LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[Cocon]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

No education papers required for a LTR pensioner visa.   

 

Pensioner required docs here:

https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Required-docs-Wealthy-Pensioners-14-05-2024.pdf

Thanks Pib

[mickflick]

So far, I find the processing of my LTR visa application to be a complete disaster. The official was obviously unable to interpret my pension notice and requested a lot of other documents such as my deposit statement. When I sorted that out, the issue of my health insurance began. I have internationally valid private health insurance. A current insurance certificate that I presented did not prevent the official from asking for a receipt from the health insurance company that I had paid contributions. When I provided this, he now wants written confirmation from my health insurance company that they will not cancel my contract or change the tariff while I am in Thailand. The official had already requested the insurance terms and conditions and everything is in there. I referred to this but they only replied that they would check it when I presented the letter from the health insurance company. I could go mad. No insurance company puts up with such a kindergarten drama. I can no longer believe that this is all pure incompetence. I am slowly beginning to suspect that this is being blocked on purpose.  Of course I can use one of these agencies for 81,000 Baht. Then it will probably be sorted out very quickly, as everyone can imagine. But I don't see that as a good idea, because my case is really simple and there are no doubts about it. Has anyone had similar experiences?

[oldcpu]

31 minutes ago, mickflick said:

So far, I find the processing of my LTR visa application to be a complete disaster. The official was obviously unable to interpret my pension notice and requested a lot of other documents such as my deposit statement. When I sorted that out, the issue of my health insurance began. I have internationally valid private health insurance. A current insurance certificate that I presented did not prevent the official from asking for a receipt from the health insurance company that I had paid contributions. When I provided this, he now wants written confirmation from my health insurance company that they will not cancel my contract or change the tariff while I am in Thailand.

 

I concede it can seem like you are going around in circles ... but I think if you stick with it you will succeed. 

 

My experience in different countries around the world when dealing with bureaucracy is that there can be 'hidden reasons for the delays'.  If I had to guess I would say the individual who is handling/screening your case at BoI ran into issues in the past with another applicant, that has irritated that BoI individual screener's boss ...  where the boss is pushing his employee to get more info than normal ... and you being the 'low man on the totem pole' here means it all ends on your lap.

 

I went the $100K US equivalent in the Bank route for self health insurance instead of using my European Cigna (as their paperwork about coverage are simply too massive for BoI to find the very precise information they want to see) and this took me some time to prove (as some of my accounts were not accepted as it was possible to trade equities with them). What some have done is asked their Health Insurance company to write a letter saying one has a health insurance contract with $50K US coverage that expires on such and such a date (or maybe it is open ended with no expiry date).  I did not go that route so I do not know the exact wording in the letter (from insurance company) that was acceptable to BoI.  But when I go for my 5-year re-proof, I think I will try the 'letter' from the Insurance company approach.

 

I took me ~5 months to have my LTR approved, but I succeeded in the end.  Perhaps part of that long duration was my fault, as I only fed BoI the bare minimum for financial proof (as I didn't want to share the entire scope of my finances with them) and maybe that complicated things.

 

Good luck !

[Pib]

13 hours ago, mickflick said:

So far, I find the processing of my LTR visa application to be a complete disaster. The official was obviously unable to interpret my pension notice and requested a lot of other documents such as my deposit statement. When I sorted that out, the issue of my health insurance began. I have internationally valid private health insurance. A current insurance certificate that I presented did not prevent the official from asking for a receipt from the health insurance company that I had paid contributions. When I provided this, he now wants written confirmation from my health insurance company that they will not cancel my contract or change the tariff while I am in Thailand. The official had already requested the insurance terms and conditions and everything is in there. I referred to this but they only replied that they would check it when I presented the letter from the health insurance company. I could go mad. No insurance company puts up with such a kindergarten drama. I can no longer believe that this is all pure incompetence. I am slowly beginning to suspect that this is being blocked on purpose.  Of course I can use one of these agencies for 81,000 Baht. Then it will probably be sorted out very quickly, as everyone can imagine. But I don't see that as a good idea, because my case is really simple and there are no doubts about it. Has anyone had similar experiences?

 

As oldcpu recommended continue to provide as much info as you can, but obviously you are probably not going to be able to provide documentation from your insurance company that they will not cancel your policy or change the tariff while in Thailand.

 

And to give honest feedback when I first read you post (especially the part where I bolded above) I got the impression that BOI feels the policy may not be genuine....kinda like a fake college degree diploma and BOI is asking for additional documentation (i.e., like payment info, etc) to help confirm whether the policy is real or not.  Now of course a person could always submit more fake paperwork to support the initial fake paperwork, but that can get harder to do. 

