Trump did nothing to stop his supporters as they attacked Congress, threatened Pence, witnesses tell Jan. 6 committee

[Hanaguma]

29 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

They didn’t get to search all 9,997 did they. Anyway the numbers are going up, a fourth was charged on the 17 June with having a semi automatic handgun and a rifle. he belongs to the Three Percenters militia.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/january-6-capitol-riot-firearm-guy-reffitt/

Ooooh, a FOURTH was charged with having a weapon in the vicinity. Only 9,996 to go.

 

Which still begs the unanswered question- why did the rest forget to bring them?  Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man. I mean seriously, can you see the conversation in the insurrection planning meetings?

 

Insurrectionist A: "OK, we are ready to storm the Capitol! Everyone tooled up?"

Insurrectionist B: "Yep, got my bear spray."

Insurrectionist C..."Roll of quarters in my pocket"

Insurrectionist A: "Right, let's roll!"

 

Later that day, at the Capitol......

 

Insurrectionists A B and C... "Doh!"

[coolcarer]

9 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ooooh, a FOURTH was charged with having a weapon in the vicinity. Only 9,996 to go.

 

Which still begs the unanswered question- why did the rest forget to bring them?  Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man. I mean seriously, can you see the conversation in the insurrection planning meetings?

 

Insurrectionist A: "OK, we are ready to storm the Capitol! Everyone tooled up?"

Insurrectionist B: "Yep, got my bear spray."

Insurrectionist C..."Roll of quarters in my pocket"

Insurrectionist A: "Right, let's roll!"

 

Later that day, at the Capitol......

 

Insurrectionists A B and C... "Doh!"

You said there were none ????

[Credo]

5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ooooh, a FOURTH was charged with having a weapon in the vicinity. Only 9,996 to go.

 

Which still begs the unanswered question- why did the rest forget to bring them?  Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man. I mean seriously, can you see the conversation in the insurrection planning meetings?

 

Insurrectionist A: "OK, we are ready to storm the Capitol! Everyone tooled up?"

Insurrectionist B: "Yep, got my bear spray."

Insurrectionist C..."Roll of quarters in my pocket"

Insurrectionist A: "Right, let's roll!"

 

Later that day, at the Capitol......

 

Insurrectionists A B and C... "Doh!"

Ah, so now we will justify your falsehood.  That is a true mark of a Trump supporter. 

 

You can't bring a weapon into a rally with the president.  The majority of people went to Washington to attend a rally.  The call to go to the Capitol was announced to most at the rally, not before.  Some people did know and that's the reason for the cache of weapons stored off site.  It was planned.  It was coordinated.  Here's from a tweet that was shared during the Jan 6 Committee:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/05/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-says-phone-records-subpoenaed-by-house-jan-6-committee.html

 

He knew they were armed -- and they may have been informed of the plan to invade the Capitol.   Here's more about them:

Trump knew crowd at rally was armed yet demanded they be allowed to march

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/28/trump-jan-6-rally-guns-capitol-attack

 

 

[Hanaguma]

30 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

You said there were none ????

None in the Capitol. A few on the grounds. Out of thousands.  And still no answer- why didn't EVERY ONE of those crazy white nationalist conspirators bring firearms? You are ignoring that relevant point to focus on insignificant details.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

None in the Capitol. A few on the grounds. Out of thousands.  And still no answer- why didn't EVERY ONE of those crazy white nationalist conspirators bring firearms? You are ignoring that relevant point to focus on insignificant details.

Because a lot of them believed that simply invading the Capitol would bring on THE STORM. After all, Q had told them so. Apparently, even Ginny Thomas believed that nonsense.

[Hanaguma]

29 minutes ago, Credo said:

Ah, so now we will justify your falsehood.  That is a true mark of a Trump supporter. 

 

You can't bring a weapon into a rally with the president.  The majority of people went to Washington to attend a rally.  The call to go to the Capitol was announced to most at the rally, not before.  Some people did know and that's the reason for the cache of weapons stored off site.  It was planned.  It was coordinated.  Here's from a tweet that was shared during the Jan 6 Committee:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/05/mypillow-ceo-mike-lindell-says-phone-records-subpoenaed-by-house-jan-6-committee.html

 

He knew they were armed -- and they may have been informed of the plan to invade the Capitol.   Here's more about them:

Trump knew crowd at rally was armed yet demanded they be allowed to march

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/28/trump-jan-6-rally-guns-capitol-attack

 

 

You mean the "cache of weapons" in the pickup truck that had a grand total of 3 firearms? The one that was parked a half mile away?  Hell, most of the rioters would have had a heart attack if they had to walk a half mile out and back to get a weapon.  THESE are the guys who are going to overthrow the US government?  Give me a break.  

 

You are giving these guys waaaaaaay too much credit. Try again. 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because a lot of them believed that simply invading the Capitol would bring on THE STORM. After all, Q had told them so. Apparently, even Ginny Thomas believed that nonsense.

You'll have to do better than that... seriously.

[placeholder]

Just now, Hanaguma said:

You'll have to do better than that... seriously.

Who declared you the referee?

