Climate change: As Po River dries up, Italy's food and energy supplies are at risk

[ozimoron]

46 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

So global warming makes it colder as well?

 

What science is this?

climate change makes it colder as well.

 

 I know you understand the arguments better than this.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Because what is happening now is a result of humanities actions and the damage they have caused to the planet.

So these smaller droughts are manmade and the bigger droughts are natural?

 

https://www.history.com/news/7-withering-droughts

 

 

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Bkk Brian said:

What if it is?

I dont know. 0.1 degrees is not a bad thing.

[Bkk Brian]

Just now, Sparktrader said:

I dont know. 0.1 degrees is not a bad thing.

You don't know, correct, that's why I listen tend to rely and get my information from people who study this and have some knowledge that exceeds those posting on a forum

[Sparktrader]

35 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

climate change makes it colder as well. Stop being deliberately obtuse. I know you understand the arguments better than this.

How does co2 cool the planet?

 

The co2 theory is warming not cooling

 

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

So these smaller droughts are manmade and the bigger droughts are natural?

 

https://www.history.com/news/7-withering-droughts

 

 

The problems we are experiencing now are a result of humanities actions. Actions that can be modified and changed.

[Sparktrader]

41 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The problems we are experiencing now are a result of humanities actions. Actions that can be modified and changed.

That doesnt make sense. Droughts have always happened - fact.

 

[Bkk Brian]

43 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

 

Feel free to argue with these

 

https://theconversation.com/40-years-ago-scientists-predicted-climate-change-and-hey-they-were-right-120502

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/climate-predictions-have-mostly-come-true-jz7x8g2pc

 

https://iowaenvironmentalfocus.org/2021/05/17/climate-change-predictions-from-the-past-are-coming-true/

 

[nauseus]

44 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

How does co2 cool the planet?

 

The co2 theory is warming not cooling

 

Climate change is not all about CO₂.

[Bluespunk]

40 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

That doesnt make sense. Droughts have always happened - fact.

 

 

The science being used to form governmental and global thinking fully supports the facts that mankind's behaviour and actions are going to lead to catastrophic climate change if we do not act and act quickly.

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

I know. Its mostly about wind and oceans. El Nino and La Nina.

50% of climate change is caused by gases and pollutants other than CO2

[James105]

18 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

We all need to make changes.

I agree.   For my part I am going to follow the example set by high profile climate activists such as ex-royalty Harry and Meghan who regularly preach to us all about this.

 

It's not going to be easy making those 20 extra unnecessary flights per year but I will do my best.    

[Bluespunk]

39 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

 

Yep, and the changes needed were not made, which is why it is all the more urgent to make sure they are now.

 

We are approaching a tipping point.

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

I agree.   For my part I am going to follow the example set by high profile climate activists such as ex-royalty Harry and Meghan who regularly preach to us all about this.

 

It's not going to be easy making those 20 extra unnecessary flights per year but I will do my best.    

Do as you will but it doesn't change the science or the facts.

[Sparktrader]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jan/18/jim-hansen-obama

 

We heard this 13 years ago

[KhunLA]

I also, and continue to predict it WILL get warmer, until, it starts cooling off, toward the next ice age.

 

Why, how hot, and how long to peak, like everyone else, haven't a clue, as it's only a guess, as the particulars, are ever changing.

 

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/jan/18/jim-hansen-obama

 

We heard this 13 years ago

I read this today...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/18/burning-planet-why-are-the-worlds-heatwaves-getting-more-intense

[Sparktrader]

4 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I read this today...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/18/burning-planet-why-are-the-worlds-heatwaves-getting-more-intense

https://www.alltopeverything.com/deadliest-wildfires/

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

https://www.alltopeverything.com/deadliest-wildfires/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/16/greenhouse-gases-must-be-legally-phased-out-us-scientists-argue

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/15/new-data-reveals-extraordinary-global-heating-in-the-arctic

Edited June 19, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

I also, and continue to predict it WILL get warmer, until, it starts cooling off, toward the next ice age.

 

Why, how hot, and how long to peak, like everyone else, haven't a clue, as it's only a guess, as the particulars, are ever changing.

 

 

Like economists. They do models.

 

 

[Sparktrader]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/16/greenhouse-gases-must-be-legally-phased-out-us-scientists-argue

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/15/new-data-reveals-extraordinary-global-heating-in-the-arctic

Satellite Antarctic temperature records show 0.02°C/decade cooling since 1979. The Southern Ocean around Antarctica has been getting sharply colder since 2006. Antarctic sea ice is increasing, reaching all-time highs. Surface temperatures at 13 stations show the Antarctic Peninsula has been sharply cooling since 2000.

 

 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128045886000070

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Sparktrader said:

Satellite Antarctic temperature records show 0.02°C/decade cooling since 1979. The Southern Ocean around Antarctica has been getting sharply colder since 2006. Antarctic sea ice is increasing, reaching all-time highs. Surface temperatures at 13 stations show the Antarctic Peninsula has been sharply cooling since 2000.

