Trump’s Vision for a Government Overhaul with RFK Jr. and Elon Musk Gaining Power

[Credo]

Reading through this thread is enlightening.  Here's how it seems to work with the gun supporters.  First, point out how the statistics really aren't accurate.  One person even argues about how many children  shouldn't be considered children.  What next, do you want to redefine what it means to be dead?

 

If changing the facts doesn't work, then minimize the truth.  Move on to how many children (suddenly they agree on what a child is) from disease or some other event. First, cast doubt on the facts, then deflect.   Oh, and don't forget to bring up that some of those were accidents or suicides.  Then bring up how many people are killed by deer -- although I don't know too many cases where deer were chasing and killing people who weren't pursuing them with a weapon.

 

Here's the undeniable truth.  In all those gun violence deaths, there was a gun.  No matter how you cut it the gun is the problem.   

[billd766]

2 hours ago, vandeventer said:

I never have given up on God as God has been with me all my life, in Vietnam when soldiers were shot all around me and when I was stuck in India with only 25 dollars in my pocket and had to hitch hike to Germany to fined work God has been for me and I hope for you too.

There are thousands of gods worldwide and each has its believers and detractors.

 

If you believe that your god is the best, then good for you.

 

However others believe their god is the best too.

[rudi49jr]

18 minutes ago, billd766 said:

However others believe their god is the best too.

That’s the problem with religions, many believers feel superior and find it perfectly acceptable to force their beliefs and views on others who believe differently, and if necessary kill them all (or at least make their lives very difficult) if they don’t want to convert. 

[rudi49jr]

This year alone, 239 mass shootings so far, in 155 days. That's more than 10 per week. And still the Republican senators and representatives refuse to do anything about it, even though a vast majority of the people, even gun owners, are in favor of more gun control. Madness.

[LarrySR]

2 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

That’s the problem with religions, many believers feel superior and find it perfectly acceptable to force their beliefs and views on others who believe differently, and if necessary kill them all (or at least make their lives very difficult) if they don’t want to convert. 

He’s convinced, the god they told him was real when he was a child in HIS Sunday school, in HIS home town is the real thing. 
The 17,999 other gods that others learn about in THEIR home towns are fake. 
This is the type of indoctrination that sets one up for a life without critical thinking skills. 
If he had been born in India he would be here telling us how great his cow is. 

Is it any wonder he now watches Fox and not clever enough to realize it’s fake? Or he hasn’t figured out that Donald Trump is a con man and a big crybaby that lost the election. 
Probably thinks the earth is 6,000 years old too. It’s in the scriptures! Ya know the scriptures written by goat farmers 3,000 years ago. 
The United States of fools is in big trouble. 
 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by LarrySR

[LarrySR]

5 hours ago, vandeventer said:

I am sorry to hear that, I hope you find God again as he is real and humans well not so real.

Your god is a “he”?

Interesting. Is you identify god a biological “male” or did you assign a pronoun?

 

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by LarrySR

[heybruce]

7 hours ago, vandeventer said:

You have been watching too shows like the View, this is all BS Remember when America falls in the deepest of holes with Biden and his team of inexperience cumquats, stop digging. I wish there was one thing right that Biden has done right but I can't think of any, could you?

Off-topic, but not being Trump is a huge plus for Biden.  Also he got through the infrastructure bill that was all talk and no substance under Trump (much like his many other promises), unemployment is at record lows, he has re-invigorated NATO and kept Ukraine alive, etc.

[LarrySR]

Lets talk about the irony that the people who for the past 2 years were crying about the "traumatizing psychological effects" of wearing masks to school, now want children to wear ballistic vests in case of a shooting and watch their teachers carry guns & shoot someone in front of them.

 

Edited June 5, 2022 by LarrySR

[vandeventer]

9 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Lots of religious American soldiers who firmly believed in god went to Vietnam. So why did quite a few of them get killed? Seems rather arbitrary that god would spare you, but not them, seeing as how you were all more or less equally religious.

They say only the good die young and most who went there were young. I know you are looking for answers and one day you will have them but not from me.

[bangon04]

11 hours ago, vandeventer said:

I never have given up on God as God has been with me all my life, in Vietnam when soldiers were shot all around me and when I was stuck in India with only 25 dollars in my pocket and had to hitch hike to Germany to fined work God has been for me and I hope for you too.