[coolcarer]

8 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

None in the Capitol. A few on the grounds. Out of thousands.  And still no answer- why didn't EVERY ONE of those crazy white nationalist conspirators bring firearms? You are ignoring that relevant point to focus on insignificant details.

No you mean no others that have been charged you did not reply to me in my first post when I said did you really think they were all searched? Besides which how many guns do you need to kill a person or for that matter carry out a mass shooting?

[candide]

45 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Ooooh, a FOURTH was charged with having a weapon in the vicinity. Only 9,996 to go.

 

Which still begs the unanswered question- why did the rest forget to bring them?  Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man. I mean seriously, can you see the conversation in the insurrection planning meetings?

 

Insurrectionist A: "OK, we are ready to storm the Capitol! Everyone tooled up?"

Insurrectionist B: "Yep, got my bear spray."

Insurrectionist C..."Roll of quarters in my pocket"

Insurrectionist A: "Right, let's roll!"

 

Later that day, at the Capitol......

 

Insurrectionists A B and C... "Doh!"

No one claimed that all the people who stormed the Capital had planned a coup. 

 

It's only a minority who did plan an insurrection (I.e. the white supremacists who have been accused of conspiracy).

 

The others just went to a rally, and then got inflamed by Trump and followed his call to walk down to the Capitol. Had Trump not got them excited and not told them to march to the Capitol, they probably would not have assaulted it.

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

It looked to me like a case of, when a dog chases a car it never thinks that it would actually catch it. Then it DOES catch the car- what to do now?   Something in me sees the demonstrators being a bit, well, surprised that they could actually get into the Capitol so easily. That is why so many of them were standing around with dumb looks on their faces, as if to say, "wait a minute, are we really HERE?"

 

Plus one big element was missing if this was actually a planned coup attempt- guns. In a country of 400 million guns, a group of right wingers (who are always stereotyped as gun owners) somehow forgot to bring their weapons to a coup.  The only guns on scene were the police. The only person shot was an unarmed protester. 

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say both that this was a planned insurrection and also that the insurrectionists failed to pack heat.  The two don't go together.

That right wing talking point has been dispelled. Links to evidence that there were guns in the crowd, especially at the Trump rally have been posted previously. It's sad that you choose not to read them and persist in peddling this misinformation.

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, coolcarer said:

No you mean no others that have been charged you did not reply to me in my first post when I said did you really think they were all searched? Besides which how many guns do you need to kill a person or for that matter carry out a mass shooting?

But this isn't about killing someone or a mass shooting. It is an INSURRECTION.  A planned takeover of the government and replacing it with something else.   There are thousands of hours of video from the Capitol. You can be sure that if ANYONE was spotted brandishing a gun inside the building, that footage would have been splashed across the networks for weeks. 

 

But that didn't happen. 

[Hanaguma]

2 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That right wing talking point has been dispelled. Links to evidence that there were guns in the crowd, especially at the Trump rally have been posted previously. It's sad that you choose not to read them and persist in peddling this misinformation.

A few random handguns in the crowd, of course.  Guns in the Capitol, no. I think too many people fervently WISH that an insurrection had been planned. It would justify all the rent-free living that Trump has been doing in their heads.  Yet it just isn't there. 

 

This was an ugly riot in a season of ugly riots. It was only weeks before that businesses in major American cities were being boarded up? Why? It was election night. The worry was that, if Trump won, there would be violence in the streets. Much the same as had been happening for 6 months. 

[coolcarer]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

But this isn't about killing someone or a mass shooting. It is an INSURRECTION.  A planned takeover of the government and replacing it with something else.   There are thousands of hours of video from the Capitol. You can be sure that if ANYONE was spotted brandishing a gun inside the building, that footage would have been splashed across the networks for weeks. 

 

But that didn't happen. 

No but it is about you claiming there were no guns and that those being charged are mostly being found via cctv, social media and FBI investigations, all after the fact. None are going to offer up and admit to carrying a concealed weapon. What is difficult to understand about that?

[Credo]

28 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

None in the Capitol. A few on the grounds. Out of thousands.  And still no answer- why didn't EVERY ONE of those crazy white nationalist conspirators bring firearms? You are ignoring that relevant point to focus on insignificant details.

Wrong again:

In March 2022, 49-year-old Texan Guy Reffitt, was convicted (among other charges) for being unlawfully present on Capitol grounds while possessing a firearm and transporting firearms during civil disorder.

A Department of Justice indictment from January 2021 also states that Christopher Alberts, Maryland, was found carrying a Taurus G2C semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds on January 6.

Off-duty Drug Enforcement Administration agent Mark Sami Ibrahim, 32, was also indicted by a grand jury for bringing a firearm within the United States Capitol and its grounds.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-there-armed-protesters-capitol-january-6-1715326

 

Please note, the last person did have a weapon inside the Capitol.  Other insurrectionists have bragged about having weapons.  

 

Having a weapon ON the grounds is no different than inside.  It's still illegal.  

 

And yes, it does count if you have a cache of weapons stashed for the purpose of commiting a crime.  

 

Your denials are beginning to look suspect.   Perhaps you could just state your agenda.

