Eleven Conservatives now bidding to be next UK prime minister

[JonnyF]

Good to see Hunt and Zahawi out of the race.

 

Not so good to see Sunak leading the race. I don't think he's a vote winner with the public, although if Starmer is still leading Labour at the next election it shouldn't be too much of an issue.

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, James105 said:

If this was a Labour leadership election the bookies would no longer be taking bets as there is only one straight white male left in the competition.  

Prove that. 

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It's no surprise to me that you support racist policies such as shortlisting candidates based on their ethnicity. Many on the left are fine with racism, as long as it's discriminating against the 'correct' race.

 

Are you on board with the antisemitism so rampant in the Labour party as well?

Affirmative action is not racism, such a claim is incorrect. 
 

Please indicate which posts I have made implying I am antisemitic.

[James105]

16 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Prove that. 

Records only go back to 1906, but Labour have never elected anyone other than straight white males to be their leaders.   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_the_Labour_Party_(UK)

 

Viva diversity...

[JonnyF]

15 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Affirmative action is not racism, such a claim is incorrect. 
 

Please indicate which posts I have made implying I am antisemitic.

Affirmative action is absolutely racist since it favours one race against the other. Just because it discriminates against white people, doesn't mean it isn't racist.

 

On the antisemitism, it was simply a question since you appear to be a left wing labour supporter and Labour (and the left generally) has many issues with antisemitism. Since you support racist 'affirmative action' policies which discriminate against white people I was wondering if you also support discrimination against Jews. Not an accustation, just a simple question.  

[Bluespunk]

7 minutes ago, James105 said:

Records only go back to 1906, but Labour have never elected anyone other than straight white males to be their leaders.   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leader_of_the_Labour_Party_(UK)

 

Viva diversity...

I didn’t ask about past votes on a leader. I asked you to prove your claim. 
 

Do so. 

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Affirmative action is absolutely racist since it favours one race against the other. Just because it discriminates against white people, doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Nonsense. 

 

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

On the antisemitism, it was simply a question since you appear to be a left wing labour supporter and Labour (and the left generally) has many issues with antisemitism. Since you support racist 'affirmative action' policies which discriminate against white people I was wondering if you also support discrimination against Jews. Not an accustation, just a simple question. 

I am not a Labour supporter. 
 

Do not accuse me of supporting racism again, you have already implied I am supporting antisemitism.
 

You have no basis for either claim. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Loiner]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Just because it discriminates against white people, doesn't mean it isn't racist.

Of course it is racist. They believe that racism can only work one way and only whites can be racist.
How wrong can they be, but that’s the left for you. Blinded by their own bigotry. (Something else that is not only characteristic of whites.)

[JonnyF]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

Nonsense. 

 

I am not a Labour supporter. 
 

Do not accuse me of supporting racism again, you have already accused me of supporting antisemitism. You have no basis for either claim. 

Yes you're a Democrat supporter if I remember correctly, they also have issues with antisemitism so my question stands. You seem awfully reluctant to address it. Strange... ????

 

You support someone being treated differently, in fact being given priority for something over another person based on their race. That's pretty much the definition of racism. I'm surprised you can't see that. 

 

 

[JonnyF]

Just now, Loiner said:

Of course it is racist. They believe that racism can only work one way and only whites can be racist.
How wrong can they be, but that’s the left for you. Blinded by their own bigotry. (Something else that is not only characteristic of whites.)

Yep. So often with the left, they are what they accuse you of being.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Yes you're a Democrat supporter if I remember correctly, they also have issues with antisemitism so my question stands. You seem awfully reluctant to address it. Strange... ????

 

You support someone being treated differently, in fact being given priority for something over another person based on their race. That's pretty much the definition of racism. I'm surprised you can't see that. 

 

 

I don’t support the Democrats (either U.K. Liberal Democrats or the USA party)

 

Now either prove I am supporting racists/antisemites or cease doing so. 
 

I support polices that ensure diversity and policies that seek to ensure all sectors of a society are represented. Something that appears to upset many- one has to wonder what sort of prejudices cause this…

[JonnyF]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

I don’t support the Democrats (either U.K. Liberal Democrats or the USA party)

 

Now either prove I am supporting racists/antisemites or cease doing so. 
 

I support polices that ensure diversity and policies that seek to ensure all sectors of a society are represented. Something that appears to upset many- one has to wonder what sort of prejudices cause this…

You support racist policies. Dress them up however you like, but discrimination against someone based on their ethnicity is racist. If a white person is not considered suitable for a job simply because they are white, that's racist. It's really simple if you stop to think about it for a moment.

