Harris calls for 'assault weapons ban' in wake of mass shootings; Biden arrives in Uvalde

[chalawaan]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:26 PM, wombat said:

guns don't kill people ...people kill people.
a bullet killed JFK...no one blamed the bullet.

 

People using guns kill people. What an idiotic statement. As if that brings back the dead. 

I wonder how you'd feel about guns if your kids were being buried in Texas this week? 

I lost a close friend and wingman last year. His home was invaded in MD. He was a 15 year veteran reserve officer and pro-gun firearms expert. His guns didn't save him. 

I served in an African bush war as a youngster. I will happily never carry a weapon again. And won't live in a country where they're revered.

[Chomper Higgot]

8 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Politicians  need protection because there's probably some loony who wants to kill them , high profile people need protection . 

  If none of the public had guns, then no one would need guns .

Its quite understandable that Trump wants to ban weapons and also have an armed guard himself , because the normal guy in the street isnt going to get assassinated by a loony

So banning guns does work.

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, Credo said:

He's not a hypocrite?   After the Parkland school shooting, this is what he said:

 

‘Take the guns first. Go through due process second, I like taking the guns early,’

 

Here's the full quote:

 

“Or, Mike, take the firearms first and then go to court, because that’s another system. Because a lot of times, by the time you go to court, it takes so long to go to court, to get the due process procedures. I like taking the guns early. Like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida, he had a lot of firearms – they saw everything – to go to court would have taken a long time, so you could do exactly what you’re saying, but take the guns first, go through due process second.”

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/10/14/fact-check-trump-made-comment-taking-guns-without-due-process/6070319001/

 

Do you disagree with what he said? 

[Chomper Higgot]

40 minutes ago, digger70 said:

One can see mass murder everyday inLos with cars and motorbikes .

Stop making  excuses that guns kill people. 

Its People that Kill may it be with whatever they use .

False equivalence.

 

Road accidents (the clue is in the name) are not deliberate mass murder.

 

 

[PoodThaiMaiDai]

On 5/30/2022 at 2:00 PM, Chomper Higgot said:

Let’s take the gun lobby at its word, ‘guns don’t kill people, people kill people’ and latterly ‘mental illness is the cause of gun violence’.

 

If these two statements are true, why the objection to background checks?

 

Why the objection to denying gun ownership to people with a record of violence?

 

Why the objections to denying gun ownership to people suffering mental illness?

 

 

These laws are already in place.

 

It is the media and politicians that make it sound like there are no back ground checks.

 

LINK

 

There are some loop holes but they don't discuss that these are loop holes and it adds confusion because it looks like there are no systems in place.

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

These laws are already in place.

 

It is the media and politicians that make it sound like there are no back ground checks.

 

LINK

 

There are some loop holes but they don't discuss that these are loop holes and it adds confusion because it looks like there are no systems in place.

We know ‘superficial checks’ exist in Federal law and that even ‘superficial checks’ are not universally applied.

 

 

[coolcarer]

14 minutes ago, PoodThaiMaiDai said:

These laws are already in place.

 

It is the media and politicians that make it sound like there are no back ground checks.

 

LINK

 

There are some loop holes but they don't discuss that these are loop holes and it adds confusion because it looks like there are no systems in place.

The laws on background checks are useless to those who don’t want one carried out. They can just visit one of the many gun shows where thousands of weapons are on sale and buy what he wants legally with no background check whatsoever. Known as the “Gun Show Loophole”.

 

Also applies to private sellers. You can buy one with no background check.

[Yellowtail]

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

We know ‘superficial checks’ exist in Federal law and that even ‘superficial checks’ are not universally applied.

 

The checks are done by the Federal government, if the checks are indeed "superficial", how is they are not able to make the checks more rigorous? They can and should be constantly reviewing and improving the process, yes? 

 

They (the federal government) do not even bother to prosecute people that lie on the forms or fail the checks over and over.

 

But yes, NOW with this new legislation they are going to do much better, THIS TIME FOR SURE!!!!

 

Only a very small percentage of legal gun transfers are exempt to background checks, but you already know this, yes? 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The checks are done by the Federal government, if the checks are indeed "superficial", how is they are not able to make the checks more rigorous? They can and should be constantly reviewing and improving the process, yes? 

 

They (the federal government) do not even bother to prosecute people that lie on the forms or fail the checks over and over.

 

But yes, NOW with this new legislation they are going to do much better, THIS TIME FOR SURE!!!!

