LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[JimGant]

12 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

None of these non-taxable income needed to be included in your tax return if you had to file one for whatever reason. There is no line on tax form 90 or 91 for these non-taxable incomes and it's not correct to add them to taxable income.

My opinion.

 

And an excellent opinion, in my opinion (do I hear an echo...)

[oldcpu]

58 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

"Section 42 The assessable income of the following categories shall be exempt for the purpose of income tax calculation:"

SEction 42 is a list of nontaxable income, do not have to be  reported.

 

Section 5 of RD 743 exempts foreign income earned in the previous  year and remitted into Thailand.

This  foreign income became non-taxable income,the same as those listed in section 42 , in Part ii of Chapter 3 of the Revenue Code.

None of these non-taxable income needed to be included in your tax return if you had to file one for whatever reason. There is no line on tax form 90 or 91 for these non-taxable incomes and it's not correct to add them to taxable income.

 

I hope you are correct ... but I am not yet certain this will be the case.

 

The RD 743 is clear the LTR foreign income is non-taxable (for LTR visa holders), but it is not clear from what I can read that income tax returns are not required.  If it specifically states exempt from 'income tax returns' (and not just 'income tax') I would like to read such as I must have missed such clear statement (and I looked).    I am not keen on submitting more income tax returns than I have to so I would like to read such.

 

There are countries in the world (Canada for example) which want all INCOME reported and not just income that is clearly not-taxable.  The revenue department of Canada likes to make their own judgement on such matters on a case by case basis. 

 

Will this be the case for Thailand?  I don't know. I hope not and I hope you are correct, but when I read the translations of the Royal Decree and the relevant Thai tax chapters, at best I can say is that it is ambiguous.

 

Again - I would like to be proven wrong and have a clear statement from authorities that no tax return is required.

 

Edited January 11 by oldcpu

[TravelerEastWest]

3 hours ago, manon8 said:

Thanks a lot for your very detailed and helpful response.

 

I contacted BOI at the same time that I posted, and they replied to me in like 20 minutes! They confirmed rental income acceptable, and also that if country does not issue tax returns, payslips would do.

 

I just might hire one of those agents to make sure this works in practise.

 

Best regards

I started with an agent and later found that I did better on my own - as in faster and with more accuracy... buyer  beware.

[JimTripper]

2 hours ago, Ben Zioner said:

Seriously? I thought it was the easiest visa to get; showed my pension, showed my health insurance and got my letter of approval. The only extra was that immigration wanted the nod from my wife as I had to cancel my Thai wife extension. Really, it was like one hour on my computer and 90 minutes at Chamchuri. Didn't even need to report my address as I had a holiday abroad.

Ok. I have not had any experience with anything that easy here.

Edited January 11 by JimTripper

[anrcaccount]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

"Aspirational" projections with the 1M farangs signing up for LTR visas over 5 years.  Probably had a TAT rep pull the projection from his backside.

 

The LTR visa income requirements were set way too high to draw a million farangs.   

 

And the govt has most likely set the new Elite Visas prices way too high unless the govt has made a decision (which they will never admit publicly) that they want to limit Elite visas to the truly well-off/rich folks....what better way to do this than raise the Elite visa prices BIG TIME.

 

Thailand has way too high an opinion of itself regarding the number of farangs that want to retire/work here....the govt reads too many of those travel magazine surveys where Thailand always gets high ratings from tourists regarding the holiday/vacation they had in Thailand.   

 

 

Well said, on both counts.

 

LTR has been a complete flop vs the stated projections, from the perspective of the BOI. Most approved applicants already reside in Thailand, and while being good for them ( a simpler , easier visa- fully support those who have it on this thread, good on you) , it certainly hasn't been attracting many new "high potential" foreigners.

 

"Changing the visa type of people who already live here" wasn't the goal of the program, yet it has been the main outcome.

 

On the Elite, a rock-solid source shared that applications have absolutely plummeted since the price changes. We're talking less than 100, since the price changes.

 

Apparently ,Elite Mgmt might need a year or 2 to "save face",  before the program is modified again. The same source, did not believe the govt made a decision to limit Elite to truly rich / well off folks, the changes were just poorly planned / executed, and were not based on customer feedback. 

 

 

[TravelerEastWest]

10 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

Can you provide further details on this, like the online link? Thanx.

My friend used TM 47 I know it says 90 days report but that's what he used...

 

https://tm47.immigration.go.th/tm47/#/home

 

But TM 95 looks better - smiling!