[Bluespunk]

Just now, JonnyF said:

You support racist policies. Dress them up however you like, but discrimination against someone based on their ethnicity is racist. If a white person is not considered suitable for a job simply because they are white, that's racist. It's really simple if you stop to think about it for a moment.

Utter nonsense 

[James105]

38 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

I didn’t ask about past votes on a leader. I asked you to prove your claim. 
 

Do so. 

I have proven it.  This exact same scenario happened in the last Labour leadership election.   Starmer (Straight white male) was up against Nandy (ethnic minority female), Thornbury (female),  Long-Bailey (female) and Phillips (female).

 

Spoiler alert.   The straight white male won it.  

 

If you are asking me to prove the next future labour leadership election then that is just silliness on your part.    

[Bluespunk]

6 minutes ago, James105 said:

I have proven it.  This exact same scenario happened in the last Labour leadership election.   Starmer (Straight white male) was up against Nandy (ethnic minority female), Thornbury (female),  Long-Bailey (female) and Phillips (female).

 

Spoiler alert.   The straight white male won it.  

 

If you are asking me to prove the next future labour leadership election then that is just silliness on your part.    

You have not proved your claim that if an election was being held that a white make would be elected leader of the Labour party.
 

Stop recalling the past and prove your assertion. 
 

Just to help you out, this is what you said

 

”If this was a Labour leadership election the bookies would no longer be taking bets as there is only one straight white male left in the competition”

Edited July 14, 2022 by Bluespunk

[James105]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

You have not proved that if an election was held today that a white make would be elected leader of the party. Stop recalling the past and prove your assertion. 

Dear troll.   Since I cannot magically make a Labour leadership election happen today and view the results of this election it is silly to ask me to try and prove that isn't it?   For that kind of thing we need to look at past performance to see what might happen in the future (which is something that Bookies do when working out odds of something that might happen).   

[OneMoreFarang]

I read this article today. I guess it's a little different perspective than Sky News.

Enjoy!

The Guardian view on the Tory contenders: a parade of denial | Editorial | The Guardian

[Bluespunk]

4 minutes ago, James105 said:

Dear troll.   Since I cannot magically make a Labour leadership election happen today and view the results of this election it is silly to ask me to try and prove that isn't it?   For that kind of thing we need to look at past performance to see what might happen in the future (which is something that Bookies do when working out odds of something that might happen).   

So you can’t back up what you said. 
 

Quelle surprise 

[RayC]

6 hours ago, JonnyF said:

You support racist policies. Dress them up however you like, but discrimination against someone based on their ethnicity is racist. If a white person is not considered suitable for a job simply because they are white, that's racist. It's really simple if you stop to think about it for a moment.

Affirmative action is, by definition, discriminatory as it favours one group - race, gender, religion, class, economic grouping, etc - over others. However, imo the more pertinent question is that justified?

 

The Tory party's philosophy is 'Equality of opportunity'. It doesn't exist at the moment which is, presumably, one reason why their flagship strategy is 'Leveling Up'. Ignoring the fact that no Conservative seems to be able to define what policies this entails, if you 'level up' you must surely favour those at the bottom (at the relative expense of those above them). This is obviously a form of discrimination. Are you against 'Leveling Up'?

[Bluespunk]

Braverman out of contest as Sunak maintains lead - second ballot results

 

Rishi Sunak - 101 (up 13)

Penny Mordaunt - 83 (up 16)

Liz Truss - 64 (up 14)

Kemi Badenoch - 49 (up 9)

Tom Tugendhat - 32 (down 5)

Suella Braverman - 27 (down 5)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jul/14/tory-leadership-race-conservative-liz-truss-penny-mordaunt-rishi-sunak-uk-politics-latest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Edited July 14, 2022 by Bluespunk

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Braverman out of contest as Sunak maintains lead - second ballot results

 

Rishi Sunak - 101 (up 13)

Penny Mordaunt - 83 (up 16)

Liz Truss - 64 (up 14)

Kemi Badenoch - 49 (up 9)

Tom Tugendhat - 32 (down 5)

Suella Braverman - 27 (down 5)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/jul/14/tory-leadership-race-conservative-liz-truss-penny-mordaunt-rishi-sunak-uk-politics-latest?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. At least that's the hard-line ERG candidate out of the running.

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, RayC said:

I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. At least that's the hard-line ERG candidate out of the running.