 

Only a very small percentage of legal gun transfers are exempt to background checks, but you already know this, yes? 

‘Federal Government’ is not entirely accurate.

 

There are two chambers of Federal Government, one of which is currently blocking all attempts at changing gun laws.

 

 

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

The laws on background checks are useless to those who don’t want one carried out. They can just visit one of the many gun shows where thousands of weapons are on sale and buy what he wants legally with no background check whatsoever. Known as the “Gun Show Loophole”.

 

Also applies to private sellers. You can buy one with no background check.

Correction, the exemption does not also apply to private sellers, it ONLY applies to private sellers.  Commercial sellers must have a federal background check completed by the Justice department. 

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

The laws on background checks are useless to those who don’t want one carried out. They can just visit one of the many gun shows where thousands of weapons are on sale and buy what he wants legally with no background check whatsoever. Known as the “Gun Show Loophole”.

 

Also applies to private sellers. You can buy one with no background check.

Correct, but here’s a thing.

 

The Second Amendment says absolutely nothing about Government controlling where guns may be bought and sold.

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Correction, the exemption does not also apply to private sellers, it ONLY applies to private sellers.  Commercial sellers must have a federal background check completed by the Justice department. 

A woefully inadequate’Federal Background Check’.

[coolcarer]

8 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The checks are done by the Federal government, if the checks are indeed "superficial", how is they are not able to make the checks more rigorous? They can and should be constantly reviewing and improving the process, yes? 

Only a very small percentage of legal gun transfers are exempt to background checks, but you already know this, yes? 

Do you know how many guns are bought legally with no background checks at gun shows, online, through newspaper ads or privately, just wondering where you have this info that it’s a very small proportion?

[Yellowtail]

7 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

‘Federal Government’ is not entirely accurate.

 

There are two chambers of Federal Government, one of which is currently blocking all attempts at changing gun laws.

 

 

Nice try, but firearms and background checks are done by the Justice Department. 

 

The law does not need to be changed to make the background checks more rigorous...

 

And again, they do not typically prosecute people that lie on the forms or try to buy guns illegally now, why will that change?

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A woefully inadequate’Federal Background Check’.

Performed by a woefully inadequate Merrick Garland.

[coolcarer]

10 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Correction, the exemption does not also apply to private sellers, it ONLY applies to private sellers.  Commercial sellers must have a federal background check completed by the Justice department. 

Details all here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

[coolcarer]

7 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Nice try, but firearms and background checks are done by the Justice Department. 

 

The law does not need to be changed to make the background checks more rigorous...

 

And again, they do not typically prosecute people that lie on the forms or try to buy guns illegally now, why will that change?

Much more complicated than that, they are certainly not all carried out by the Justice Dept

Weakness in the background check system

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/dangerous-gaps-gun-laws-exposed-coronavirus-gun-sale-surge/

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Do you know how many guns are bought legally with no background checks at gun shows, online, through newspaper ads or privately, just wondering where you have this info that it’s a very small proportion?

You'll likely regurgitate the 40% lie from the ridiculous '97 study, but one would be hard-pressed to show where "private sellers" are getting enough guns to make up even 10% of total sales. 

 

Anyone that is making a business of selling guns and is not performing background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

 

Anyone that sells a gun to someone they believe would not pass a background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You'll likely regurgitate the 40% lie from the ridiculous '97 study, but one would be hard-pressed to show where "private sellers" are getting enough guns to make up even 10% of total sales. 

 

Anyone that is making a business of selling guns and is not performing background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

 

Anyone that sells a gun to someone they believe would not pass a background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

Gun-show loophole... 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_background_check

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by richard_smith237

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

One can see mass murder everyday inLos with cars and motorbikes .

Stop making  excuses that guns kill people. 

Its People that Kill may it be with whatever they use .

Oh dear, that first sentence screams of desperation.

 

Denying the truth by saying ''guns don't kill people'', as the nra does, is an excuse.

 

Well deflection.

 

Guns kill people.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Yellowtail]

19 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Details all here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loophole

Thanks, exactly as I said. From your link:

 

"Under federal law, for sales of firearms by holders of a Federal Firearms License (FFL), such as gun stores, pawn shops, outdoors stores and other licensees, the seller must perform a background check of the buyer, and record the sale, regardless of whether the sale takes place at the seller's regular place of business or at a gun show."

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So banning guns does work.

