‘America is killing itself’: world reacts with horror and incomprehension to Texas shooting

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Of course it is. But again,  assault rifles R 15 only account for a small fraction of gun deaths does, does it?

 

Why do we only care about the comparatively tine number of people killed by assault rifles, and not about the tens of thousands killed by other firearms?

 

Enforcing existing laws would save a lot more lives than adding a few more useless laws to the books that only seem to punish the law-abiding poor and middle class. 

More children and teens are killed by firearms in the US than by any other cause:  https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/guns-leading-cause-death-children-teens-rcna25443

 

We care about all people, especially young people, who are killed by guns.  Unfortunately it is so common that it only generates a brief period of national rage and discussion after an exceptionally murderous mass shooting, such as this one.

 

What existing laws would have prevented this tragedy?  What existing laws do you think are not being sufficiently enforced?

[heybruce]

47 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

God given rights?   Did Jesus preach about the right to bear arms?  Is it in the Ten Commandments?  Did the Garden of Eden have guns?  Does any major religion worship a gun-toting deity?

 

On what do you base your speculation that lives will be lost if there are fewer guns in society?

[heybruce]

10 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

250 years ago, a government---the British government, in this case---overstepped the bounds of moral and ethical governance and became tyrannical.

 

This government no longer treated the citizens of the New World as people deserving of equal rights and protections, but started treating them as serfs, servants, and slaves, instead. To put it in terms better defined by Marx and Engels some time later, the people of the New World started being viewed by the British government as nothing more than Capital----Capital to be exploited by an elite Ruling Class. 

 

Turns out, The Governed  didn't necessarily mind being governed, but they absolutely did object to being used and abused! 

 

What followed, of course, was the American Revolutionary War.----a war fought primarily by people who brought their own  "Arms" into battle, whatever those Arms happened to be. 

 

This is how the Thirteen Colonies......... became the United States of America. 

 

Honestly, I don't think you'll find many Americans worried about evil xxxxxxxx (you said British) "taking over" America. Especially when you remember that that wasn't how it happened the first time around!

 

No, the concern is.......... and always has been............. the threat from within: The government overstepping the bounds of moral and ethical governance, and becoming heavy-handed and tyrannical.............just like the British had 250 years ago............ and just like many others have, many, many times since then!

 

(Of much smaller concern has been the possibility of an internal coup. And until Jan 6th, 2021, I think most Americans thought this was not just unlikely........ but well nigh on to impossible. Now, though? I think a serious "maybe" has wormed its way into the conversation!) 

 

So, perhaps you might understand that for Americans, these suggestions that we give MORE control to the government......... and leave the citizens with almost no ability to resist them......... (should that ever become necessary and appropriate).....… meets with a lot of deep-rooted resistance! 

 

And as a person who was in Thailand 8 years and 8 days ago when the latest coup occurred............ I remember vividly that the Coup........ could....... have gone......... a............ very........ different.......... way!

 

Americans, as a rule.......... even after Jan 6th........... are not worried too much about coups and invasions. What they worry about is the slow creep of tyranny eventually making the government uncontrollable and untouchable. 

 

And in the end.......... given what our own history and others tells us........... what benefit is there to letting the government be the ONLY ONE able to put up a fight? 

 

Cheers! 

 

 

I could write many pages about the different historical context of guns in the late 18th century and today.  I will just point out that if the authors of the US Constitution could have foreseen how cheap, lethal, and unnecessary guns would become, the 2nd Amendment would have been written very differently.

[James105]

1 minute ago, kbelyeu said:

Well he had 60 minutes before the police entered the building, my guess would be all of them.

So your position is that a nutcase with a hammer can kill as many kids as a nutcase with a high powered semi automatic rifle with thousands of bullets?  I can only presume this is parody at this point?  