Yep. 
 

That candidate would have been a nightmare. 

[Bluespunk]

Oh dear, a party that has made a habit of stabbing leaders in the back , now seems to be doing the same with prospective candidates. 
 

I’d like to say I’m shocked but I really am not…
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/14/rival-camps-uk-tory-leadership-race-aim-fire-penny-mordaunt?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Edited July 14, 2022 by Bluespunk

[JonnyF]

12 hours ago, RayC said:

Affirmative action is, by definition, discriminatory as it favours one group - race, gender, religion, class, economic grouping, etc - over others. However, imo the more pertinent question is that justified?

 

The Tory party's philosophy is 'Equality of opportunity'. It doesn't exist at the moment which is, presumably, one reason why their flagship strategy is 'Leveling Up'. Ignoring the fact that no Conservative seems to be able to define what policies this entails, if you 'level up' you must surely favour those at the bottom (at the relative expense of those above them). This is obviously a form of discrimination. Are you against 'Leveling Up'?

Nice try, but you are tieing yourself in knots trying to justify a racist, discriminatory policy.

 

Discrimination is never justified. The rest of your diatribe ignores the fact that some of the worst performing students, and poorest students in the UK are white boys. So your solution is to further disenfranchise them in the job market by discriminating against them on the basis of their skin colour because you assume that they are more priviliged than a wealthy black or Asian student (who may have just left Eton)?

 

Assuming privilige is based on race is an outdated and divisive concept. There are plenty of poor white kids and plenty of wealthy black/Asian kids. Supporting policies that further disadvantages poor white kids based on their ethnicity is not only racist, but immoral.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Nice try, but you are tieing yourself in knots trying to justify a racist, discriminatory policy.

 

Discrimination is never justified. The rest of your diatribe ignores the fact that some of the worst performing students, and poorest students in the UK are white boys. So your solution is to further disenfranchise them in the job market by discriminating against them on the basis of their skin colour because you assume that they are more priviliged than a wealthy black or Asian student (who may have just left Eton)?

 

Assuming privilige is based on race is an outdated and divisive concept. There are plenty of poor white kids and plenty of wealthy black/Asian kids. Supporting policies that further disadvantages poor white kids based on their ethnicity is not only racist, but immoral.

I don’t know who you are arguing with, nobody here is saying privilege is based on race, that there are no poor white kids of that there are no wealthy Black/Asian people. 
 

Me thinks you are cooking up some faux outrage.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I don’t know who you are arguing with, nobody here is saying privilege is based on race, that there are no poor white kids of that there are no wealthy Black/Asian people. 
 

Me thinks you are cooking up some faux outrage.

So if we can accept that privilige is not based on race, why discriminate against white people that apply for a job, simply because they are white? Sounds kind of racist to me, no?

 

I'm yet to hear a good argument that justifies it. Just posts like yours which are essentially a load of fluff that is a poor attempt to deflect from the question. 

 

I will ask again, why do you believe in discriminating against people on racial grounds?

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

So if we can accept that privilige is not based on race, why discriminate against white people that apply for a job, simply because they are white? Sounds kind of racist to me, no?

 

I'm yet to hear a good argument that justifies it. Just posts like yours which are essentially a load of fluff that is a poor attempt to deflect from the question. 

 

I will ask again, why do you believe in discriminating against people on racial grounds?

That's an extremely tired argument. Affirmative action is not racial discrimination.

 

There are government bodies dealing with employment discrimination and none see fit to agree with you.

Edited July 15, 2022 by ozimoron

[SatEng]

I believe this thread is about candidates for the conservative party leadership, not historic labour party issues or systemic racism, unless one of the candidates makes a remark referencing this.

Someone needs to get a grip on this bickering

[baboon]

4 minutes ago, SatEng said:

I believe this thread is about candidates for the conservative party leadership, not historic labour party issues or systemic racism, unless one of the candidates makes a remark referencing this.

Someone needs to get a grip on this bickering

When all your candidates are scrapings from the bottom of the bin, it is best to attempt a bit of a diversion from the fact...

[JonnyF]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's an extremely tired argument. Affirmative action is not racial discrimination.

 

There are government bodies dealing with employment discrimination and none see fit to agree with you.

More fluff which simply restates the argument for this racist policy without addressing the question.

 

Affirmative action is simply a play on words, a feeble attempt to put a positive spin on a policy that discriminates against people on racial grounds. Shameful stuff that should have been left in 1950's America.