LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[stat]

23 minutes ago, K2938 said:

And they also do not like gains very much if they are significant.  They will then ask to see the gains for many years and given market volatility the gains were probably not constant or at some point of time were even losses and then they will hold this against you.

Thanks for your post! Your post saved me a lot of times! Not in my wildest dreams would I have considered what you described. My idea was to come up with a bank statement where I show 1 or 2 trades with 80K gain. A german tax declaration is not understandable even to a German and does not show any cap gains as they are handled at bank level.

 

Another gentlemen in the tax thread described that they asked him for every! account statement since account opening which was in his case 30+ years old but then they relented. I think my way forward is either with the defacto 2 year OA Visas and then LTR or go for the Philippines. Thanks again!

[stat]

25 minutes ago, K2938 said:

What you can do is use some of your funds to buy annuities of the appropriate amount.  This would then meet their criteria.  But as this is probably a really poor investment, you are likely to save money by just forgetting about the LTR visa and buy an Elite visa instead.

Only reason left for me for an LTR is the tax savings if these savings really come to pass. I concur that an investment in bonds is not a really great idea. Maybe I go with OA and realise some gains in the 2 years but then again as they are not transmitted for obvious reasons I do not have a tax declaration from TH to qualify for the LTR

Edited November 15, 2023 by stat

[oldcpu]

On 11/15/2023 at 11:37 PM, stat said:

 I am very interessed to hear how you invested in TH bonds (bank, broker in TH etc) and what the costs and interests is. Thanks!

Investing in the Thai government bonds was one of the more difficult aspects for me to obtain the LTR-WP visa.

 

I went (with my Thai wife) to a number of different banks to see if I could purchase bonds through them, and in the end, Bangkok Bank was the only one that would facilitate the selling of Thai government bonds to me, if I had the appropriate bank account with the necessary funds (for the bond purchase) in the account.  We had to talk to the head manager of this specific branch of Bangkok Bank, who stated I could buy such a bond ONLY if I had a foreign "pink-ID" card and "yellow book", which I had.  I do not know if such is nominally required but he insisted on it. So please do not shoot the messenger.

 

So I transferred a couple of million THB into Bankgok Bank account (as the amount I transferred was all the additional amount (above the nominal amount I had in the bank) that I needed for the bonds to achieve the $250K US$ equiv investment in Thailand) ... and I waited for the next announcement of a sale of Thai government bonds, which came up in December of last year.  Through Bangkok Bank I placed an order for the bonds, which took a lot of time at the counter to place said order.

 

Possibly what took the most time at the counter was they wanted a Thai tax-ID to enter into the online bond purchase entry form.  To the best of my knowledge I have no such number. The person at the counter started making noises that i could not likely then buy such a bond when I pointed out the bank regularly deducted tax money from interest in my account - so what do they do with that tax money they deduct?  ... What number do they apply for that?  The then went into a 'pow-wow' (a few employees puzzling over this question), when my wife broke the impasse by suggesting they enter the ID # from my pink ID into their system, and see if it is accepted as a tax #.  IMHO it is likely it is NOT a tax # on the pink ID (although it IS the tax number on nominal Thai IDs), but the bank entered the number and the Bangkok Bank system accepted it.  Go figure.

 

A few weeks later, I received a phone call that my bond had been purchased and I was to come to the bank.  I showed up, and they gave me a Thai bond bank book, but no bond certificate. According to the bank, only bonds with no certificate were issued now adays.  Fine.

 

So I submitted photo-copies of my bond book to BoI for my LTR-Visa application and they rejected it !!  They insisted on getting a bond certificate (where a certificate typically provides more information on the specific bond,  than information a bond bank book provides - such as the bond maturity date, the bond interest ...  None of which is nominally in the bond book  ).

 

I went back to Bangkok bank, asked for a certificate, and after a long time (where the person at the counter made many phone calls asking how to do it), they had me fill in/sign a form, pay them a nominal (trivial) amount of money for a certificate, and stated they would call me when the certificate arrived.  A week later no certificate. We phoned. No certificate. Two weeks later the same. Eventually after what seemed the longest time, I was asked to come in to the bank.  They advised they would not issue a certificate, but instead gave me a letter simply stating I owned the bond.  I almost went ballistic but my wife calmed me down, and I explained to them that would not likely be accepted by BoI as BoI had explained to us on the phone, they needed formal indication of bond maturity date and bond interest.

 

So after a short pow-wow the Bank staff had an entry printed formally into the last page of my bond book, stating bond maturity and bond interest.  