[GarryP]

6 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Firearms were created to protect & feed people, not kill innocent people. IMHO

 

You can't control how any machine or product is used by unstable people.  People have and always will be the problem.  Don't think any product has ever killed anyone, till used, misused by the purchaser.  IMHO

 

 

Not arguing with that. What I am arguing with is people inferring that if we ban assault rifles, then we should also ban hammers, cars and knives because they have also been used to kill. This false equivalence is ridiculous. A paper clip could kill you as could a toothpick, should we ban those too? Where will this insanity stop? 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So why is Chuck Schumer refusing to bring it to the floor? 

 

Still, the legislation does nothing to address the tens of thousands of black men killed every year, does it?

 

Try again. 

"So why is Chuck Schumer refusing to bring it to the floor?"

 

So when the Dems don't bring it to the floor because obviously it would be dead on arrival it's "doing nothing" and when they bring a doomed proposal to the floor it's "grandstanding". OK, gotcha!

 

"Still, the legislation does nothing to address the tens of thousands of black men killed every year, does it?"

 

Would love to debate that but this thread is about the scores of children murdered every year because America has a sick gun fetish. But why don't you go ahead and open up another thread on that subject.

 

I would like to add that I just love the way these threads let the MAGA crowd discover that they do have a social conscience. Who knew that they felt such profound sadness for all the black lives needlessly lost every year. Dear I say they've discovered that black lives matter?

 

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Of all the inane posts I've read in this and similar threads yours is by far the worst.

 

"Yes, the left loves the little school kids that get shot, and they want to do all they can to stop the killings, but they never get from the wanting to do something, to outlining exactly what it is they want to do. They play the same tire chin-music after every shooting, but never do anything."

 

The Dems clearly state every time there's another atrocity what needs to be done and every time they're blocked by the GOP. EVERY TIME!

 

"As much as the left cares about the kids (at least the ones they can't stop from being born) getting shot, it is interesting that the left does not seem to give a whit about the tens of thousands of young black men killed each year with hand-guns."

 

Every time the Dems try to introduce some form of gun control measure they're blocked by the GOP. EVERY TIME!

 

Only a person completely lost in a different reality could write a post like yours. You should reach out and try to get some help.

So the tens of thousands of black men (and kids)  killed every year by guns are not a tragedy, but when a school gets shot up coming up an on election, it is a tragedy, got it. 

 

Thanks!

[kbelyeu]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

So your position is that a nutcase with a hammer can kill as many kids as a nutcase with a high powered semi automatic rifle with thousands of bullets?  I can only presume this is parody at this point?  

nah.. my position is its a tool and this nutcase would have used whatever was available to do his bidding.. have a nice day.

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

God given rights?? ???? When you write such utter drivel it's clear for all to see there is absolutely no point in debating you.

 

PS. Did you miss that part in your bible where it says you should turn the other cheek?

 

[Phoenix Rising]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So the tens of thousands of black men (and kids)  killed every year by guns are not a tragedy, but when a school gets shot up coming up an on election, it is a tragedy, got it. 

 

Thanks!

1. I can see reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

2. Again, it warms my heart how you've turned into a champion for Black Lives Matter. Well done, Sir!

[James105]

2 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

nah.. my position is its a tool and this nutcase would have used whatever was available to do his bidding.. have a nice day.

You know the police cowered outside the classroom for an hour letting kids bleed out as they were scared of getting shot by a high powered semi automatic rifle... right?  Do you think they would have been so scared if the nutcase was only armed with... a hammer?  Do you not think that most if not all the kids would be alive if he was only armed with a hammer?   What kind of hammer are you talking about - Thor's Hammer or a normal hammer? 

[fredwiggy]

3 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

God given rights?? ???? When you write such utter drivel it's clear for all to see there is absolutely no point in debating you.

 

PS. Did you miss that part in your bible where it says you should turn the other cheek?

 

Turning the other cheek does not work against pure evil. Stopping something over a foolish argument, a few words said and the like, yes. Evil has to be exterminated, and is the reason the world is in the state it's in. Letting others control and destroy others with no retribution is exactly why it's getting worse on earth.

[coolcarer]

29 minutes ago, kbelyeu said:

Well he had 60 minutes before the police entered the building, my guess would be all of them.