Edited January 11 by TravelerEastWest

[Pib]

4 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You just have to use the correct software. There are many programs that allow you to do exactly what you want, this took a minute or two

 

The real issue is what people want is a fillerable TM95 from the get-go....can fill it in right using a free PDF reader like free Adobe Reader that probably most ever person who uses a computer has on their computer. 

 

If some one could convert the non-fillerable TM95 to a fillerable TM95 that would work on free Adobe Reader that would be great. 

 

Is the whatever software you use free to download....what it is it?

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, TravelerEastWest said:

My friend used TM 47 I know it says 90 days report but that's what he used...

 

https://tm47.immigration.go.th/tm47/#/home

 

But TM 95 looks better - smiling!

The TM47 paper version or online TM47 is for 90 day address reporting.  As you infer the TM95 is for LTR address reporting.    I know the online TM47 version has an area you can click if your visa is a BOI-related visa but Bangkok BOI Chamchuri Sq Immigration  told me face-to-face two different times months apart that the online area dealt with BOI type visa's that require 90 day reporting; not 365 day reporting for the LTR or SMART visa.  Told online report for LTR visa is not available.  

 

Just to confirm, does your friend have an LTR visa?   And is he sure he didn't get an address TM47 receipt for 90 days vs a TM95 receipt for 365 days?

[TravelerEastWest]

48 minutes ago, Pib said:

The TM47 paper version or online TM47 is for 90 day address reporting.  As you infer the TM95 is for LTR address reporting.    I know the online TM47 version has an area you can click if your visa is a BOI-related visa but Bangkok BOI Chamchuri Sq Immigration  told me face-to-face two different times months apart that the online area dealt with BOI type visa's that require 90 day reporting; not 365 day reporting for the LTR or SMART visa.  Told online report for LTR visa is not available.  

 

Just to confirm, does your friend have an LTR visa?   And is he sure he didn't get an address TM47 receipt for 90 days vs a TM95 receipt for 365 days?

 

He has an LTR Pensioner visa which he got just over a year ago  - and he seems to be OK so far with using TM47 but I should ask what his receipt looks like...

Edited January 11 by TravelerEastWest

[SHA 2 BKK]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

And an excellent opinion, in my opinion (do I hear an echo...)

Hear Hear Mister Speaker!!

[Thailand J]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

 

The real issue is what people want is a fillerable TM95 from the get-go....can fill it in right using a free PDF reader like free Adobe Reader that probably most ever person who uses a computer has on their computer. 

 

If some one could convert the non-fillerable TM95 to a fillerable TM95 that would work on free Adobe Reader that would be great. 

 

Is the whatever software you use free to download....what it is it?

 

[Thailand J]

17 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

I hope you are correct ... but I am not yet certain this will be the case.

 

The RD 743 is clear the LTR foreign income is non-taxable (for LTR visa holders), but it is not clear from what I can read that income tax returns are not required.  If it specifically states exempt from 'income tax returns' (and not just 'income tax') I would like to read such as I must have missed such clear statement (and I looked).    I am not keen on submitting more income tax returns than I have to so I would like to read such.

 

There are countries in the world (Canada for example) which want all INCOME reported and not just income that is clearly not-taxable.  The revenue department of Canada likes to make their own judgement on such matters on a case by case basis. 

 

Will this be the case for Thailand?  I don't know. I hope not and I hope you are correct, but when I read the translations of the Royal Decree and the relevant Thai tax chapters, at best I can say is that it is ambiguous.

 

Again - I would like to be proven wrong and have a clear statement from authorities that no tax return is required.

 

Tax code may have some clue but Tax form is what you should look at to answer your question do you need to fill tax return with only one type of income. If you have not look at Thai tax forms it's time  you do. You won't find any section or any line to report non-taxable income, the like kind as those in Section 42. Top of form PND 91 clearly stated section 40 income only. Every section on tax form PND 90 is clearly under subtitle correspond to 8 parts of section 40. Would you submit a blank tax form with your personal data and signature?

The threshold of 60,000B or 120,000B income to file tax return is also section 40 income, it cannot be exempted income, again, where do you enter the 60,000B/120.000B exempted income on the tax form?

Also my opinion :)

 

 

 

Edited January 12 by Thailand J

[Thailand J]

may i add this is the version of Acrobat Reader that I have .I do not have to convert pdf's to fillable to add text.

 

[Pib]

20 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

may i add this is the version of Acrobat Reader that I have .I do not have to convert pdf's to fillable to add text.

 

 

 

That's the very same free Adobe Reader version I have but when opening the TM95 (attached) it is not fillerable.   