Well, if people haven't got any guns, then they cannot shoot them 

[coolcarer]

44 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Thanks, exactly as I said. From your link:

 

"Under federal law, for sales of firearms by holders of a Federal Firearms License (FFL), such as gun stores, pawn shops, outdoors stores and other licensees, the seller must perform a background check of the buyer, and record the sale, regardless of whether the sale takes place at the seller's regular place of business or at a gun show."

Yet that is not the section that pertains to the Gun Show loop hole where you can legally buy firearms with zero background check. 
 

Gun show loophole is a political term in the United States referring to the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, that do not require the seller to conduct a federal background check of the buyer. This is also called the private sale exemption.^[1][2] Under federal law, any person may sell a firearm to a federally unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.^[3]

[coolcarer]

51 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You'll likely regurgitate the 40% lie from the ridiculous '97 study, but one would be hard-pressed to show where "private sellers" are getting enough guns to make up even 10% of total sales. 

 

Anyone that is making a business of selling guns and is not performing background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

 

Anyone that sells a gun to someone they believe would not pass a background checks is committing a felony and should be convicted to the full extent of the law. 

I had no intention of regurgitating anything, I asked you a simple question to your claim that it’s only a very small proportion that are sold with no background checks, it seems you have nothing to back that up despite the study you mention and disregard as a lie.

 

Thats all I need to know thank you

[Photoguy21]

On 5/30/2022 at 11:53 AM, ozimoron said:

They don't. People kill people, guns make it easier.

Try throwing a bullet at someone and see what effect it has

[Bluespunk]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

 

 

certainly would like to see much stricter regulation on who can buy guns, how many they can buy, reintroduce the Clinton legislation from the 90s on assault weapons and make it permanent. 

 

Just thoughts of course...I'm sure the VP has more restrictive and potent legislation in mind.

 

Which of course I would support.

[Yellowtail]

9 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Yet that is not the section that pertains to the Gun Show loop hole where you can legally buy firearms with zero background check. 
 

Gun show loophole is a political term in the United States referring to the sale of firearms by private sellers, including those done at gun shows, that do not require the seller to conduct a federal background check of the buyer. This is also called the private sale exemption.^[1][2] Under federal law, any person may sell a firearm to a federally unlicensed resident of the state where they reside, as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe that the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms.^[3]

The "Gun-Show Loophole" issue is a fraud. 

 

Again, how would private sellers be getting weapons in significant numbers to sell? Unless they are licensed, a background check would have to be done on every one they buy, and if they are licensed, they would have to do a background check on anyone they transfer a gun to,.

 

Even individual collectors/enthusiasts are often licensed, and would be required to do a background check.

 

But to be clear, I don't care if they close  "gun-show loophole". If you want a

father to have to do a background check on his daughter to give her a .22, go for it.  

 

But then they should absolutely make the checks free, and prosecute the people that lie on the forms.  

 

Anyone that is not qualified to purchase a firearm that attempts to buy one should be prosecuted as well. 

[Lacessit]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

Civilian Americans own 46% of the entire gun population of the world, some 393 million firearms. Excluding suicides, there were 20,000 murders using guns in America in 2021.

Australia had 35 in the same year. Population 23 million.

Is the proposition less guns = less murders too complex for you?

As for the other guns, they are probably waiting for a child to find them.

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The "Gun-Show Loophole" issue is a fraud. 

 

Again, how would private sellers be getting weapons in significant numbers to sell? Unless they are licensed, a background check would have to be done on every one they buy, and if they are licensed, they would have to do a background check on anyone they transfer a gun to,.

 

Even individual collectors/enthusiasts are often licensed, and would be required to do a background check.

 

But to be clear, I don't care if they close  "gun-show loophole". If you want a

father to have to do a background check on his daughter to give her a .22, go for it.  

 

But then they should absolutely make the checks free, and prosecute the people that lie on the forms.  

 

Anyone that is not qualified to purchase a firearm that attempts to buy one should be prosecuted as well. 

Hows it a fraud? its what it says it is, a loop hole in the law.

 

Gun show in the US and BBC reporter approaching unregistered dealer where he can legally purchase a firearm with no background check if he lived in the same state. Relevant section at video at 1:44

 

The seller even admits he could be lied to but he would still sell the gun.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Moonlover]

On 5/30/2022 at 9:24 AM, wombat said:

#NB...they aint assault weapons...they aint got a chrome bore.

You could try going and explaining that to the victim's families, or even to Ms. Harris herself, but I doubt you'll get a very sympathetic hearing.