 

I then scanned that, sent it to BoI and it was accepted.  That was an adventure, and it was part of the delay in my LTR_WP visa application being accepted.

Edited November 23, 2023 by oldcpu

[Pib]

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Oct 2023 and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of activity over the last two months....from the BoI LTR website.   Seems to be around 300 applications per month.  Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....Dependents category in third place.

 

 

Through 31 Oct 2023

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Through 31 Aug 2023

[Thailand J]

On 11/16/2023 at 12:21 AM, K2938 said:

Indeed.  But it is a shame that you had to do this.  And the more unnecessary hurdles they erect thereby, the less people will apply for an LTR visa.

The insurance requirement is not as bad as it may look.

The insurance premium I found ( 17,350B to 25,000B/yr in the 61-75 age range ) is about 3% of 800,000B tied up for non-O. If the stock market investment return next 10 years is less then 3% yearly than I have bigger things to worry about.

 

Edited November 24, 2023 by Thailand J

[Rdrokit]

Sorry I have not read the previous 85 pages. I plan on filing for the Wealthy Pensioners Visa after the first of the year. I have 3 pensions which puts me over the 80,000 limit and a 5 million health insurance policy with Pacific Cross. I was wondering if anyone has filed with similar qualifications and what if any problems you ran into. 

Thanks,

rokit

[Northwest87]

9 minutes ago, Rdrokit said:

Sorry I have not read the previous 85 pages. I plan on filing for the Wealthy Pensioners Visa after the first of the year. I have 3 pensions which puts me over the 80,000 limit and a 5 million health insurance policy with Pacific Cross. I was wondering if anyone has filed with similar qualifications and what if any problems you ran into. 

Thanks,

rokit

Pension aside (you look OK), make sure that you get a letter from your insurance, and that it shows a date of expiration minimum 10 month from your application date. You'll have to enter both start and end dates on your application.

[Northwest87]

Just now, Northwest87 said:

Pension aside (you look OK), make sure that you get a letter from your insurance, and that it shows a date of expiration minimum 10 month from your application date. You'll have to enter both start and end dates on your application.

 

It wouldn't harm you to actually go through the previous 85 pages, and see the pitfalls, what additional docs you might be asked etc.

[MPoll]

18 hours ago, Rdrokit said:

Sorry I have not read the previous 85 pages. I plan on filing for the Wealthy Pensioners Visa after the first of the year. I have 3 pensions which puts me over the 80,000 limit and a 5 million health insurance policy with Pacific Cross. I was wondering if anyone has filed with similar qualifications and what if any problems you ran into. 

Thanks,

rokit

I have a pension that is more than $80,000 and Pacifist Cross insurance. I applied for the pensioner LTR in Oct 2022 and got it with no problems at all. I submitted my US tax return to verify my income and never got additional questions about it. I submitted my Pacific Cross insurance certificate and they accepted that as well. You should have no problems. If they ask for more information just give them what they ask. Your situation, and mine, are as simple as it can get and exactly what they ask for on the BOI website.

[JoeP2]

Can anyone who has collected their Wealthy Retirement Visa from One Stop BOI in Bangkok kindly explain what happens at the appointment and how long it takes on the day - is it like an hour or several? And do you really need a proper shirt and trousers!

 

Secondly, did anyone NOT collect it within the 60 days ? -  does the whole process start all over again?

 

Must say, for a visa system everything worked incredibly smoothly - if you qualify for it, I think its by far the best option!

 

 

[Ben Zioner]

56 minutes ago, JoeP2 said:

Can anyone who has collected their Wealthy Retirement Visa from One Stop BOI in Bangkok kindly explain what happens at the appointment and how long it takes on the day - is it like an hour or several? And do you really need a proper shirt and trousers!

 

Secondly, did anyone NOT collect it within the 60 days ? -  does the whole process start all over again?

 

Must say, for a visa system everything worked incredibly smoothly - if you qualify for it, I think its by far the best option!

 

 

Took about 90 minutes, under permanent supervision of a young, diligent, BOI staff. Nothing to worry about.

[Pib]

2 hours ago, JoeP2 said:

Can anyone who has collected their Wealthy Retirement Visa from One Stop BOI in Bangkok kindly explain what happens at the appointment and how long it takes on the day - is it like an hour or several? And do you really need a proper shirt and trousers!

 

Secondly, did anyone NOT collect it within the 60 days ? -  does the whole process start all over again?

 

Must say, for a visa system everything worked incredibly smoothly - if you qualify for it, I think its by far the best option!

