Climate change: As Po River dries up, Italy's food and energy supplies are at risk

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Thats your opinion.

Read my links and you'll discover its not my opinion its the opinion of experts unlike me or you

[Sparktrader]

17 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Read my links and you'll discover its not my opinion its the opinion of experts unlike me or you

Lots of experts say the opposite.

[StayinThailand2much]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:08 AM, onthedarkside said:

Northern Italy hasn’t seen rainfall for more than 110 days and this year’s snowfall is down by 70% (...)

Not sure about the rainfall, but I remember much more snowfall from when I was a kid, so it's not a new phenomenon, but, of course, it's accelerating at an alarming speed.

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Lots of experts say the opposite.

Link? which experts have refuted the claims made in the links I provided? The study on China was carried out by the University of Chicago’s Energy Policy. Institute

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Link? which experts have refuted the claims made in the links I provided? The study on China was carried out by the University of Chicago’s Energy Policy. Institute

What are your claims?

[Sparktrader]

Google "Einstein on experts"

[StayinThailand2much]

59 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Yes, they are cleaning up their local environment for PR, all the while increasing their impact on global warming. 

Spot on. No other country is currently building more coal-fired power stations, while the rest of the world is switching to cleaner energy sources. - How many solar power plants and wind power stations do you have to build in the West to 'make good' for China's massive coal bet, I wonder? (And the irony is, that most solar panels and wind turbines are 'Made in China' these days - achieved with dumping prices a few years ago - but, of course, burning coal is much cheaper... And the CCP gives a rat's a** even about their own citizens' health. Guess, what they care about the 'rest of the world'.)

 

 

Top five coal-fired power generating countries in 2020

1. China – 4,631 TWh. China is the world's largest coal-fired power generating country, having produced 4,631 TWh of the fuel in 2020 – making up 61% of its total electricity output. ...
2. India – 947 TWh. ...
3. US – 774 TWh. ...
4. Japan – 274 TWh. ...
5. South Korea – 192 TWh.

Edited June 19, 2022 by StayinThailand2much

[Bkk Brian]

9 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

What are your claims?

?? Are you being serious, you responded to one of my posts on the work China has done, talk about going round in circles, there are 2 links there for you to read, now please show me the "lots of experts that refute it" as you claim

 

China's Clean Air Campaign Is Bringing Down Global Pollution

China Reduced Air Pollution in 7 Years as Much as US Did in Three Decades

Non paywall source for above link

 

 air pollution not only contributes to climate change but is also exacerbated by it

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

?? Are you being serious, you responded to one of my posts on the work China has done, talk about going round in circles, there are 2 links there for you to read, now please show me the experts that refute it

 

China's Clean Air Campaign Is Bringing Down Global Pollution

China Reduced Air Pollution in 7 Years as Much as US Did in Three Decades

 

 air pollution not only contributes to climate change but is also exacerbated by it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/22/china-coal-climate-change-xi-energy/

 

Year 2022

[Sparktrader]

When coal is burned it releases a number of airborne toxins and pollutants. They include mercury, lead, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, particulates, and various other heavy metals.

 

https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/coal-power-impacts#:~:text=When coal is burned it,and various other heavy metals.

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/22/china-coal-climate-change-xi-energy/

 

Year 2022

Great, seems to be differing articles:

 

China’s clean air campaign is bringing down global pollution

The country has slashed air pollution in recent years.

By Bloomberg News 14 Jun 2022

 

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Great, seems to be differing articles:

 

China’s clean air campaign is bringing down global pollution

The country has slashed air pollution in recent years.

By Bloomberg News 14 Jun 2022

 

Your link talks about 2013 to 2020. Since then coal output up

[nauseus]

6 hours ago, bert bloggs said:

So what caused it 2000 yrs ago ,when it happened then ,chariot racing? Its nature doing what it has done from the begining ,i know its bad and there billons more of us now,the future lools bleak.nothing humans can do to change nature.

