Ukraine moves step closer to joining E.U.

[onthedarkside]

European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen

 

European Commission has recommended it to be granted candidate status to join the bloc, which is expected to be approved next week

 

Ukraine has taken a step closer towards joining the EU after the European Commission recommended it to be granted candidate status to join the bloc on Friday.

 

The boost to Ukraine’s hopes of membership is laden with meaning in a country that turned defiantly westwards during the 2013 Euromaidan protests that toppled its pro-Russian president.

It will be a blow for Vladimir Putin, whose illegal invasion was an attempt to force Ukraine back into Moscow’s sphere of influence.

 

"It's the first step on the EU membership path that'll certainly bring our victory closer. Grateful to @vonderleyen & each (EU) member for a historic decision," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Friday.

 

(more)

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/17/ukraine-recommended-eu-candidate/

 

 

[vandeventer]

As much as I would like to see Putin's war end I truly think this is not the way to go for Ukraine. We all know they are in a world of hurt and that Russia is not giving up no matter how many Russians die. By joining the EU Putin will have the war he always wanted.

[Retiredandhappyhere]

Judging by the difficulty Putin is having in ending his war with Ukraine successfully, 

a potential war with the West would be the final nail in his coffin long before the first volley was fired.

[spidermike007]

One thing many of us assumed about Putin prior to this invasion, was that he was smart. I think that assumption is out the window now. This serves him right. Not only did he not want this to happen, I do not think his small brain was even capable of conceiving the notion that this war would encourage other nations like Finland and Sweden to join in. A real dunce, it would appear. Wonder if he has ever played chess, or is that over his head too?

 

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by Scott

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, vandeventer said:

As much as I would like to see Putin's war end I truly think this is not the way to go for Ukraine. We all know they are in a world of hurt and that Russia is not giving up no matter how many Russians die. By joining the EU Putin will have the war he always wanted.

What advantage would Ukraine joining the EU give to Russia?

Edited June 18, 2022 by placeholder

[James105]

There is not a chance the EU are actually going to let Ukraine join so this is just about as empty an empty gesture as anyone could make.   Turkey is also a candidate country (since about 1987) with an equivalent chance of attaining membership.   

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, James105 said:

There is not a chance the EU are actually going to let Ukraine join so this is just about as empty an empty gesture as anyone could make.   Turkey is also a candidate country (since about 1987) with an equivalent chance of attaining membership.   

It's likely going to take years for Ukraine to bring corruption down to an acceptable level. But comparing its situation to Turkey's is ridiculous. Have there been no countries admitted to the EU that have applied after 1987?

[James105]

13 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It's likely going to take years for Ukraine to bring corruption down to an acceptable level. But comparing its situation to Turkey's is ridiculous. Have there been no countries admitted to the EU that have applied after 1987?

Only Russia is considered more corrupt than Ukraine in Europe.   Even Turkey is less corrupt.   I wasn't making the point that it would take years for Ukraine to be accepted - my point was they will never be accepted, just like Turkey.   It's an empty virtual signalling gesture by the EU to make them look right on and has exactly the same real world effect on the people of Ukraine as someone displaying the Ukrainian flag in their twitter profile.   

[placeholder]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Only Russia is considered more corrupt than Ukraine in Europe.   Even Turkey is less corrupt.   I wasn't making the point that it would take years for Ukraine to be accepted - my point was they will never be accepted, just like Turkey.   It's an empty virtual signalling gesture by the EU to make them look right on and has exactly the same real world effect on the people of Ukraine as someone displaying the Ukrainian flag in their twitter profile.   

Because Ukraine doesn't have a very powerful incentive, namely survival, to clean up its act?  As Dr. Johnson once remarked:

“Depend upon it, sir, when a man knows he is to be hanged in a fortnight, it concentrates his mind wonderfully.”

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, James105 said:

There is not a chance the EU are actually going to let Ukraine join so this is just about as empty an empty gesture as anyone could make.   Turkey is also a candidate country (since about 1987) with an equivalent chance of attaining membership.   

 

46 minutes ago, James105 said:

Only Russia is considered more corrupt than Ukraine in Europe.   Even Turkey is less corrupt.   I wasn't making the point that it would take years for Ukraine to be accepted - my point was they will never be accepted, just like Turkey.   It's an empty virtual signalling gesture by the EU to make them look right on and has exactly the same real world effect on the people of Ukraine as someone displaying the Ukrainian flag in their twitter profile.   

That,s your opinion yet you are factually wrong. Firstly Turkey was not awarded "Candidate Status" until 1999. The next step is "accession negotiations" which started in 2005.

 

Ukraine is to be awarded Candidate Status next week according to the reports.

 

In these very dark times for them this is fantastic news and brings a much needed moral booster that they are proud of. Sure it may take another decade or more but then that is the procedure that cannot be avoided.

 

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/turkey/

[James105]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

 

That,s your opinion yet you are factually wrong. Firstly Turkey was not awarded "Candidate Status" until 1999. The next step is "accession negotiations" which started in 2005.

 

Ukraine is to be awarded Candidate Status next week according to the reports.

 

In these very dark times for them this is fantastic news and brings a much needed moral booster that they are proud of. Sure it may take another decade or more but then that is the procedure that cannot be avoided.