 

 

It will only take an hour or two....probably closer to an hour.  Yes, you need trousers and a shirt with collar....like a polo shirt.  Suit and tie "not" required.  If you don't collect the visa within 60 days you get to start all over.

[MPoll]

21 hours ago, JoeP2 said:

Can anyone who has collected their Wealthy Retirement Visa from One Stop BOI in Bangkok kindly explain what happens at the appointment and how long it takes on the day - is it like an hour or several? And do you really need a proper shirt and trousers!

 

Secondly, did anyone NOT collect it within the 60 days ? -  does the whole process start all over again?

 

Must say, for a visa system everything worked incredibly smoothly - if you qualify for it, I think its by far the best option!

 

 

Yes, dress decently like you supposedly do at any immigration office. You will be incredibly pleased at how well the BOI staff will help you. You will eventually be escorted across the hall to the Immigration office which is typically pretty crowded so how long you wait will vary. 

[Pib]

54 minutes ago, MPoll said:

Yes, dress decently like you supposedly do at any immigration office. You will be incredibly pleased at how well the BOI staff will help you. You will eventually be escorted across the hall to the Immigration office which is typically pretty crowded so how long you wait will vary. 

Yes...the Chamchuri Sq Immigration Office stays pretty busy but based on my experience in Dec 2022 when initially getting my LTR visa and last month when getting a certificate of residence to buy a car when they know you have an LTR visa you get priority service....front of the queue type service.

[JimGant]

21 hours ago, Pib said:

and a shirt with collar....like a polo shirt.

 

Use a collared shirt for your photo too. As I recall, someone was denied his photo submission because he was wearing a tee shirt. Handy with Photoshop -- dress yourself up in a coat and tie.

[gt162]

On 11/24/2023 at 3:07 PM, MPoll said:

I have a pension that is more than $80,000 and Pacifist Cross insurance. I applied for the pensioner LTR in Oct 2022 and got it with no problems at all. I submitted my US tax return to verify my income and never got additional questions about it. I submitted my Pacific Cross insurance certificate and they accepted that as well. You should have no problems. If they ask for more information just give them what they ask. Your situation, and mine, are as simple as it can get and exactly what they ask for on the BOI website.

 

Were you able to cross out your SS number? for risk of identity theft and security?

[gt162]

On 11/23/2023 at 5:12 AM, Pib said:

Below are LTR Visa applications snapshots as of end of 31 Oct 2023 and 31 Aug 2023 to give an idea of activity over the last two months....from the BoI LTR website.   Seems to be around 300 applications per month.  Please note this is applications (applies); it does not say how many of the applications were endorsed (i.e., approved).   The Pensioner category is still the most popular closely followed by Work From Thailand Professional category.....Dependents category in third place.

 

 

Through 31 Oct 2023

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Through 31 Aug 2023

 

Not even close to their goal. They were trying for 200,000 applicants per year?

 

 

[Pib]

33 minutes ago, gt162 said:

 

Not even close to their goal. They were trying for 200,000 applicants per year?

 

 

Yes...their aspirational goal of 200K/year over the first 5 years of the program was never realistic like many projections given by the government.  But it's a very good visa program for those who meet the qualification requirements.

[mudcat]

3 hours ago, gt162 said:

 

Were you able to cross out your SS number? for risk of identity theft and security?

Simply submit your tax return transcript which truncates your name(s) and address and only includes the last four-digits of your SS#(s) making it ideal for submitting to agencies but making it useless for anyone else.  A point to note is this document is not editable, so the original is true but a printed copy that you modify by crossing or blanking out is not.

You will need to point the BOI lines giving your pension income.  Taxable IRA Distributions and conversions, pensions, and Social Security all have their own lines which you should call out by page and line number on the transcript. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by mudcat
formatting

[Northwest87]

I understand that a work permit can be had with a WP visa, but if this option is waived upon initial visa delivery, can the visa holder avail himself/herself of the option later, under the same conditions?

[JimGant]

I submitted three 1099's -- Air Force, Social Security, and RMD from my Schwab IRA. Submitted a summary page explaining and totalizing. Also submitted the related Form 1040, but as this was a joint return, the consolidated numbers are worthless without the 1099 breakouts. Also submitted current year's projected pay, based on pay stubs, plus proof of already taken RMD. Guess this satisfied BOI, as I didn't receive any requests for further information.

[Pib]

47 minutes ago, Northwest87 said:

I understand that a work permit can be had with a WP visa, but if this option is waived upon initial visa delivery, can the visa holder avail himself/herself of the option later, under the same conditions?

I'm fully expect you can.  Send an inquiry to BoI LTR to be 100% sure.  They have been answering with hours over the last few months.