I hope you buy a lottery ticket every chance you get........

[bangon04]

10 hours ago, Credo said:

Here's the undeniable truth.  In all those gun violence deaths, there was a gun.  No matter how you cut it the gun is the problem.   

In the european countries with strict gun control...   how many (running away) children can a crazy guy with a very big kitchen knife kill before the police finally arrive? 

Compare this to how many children he can kill with an AR-15 and a thousand rounds in high capacity magazines........

[billd766]

11 hours ago, LarrySR said:

Your god is a “he”?

Interesting. Is you identify god a biological “male” or did you assign a pronoun?

 

 

Norse gods, who have also been around a long while, weren't overly bothered and had both gods and goddesses.

 

https://www.centreofexcellence.com/norse-gods-goddesses/

 

Before the beginning of time, there was Ginnungagap – a bottomless abyss, which separated the icy land of Niflheim and the fiery land of Muspelheim. These two realms rose in power and clashed; the burning frost turned into water drops and the water drops turned into life.

The first living being was Ymir, a hermaphroditic giant who was created from those life-giving drops of water and whose death was brought about by Odin and his brothers. Odin, Vili, and Vé, Ymir’s descendants, fashioned the Nordic mythological universe from his blood, bones, flesh, teeth, hair, eyelashes, brains and skull.

The Norse gods belong to two major clans: Æsir and Vanir. Odin, Frigg, Thor, Loki, Balder, Hod, Heimdall and Tyr are the most elevated representatives of Æsir and are known as the main gods. The second clan, Vanir, contains the fertility gods and count Njord, Freyr, and Freyja as their most notable members. Despite the antagonism between them, it was necessary for the two families to combine their powers and ideals for all to prosper.

 

There is more in the link and these are only the Norse Gods.

[Berkshire]

If Americans are serious about reducing gun violence in the USA, there's only one way to go about it.  Republicans must be voted out of office.  If not, no meaningful legislation can pass and the killing will continue.  But I fear most Americans who identify as Republicans simply don't care.  So yes, many more Americans will die from gun violence....guaranteed.   

[xylophone]

23 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

If Americans are serious about reducing gun violence in the USA, there's only one way to go about it.  Republicans must be voted out of office.  If not, no meaningful legislation can pass and the killing will continue.  But I fear most Americans who identify as Republicans simply don't care.  So yes, many more Americans will die from gun violence....guaranteed.   

Agree with your post, and maybe I'm being a little naïve or simplistic when I believe that the banning of automatic/semiautomatic rifles which were designed for warfare, would have an effect??

 

Raising the age by which gun ownership is allowed would be another step, and these two steps mentioned would in no way impinge upon the "right to bear arms" which the Americans hold so dearly.

 

Also, IMO, the call for schoolteachers to be armed, is an absolute nonsense. Why?? Well, when I look back on my school days I cannot think of any teacher in any class, in any school that I attended who would be capable of shooting and killing someone.

 

Imagine the interview process for a new teacher: – "are you prepared to carry a gun and kill if necessary?". What on earth is the world coming to.
 

[rudi49jr]

25 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

If Americans are serious about reducing gun violence in the USA, there's only one way to go about it.  Republicans must be voted out of office.  If not, no meaningful legislation can pass and the killing will continue.  But I fear most Americans who identify as Republicans simply don't care.  So yes, many more Americans will die from gun violence....guaranteed.   

The problem is that, as we speak, the Republicans in many states are rigging the system to stay in power, and they’re playing dirty like you wouldn’t believe. The USA is fast on its way to becoming a country ruled by a minority party that doesn’t give two hoots about what they have to do to stay in power. Trump almost succeeded. Next time they will make sure.

[jvs]

better not post what i wrote.

Edited June 6, 2022 by jvs

[JetsetBkk]

37 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Also, IMO, the call for schoolteachers to be armed, is an absolute nonsense.

The "call" is for one or more trained and armed persons to be on duty at all schools.

[coolcarer]

1 hour ago, JetsetBkk said:

The "call" is for one or more trained and armed persons to be on duty at all schools.

