‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[spidermike007]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

When I was sixteen, most every kid I knew had a rife. We had rifle-team in high school, and we used hallways as practice rangers by piling sand-bags up at one end. 

 

Bus yeah, the problem has to be the guns. 

It is a combination of too many guns and way too many insane Americans, and a society run amok. A lethal combination. 

[James105]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think that those people are dead is a tragedy.

 

Many more kids are killed by teenaged drivers than by mass shootings, why not raise the age of driving to 21? 

Indeed it is a tragedy, but you chose to answer an unrelated question that you presumably asked yourself rather than the one I posed.   Let's try again.   Do you think those 19 kids and 2 adults would be dead today if that nutcase could not "legally" obtain his semi automatic rifle?  

[kbelyeu]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

Stricter gun laws will save lives. Those are the facts not opinions:

 

Mass shootings tripled when the assault weapon ban ended in 2004.

 

States with weaker gun laws have higher rates of firearm related homicides and suicides, study finds

 

Common sense gun safety laws bring down gun crime by 40 percent.

 

Instead of bringing up a new generation of kids normalised to their teachers carrying weapons and reinforcing the gun culture from an early age then you've not only gone down a slippery road you've just fallen off the cliff.

 

 

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

[kbelyeu]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

Indeed it is a tragedy, but you chose to answer an unrelated question that you presumably asked yourself rather than the one I posed.   Let's try again.   Do you think those 19 kids and 2 adults would be dead today if that nutcase could not "legally" obtain his semi automatic rifle?  

So your position is if the nutcase didn't have access to guns none of this would happen?

[James105]

1 minute ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

I didn't realise that God himself wrote the second amendment.   This changes everything.   

[kbelyeu]

20 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I think that those people are dead is a tragedy.

 

Many more kids are killed by teenaged drivers than by mass shootings, why not raise the age of driving to 21? 

I like to use another good example, many many more children are killed by drunk drivers.  I don't hear anyone suggesting we ban cars or alcohol.  

[kbelyeu]

1 minute ago, James105 said:

I didn't realise that God himself wrote the second amendment.   This changes everything.   

Just to clarify, the 2nd amended is a restriction on the US government not an individuals rights.  Maybe you should give it a read.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

Gun owners don't have God given rights. When you provide evidence to the contrary on the links I've supplied feel free to get back to me

[James105]

1 minute ago, kbelyeu said:

So your position is if the nutcase didn't have access to guns none of this would happen?

Let's look at the facts shall we.

 

2021 - nutcase asks his sister to buy him a gun as he was not legally old enough to buy one.  She refused.   Since we know his intention was to massacre kids with the gun then presumably if she had bought him the gun he would have used it then.

 

May 2022 - as soon as he was legally allowed to do so he buys 2 semi automatic rifles.   Used one of these weapons of destruction to massacre 19 kids in their school.

 

It seems that he could not obtain any gun until the law allowed him to.   So yeah I think if he was not allowed to buy the gun there would be 19 kids and 2 teachers alive today.    What do you think?   

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, James105 said:

Indeed it is a tragedy, but you chose to answer an unrelated question that you presumably asked yourself rather than the one I posed.   Let's try again.   Do you think those 19 kids and 2 adults would be dead today if that nutcase could not "legally" obtain his semi automatic rifle?  

Probably. But he could have run the car he wrecked into a crowd somewhere and killed a bunch of people like the other nutter.   

 

 

[James105]

10 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

I like to use another good example, many many more children are killed by drunk drivers.  I don't hear anyone suggesting we ban cars or alcohol.  

If people are driving their cars drunk into classrooms and killing lots of kids in the supposed safety of their classroom I can see how that would be relevant to a discussion about a school massacre with a gun that makes it incredibly easy for someone to carry out said massacre in a school. 

 

How would we event stop that if that is the case?  Do we need more good guys in cars to prevent the bad guys in cars killing the kids?

[James105]

6 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Probably. But he could have run the car he wrecked into a crowd somewhere and killed a bunch of people like the other nutter.   

 

 

If he wanted to do that he could have done so when he was 17 could he not?   The fact he didn't do it suggests that is not the case here.  

[Yellowtail]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Gun owners don't have God given rights. When you provide evidence to the contrary on the links I've supplied feel free to get back to me

Unless you have a belief in God, no one has any God-given rights. If you do believe in God, all rights are God-given. 

[JCauto]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything. 

 

As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns.