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, gt162 said:

 

Were you able to cross out your SS number? for risk of identity theft and security?

I submitted a PDF copy of my U.S. federal return that tax software such as HR Block, TurboTax, etc., generates for mailing/a person's file copy.  I did redact (white out) the first 5 digits of my SSN, IP PIN, etc.  BoI accepted it. 

[Huckenfell]

On 9/26/2023 at 9:58 PM, Pib said:

Today I visited the BoI LTR section and also the BoI immigration who are across from each other on the 18th floor at Chamchuri Square.   I first went into the BoI LTR section to ask if the 1 year address report can be done online or via mail.  At this point I'm dealing with young reps who basically initially meet people visiting the BoI LTR section and do their best to provide answers.   After about a 10 minute discussion the result boiled down that the report must be done in person or by some one you designate (regardless of where you live in Thailand).  No online or mail.  OK this is inline with what BoI told me several months in some back and forth emails which I posted earlier in this thread.   Note: later in my story as I ask the question again to some different folks I get a different answer much more to my liking.  Read on.

 

So now I go across the hall to Immigration to get a Certificate of Residence (CR) since I buying a new car....this was my primary reason in going to BoI Immigration today.  Here's how it went: when I first walked into Immigration's doors I saw the place was packed....95% of the waiting/queue area filled with bodies, but at that same instant I noticed all the immigration officers counters were manned but no customers standing in front of any of the counters....I wondered if something was going on.  Anyway, the immigration rep that meets you at the entrance asked what I needed....I said I'm here for a CR and I have a LTR visa.  When the immigration rep heard me say I have an LTR visa, he said Oh (like it had a special meaning...or maybe I reading too much into it) and then he immediately lead me over to the immigration information counter where I told the officer at that counter what I needed and I asked how long to get one...the officer said one hour with a Bt500 fee.  The officer looked at the form I had completed (a form that Cheang Wattana supposedly uses) and said at BoI immigration they use a slightly different form....I filled out their form which is 95% identical to the CW form.  The officer then directs me over to counter 8 I think it was.   I walk directly to counter #8 and the officer checks my forms...the officer wants the form I had just competed, copies of key passport pages like the first page and page showing my visa, and my latest 1 year address report.  The officer then asked for Bt500 which I paid and then directed me over to counter #10 that is the counter that actually issues the CR.  Now this # 10 counter officer also wanted a copy of my latest TM30 which I had a copy of.   The officer then said the CR would be ready in 1 hour.  I come back in 50 minutes and it's indeed ready....CR in hand. During this whole process I was never issued a queue ticket....it was like I was being Fast Tracked or maybe I just got lucky.

 

I then asked the counter #10 rep the 1 year address reporting question to see what answer I might get...she just directed me back to the main information desk (but she went also) where I talked to an immigration officer who confirmed with another officer that "Yes, you can do the 1 year report by mail to them....use the address on the SMART visa website."  But no online capability at this time to do a 1 year address report.  That was good to hear.

 

OK, with the conflicting answers regarding the 1 year address from the BoI LTR side and the Immigration side I go back to BoI to ask the 1 year report again.  Initially talked to the young rep again and explained the conflicting answers.  He asked me to set down and he get a senior BoI LTR rep to come talk to me about it.  That rep arrived in a few minutes and said a person can do the 1 year report at their "local/nearby" immigration using the TM95 form (not the TM47) and immigration offices had been notified/asked to support...but he also kinda implied some immigration offices may not be up-to-speed on the issue and direct a LTR visa person back to BoI LTR immigration.  And as mentioned above BoI immigration also said the report can be done my "mail" like described on the SMART visa website.

 

And then I asked the rep about the recent tax news regarding Thailand now possibly taxing a person's home country income.  He said the BoI has talked to the Revenue Dept about this and basically those with LTR visa are exempt....probably best said just reposting below snapshot from K2938's post from a few days ago.

 

 

I'm now done...out of the building I go....got my CR and got some courtesy questions answered regarding the 1 year report and tax issues---of course subject to change.   I got good support today at the BoI LTR Section and across the hall at Immigration.  Cheers.

 

 

 

Can someone please explain the LTR visa.  Thank you.

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, Huckenfell said:

Can someone please explain the LTR visa.  Thank you.

 

https://ltr.boi.go.th/

[oldcpu]

On 11/24/2023 at 6:49 AM, Thailand J said:

The insurance requirement is not as bad as it may look.

The insurance premium I found ( 17,350B to 25,000B/yr in the 61-75 age range ) is about 3% of 800,000B tied up for non-O. If the stock market investment return next 10 years is less then 3% yearly than I have bigger things to worry about.