Didn’t work out too well at the Robb Elementary School. 

[rudi49jr]

47 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

Didn’t work out too well at the Robb Elementary School. 

Plus it took the police over an hour to enter the building. What good is a police force when they wait outside for an hour and the bad guy is inside killing people?

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Agree with your post, and maybe I'm being a little naïve or simplistic when I believe that the banning of automatic/semiautomatic rifles which were designed for warfare, would have an effect??

You are being naïve if you think that banning guns that only account for a  small fraction of gun deaths will significantly reduce gun deaths.

 

Incidentally, semiautomatic rifles have been widely owned and used in the US for well over 100 years. 

 

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Raising the age by which gun ownership is allowed would be another step, and these two steps mentioned would in no way impinge upon the "right to bear arms" which the Americans hold so dearly.

So kids that are old enough to vote, and old enough to join or be drafted into the military and compelled to shoot guns, will not longer be able to buy guns.

 

And we will ban the sale of semiautomatic rifles that have been widely owned and used in the US for well over 100 years, 

 

And you think that if we do these two things, it will make a significant difference, yes?

 

It is worth noting that well over 90% of gun deaths in the US are committed using handguns, and one already has to be 21 to buy handguns. So if the age were raised, the sale of semiautomatic rifles were banned, AND if all the millions of semiautomatic rifles we CONFISCATED and destroyed, it could not reduce gun deaths by 10%,

 

When you also consider that anyone that was wanting to kill people using a semiautomatic rife that had been confiscated would still have access to all manner of handguns, I think it safe to say the lives saved would be significantly less than that. 

 

2 hours ago, xylophone said:

Also, IMO, the call for schoolteachers to be armed, is an absolute nonsense. Why?? Well, when I look back on my school days I cannot think of any teacher in any class, in any school that I attended who would be capable of shooting and killing someone.

 

Imagine the interview process for a new teacher: – "are you prepared to carry a gun and kill if necessary?". What on earth is the world coming to.

I do not believe anyone is suggesting the state mandate teachers carry guns. Do you have anything that supports this? 

 

Why is it always the law-abiding citizen that has to be punished? Why not more focus on punishing criminals, particularly those that commit gun crimes? 

   

Incidentally, over half of gun-deaths are suicides, and the teen/young-adult suicide rate is skyrocketing.

[James105]

19 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

You are being naïve if you think that banning guns that only account for a  small fraction of gun deaths will significantly reduce gun deaths.

 

Incidentally, semiautomatic rifles have been widely owned and used in the US for well over 100 years. 

 

So kids that are old enough to vote, and old enough to join or be drafted into the military and compelled to shoot guns, will not longer be able to buy guns.

 

And we will ban the sale of semiautomatic rifles that have been widely owned and used in the US for well over 100 years, 

 

And you think that if we do these two things, it will make a significant difference, yes?

 

It is worth noting that well over 90% of gun deaths in the US are committed using handguns, and one already has to be 21 to buy handguns. So if the age were raised, the sale of semiautomatic rifles were banned, AND if all the millions of semiautomatic rifles we CONFISCATED and destroyed, it could not reduce gun deaths by 10%,

 

When you also consider that anyone that was wanting to kill people using a semiautomatic rife that had been confiscated would still have access to all manner of handguns, I think it safe to say the lives saved would be significantly less than that. 

 

I do not believe anyone is suggesting the state mandate teachers carry guns. Do you have anything that supports this? 

 

Why is it always the law-abiding citizen that has to be punished? Why not more focus on punishing criminals, particularly those that commit gun crimes? 

   

Incidentally, over half of gun-deaths are suicides, and the teen/young-adult suicide rate is skyrocketing.

So ban all guns then if half measures are not good enough.   That has demonstrably solved the problem in every other civilised country on the planet. 

 

Why do you even bother debating this as it's irrelevant anyway.   The gun control debate in the USA was settled after Sandy Hook when Americans demonstrated that their right to own a gun is more important than a little kids right to life and the occasional mass execution of little kids in their classrooms is preferable to having to give up their guns.   So congratulations.   You get to keep your guns and the rest of us will continue to compare the USA to third world uncivilised hell holes on this matter.