 

When you open the attached TM95 is it fillable? If so, is there some setting on free Adobe Reader you are using to make it fillable.  My experience in downloading other immigration forms that are sometimes fillable from the get-go....just open with free Adobe Reader and start typing in text.

 

Blank LTR TM95 Visa 1 Year Address Report Form ตม.95.pdf

 

 

I also went to the Ntiro PDF website in your other post and it seems you need to register with name, email address, etc., to download their Nitro software....I'd prefer not to do such unless I have to...but I realize that's what a person needs to do in many cases which I have done in many cases. 

 

I haven't looked for Nitro yet on other software sites to see if I can download without registering.   

 

I would really just like to get a filllable version that works with any PDF reader....like the free Adoble Reader that most everyone has on their computer.   

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

19 hours ago, Pib said:

Is the whatever software you use free to download....what it is it?

I have several programs that can add text to PDFs, the particular example costs $5.99 today, I have been using it for over 13 years and it is far more than a PDF editor. Since I am familiar with it, it was my go to option.

https://apps.apple.com/gb/app/goodreader-pdf-editor-viewer/id777310222

it certainly isn’t the easiest but the software you know how to use is often the best for you. 
 

I can put any text I like, in any colour I like, in any size I like, in any place I like along with my signature 

Edited January 12 by sometimewoodworker

[Pib]

Thanks...but I see that's an Apple Eco System app....I use Android and Windows.  Plus I was looking for something free that worked on Windows.  And really just for this one TM95 non-fillable form I would rather just fill it out with a pen and then scan it "if" I ever had to upload/email a complete copy.  

 

I think most LTR visa people are just looking for  fillable version of the TM95 that works on "any" free PDF Reader like free Adobe Reader which resides on most Windows computers.  

 

Hopefully there is a fillable TM95 out there in internet land somewhere but the TM95 that BOI emailed me is not fillerable with Adobe Reader.  

 

 

[sometimewoodworker]

12 minutes ago, Pib said:

Thanks...but I see that's an Apple Eco System app....I use Android and Windows.  Plus I was looking for something free that worked on Windows.  And really just for this one TM95 non-fillable form I would rather just fill it out with a pen and then scan it "if" I ever had to upload/email a complete copy.  

 

I think most LTR visa people are just looking for  fillable version of the TM95 that works on "any" free PDF Reader like free Adobe Reader which resides on most Windows computers.  

 

Hopefully there is a fillable TM95 out there in internet land somewhere but the TM95 that BOI emailed me is not fillerable with Adobe Reader.  

 

 

If anyone has the full version of ACROBAT, it is rather expensive, you can try persuading them to create a version for you. However is not the easiest task and it is likely to only work on a subset of systems on a subset of computers. Of course you can install acrobat yourself and do it yourself.

I know of what I speak as I was condemned to do exactly that kind of work using company computers and software, it isn’t worth it. That’s exactly why I use the better SW and HW now

Edited January 12 by sometimewoodworker

[JimGant]

55 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

If anyone has the full version of ACROBAT, it is rather expensive

 

Yeah, and you can't even buy it -- you have to subscribe, and pay annual membership fees. I'm using an  old pirated copy of Acrobat, bought in the back allies of Chiang Mai years ago. I guess those days are gone. Sigh.

[Thailand J]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

That's the very same free Adobe Reader version I have but when opening the TM95 (attached) it is not fillerable

I have downloaded your file and with the same setting it is fillable, do you get the tool bar as I do? by the way I am on win 11 if it matters.

I did not have to register to download Nitro 5, I don't remember from which website, I am using Acrobat Readers mostly for obvious reason.

Edited January 12 by Thailand J

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, Thailand J said:

I have downloaded your file and with the same setting it is fillable, do you get the tool bar as I do? by the way I am on win 11 if it matters.

I did not have to register to download Nitro 5, I don't remember from which website, I am using Acrobat Readers mostly for obvious reason.

 

BINGO!!!!   Yes, I have the tool bar but the "text" icon was not highlighted blue/activated.  I clicked on it to turn it blue/activate it (see snapshot below) and then I could type text into the TM95....turn it off and no-can type text. 

 

I've never, ever had to do this on other fillerable PDF forms I've used over many years.   Maybe those other fillerable PDF forms had underlying, hidden coding that automatically turned on text entry, but this TM95 PDF does not.   

 

Thanks...and to say it again BINGO!!!!  And I use Win 10.

 

 

 

 

[makescents]

Response from the LTR unit on if the LTR can lead to PR:

 

Quote

As of now, LTR Visa applications for Permanent Residence are not accepted. We are actively engaged in discussions with relevant government agencies, and we kindly ask you to stay tuned for further announcements on our website in the near future.