 

 

Further, I like the fact that the LTR visa specifically allows self health insurance. I concede that self health insurance is not for everyone (in fact likely not suitable for the vast majority), but for some of us, self health insurance fits well with our portfolio (and our existing insurance). 

 

I wish that the Type-OA visa would adopt the LTR visa approach, and allow self health insurance. 

 

Neither the Type-OA visa (nor the LTR visa for that matter) would accept my superior (and former employer subsidized) private Health Insurance with Cigna.  ....  However in the case of the LTR visa (and not in the Type-OA visa case) I was able to avoid paying for double health insurance, by simply pointing to an existing bank account that met the per-requsite for self health insurance.  

 

For the LTR Visa, the money for such self health insurance does not even need to be kept in a Thailand bank.   .... I do note thou one constraint is such self health insurance can't be obtained from an equity trading account.

Edited November 28, 2023 by oldcpu

[Thailand J]

By "self health insurance" you meant keeping $100,000 cash in a bank account, Thai or foreign bank.

Keeping cash is not what I want to do. in 2013 i poured all my cash holding of my portfolio into Berkshire Hathaway at $103 per share, at market closing yesterday BRK/B was $361 per share. At the same time inflation has eroded the dollar purchasing power by 25% in the last decade. Next decade could be worse as high inflation may linger around for a while.

If you add another $250,000 brought into Thailand to qualify for the visa, the real cost is HUGE. I am sure you have your own reasons to do so, and I hope the benefits out weight the real cost of your visa.

 

This is how much cash I keep  :)

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Thailand J

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

By "self health insurance" you meant keeping $100,000 cash in a bank account, Thai or foreign bank.

 

Yes.

 

1 hour ago, Thailand J said:

Keeping cash is not what I want to do. in 2013 i poured all my cash holding of my portfolio into Berkshire Hathaway at $103 per share, at market closing yesterday BRK/B was $361 per share.

 

I did similar with BRK with an equity account ... and I still hold more than $100K worth.  Yes it has gone up nicely and I have greatly benefited.  But as you note, that can NOT be used for Self Health insurance.  An equity account will not be accepted for Self Insurance as I suspect BoI do NOT want to accept self health insurance where one is using their equity trading account to provide such, where stocks in an equity account go up and down. BoI do not want to have to judge the value of one stock.

 

Still, I have a diversified portfolio and I do NOT put all my assets in one stock nor do I put all my assets in equities.  I hold bonds and  cash and other assets. Diversification is very important to me.

 

If keeping $100K US aside for self health insurance stretches one finances, or takes away money that one dearly needs or wants to spend elsewhere, then clearly self health insurance is not suitable for one. But I already have excellent (superior to Thai requirements) Health Insurance which Thailand doesn't accept as my insurance company refuses to provide information in the format Thailand wants.  And the $100k amount bearing a low return , which is needed for Self Health insurance was not an issue for me.  Clearly those with less money will think otherwise.

 

So that self health insurance works fine for myself.  Obviously it is totally unsuitable for others.

 

Clearly for others where not putting that money in equities is a very  BIG DEAL then do NOT go the self insurance route.

 

Each of us have different financial situations.

[Thailand J]

 $100,000 is not a big deal to me one way or another.

It's just not how I would manage my money.

17000B to 25000B is 0.8% of $100,000, it's a no brainier to invest the money and pay the insurance, but only to me,you should do what you are comfy with.

[oldcpu]

47 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

 $100,000 is not a big deal to me one way or another.

It's just not how I would manage my money.

17000B to 25000B is 0.8% of $100,000, it's a no brainier to invest the money and pay the insurance, but only to me,you should do what you are comfy with.

Two points - (1) my checks for health insurance to meet the requirements for my age required MORE than 17k to 25k THB.   And  (2) $100k US$ equivalent, even in an interesting bearing account, as small part of a very large diversified portfolio, is not unusual -and some (dependent portfolio size) might say prudent - and it can give a modest return (together with any larger prudently selected equity returns).

 

As you state - each do what they are comfortable with.  I am NOT comfortable putting all my liquid assets into equities. My diversified investment strategy for the past 40 years has worked well for me. Others clearly have different strategies ... I do note I have acquaintances who threw all their assets in equities, did NOT do well in some times - and they are still trying to recover. In my case, the cash was VERY useful for a very rapid rebound to buy when equities bottomed and just started to recover.   Again - as you suggest - go with what one is comfortable with and what has worked for one..

Edited November 28, 2023 by oldcpu