 

Now the part where BOI asked for paperwork which says the policy will not be cancelled or tariff increased I think that may be a miscommunication...a misworded request....etc., as I can't see any insurance company specifically saying such.  The most they might say is the already stated possible reasons for cancellation which would surely already be documented in the current policy/related policy paperwork.   Or maybe in your case BOI has real concern your policy could be easily cancelled and the premium you already paid pretty much fully refunded...and you might do this right after you get they LTR visa approved.   Maybe BOI has had others do this already....maybe with policies from the same insurance company you are using.   But the more I think about it BOI probably has concerns the policy will provide "continuous" coverage while in Thailand and may instead be a policy that would only provide temporary coverage say for example 30-90 days....many policies are like that where they provide excellent coverage in your home country/certain countries but if you move to another country or saying travelling for a few months the coverage is very limited or non-existent.   You need to show BOI the policy is basically worldwide coverage....coverage that don't stop simply because you are in another country temporarily OR full time.

 

In closing, I DO NOT mean to imply your policy is fake or questionable....no, no, no....I'm not saying that!   But maybe BOI is thinking that based on their past experience with some other applicants.  From looking at the old stats on LTR visas where BOI only reported "applications" whether approved or disapproved "compared" to now where they only report  "approved" applications it's obvious a LOT of applications do not meet requirements for various reasons but applicants still gave it shot, launched a hail mary, etc., to see if their application might get approved especailly since they have nothing to lose like a non-refundable application fee.  And in those cases where BOI asked for additional documentation one or more times it's because the documentation/proof submitted to date is not satisfying BOI.  So, "if possible" submit the requested additional doc and/or include a signed memo from yourself to BOI explaining/clarifying the situation.   Sometimes these personal memos go a long way in clearing things up and satisfying folks.

 

Good luck.

 

[JohnnyBD]

15 hours ago, mickflick said:

Of course I can use one of these agencies for 81,000 Baht. Then it will probably be sorted out very quickly, as everyone can imagine. But I don't see that as a good idea, because my case is really simple and there are no doubts about it. Has anyone had similar experiences?

Why not just buy the insurance from one of the LTR approved providers. It only took 6 weeks to get my LTR visa approved. I used AXA Thailand, which is one of the LTR providers, and it wasn't expensive. I have insurance with Aetna through my company, but after reading about the problems people were having trying to use their existing policies, I decided to do it the easy way, even if it cost me a little extra.

[Pib]

Buying a local insurance policy can work for some but depending on age and/or preexisting conditions it might not be possible or expensive (plus practically useless) for some.  It can really  PO a person when  they have excellent/worldwide insurance but can't satisfy BOI regarding the policy.

[mickflick]

Thank you very much for all the good advice. I have an excellent international health insurance with unlimited cover. So I don't see any reason why I should take out an additional policy just because the BOI is unable to interpret my insurance documents correctly. They also have extensive insight into my (comfortable) financial situation and for that reason alone they shouldn't treat me like a criminal. The BOI also requested my insurance terms and conditions, which state the cancellation terms. I referred to the relevant paragraphs and said that this would explain it better than an insurance letter. They only replied that they would only check it once they have the letter from the insurance company. You have to wonder why they even requested the insurance terms and conditions. What is going on here is so crazy and illogical. My insurance certificate also shows that I have been insured with this insurance company since 1999, so the BOI should also take this into account in their considerations. Furthermore, the insurance policy was up to date and it is actually clear that you do not receive an insurance confirmation if you have not paid the premiums. In this respect, all of this is incomprehensible. The health insurance issue had also been dealt with in the meantime and further confirmation was requested. When I had submitted all of this, the health insurance issue was brought up again with a request for the confirmation letter described above. Just getting confirmation that you had paid the premiums for the last 6 months was extremely difficult because something like that is completely unusual. I had also sent the BOI my bank statements with the deductions for the insurance premiums, but that was not enough for them. It was only through good contacts with my local insurance advisor that I finally got a stamp confirming that I had paid the premiums.  If I now arrive back and want another confirmation letter confirming that the insurance company cannot cancel my policy, everyone will think I am no longer of sound mind. I have written a corresponding letter and asked the BOI official to confirm that it contains all the information that is important to him. I also wrote to him that I am having extreme difficulty getting this type of confirmation letter from the insurance company and that he should please state all the questions he still has about my health insurance now because no further confirmation letters will be possible. Only when I have this confirmation will I bother my health insurance company with this letter. However, I have not received a response from the BOI for 5 days, which is absolutely unusual. Perhaps I worded the letter in such a way that someone has lost face. Who knows. In any case, I have had enough of this whole drama. I'm not particularly spoiled by german authorities, but I've never experienced the way the boi acts here. Communication, if it takes place at all, is very monosyllabic and unfriendly. On the one hand, I don't need the LTR visa and on the other hand, the whole procedure leaves such a bad impression that I am really looking for other destinations.  I have been thinking about Malaysia for a while now and will look into it more closely.