 

 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128045886000070

Hence the concern about this

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/15/new-data-reveals-extraordinary-global-heating-in-the-arctic

[Bluespunk]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/17/rare-birds-arrival-an-unmissable-sign-climate-emergency-has-reached-britain

[Sparktrader]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Hence the concern about this

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jun/15/new-data-reveals-extraordinary-global-heating-in-the-arctic

1 place warms

1 place cools

 

 

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

1 place warms

1 place cools

 

 

Read the links I posted earlier...the climate emergency is real.

[Sparktrader]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Read the links I posted earlier...the climate emergency is real.

Jim Hansen said that 13 years ago. 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

At what rate ion the past compared to now? That's the real issue here. Additionally, the Earth is in a natural cooling cycle and yet anthropomorphic climate change is warming the planet at the fast rate for a very long time. Atmospheric CO2 levels far above anything experienced since humans have been around and ocean acidity the same.

 

This talking point that climate has always been changing so noth9ing to see here is totally misleading.

The issue that I was referring to is that the earth's climate has been changing throughout its 4.5Ga history, sometimes with far higher maxima and minima than seen recently. To put things into perspective, bear in mind that the last ice age only ended only about 12,000 years ago - an almost invisible division of the geological clock. 

 

From reading all these posts it seems that there is regular confusion made between the phenomena of climate change and temperature variation. Temperature is just one aspect of climate, with large variations evident throughout earth history. 

 

But these questions should be asked:

 

Can climate and climate change be affected by temperature variation? Yes. 

Can climate change and temperature variation be affected by CO₂? Yes. 

Do greenhouse gases affect global temperatures? Yes.

Is CO₂ the most populous greenhouse gas in the atmosphere? No. That's water vapour.

Are CO₂ levels the highest ever? No.

Would reforestation lower CO₂ levels? Yes, a lot. 

Is carbon recycled naturally? Yes but very slowly - millions of years.

 

Are there any other factors that cause both climate change and temperature variation? Yes, such as as but not limited to changes in: solar absorption, reflectivity, earth orbit and rotation, solar activity, volcanic processes and over a very long timescale, even tectonic effects on the carbon cycle.

 

Back to topic: Have CO₂ levels risen at the fastest rate in recent earth history (late Holocence)? Yes and the rapid rise in the last 200 years is indeed coincident with not only the Industrial Revolution and its resultant emissions but also large rises in the human (and other animal) populations, deforestation and construction.

 

The last question is critical to this topic and as it is evident that anthropogenic CO₂ emissions are responsible for at least part of today's climatic extremes (although I think the Carbon the sink factor is just as important), then they need to be reduced. That said, this world has never had to deal with so many of us making a mess of it. Mother earth will be OK but I'm not sure about us.  

Edited June 19, 2022 by nauseus

[onthedarkside]

A number of trolling and off-topic posts and replies have been removed, as well as posts with unsourced and unsubstantiated claims.

 

[Sparktrader]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The issue that I was referring to is that the earth's climate has been changing throughout its 4.5Ga history, sometimes with far higher maxima and minima than seen recently. To put things into perspective, bear in mind that the last ice age only ended only about 12,000 years ago - an almost invisible division of the geological clock. 

 

From reading all these posts it seems that there is regular confusion made between the phenomena of climate change and temperature variation. Temperature is just one aspect of climate, with large variations evident throughout earth history. 

 

But these questions should be asked:

 

Can climate and climate change be affected by temperature variation? Yes. 

Can climate change and temperature variation be affected by CO₂? Yes. 

o greenhouse gases affect global temperatures? Yes.

Is CO₂ the most populous greenhouse gas in the atmosphere? No. That's water vapour.

Are CO₂ levels the highest ever? No.

Would reforestation lower CO₂ levels? Yes, a lot. 

Is carbon recycled naturally? Yes but very slowly - millions of years.

 

Are there any other factors that cause both climate change and temperature variation? Yes, such as as but not limited to changes in: solar absorption, reflectivity, earth orbit and rotation, solar activity, volcanic processes and over a very long timescale, even tectonic effects on the carbon cycle.

 

Back to topic: Have CO₂ levels risen at the fastest rate in recent earth history (late Holocence)? Yes and the rapid rise in the last 200 years is indeed coincident with not only the Industrial Revolution and its resultant emissions but also large rises in the human (and other animal) populations, deforestation and construction.

 

The last question is critical to this topic and it as is evident that anthropogenic CO₂ emissions are responsible for at least part of today's climatic extremes (although I think the Carbon the sink factor is just as important), then they need to be reduced. That said, this world has never had to deal with so many of us making a mess of it. Mother earth will be OK but I'm not sure about us.  

Technology solves most problems

 I agree with much of what you say.

 

In 2030 or 2030 science is better.

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

Jim Hansen said that 13 years ago. 

Deny all you want, but the science speaks for itself...