Edited June 6, 2022 by James105

[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

28 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

I do not believe anyone is suggesting the state mandate teachers carry guns. Do you have anything that supports this? 

 

Only that it was suggested by an ex US president who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer!

 

President Donald Trump, after listening to a series of emotional stories and pleas to enhance school safety at the White House Wednesday, floated the idea of arming teachers and school staff….

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/trump-listening-sessions-parkland-students/index.html

 

US President Donald Trump has said arming teachers could prevent school shootings like that which left 17 people dead last week in Florida.

Teachers carrying a concealed gun could end attacks "very quickly", he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43149694

[Yellowtail]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Only that it was suggested by an ex US president who was not the sharpest knife in the drawer!

 

President Donald Trump, after listening to a series of emotional stories and pleas to enhance school safety at the White House Wednesday, floated the idea of arming teachers and school staff….

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/21/politics/trump-listening-sessions-parkland-students/index.html

 

US President Donald Trump has said arming teachers could prevent school shootings like that which left 17 people dead last week in Florida.

Teachers carrying a concealed gun could end attacks "very quickly", he said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-43149694

Again, do you have anything that support what you said? Clearly no one in your links has suggested the state mandate teachers carry guns.

 

 

[xylophone]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Why is it always the law-abiding citizen that has to be punished?

Oh, so law abiding citizens don't commit these mass shootings? And it puzzles me why these folk want to own rifles that are designed to kill in battle?

[xylophone]

3 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Again, do you have anything that support what you said? Clearly no one in your links has suggested the state mandate teachers carry guns.

 

 

I never said that it was state-mandated that teachers should carry guns, only that it had been suggested by a former dumb president, and I provided the links to that.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, rudi49jr said:

Plus it took the police over an hour to enter the building. What good is a police force when they wait outside for an hour and the bad guy is inside killing people?

Same happened at the Stoneman Douglas High School shooting with 17 dead with his AR-15 war weapon. The 19 year old murderer Nikolas Cruz had free rein while the armed security waited outside. He only stopped shooting because his rifle jammed.

 

An armed school resource officer of the Broward County Sheriff's Office was on campus when the shooting broke out, and he remained outside 

[Yellowtail]

17 minutes ago, James105 said:

So ban all guns then if half measures are not good enough.   That has demonstrably solved the problem in every other civilised country on the planet. 

 

Why do you even bother debating this as it's irrelevant anyway.   The gun control debate in the USA was settled after Sandy Hook when Americans demonstrated that their right to own a gun is more important than a little kids right to life and the occasional mass execution of little kids in their classrooms is preferable to having to give up their guns.   So congratulations.   You get to keep your guns and the rest of us will continue to compare the USA to third world uncivilised hell holes on this matter.

I think there are any number of things that could be done, but unfortunately it would require a lot of effort and a lot of things that would be politically unpopular. So we'll just beat our chest and say how much we care and pass some ignorant bills that will do next to nothing except gin-up some votes for the next election. That people like you hate the US gives me hope. 

 

 

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Oh, so law abiding citizens don't commit these mass shootings?

No. 

7 minutes ago, xylophone said:

And it puzzles me why these folk want to own rifles that are designed to kill in battle?

Is this a question? If so, could you be a little more specific? I don't know what people you are talking about, nor do I know what rifles you are talking about. 

[rudi49jr]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

That people like you hate the US gives me hope.

Who said anything about hate? It’s much more pity that I feel, that a country can be held hostage by a minority of hard-core gun owners who don’t care how many people, including young children in school shootings, die because of guns, so long as they get to keep their arsenal of assault weapons.
Every other civilized country has sorted this out, it’s not exactly rocket science, but the good old US of A is stumped and keeps doing nothing about it. That’s just totally bizarre to me.

[xylophone]

18 minutes ago, rudi49jr said:

Who said anything about hate? It’s much more pity that I feel, that a country can be held hostage by a minority of hard-core gun owners who don’t care how many people, including young children in school shootings, die because of guns, so long as they get to keep their arsenal of assault weapons.
Every other civilized country has sorted this out, it’s not exactly rocket science, but the good old US of A is stumped and keeps doing nothing about it. That’s just totally bizarre to me.

I think James105 summed it up well........and he mentioned nothing about "hate" (as "Yellowtail posted).