened the businesses just to find out how lazy almost all Thai people are. And everybody have one and the same story: we are ready to pay a lot for a work of almost doing nothing and still these lazy people refuse to work. I wish I could

ask those Thais what the real story was, I am sure it would be quite different. Anyway. The question is why do you still operate your businesses if there is such a huge problem with hiring people? Or may be it is not a real

problem? Many foreigners come to Thailand and expect these poor third worlders to be happy for every dollar they give them. But when they see instead that local people have some dignity and self respect (and even dare to think they have a right to be lazy) - they then accuse the Thais of being lazy and “lacking initiative”. 
Come on, money is important for

humans, but, contrary to your beliefs - it is not everything.