 

 

Your predictable "whataboutism" and deflection is trite.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002961022002057

The ban on assault weapons worked. It should be reinstituted. Your attempts to hijack and divert the argument are pathetic.

[Rimmer]

A troll post has been removed

[James105]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So if we change the age to 21, the 19 people would have lived an additional three years, yes? 

Probably their whole lives I would think due to less teenage hormones and the memories of school bullying that would have had time to fade.   Maybe he would have found a job, found a girlfriend or a myriad of other things that happen as people "grow up" and become a little more responsible as the years go on.   School shootings in particular are "typically" carried out by kids under 21, probably due to a bad school experience which is still very fresh in their minds.   That 3 year gap between 18 and 21 would be a 3 year (post school) cool down period.

[kbelyeu]

23 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Gun owners don't have God given rights. When you provide evidence to the contrary on the links I've supplied feel free to get back to me

Come and take it.  /Texas

[JCauto]

27 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

"God-given rights" - you have none. You have rights that were codifed under the constitution. It was written by men, not God. Many of the men were explicitly not religious and this was one of the major attractions of their starting their new country. This is why the separation of church and state was written into that document.

The evidence is clear, the assault gun ban worked. Here it is, not a BS source, University of Tennessee, just published. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002961022002057

[kbelyeu]

11 minutes ago, James105 said:

If people are driving their cars drunk into classrooms and killing lots of kids in the supposed safety of their classroom I can see how that would be relevant to a discussion about a school massacre with a gun that makes it incredibly easy for someone to carry out said massacre in a school. 

 

How would we event stop that if that is the case?  Do we need more good guys in cars to prevent the bad guys in cars killing the kids?

Just so I have this straight, the only important item for you is the manner in which a child is killed.  So drunk drivers are OK but by guns they are not.. thanks for that... makes perfect sense.

 

Secondly, you believe guns would disappear if they were made illegal?  Case in point, illegal drugs.  There has been a war on drugs since the 90's and we are no closer to eliminating drugs than we were then.. they can't even keep illegal drugs out of maximum security jails but you believe they will magically disappear.

[GarryP]

3 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

Still didn't answer my question.. a gun is a tool like a hammer, knife, car, bomb, etc.. you do realize more people are killed each year by hammers than by AR15's.

Never knew that hammers were created for the purpose of killing things. Same with cars and knives. You certainly have some weird ideas that seem not to conform with any logic I've come across before. Next you'll be conflating guns with newspapers because people may die from paper cuts.   

[James105]

3 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

Still didn't answer my question.. a gun is a tool like a hammer, knife, car, bomb, etc.. you do realize more people are killed each year by hammers than by AR15's.

This was your question:

 

"So your position is if the nutcase didn't have access to guns none of this would happen?"

 

I clearly answered it by saying:

 

"It seems that he could not obtain any gun until the law allowed him to.   So yeah I think if he was not allowed to buy the gun there would be 19 kids and 2 teachers alive today.    What do you think?"

 

Ok so now you have moved onto hammers (somewhat ridiculously) but let's go with that.   If the nutcase could only obtain a hammer to carry out his killing spree how many kids do you think he would have killed?   The police did not confront the nutcase for an hour as they were scared of getting shot by his high powered rifle, even wearing body armour.  Do you think they would have been equally scared if he only had a hammer or do you think the reason they were so scared of the gunman is because he was in possession of a legally obtained semi automatic rifle?

[Bkk Brian]

14 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Unless you have a belief in God, no one has any God-given rights. If you do believe in God, all rights are God-given. 

Wrong thread mate you probably need this one:

https://aseannow.com/topic/1095135-do-you-believe-in-god-and-why/

 

[Bkk Brian]

13 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

Come and take it.  /Texas

Something coherent would be useful?

[KanchanaburiGuy]

25 minutes ago, James105 said:

If America really needs its guns to form its "well regulated militias" to help US States prevent the evil British taking over again

250 years ago, a government---the British government, in this case---overstepped the bounds of moral and ethical governance and became tyrannical.

 

This government no longer treated the citizens of the New World as people deserving of equal rights and protections, but started treating them as serfs, servants, and slaves, instead. To put it in terms better defined by Marx and Engels some time later, the people of the New World started being viewed by the British government as nothing more than Capital----Capital to be exploited by an elite Ruling Class. 

 

Turns out, The Governed  didn't necessarily mind being governed, but they absolutely did object to being used and abused! 