[oldcpu]

8 hours ago, mickflick said:

Thank you very much for all the good advice. I have an excellent international health insurance with unlimited cover. So I don't see any reason why I should take out an additional policy just because the BOI is unable to interpret my insurance documents correctly. They also have extensive insight into my (comfortable) financial situation and for that reason alone they shouldn't treat me like a criminal. The BOI also requested my insurance terms and conditions, which state the cancellation terms. I referred to the relevant paragraphs and said that this would explain it better than an insurance letter. They only replied that they would only check it once they have the letter from the insurance company. You have to wonder why they even requested the insurance terms and conditions. What is going on here is so crazy and illogical. My insurance certificate also shows that I have been insured with this insurance company since 1999, so the BOI should also take this into account in their considerations. Furthermore, the insurance policy was up to date and it is actually clear that you do not receive an insurance confirmation if you have not paid the premiums. In this respect, all of this is incomprehensible. The health insurance issue had also been dealt with in the meantime and further confirmation was requested. When I had submitted all of this, the health insurance issue was brought up again with a request for the confirmation letter described above. Just getting confirmation that you had paid the premiums for the last 6 months was extremely difficult because something like that is completely unusual. I had also sent the BOI my bank statements with the deductions for the insurance premiums, but that was not enough for them. It was only through good contacts with my local insurance advisor that I finally got a stamp confirming that I had paid the premiums.  If I now arrive back and want another confirmation letter confirming that the insurance company cannot cancel my policy, everyone will think I am no longer of sound mind. I have written a corresponding letter and asked the BOI official to confirm that it contains all the information that is important to him. I also wrote to him that I am having extreme difficulty getting this type of confirmation letter from the insurance company and that he should please state all the questions he still has about my health insurance now because no further confirmation letters will be possible. Only when I have this confirmation will I bother my health insurance company with this letter. However, I have not received a response from the BOI for 5 days, which is absolutely unusual. Perhaps I worded the letter in such a way that someone has lost face. Who knows. In any case, I have had enough of this whole drama. I'm not particularly spoiled by german authorities, but I've never experienced the way the boi acts here. Communication, if it takes place at all, is very monosyllabic and unfriendly. On the one hand, I don't need the LTR visa and on the other hand, the whole procedure leaves such a bad impression that I am really looking for other destinations.  I have been thinking about Malaysia for a while now and will look into it more closely.

 

I believe a few (who have posted on this Asean Now forum) have explained their experiences in obtaining BoI approval of their foreign (non-Thai branch) insurance company health insurance.  

 

My understanding from their posts is that they all noted they obtained a letter from their foreign health insurance company, that stated certain things in the letter.  I believe it would be helpful if a sanitized copy of the letter of these successful LTR applicant individuals (with personal info from the letters removed) were posted on AseanNow, such that we could see the exact content that was acceptable to BoI.

 

In my case, not knowing a letter approach would work, and knowing the documentation of my superb European coverage was massive - I did not try to ask BoI to wade through the MANY DOZENS of pages explaining my health insurance coverage.  It was simply too much documentation provided by the insurance company and frankly, I can not see ANYONE wanting to wade through such Insurance company documentation. I don't blame BoI for one second for NOT wanting to wade through a foreign language document.

 

The BoI approach of wanting a letter from the Health Insurance company, stating exactly what BoI want, makes sense.  The problem is (from my view) is it is not clear exactly what should be in the letter, which is why it would be helpful to read of some example Health Insurance company letters that were acceptable to BoI.

 

In my case, I did not know of such a letter approach, so I went the $100K US$ equivalent in a bank route for self health insurance.

 

As for asking your insurance company for another letter. Why not? The worst that will happen is that they will say no.  What are you afraid of there?  Do you think the insurance company will deny your health insurance because you ask for a different letter?  You are not making up the requirements.  BoI is asking for such and you can explain to the insurance company this request does not originate from you.

 

One suggestion I have, is when you communicate via writing to BoI (as a cover page to a document you submit), DO NOT PUT IT ALL IN ONE LARGE PARA (like you did in the quoted post).  Its unpleasant to have to wade through one long paragraph - especially in a foreign language.  

 

Instead, split up the content to multiple relevant subparagraphs which is MUCH easier to read and review.

 

Note - if you are unsure of the status of your BoI application, and if it has been a long time since you have heard from them, you can always phone BoI and very politely ask for a status and very politely ask if there is any other documentation you can provide.