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, makescents said:

Response from the LTR unit on if the LTR can lead to PR:

 

Quote

As of now, LTR Visa applications for Permanent Residence are not accepted. We are actively engaged in discussions with relevant government agencies, and we kindly ask you to stay tuned for further announcements on our website in the near future.

Strange, as long as the LTR offers tax advantages I can see why someone would proceed to PR, which looks like a lot of trouble for less.

[Pib]

I expect the LTR visas will eventually be one of the visa types acceptable to the PR program....but how long "eventually" turns out to be is anyone's guess...."Thai time" marches forward very slowly many times.

 

But if after all the dust settles on this new Revenue Dept ruling regarding taxing of foreign sourced income "when remitted to Thailand,"  since I'm a US citizen and if the US-Thailand DTA ends up shielding the great, great majority of my foreign sourced income (which is govt pensions like social security and similar) and when combined with the deductions/exemptions allowed on any Thai tax return my tax liability to Thailand will probably be zero each year.   Having an LTR Pensioner visa maybe not be needed at all to avoid Thai tax liability. 

 

So, if I could apply for PR based on having an acceptable visa (say a LTR eventually turns out to be acceptable) I would apply.....just to no longer need to worry for the rest of my life about getting/renewing some type of Thai visa that allows me to stay another year, 5 years, 10 years, etc.

 

Now of course since a PR also requires that you have paid taxes/filed a tax return in Thailand for 3 straight years and I've never had to do that (and may never have to) and also pass a Thai language test, those two things may prevent me from ever being able to apply for PR.   Now maybe I can still file a Thai tax return each year with zero tax being due after the DTA and/or LTR income shielding and then meet the PR income tax return requirement...just have the Thai language part to pass.   

 

Yes, hopefully LTR visas will become an acceptable visa for PR application purposes in the future...."eventually."

[TravelerEastWest]

I just tried opening the form 95 on my Mac desktop and using text boxes that I created I could type on the form.

 

See example below - very easy - I imagine newer PCs can do teh same but not sure how...

[Ben Zioner]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

So, if I could apply for PR based on having an acceptable visa (say a LTR eventually turns out to be acceptable) I would apply.....just to no longer need to worry for the rest of my life about getting/renewing some type of Thai visa that allows me to stay another year, 5 years, 10 years, etc

I think that's maybe true for someone that's relatively young. At 71 I'll be very happy if I can live until the expiration of my current visa..

 

7 hours ago, Pib said:

Now of course since a PR also requires that you have paid taxes/filed a tax return in Thailand for 3 straight years

It requires that, but also an uninterrupted stretch of 3 years of employment, backed by work permits. 

 

And then the LTR is so easy to get to going to the contorted PR process would be sheer masochism for older guys like me.

[samtam]

 

 

On 9/21/2023 at 11:57 AM, K2938 said:

This does NOT confirm that foreign income REMITTED to Thailand will NOT be taxed which is the crucial question.  Moreover, in the same fb thread further below the LTR people also repeatedly refused to answer what the situation will be concerning REMITTED foreign earnings.  So they probably either do not want to clarify because the answer is bad or they just do not know.

 

Yes, too many uncertainties to make applying for LTR wealthy pensioner visa, not given definitive approval by RD to all the BOI / LTR responses.

 

 

On 9/22/2023 at 6:42 PM, K2938 said:

On this fb thread the BOI now appears to have confirmed that for LTR visa holders foreign earnings regardless of their remittance stay tax-free: 

Question:  "????????????, ???????????? ???????????????? ???????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ???????????????? ????????????????????????????????? That is really what is supposed to be taxed based on the new tax law changes, regardless of the time it is brought into Thailand. Please kindly also comment on this for LTR visa holders."

Answer BOI:  "We would like to address that for the LTR tax benefits: the revenue department has already announced a royal decree to exempt the LTR- Wealthy Global/ Wealthy Pension/ Work from Thailand from paying the income tax derived from oversea business/ work and assets." 

So if this is true, then this would be good news.

 

As above. Need RD definitive comment.

 

 

On 10/7/2023 at 10:01 PM, Misty said:

For LTR visas, the BoI has clarified that these three categories allow tax free transfers:  GWC, P, WP.  But the LTR Highly Skilled Professionals does not.  Conversely, only one LTR visa has income tax capped at 17% - the LTR HSP.  The other LTR visas all have the normal progressive income tax rates up to 35%.

 

As above. Need RD definitive comment.