You guess that if he walked in with a hammer the police would have waited for 60 minutes for him to kill all the children. Get a grip and think before you talk nonsense

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

Of course it is. But again,  assault rifles R 15 only account for a small fraction of gun deaths does, does it?

 

Why do we only care about the comparatively tine number of people killed by assault rifles, and not about the tens of thousands killed by other firearms?

 

Enforcing existing laws would save a lot more lives than adding a few more useless laws to the books that only seem to punish the law-abiding poor and middle class. 

Again a deflection. The salient issue is MASS shootings where your assertion is false.

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

God gave people the right to own guns? This is the nub of the problem. Conflating religion and gun ownership is beyond insane.

[Hanuman2547]

2 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Most police forces use AR-15 style weapons, and fully automatic, along with shotguns and handguns.

Most, if not all law enforcement agencies i.e. City police, County Sheriff, and State police, do NOT use fully automatic weapons.  They use semi-automatic firearms.  There is a very huge difference between the two.  

[ozimoron]

30 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Not arguing with that. What I am arguing with is people inferring that if we ban assault rifles, then we should also ban hammers, cars and knives because they have also been used to kill. This false equivalence is ridiculous. A paper clip could kill you as could a toothpick, should we ban those too? Where will this insanity stop? 

It won't. A drowning man will clutch at any straw going.

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Turning the other cheek does not work against pure evil. Stopping something over a foolish argument, a few words said and the like, yes. Evil has to be exterminated, and is the reason the world is in the state it's in. Letting others control and destroy others with no retribution is exactly why it's getting worse on earth.

The pure evil in this case being an 18 year old walking in with a legally purchased assault rifle. The parents of the children killed may view his purchase and use of the rifle as the catalyst and cause of this evil act. 

[Phoenix Rising]

21 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Turning the other cheek does not work against pure evil. Stopping something over a foolish argument, a few words said and the like, yes. Evil has to be exterminated, and is the reason the world is in the state it's in. Letting others control and destroy others with no retribution is exactly why it's getting worse on earth.

" Evil has to be exterminated..."

 

And in the mean time we'll have to restrict evil's access to weapons.

 

"Letting others control and destroy others with no retribution is exactly why it's getting worse on earth."

 

I agree, and since a large majority of Americans are for gun control measures the gun lobby needs to be defeated ASAP!

[Sydebolle]

1 hour ago, Will B Good said:

Tell those gun-loving pr1cks to carry on the good work. It was, is and remains irresponsible to allow private citizen the ownership of guns without proven training by professionals. 

Even better; thank you ???? 

[KhunLA]

34 minutes ago, GarryP said:

Where will this insanity stop? 

Maybe if parents actually took an interest in being parents, and raised their kids properly, instead of trying to be their friend.  They don't need friends, they need guidance & discipline.

 

That's if the kids even have 1 or 2 parents in their life.  

 

You wouldn't catch me talking back to my mother (not that I would) if my father was in the same room.  The belt would be in his hand and on my butt.

 

Today, if parents yell at their kids in public, it seems to be reported as child abuse, let alone smacking the little sh!ts.  

[James105]

1 hour ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

No, the concern is.......... and always has been............. the threat from within: The government overstepping the bounds of moral and ethical governance, and becoming heavy-handed and tyrannical.............just like the British had 250 years ago............ and just like many others have, many, many times since then!

 

Not sure if you are aware, but your government has access to fighter jets, tanks, warships and tactical nuclear missiles.    You are going to need bigger guns if that "really" is the reason you think you need them.   

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe if parents actually took an interest in being parents, and raised their kids properly, instead of trying to be their friend.  They don't need friends, they need guidance & discipline.

 

That's if the kids even have 1 or 2 parents in their life.  

 

You wouldn't catch me talking back to my mother (not that I would) if my father was in the same room.  The belt would be in his hand and on my butt.

 

Today, if parents yell at their kids in public, it seems to be reported as child abuse, let alone smacking the little sh!ts.  

Whether children have 1 or 2 parents is utterly irrelevant and just another right wing talking point to excuse guns as being the problem. There is no issue of 2 parents being better than one. If you think there is, start another thread and demonstrate that.