That is a good question.  

[Sparktrader]

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2317274-china-is-building-more-than-half-of-the-worlds-new-coal-power-plants/

 

Look at what they do not say

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

There's a few points.

 

1 explain 1909 to 1942 warming

2 explain why chinese co2 is up a lot in 6 years yet temps not up.

I will post the links.

 

Early 20th century warming was in large part due to rising solar activity and relatively quiet volcanic activity. However, both factors have played little to no part in the warming since 1975. Solar activity has been steady since the 50's. Volcanoes have been relatively frequent and if anything, have exerted a cooling effect.

https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-early-20th-century-intermediate.htm

As for correlating Chinese CO2 production to temperature change... Even though China produces a lot of CO2, on a yearly basis it's only a tiny fraction of all the CO2 that has accumulated in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Now if air didn't move, i.e., if there was no such thing as wind, over time CO2 levels would rise disproportionately in the air over China. But obviously that's not the case. Wind doesn't respect borders. And weather is all about moving masses of air. So that CO2 gets dispersed worldwide.

I'm guessing you're claim that temperatures in China are not up over the last 6 years is based on the same kind of methodology (if such a high-falutin' word can be used for your simplistic criterion) you used for Africa. Once again, a baseline can't be derived from a single arbitrarily chosen datum. Here's a graph with a trendline also included. It shows a rising trend in Chinese temperatures:

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/china/climate-data-historical

[Bkk Brian]

12 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Your link talks about 2013 to 2020. Since then coal output up

True, and China still has a lot to do with its man made pollution that is affecting the world climate but as demonstrated it can do it if the will is there. It takes a concerted effort from all countries that produce pollution

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bkk Brian

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Early 20th century warming was in large part due to rising solar activity and relatively quiet volcanic activity. However, both factors have played little to no part in the warming since 1975. Solar activity has been steady since the 50's. Volcanoes have been relatively frequent and if anything, have exerted a cooling effect.

https://skepticalscience.com/global-warming-early-20th-century-intermediate.htm

As for correlating Chinese CO2 production to temperature change... Even though China produces a lot of CO2, on a yearly basis it's only a tiny fraction of all the CO2 that has accumulated in the atmosphere since the start of the Industrial Revolution. Now if air didn't move, i.e., if there was no such thing as wind, over time CO2 levels would rise disproportionately in the air over China. But obviously that's not the case. Wind doesn't respect borders. And weather is all about moving masses of air. So that CO2 gets dispersed worldwide.

I'm guessing you're claim that temperatures in China are not up over the last 6 years is based on the same kind of methodology (if such a high-falutin' word can be used for your simplistic criterion) you used for Africa. Once again, a baseline can't be derived from a single arbitrarily chosen datum. Here's a graph with a trendline also included. It shows a rising trend in Chinese temperatures:

https://climateknowledgeportal.worldbank.org/country/china/climate-data-historical

The guy who runs ss website is John Cook.

 

Whats his job?

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Skeptical Science (occasionally abbreviated SkS) is a climate science blog and information resource created in 2007 by Australian former cartoonist and web developer, John Cook,^[1][2][3] who received a PhD degree in cognitive science in 2016.^[4] 

 

Former cartoonist

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeptical_Science

[Sparktrader]

6 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

True, and China still has a lot to do with its man made pollution that is affecting the world climate but as demonstrated it can do it if the will is there. It takes a concerted effort from all countries that produce pollution

Stop driving cars and flying then.

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Stop driving cars and flying then.

Please feel free to lead the way, I have a hybrid car, if I could get a full electric powered and the facilities were here I would.

[KhunLA]

48 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

?? Are you being serious, you responded to one of my posts on the work China has done, talk about going round in circles, there are 2 links there for you to read, now please show me the "lots of experts that refute it" as you claim

 

China's Clean Air Campaign Is Bringing Down Global Pollution

China Reduced Air Pollution in 7 Years as Much as US Did in Three Decades

Non paywall source for above link

 

 air pollution not only contributes to climate change but is also exacerbated by it

Extreme Apples & Oranges comparison, and how if any, does that correspond to MMCG/GW, which wasn't mentioned at all.  For sake of agreement, we'll just say any air pollution contributes to it, like cow farts.