 

 

 

On 1/9/2024 at 7:46 AM, SHA 2 BKK said:

I really don't know. 

 

But as I have the Wealthy Pensioner LTV and my only income comes from outside Thailand,  I bring this in the year after it us earned,  and according to Royal Decree 743 that income is Tax Exempt - my thinking is no.   I doubt the Thai RD want a return where no tax is due (and I doubt there is a form to return as such).

 

No assessable income - no Thai Income Tax Return.  And that seems to be the gist on the other tax threads where other Visa holders have asked similar.   

 

I have asked the BOI but was told that the RD will clarify matters - that was some months ago.

 

Highly Skilled LTR Visa holders will have to lodge to claim their 17% - but that is income in Thailand and there is a special lodgement form for that.

 

As above. Need RD definitive comment.

 

As with others who have inquired directly to BOI about tax, I received this reply, (obviously translated from Classic Greek). Mangling the English so badly made me have to re-read this several times:

 

Quote   Greeting from LTR Visa Unit.   While holding LTR Visa, all foreign income that transfer into Thailand will be exempted from tax.   Please be informed that normally, your overseas income will be subject to Thai personal income tax only when you are a tax resident (staying in Thailand 180 days or more in a tax year) and have brought such overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year that you are a tax resident and have received such overseas income. Please refer to Section 41 of the Revenue Code. If the aforementioned conditions aren’t all met, your overseas income won’t be subject to Thai personal income tax and you won’t need personal income tax exemption under Royal Decree No. 743.   If those conditions are all met and you have been granted a Long-Term Resident Visa for Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners, or Work-from-Thailand Professionals, you will receive personal income tax exemption on your overseas income under such Royal Decree even if you have brought overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year.   Under your category, The Department of revenue exempted assessable income under section 40 of the Revenue Code derived in the previous tax year from an employment, or from business carried on abroad, or from a property situated abroad and brought into Thailand. (Foreign-sourced income will be tax exempted)    Royal Decree No.427 Link (Thai): https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/newlaw/dg427KA.pdf   No.427 (English) https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Notification-427.pdf   Royal Decree No.743 Link (Thai):  https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/user_upload/kormor/newlaw/dc743.pdf   No. 743 (English) https://ltr.boi.go.th/documents/Royal-Decree-743.pdf   Kind regards, LTR Visa Unit     your overseas income will be subject to Thai personal income tax only when you are a tax resident (staying in Thailand 180 days or more in a tax year) and have brought such overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year that you are a tax resident and have received such overseas income.   Is that then contradicted by the following in the next paragraph:   If those conditions are all met and you have been granted a Long-Term Resident Visa for Wealthy Global Citizens, Wealthy Pensioners, or Work-from-Thailand Professionals, you will receive personal income tax exemption on your overseas income under such Royal Decree even if you have brought overseas income into Thailand in the same tax year.   Or does the second paragraph say that if you have an LTR for Wealthy Pensioner, then the old tax interpretation (pre September's announcement in 2023 from RD) will apply? I'm just struggling with the way it's written in English, and also that BOI/LTR are giving their interpretation. I would rather wait until RD gives a definitive ruling.   I have read all the posts from page 75 (RD's announcement of their change in interpretation) to the latest, and was in the process of making an LTR application. But the uncertainties make this move seem premature. I can see the benefits of LTR for Wealthy Pensioners, but without definitive clarity on the RD position, I am reluctant to make the switch, (from Extension of Stay based on Retirement).

[Ben Zioner]

10 hours ago, samtam said:

But the uncertainties make this move seem premature. I can see the benefits of LTR for Wealthy Pensioners, but without definitive clarity on the RD position, I am reluctant to make the switch, (from Extension of Stay based on Retirement).

For many, who can justify a pension income of USD 80,000 or more, reusing the THB 800,000 deposit for daily expenses will save them more IT than the 50,000 LTR visa fee. Also over 10 years LTR is probably cheaper than extensions, for most people.

[mudcat]

I also wish to point out for U.S. people cashing out the ThB 800,000 bank account and keeping your combined overseas bank balance at any day of the year less than $10,000 removes the requirement to file FinCEN ,114 to comply with FATCA.  

 

 

[SHA 2 BKK]

Plus no 90 day reports and swift entry into and out of Swampy.    

[makescents]

On 1/12/2024 at 7:14 PM, Ben Zioner said:

Strange, as long as the LTR offers tax advantages I can see why someone would proceed to PR, which looks like a lot of trouble for less.

Having to re-certify every 5 years isn't great. If you lose your job you lose the visa.