 

What followed, of course, was the American Revolutionary War.----a war fought primarily by people who brought their own  "Arms" into battle, whatever those Arms happened to be. 

 

This is how the Thirteen Colonies......... became the United States of America. 

 

Honestly, I don't think you'll find many Americans worried about evil xxxxxxxx (you said British) "taking over" America. Especially when you remember that that wasn't how it happened the first time around!

 

No, the concern is.......... and always has been............. the threat from within: The government overstepping the bounds of moral and ethical governance, and becoming heavy-handed and tyrannical.............just like the British had 250 years ago............ and just like many others have, many, many times since then!

 

(Of much smaller concern has been the possibility of an internal coup. And until Jan 6th, 2021, I think most Americans thought this was not just unlikely........ but well nigh on to impossible. Now, though? I think a serious "maybe" has wormed its way into the conversation!) 

 

So, perhaps you might understand that for Americans, these suggestions that we give MORE control to the government......... and leave the citizens with almost no ability to resist them......... (should that ever become necessary and appropriate).....… meets with a lot of deep-rooted resistance! 

 

And as a person who was in Thailand 8 years and 8 days ago when the latest coup occurred............ I remember vividly that the Coup........ could....... have gone......... a............ very........ different.......... way!

 

Americans, as a rule.......... even after Jan 6th........... are not worried too much about coups and invasions. What they worry about is the slow creep of tyranny eventually making the government uncontrollable and untouchable. 

 

And in the end.......... given what our own history and others tells us........... what benefit is there to letting the government be the ONLY ONE able to put up a fight? 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything. 

 

As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns.

Of all the inane posts I've read in this and similar threads yours is by far the worst.

 

"Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything."

 

The Dems clearly state every time there's another atrocity what needs to be done and every time they're blocked by the GOP. EVERY TIME!

 

"As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns."

 

Every time the Dems try to introduce some form of gun control measure they're blocked by the GOP. EVERY TIME!

 

Only a person completely lost in a different reality could write a post like yours. You should reach out and try to get some help.

[KhunLA]

2 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Never knew that hammers were created for the purpose of killing things. Same with cars and knives. You certainly have some weird ideas that seem not to conform with any logic I've come across before. Next you'll be conflating guns with newspapers because people may die from paper cuts.   

Firearms were created to protect & feed people, not kill innocent people. IMHO

 

You can't control how any machine or product is used by unstable people.  People have and always will be the problem.  Don't think any product has ever killed anyone, till used, misused by the purchaser.  IMHO

 

 

[kbelyeu]

10 minutes ago, JCauto said:

"God-given rights" - you have none. You have rights that were codifed under the constitution. It was written by men, not God. Many of the men were explicitly not religious and this was one of the major attractions of their starting their new country. This is why the separation of church and state was written into that document.

The evidence is clear, the assault gun ban worked. Here it is, not a BS source, University of Tennessee, just published. 

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0002961022002057

You do not have constitutional rights, you just have rights.  We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.  Unalienable: not capable of being repudiated.

Come and take it!

[kbelyeu]

12 minutes ago, James105 said:

This was your question:

 

"So your position is if the nutcase didn't have access to guns none of this would happen?"

 

I clearly answered it by saying:

 

"It seems that he could not obtain any gun until the law allowed him to.   So yeah I think if he was not allowed to buy the gun there would be 19 kids and 2 teachers alive today.    What do you think?"

 

Ok so now you have moved onto hammers (somewhat ridiculously) but let's go with that.   If the nutcase could only obtain a hammer to carry out his killing spree how many kids do you think he would have killed?   The police did not confront the nutcase for an hour as they were scared of getting shot by his high powered rifle, even wearing body armour.  Do you think they would have been equally scared if he only had a hammer or do you think the reason they were so scared of the gunman is because he was in possession of a legally obtained semi automatic rifle?

Well he had 60 minutes before the police entered the building, my guess would be all of them.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, kbelyeu said:

LOL.. its actually much more common than you think but since you have already made up your mind..  How many times have you been proven correct in this "theory"?

LOL.  The reason your one example made international news is because it is so rare.  Prove me wrong; provide more examples.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

No, he spoke the truth, if the guy had been white shooting up a school with hispanic kids the narrative would be different.

You mean like the time in 2019 when a far right white guy shot up a Texas Walmart because it had a lot of Hispanic customers and killed 23 people?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_El_Paso_shooting

 

Other than that crime being declared a hate crime, which it clearly was, how was the narrative different?