 

As noted - it took me about 5 months, ... but I was VERY polite with BoI through the entire process.

 

Good luck in your efforts.

[oldcpu]

8 hours ago, mickflick said:

Only when I have this confirmation will I bother my health insurance company with this letter. However, I have not received a response from the BOI for 5 days, which is absolutely unusual. Perhaps I worded the letter in such a way that someone has lost face. Who knows. In any case, I have had enough of this whole drama. I'm not particularly spoiled by german authorities, but I've never experienced the way the boi acts here. Communication, if it takes place at all, is very monosyllabic and unfriendly.

 

As I noted - you can call BoI on the phone, and (if you have an English language speaker or a Thai language speaker with you) then you can obtain clarification.  The BoI screeners all speak Thai and English.

 

My experience, having lived in Canada and Germany, is that German authorities are pretty efficient.  Canadian, on the other hand, are NOT as efficient.  So I would be very surprised to see BoI matching Germany efficiency.

 

This is a very long thread ... so likely you did not see my post where I posted on the effort I went through to get my LTR visa (but I succeeded in the end).  I posted about it here (below).

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

Good luck

Edited October 27 by oldcpu

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, oldcpu said:

I believe it would be helpful if a sanitized copy of the letter of these successful LTR applicant individuals (with personal info from the letters removed) were posted on AseanNow, such that we could see the exact content that was acceptable to BoI.

Here's what I submitted -- successfully:

 

[Ben Zioner]

23 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Here's what I submitted -- successfully:

 

Well, this leads me to think that BOI did their homework by researching "Tricare", just as they researched UN ASHI which have been submitted by dozens of applicants. 

 

Evidently they can't do that for every isolated case, and shouldn't be blamed for that.

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Well, this leads me to think that BOI did their homework by researching "Tricare", just as they researched UN ASHI which have been submitted by dozens of applicants. 

 

Evidently they can't do that for every isolated case, and shouldn't be blamed for that.

I tend to agree. 

 

Others who posted about such a letter specifically noted the letter stated over $50k US dollar equivalent coverage.

[Presnock]

On 10/11/2024 at 8:28 AM, Ben Zioner said:

Actually I don't know yet. But it may be worth to err on the side of caution, as they will apply full taxation for every year where you didn't "follow the rule(s)". And as this is Thailand they see benefit in not spelling our the rule(s).

Well the rule about meeting the qualifications during the period of the visa has been around and is for ALL visas.  The rules are spelled out in English too on the revenue dept web site.

[Ben Zioner]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

The rules are spelled out in English too on the revenue dept web site.

So you know for certain whether you have to file an income tax return?  I don't. 

Edited October 27 by Ben Zioner

[Presnock]

1 hour ago, Ben Zioner said:

So you know for certain whether you have to file an income tax return?  I don't. 

well I have read the Thai Revenue Official English translation of the rules that we have to follow - includes having assessable income so must obtain a Thai tax ID number within 60 days and if one has no assessable income then one doesn't have to obtain a tax ID number file ther tax forms.  Now I do realize we are in THailand and since TIT, as they come out with the new tax forms, there may also be some adjustment of the revenue rules on the tax ID as well as who must file the tax forms.  Since the LTR specifically says we do not have to pay tax on remitted foreign income, unless they change that rule too then I don't see how we must file the income tax form.  But  TIT and changes are the true constant. And, the current govt could be gone before too long and even more changes may come about.  As a last resort, the PI awaits for all or return to the US if after the election it remains viable.  The worry about the LTR is just like all the worry about the tax changes that will most likely affect very few people.  As has been said by those who went to the local revenue dept office, those people don't even have a clue yet.  It will be November in just a couple of days, wonder if the "new tax forms" are even close to being finalized.

[Presnock]

2 hours ago, oldcpu said:

I tend to agree. 

 

Others who posted about such a letter specifically noted the letter stated over $50k US dollar equivalent coverage.

I have a US govt sponsored health insurer and each year they provide a benefits brochure - this year's was 17 pages long so I highlighted certain passages within that and forwarded them to the BOI.  Those highlighted indicate "unlimited coverage" for hospitalization overseas but BOI said that wasn't sufficient, meaning I think that the seniors with final approval might not fully understand that phrase so another LTR  holder told me that he had the insurance provider send a letter spelling out clearly that the coverage was over the 50K USD for hospitalization and that was the final straw so I had the LTR then within 2 weeks.  Best deal yet for someone in my category.

[JimmyTobacco]

Am I eligible for this visa or can I somehow get it if I am a self-employed professional in the translation/editing/copywriting sector?