 

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/enlargement/turkey/

The point I was making, and continue to make, is that the EU is just virtue signalling.    They will not accept a country with as poor GDP or as corrupt as Ukraine into the EU.    Feel free to bookmark this and come back in 20/30/40 years when Ukraine has still not been accepted into the EU if you like.   What Ukraine needs is actual help, not flags in bios or empty gestures like this, but something tangible (e.g tanks) that the EU countries do not seem to be willing to offer.   

[Tropposurfer]

I've listened to some academics and sociologists over the last months since this heinous onslaught started (ex the annexing of the eastern regions prior to this phase of Putin hegemony).

Some said that if Putin had not taken power all those years ago the EU (in some newer evolved form) would very likely have included Russia as a full member and that the entire world economic map, and social order would have been very different.

Interesting to ponder given the initial years of glasnost looking so bright with the vast majority of Russians at that time excited and joyful in expectation of participating openly in the European democratic experiment.

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, James105 said:

The point I was making, and continue to make, is that the EU is just virtue signalling.    They will not accept a country with as poor GDP or as corrupt as Ukraine into the EU.    Feel free to bookmark this and come back in 20/30/40 years when Ukraine has still not been accepted into the EU if you like.   What Ukraine needs is actual help, not flags in bios or empty gestures like this, but something tangible (e.g tanks) that the EU countries do not seem to be willing to offer.   

That point you were making was based on your false claim as demonstrated in the link I provided

[ozimoron]

15 minutes ago, James105 said:

The point I was making, and continue to make, is that the EU is just virtue signalling.    They will not accept a country with as poor GDP or as corrupt as Ukraine into the EU.    Feel free to bookmark this and come back in 20/30/40 years when Ukraine has still not been accepted into the EU if you like.   What Ukraine needs is actual help, not flags in bios or empty gestures like this, but something tangible (e.g tanks) that the EU countries do not seem to be willing to offer.   

They will accept Ukraine into the EU for the simple reason that Europe is so dependent on Ukraine's agricultural resources.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

They will accept Ukraine into the EU for the simple reason that Europe is so dependent on Ukraine's agricultural resources.

Securing access to these huge agricultural resources by diplomacy and treaty seems a far smarter, let alone more humane, means of doing so than engaging in an unprovoked war to make a land grab.

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, James105 said:

The point I was making, and continue to make, is that the EU is just virtue signalling.    They will not accept a country with as poor GDP or as corrupt as Ukraine into the EU.    Feel free to bookmark this and come back in 20/30/40 years when Ukraine has still not been accepted into the EU if you like.   What Ukraine needs is actual help, not flags in bios or empty gestures like this, but something tangible (e.g tanks) that the EU countries do not seem to be willing to offer.   

They certainly won't accept a country as poor or as corrupt as Ukraine is now. But unless you've got a crystal ball, how do you what the situation in Ukraine will be 5 to 10 years from now? Remember that Yanukovych got deposed because he reneged on a promise to apply for membership in the EU. 

Edited June 18, 2022 by placeholder

[placeholder]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They will accept Ukraine into the EU for the simple reason that Europe is so dependent on Ukraine's agricultural resources.

Ukraine needs the EU more than the EU need Ukraine. That said, they might allow them into the Free Trade Zone, I'm not sure what the rules are governing EU-Ukraine now.

[arithai12]

I hate to admit it, but for the first time I admire Brexit.

Von der Leyen & co. make even Bojo look a like a genius.

[gearbox]

9 hours ago, ozimoron said:

They will accept Ukraine into the EU for the simple reason that Europe is so dependent on Ukraine's agricultural resources.

Europe is self sufficient in terms of food, it is also a wheat exporter. The only sizable import from Ukraine is sunflower, and sunflower oil can be easily substituted.

[gearbox]

10 hours ago, James105 said:

The point I was making, and continue to make, is that the EU is just virtue signalling.    They will not accept a country with as poor GDP or as corrupt as Ukraine into the EU.    Feel free to bookmark this and come back in 20/30/40 years when Ukraine has still not been accepted into the EU if you like.   What Ukraine needs is actual help, not flags in bios or empty gestures like this, but something tangible (e.g tanks) that the EU countries do not seem to be willing to offer.   

That's if EU lasts that long in its current shape. Take out Eastern Europe and club Med, and there are a few countries left funding the bloc. Last thing they need is another big poor country to fund.

 

EU needs to take a look at its competitiveness,  not concentrating on politicking. East Asia is slowly making them irrelevant.

[ozimoron]

3 hours ago, gearbox said:

Europe is self sufficient in terms of food, it is also a wheat exporter. The only sizable import from Ukraine is sunflower, and sunflower oil can be easily substituted.

where do you get your misinformation from?

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports/ukraine

[gearbox]

5 hours ago, ozimoron said:

where do you get your misinformation from?

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports/ukraine

The EU agricultural imports from Ukraine are 5% of their agricultural imports.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Extra-EU_trade_in_agricultural_goods#Main_trading_partners_for_agricultural_products

 

EU itself has a sizable trade surplus in agricultural products of 43 bn,  no chance of going hungry.

 

And as far as trade is concerned they import 3+ times more from Turkey which is far from becoming a member:

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/european-union/imports-by-country

 

They even import more from Malaysia.

 

Try harder next time.

[Scott]

Troll post and replies removed.