 

Simply states their air is healthier, doesn't state how bad it was when change started.  That the USA didn't need to bring it down as much to be at the same 'healthy/unhealthy' doesn't say much for China's results.  Kudos, IF, it's maintained, as lots of IFs in there also.

 

Is 'better' really actually 'good', along with being compared to 20+ yr old USA data ... ????

40% drop, but still 3X worse ... ????  states nothing about 2000 to present, except it's still some of the worse.

 

"The amount of harmful particulates in the air in China fell 40% from 2013 to 2020, according to the University of Chicago’s Energy Policy Institute, which would add about two years to average life expectancy if sustained. While smog in large swathes of the country still significantly exceeds safe levels,"

 

"strong indication of the opportunities that could lie ahead for other nations if they were to impose strong pollution policies"

 

"40% decline in seven years nearly equaling a 44% drop in US pollution over 30 years from 1970"

 

"Beijing remains three times more polluted than Los Angeles" .... & ....

"six times higher than the WHO recommends."

 

... well done ????????

????

 

 

 

Edited June 19, 2022 by KhunLA

[Sparktrader]

7 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Please feel free to lead the way, I have a hybrid car, if I could get a full electric powered and the facilities were here I would.

https://www.techzim.co.zw/2022/03/hybrid-cars-are-a-scam/

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Extreme Apples & Oranges comparison, and how if any, does that correspond to MMCG/GW, which wasn't mentioned at all.  For sake of agreement, we'll just say any air pollution contributes to it, like cow farts.

 

Simply states their air is healthier, doesn't state how bad it was when change started.  That the USA didn't need to bring it down as much to be at the same 'healthy/unhealthy' doesn't say much for China's results.  Kudos, IF, it's maintained, as lots of IFs in there also.

 

Is 'better' really actually 'good', along with being compared to 20+ yr old USA data ... ????

40% drop, but still 3X worse ... ????  states nothing about 2000 to present, except it's still some of the worse.

 

"The amount of harmful particulates in the air in China fell 40% from 2013 to 2020, according to the University of Chicago’s Energy Policy Institute, which would add about two years to average life expectancy if sustained. While smog in large swathes of the country still significantly exceeds safe levels,"

 

"strong indication of the opportunities that could lie ahead for other nations if they were to impose strong pollution policies"

 

"40% decline in seven years nearly equaling a 44% drop in US pollution over 30 years from 1970"

 

"Beijing remains three times more polluted than Los Angeles" .... & ....

"six times higher than the WHO recommends."

 

 

 

Extreme Apples & Oranges comparison? I was not making any comparisons to any other post or statistics, it was a stand alone post with the article. I'm not related to it in any way....lol

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

https://www.techzim.co.zw/2022/03/hybrid-cars-are-a-scam/

Won't go there, that will lead us just slightly off topic as I can supply plenty of links that refute that opinion

[Sparktrader]

In 2030 same thing be happening

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

Won't go there, that will lead us just slightly off topic as I can supply plenty of links that refute that opinion

So how much will it change global temps?

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

The temperature average changes every decade. Has so for 4.5bn years.

Not enough absolute data for that but, yes, mother earth's climate has been changing since she was a baby.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

Too late for what?

 

Is your life worse now than 10 years due to co2?

For all the flora and fauna inhabiting the planet.

[Bluespunk]

2 hours ago, Sparktrader said:

China is increasing co2. 

It's a planetary issue, not a national one.

[Sparktrader]

9 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Won't go there, that will lead us just slightly off topic as I can supply plenty of links that refute that opinion

So when will the 2016 temp record be broken? What year? By how much?