[mickflick]

If the health insurance issue was the only problem, I would still have hope and patience. However, completely different errors have also occurred on the part of the official. Tax notices and my broker's annual tax notice were requested. The official then asked for a written certificate from my broker about the 2023 annual profit. Anyone who knows IB (Interactive Brokers) knows that they don't issue you with something like that. There is no reason because it is all in the annual tax notice. I told the official that I was not supposed to get individual confirmation letters from the broker. They then told me, that the visa could then no longer be processed. I then asked why they needed that at all because a wealthy pensioner does not have to prove their shareholding. The explanation then came that the amount of my pension would not be sufficient. The two pension notices from my insurance company clearly state the monthly pension. However, there is a slightly larger block of numbers on which the back payments are shown because processing my pension claim took several months.  I don't know how the official came to the conclusion that my pension wasn't enough. I then showed him a screenshot and calculated that I could easily meet the requirements of the BOI with my pension. He probably understood the larger block of numbers with the repayment as a pension. Whatever. When that was finally clarified, the thing with the health insurance was reopened. The person processing my application is obviously no longer able to determine the amount of my pension from the pension notice, so at this point I'm really wondering where this is all going. He didn't have to read through the whole document of my insurance conditions to find out the terms of cancelling my health insurance. I kindly pointed out the two paragraphs. I just can't cope with the level of this processing and can't understand it logically. Furthermore, I have also lost confidence in the ability of the person processing it. So I won't make any further efforts.  Perhaps the high rejection rate for LTR visas is because the BOI simply processes the application in such a way that people who are entitled to it simply do not get a visa. In Thailand, it is standard procedure to take a letter from the bank with you on all possible issues for every visit to the authorities. But here you are dealing with an international clientele and large brokers like IB simply do not issue letters about issues that can be found in the deposit statement. But this is obviously not something that the BOI clerks can understand. For me, this is the end of it. I am neither dependent on an LTR visa nor am I married to Thailand.

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, mickflick said:

If the health insurance issue was the only problem, I would still have hope and patience.

....

Tax notices and my broker's annual tax notice were requested. The official then asked for a written certificate from my broker about the 2023 annual profit.

....

The explanation then came that the amount of my pension would not be sufficient. The two pension notices from my insurance company clearly state the monthly pension.

 

...

The person processing my application is obviously no longer able to determine the amount of my pension from the pension notice, so at this point I'm really wondering where this is all going.

....

He didn't have to read through the whole document of my insurance conditions to find out the terms of cancelling my health insurance. I kindly pointed out the two paragraphs.

 

With respect ...and I do mean that ... with respect ... you are expecting too much from BoI, ... and given that, you are correct.  LTR visa likely is NOT the Visa for you, as I suspect you don't see the need for the patience to follow up (or restructure finances to meet the form BoI want).

 

Which is ok. Thailand has many Visa options.  There is no need to go for an LTR visa.

 

Reference the points I quoted above on tax notices ... I ended up giving 3 years of tax records, (an extra year at BoI request) when nominally only 2 required. But so what?  I could upload such from the comfort of my condo balcony with a great view of the sea, sipping a drink, and watching the sunset. That is no hardship for me.

 

As for a written document from your broker - I am surprised BoI even entertain such. Nominally they prefer NOT to handle paper work about regular money from a brokerage (although I think they will reluctantly do such).  They MUCH prefer for pensions to be regular pensions from a government.  One needs to make SPECIAL EFFORT to try to expect BoI to handle brokerage pension? withdrawal? amounts? for the WP-wealthy pensioner.  The BoI point of view is likely your case an exception and they are very leery of giving an LTR in such a case.

 

Reference summing the pension amounts?  I obtain old age security from Canada (paperwork in English).  A pension from Germany (paper work in German language).  A pension from an EU organisation (paperwork in English).   The sum of just my Candian Old Age Security and EU pension exceeded the $40K US equivalent per year.  I did not provide the German pension paperwork.

 

BoI asked for the German pension paper work.  I replied by paper (politely) AND also phoned and politely explained that both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ , and hence I did not want to bother translating the German pension paperwork into English language, since I already exceeded that $40k amount.  They did NOT need to consider my German pension.

 

Then the BoI asked for proof of my Canadian Pension (which I do not get yet, but I am entitled to as I am over age 65).  I figure this was a quality control check to confirm I was not some sort of scam.  I pointed out to BoI (by both upload PDF and by a very polite phone call) that I had deferred my Canadian pension to age-70, and so I was not in receipt of such yet, so I could not give them such proof.  But that once again both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ requirement.

 

They accepted that.

 

Note that when you deal with BoI, you are not dealing with the BoI decision maker. You are dealing with a 'screener' who is at a lower level and presents your material to upper management, who do the approval.  So dependent on the interaction between the screener and the upper level management,  you could have extra requirements thrown your way by the screener (who was pressured by their manager).