 

There is a reason why beating children is considered child abuse these days.

[James105]

9 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe if parents actually took an interest in being parents, and raised their kids properly, instead of trying to be their friend.  They don't need friends, they need guidance & discipline.

 

That's if the kids even have 1 or 2 parents in their life.  

 

You wouldn't catch me talking back to my mother (not that I would) if my father was in the same room.  The belt would be in his hand and on my butt.

 

Today, if parents yell at their kids in public, it seems to be reported as child abuse, let alone smacking the little sh!ts.  

Is that a problem unique to America or do you think that other countries face similar issues with their kids?   If other countries face the same issues, why is it do you think that other countries do not experience the regular massacre of school kids by armed nutcases carrying high powered and legally obtained semi automatic rifles?   

[Stubby]

On 5/26/2022 at 8:37 AM, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

Sadly, a lot of schools got rid or police officers on campus as part of the "Defund the Police" movement.

Do you even realize just how fckued up that sounds? Why on earth should schools need fortifying by armed guards in the first place? For cyring out loud!!! Wouldn't it be better to put an end to the crazy gun rights?

[KanchanaburiGuy]

39 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I could write many pages about the different historical context of guns in the late 18th century and today.  I will just point out that if the authors of the US Constitution could have foreseen how cheap, lethal, and unnecessary guns would become, the 2nd Amendment would have been written very differently.

Or, they still would have recognized that "The Right to Keep and Bear Arms" is not a fashion statement, but a recognition of a much bigger principle. 

 

Seems to me, them recognizing it as a Right........... speaks volumes.

 

It seems unlikely that anyone who would recognize it as a Right would then say, "Because they are cheap and easy to get, now it isn't one!"

 

Generally, people who make decisions based on principles............. make very different decisions............ than those who are just reacting emotionally to tragic circumstamces.

 

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights are, first and foremost, documents based on PRINCIPLES.

 

Principles are what you get down  to through reason and logic, after emotionality releases its grip! 

 

Cheers! 

[KanchanaburiGuy]

17 minutes ago, James105 said:

Not sure if you are aware, but your government has access to fighter jets, tanks, warships and tactical nuclear missiles.    You are going to need bigger guns if that "really" is the reason you think you need them.   

If you think that matters as much as you seem to............ you haven't been paying attention. Other than the "First Gulf War," there hasn't been a conflict since Vietnam where that made all that much difference. 

 

Remember: the British came into the Revolutionary War as the best trained, best equipped, most fearsome army and navy in the world........ and lost. 

 

We went into Vietnam with the same status........... and lost. 

 

We and the Soviets both went into Afghanistan with roughly the same status........... and lost. 

 

Firepower is great. Determination and clever tactics........... are even better.

 

If you don't believe me, ask Putin. 

 

Cheers! 

[LarrySR]

2 hours ago, kbelyeu said:

How many lives will be lost when the left attempts to take away gun owners god given rights?  How many is too many?  Will you participate in the gun round up?  

God gave you gun rights?

By the way, there is no god. 

[LarrySR]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

God given rights?? ???? When you write such utter drivel it's clear for all to see there is absolutely no point in debating you.

 

 

Jesus Mary and Joseph were poor Middle East immigrants. 
Todays Christian conservatives would lock baby Jesus in a cage and deport the parents to a war zone. 

[Phoenix Rising]

51 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Maybe if parents actually took an interest in being parents, and raised their kids properly, instead of trying to be their friend.  They don't need friends, they need guidance & discipline.

 

That's if the kids even have 1 or 2 parents in their life.  

 

You wouldn't catch me talking back to my mother (not that I would) if my father was in the same room.  The belt would be in his hand and on my butt.

 

Today, if parents yell at their kids in public, it seems to be reported as child abuse, let alone smacking the little sh!ts.  

OK, so parents in other comparable countries (I'm beginning to wonder if one can even say that anymore) do stricter parenting, it's not access to weapons designed for mass murder at all....