 

Honestly, even IF you point out precise para number of a large insurance document, I would be VERY surprised, if BoI accept that.  Again, others have addressed this by (1) an appropriately written letter from the health insurance company or (2) showing $100K in cash in any bank account anywhere in the world (being in the account for >2 years).   This is after all, a "WEALTHY pensioner" visa, ....  

 

For BoI,the wealth has to match their requirements, and if the funds of VERY wealthy people don't match the form of the BoI requirements, BoI expect one to restructure one's finances to meet BoI's requirements.

 

Thats  just the way it is IMHO.   I suspect MANY who are wealthy, have their finances structured in a manner not suitable to BoI, ... and those individuals if they won't restructure some funds to precisely meet BoI requirements , likely are best to apply for a different visa.

 

I am thinking you may be in that latter category.

 

Best wishes to you in the Visa approach (and/or retirement location) you chose instead.

 

Edited October 27 by oldcpu

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

well I have read the Thai Revenue Official English translation of the rules that we have to follow - includes having assessable income so must obtain a Thai tax ID number within 60 days and if one has no assessable income then one doesn't have to obtain a tax ID number file ther tax forms.

....

  It will be November in just a couple of days, wonder if the "new tax forms" are even close to being finalized.

 

Re: the 60 days - its also easier said than done to get a Thai tax ID#.

 

As I have posted before, my Thai wife tried to get such earlier for me this year, and did not succeed.  My case is I have an LTR visa, I have only brought money into Thailand BEFORE 1-Jan-2024 (and not since), and my income source is outside of Thailand. 

 

A local Revenue Department official was quite clear that if I did not bring income into Thailand (from outside of the country) I did not have to file a tax return at present time, so he would NOT activate a Thai tax ID# for me.

 

My wife noted I am on an LTR visa and she suggested I may wish to bring foreign income (pensions) into the country in the future.  So would I thus need a Thai tax ID?  The Thai official noted he saw no need for me to have a Thai tax ID (since I had not brought money into Thailand) and further he noted that he never heard of an LTR visa, and that he would call back - which he never did (this was months ago).

 

From this I deduce there appears to be some 'fuzziness' around the enforcement of the '60-day' requirements, and even the local tax offices don't know yet all the details.  I suspect it may be even sometime after November this year - before there is a more clear guidance on this tax return submission (and hence Thai tax ID) situation.

[JohnnyBD]

I agree. The simpler one's finances, the better odds of being approved quickly. I was fortunate to have traditional pensions in order to qualify. I submitted my two pension verification letters, pension payments history, 1099-R tax forms, US tax return, and the LTR approved AXA Thailand insurance certificate & policy. My LTR-P visa was approved within 6 weeks with no additional requests from BOI. it was very easy...

Edited October 27 by JohnnyBD

[Presnock]

9 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

With respect ...and I do mean that ... with respect ... you are expecting too much from BoI, ... and given that, you are correct.  LTR visa likely is NOT the Visa for you, as I suspect you don't see the need for the patience to follow up (or restructure finances to meet the form BoI want).

 

Which is ok. Thailand has many Visa options.  There is no need to go for an LTR visa.

 

Reference the points I quoted above on tax notices ... I ended up giving 3 years of tax records, (an extra year at BoI request) when nominally only 2 required. But so what?  I could upload such from the comfort of my condo balcony with a great view of the sea, sipping a drink, and watching the sunset. That is no hardship for me.

 

As for a written document from your broker - I am surprised BoI even entertain such. Nominally they prefer NOT to handle paper work about regular money from a brokerage (although I think they will reluctantly do such).  They MUCH prefer for pensions to be regular pensions from a government.  One needs to make SPECIAL EFFORT to try to expect BoI to handle brokerage pension? withdrawal? amounts? for the WP-wealthy pensioner.  The BoI point of view is likely your case an exception and they are very leery of giving an LTR in such a case.

 

Reference summing the pension amounts?  I obtain old age security from Canada (paperwork in English).  A pension from Germany (paper work in German language).  A pension from an EU organisation (paperwork in English).   The sum of just my Candian Old Age Security and EU pension exceeded the $40K US equivalent per year.  I did not provide the German pension paperwork.

 

BoI asked for the German pension paper work.  I replied by paper (politely) AND also phoned and politely explained that both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ , and hence I did not want to bother translating the German pension paperwork into English language, since I already exceeded that $40k amount.  They did NOT need to consider my German pension.

 

Then the BoI asked for proof of my Canadian Pension (which I do not get yet, but I am entitled to as I am over age 65).  I figure this was a quality control check to confirm I was not some sort of scam.  I pointed out to BoI (by both upload PDF and by a very polite phone call) that I had deferred my Canadian pension to age-70, and so I was not in receipt of such yet, so I could not give them such proof.  But that once again both my Canadian OAS and European organisation pension exceeded the $40K US$ requirement.

 

They accepted that.

 

Note that when you deal with BoI, you are not dealing with the BoI decision maker. You are dealing with a 'screener' who is at a lower level and presents your material to upper management, who do the approval.  So dependent on the interaction between the screener and the upper level management,  you could have extra requirements thrown your way by the screener (who was pressured by their manager).

 

Honestly, even IF you point out precise para number of a large insurance document, I would be VERY surprised, if BoI accept that.  Again, others have addressed this by (1) an appropriately written letter from the health insurance company or (2) showing $100K in cash in any bank account anywhere in the world (being in the account for >2 years).   This is after all, a "WEALTHY pensioner" visa, ....  

 

For BoI,the wealth has to match their requirements, and if the funds of VERY wealthy people don't match the form of the BoI requirements, BoI expect one to restructure one's finances to meet BoI's requirements.

 

Thats  just the way it is IMHO.   I suspect MANY who are wealthy, have their finances structured in a manner not suitable to BoI, ... and those individuals if they won't restructure some funds to precisely meet BoI requirements , likely are best to apply for a different visa.

 

I am thinking you may be in that latter category.

 

Best wishes to you in the Visa approach (and/or retirement location) you chose instead.

 

Totally agree that the "screeners" at the BOI while doing the LTR since it began, know full well WHAT the more senior approvers will accept  and that is why they accept or request additional documentation.  Luckiy my financial situation is SUPER simple so it was very easy for me to meet their requirements.  Best of luck to all.

 

11 hours ago, JimmyTobacco said:

Am I eligible for this visa or can I somehow get it if I am a self-employed professional in the translation/editing/copywriting sector?

read the qualification requirements for the different 4 catgories i.e. "professional" and what they require from you.  If in doubt call the BOI and ask.  The speak and understand ENGLISH very well and have always been helpful whenever needed.  Good luck.

[MPoll]

15 hours ago, JohnnyBD said:

The simpler one's finances, the better odds of being approved quickly. I was fortunate to have traditional pensions in order to qualify. 

 

I agree. Simple is nice. I had one work pension that qualified plus my Social Security. When I applied in October 2022 I submitted 1 year of my US tax return. They never asked for anything else about my finances. For insurance I submitted the same insurance certificate I used for my previous OA visa 

[JimGant]

On 10/13/2024 at 3:04 PM, Ben Zioner said:

Section 7 In the case that a foreigner has applied tax reduction or exemption under this Royal Decree, and later does not comply with rules prescribed in Section 3, Section 4, Section 5, and Section 6 in any tax year, benefits will be suspended in that tax year."

How will they know? Still don't know what they'll want at year five, when you have to reconfirm your bonafides; but it would seem it would be same/similar to what you provided at initial application, namely, just current year's data. Thus, you'll probably just have to show year five data. So, if you didn't meet the requirements for years four, three, and two -- only you will know. Now, if you flunk the test for year five, they might insist on a look back to the previous years. Anyway, just an observation, as, unless the US goes out of business -- or BoI no longer accepts Tricare -- not much to worry about for me.

[JimGant]

Maybe I missed it -- but did we get anything definitive about the Royal Decree's actual effect, namely:

-- LTR visa holders, at least WPs, have all remittances exempt from tax, including current (2024) remittances of assessable income..... (?)

 

-- Or, the Royal Decree effectively just grandfathers us under the old rules, namely, 2024 remittances of assessable income ARE taxable -- only if you wait until 2025, or later, will they be exempt. (?)

[Presnock]

2 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Maybe I missed it -- but did we get anything definitive about the Royal Decree's actual effect, namely:

-- LTR visa holders, at least WPs, have all remittances exempt from tax, including current (2024) remittances of assessable income..... (?)

 

-- Or, the Royal Decree effectively just grandfathers us under the old rules, namely, 2024 remittances of assessable income ARE taxable -- only if you wait until 2025, or later, will they be exempt. (?)

Well, I obtained my LTR this current year and was informed by the BOI that remittances of foreign funds was tax exempt by royal decree.  If it had been only on certain foreign funds then I do believe that they would have informed us of that.  If they do go to a different taxation scheme, then who knows if we will still be exempt - at least I will still have only my US govt pension as income so am not worried either way.

[JimGant]

20 hours ago, Presnock said:

well I have read the Thai Revenue Official English translation of the rules that we have to follow - includes having assessable income so must obtain a Thai tax ID number within 60 days

Does that include tourists, here for only 175 days, but sending tons of assessable income to Thailand during that period? Rhetorical question, I hope.

 

Rules that are not well thought out, and that have no loss of any tax receipts, and are realistically unenforceable -- seem to be ignored by Thai bureaucrats -- and could seemingly be safely ignored also by expats.

[Presnock]

20 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Does that include tourists, here for only 175 days, but sending tons of assessable income to Thailand during that period? Rhetorical question, I hope.

 

Rules that are not well thought out, and that have no loss of any tax receipts, and are realistically unenforceable -- seem to be ignored by Thai bureaucrats -- and could seemingly be safely ignored also by expats.

if a "tourist" is only here for 175 days, he is not a tax resident so wouldn't have a tax id nor have to file taxes on any of the funds remitted into Thailand.  If someone knows for sure that they will stay within Thailand for less that the 180 days, then again not necessary to obtain a tax ID (probably Thai Revenue Dept wouldn't provide one for that person anyway.  My personal feeling is that either this scheme or the worldwide income taxation scheme if it ever comes to pass will REQUIRE all adults in Thailand to obtain a tax ID number, but I also don't think that the revenue dept will give a tax ID if one is on tourist visa.  I sure have no idea when or what they will come up with but believe that they are still discussing some ways so that they can milk every baht out of those long stayers.  Possibly will need to tighten up the immigration and tax folks jobs and sharing of what they can get out of the expats. Or maybe they will do as the PI and not tax pensions of foreigners at all.  Then today we see an opposition member talking about the PM dissolving the parliament soon - if this happens, then any tax scheme will probably be put on hold indefinitely.  If it does happen, can see the baht losing steam too as who will want to invest here.  BTW any ideas on what will happen as Thailand joins BRICS next year.  SInce they want to do all away with the dollar/pound/euro - how that will impact us western expats?

[SHA 2 BKK]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

if a "tourist" is only here for 175 days, he is not a tax resident so wouldn't have a tax id nor have to file taxes on any of the funds remitted into Thailand.  If someone knows for sure that they will stay within Thailand for less that the 180 days, then again not necessary to obtain a tax ID (probably Thai Revenue Dept wouldn't provide one for that person anyway.  My personal feeling is that either this scheme or the worldwide income taxation scheme if it ever comes to pass will REQUIRE all adults in Thailand to obtain a tax ID number, but I also don't think that the revenue dept will give a tax ID if one is on tourist visa.  I sure have no idea when or what they will come up with but believe that they are still discussing some ways so that they can milk every baht out of those long stayers.  Possibly will need to tighten up the immigration and tax folks jobs and sharing of what they can get out of the expats. Or maybe they will do as the PI and not tax pensions of foreigners at all.  Then today we see an opposition member talking about the PM dissolving the parliament soon - if this happens, then any tax scheme will probably be put on hold indefinitely.  If it does happen, can see the baht losing steam too as who will want to invest here.  BTW any ideas on what will happen as Thailand joins BRICS next year.  SInce they want to do all away with the dollar/pound/euro - how that will impact us western expats?

I do a fair bit of trade (outside Thailand) with Chinese Companies.  
 

They pay me in USD and RMB.   BRICs won’t mean we can’t deal with Euros, USD or AUD in Thailand anymore.  Simply introduces other currencies as trading currencies rather than the Greenback.  

 

So Somchai the Rice Exporter may find it easier being paid in RMB as it’s quicker than USD from his Chinese buyers whilst the Chinese buyer may prefer this too as converting RMB to USD is costly and time consuming. Maybe the Chinese buyer (as mine do) will offer a better price because of this.  
 

Just have to careful of the volatility pitfalls. 
 

Indeed you can you use the scan QR Code feature from most major Thai Banks to pay for goods and services in China where cash has just about disappeared from use.  BRICs I can sense is trying to provide an alternate to USD denominated trades.   
 

So for most Expats I really can’t see much change.  

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Presnock said:

if a "tourist" is only here for 175 days, he is not a tax resident so wouldn't have a tax id nor have to file taxes on any of the funds remitted into Thailand

Of course. But the "being a tax resident" aspect is not stated in their "get a TIN after 60 days." The below is a little clearer -- but how you incorporate the "60 day" rule is not:

 

Quote

If you receive or remit assessable income in Thailand and reside in Thailand for 180 days or more, you need a Tax Identification Number (TIN).

https://www.expattaxthailand.com/tax-identification-number-thailand/

 

Anyway, if, like me, you'll never have any income -- remitted or worldwide -- that would be subject to Thai taxes -- forget getting a TIN. What could possibly happen? Besides, don't want my name in a TRD data base.