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

A few random handguns in the crowd, of course.  Guns in the Capitol, no. I think too many people fervently WISH that an insurrection had been planned. It would justify all the rent-free living that Trump has been doing in their heads.  Yet it just isn't there. 

 

This was an ugly riot in a season of ugly riots. It was only weeks before that businesses in major American cities were being boarded up? Why? It was election night. The worry was that, if Trump won, there would be violence in the streets. Much the same as had been happening for 6 months. 

Trump lost and there was violence in the streets.

[ozimoron]

Appearing on CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday morning, Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) left no doubt that the House committee investigating the Jan. 6th insurrection will definitely consider issuing a subpoena to Ginni Thomas, wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, if she refuses to testify.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/ginni-thomas-2657718889/

[candide]

19 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

But this isn't about killing someone or a mass shooting. It is an INSURRECTION.  A planned takeover of the government and replacing it with something else.   There are thousands of hours of video from the Capitol. You can be sure that if ANYONE was spotted brandishing a gun inside the building, that footage would have been splashed across the networks for weeks. 

 

But that didn't happen. 

Again, nobody claimed most protesters planned a "takeover of the government and replacing it with something else."

 

You are making it up in order to score a point.

 

TheJan 6 committee does not claim it. The accusation during the trial did not claim it either. Only a few white supremacists have been accused of conspiracy.

The others went to a rally and followed Trump's call.

Edited July 24, 2022 by candide

[Jingthing]

14 minutes ago, Credo said:

Wrong again:

In March 2022, 49-year-old Texan Guy Reffitt, was convicted (among other charges) for being unlawfully present on Capitol grounds while possessing a firearm and transporting firearms during civil disorder.

A Department of Justice indictment from January 2021 also states that Christopher Alberts, Maryland, was found carrying a Taurus G2C semi-automatic handgun on Capitol grounds on January 6.

Off-duty Drug Enforcement Administration agent Mark Sami Ibrahim, 32, was also indicted by a grand jury for bringing a firearm within the United States Capitol and its grounds.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-were-there-armed-protesters-capitol-january-6-1715326

 

Please note, the last person did have a weapon inside the Capitol.  Other insurrectionists have bragged about having weapons.  

 

Having a weapon ON the grounds is no different than inside.  It's still illegal.  

 

And yes, it does count if you have a cache of weapons stashed for the purpose of commiting a crime.  

 

Your denials are beginning to look suspect.   Perhaps you could just state your agenda.

 

 

 

Just read between the lines.

[Hanaguma]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Just read between the lines.

Genuinely curious. Did any of the people arrested inside the Capitol building have guns?  I know there were a few outside, that is frankly irrelevant. If they were so intent on insurrection, why didn't they go into the Capitol? Shoot some cops?

[Scott]

 

Continue with baiting, bickering posts will result in a formal warning.  It's trolling and violates the following:

 

10. You will not post troll messages. Trolling is the act of purposefully antagonizing forum members by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other members into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

 

 

 

[ozimoron]

2 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Genuinely curious. Did any of the people arrested inside the Capitol building have guns?  I know there were a few outside, that is frankly irrelevant. If they were so intent on insurrection, why didn't they go into the Capitol? Shoot some cops?

Very few, if any, people were arrested inside the Capitol building so we will never know.

 

Approximately 140 police officers were assaulted at the Capitol, including about 80 U.S. Capitol Police and about 60 from the Metropolitan Police Department.

Approximately $1.5 million in damage to the U.S. Capitol building was done during the attack, according to a May 2021 estimate by the Architect of the Capitol. 

 

More than 350 people believed to have committed violent acts on Capitol grounds, including over 250 who assaulted police officers, are still sought by the FBI. 

 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/jan-6-by-the-numbers-775-arrested-1-5m-in-damage-to-capitol/2998034/

[Hanaguma]

45 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Very few, if any, people were arrested inside the Capitol building so we will never know.

 

Approximately 140 police officers were assaulted at the Capitol, including about 80 U.S. Capitol Police and about 60 from the Metropolitan Police Department.

Approximately $1.5 million in damage to the U.S. Capitol building was done during the attack, according to a May 2021 estimate by the Architect of the Capitol. 

 

More than 350 people believed to have committed violent acts on Capitol grounds, including over 250 who assaulted police officers, are still sought by the FBI. 

 

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/jan-6-by-the-numbers-775-arrested-1-5m-in-damage-to-capitol/2998034/

So, is your contention that there were numbers of armed rioters actually inside the Capitol building, but they never took their guns out? AFAIK, the only firearm used on January 6 was a police officer who killed a protestor.  

 

I have no problem with the rioters being charged and convicted. Ditto anyone who assaulted a police officer. But I don't see there was any insurrection happening, any danger to the country, any assault on "Our Democracy" as is so dramatically intoned ad nauseum by the talking heads on TV. 

[candide]

Back to topic: Trump made incendiary statements before and during the rally, sent his followers to the Capitol, and then watched them on TV assaulting the Capitol for 3 hours, doing nothing to stop it.

 

[heybruce]

8 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

It looked to me like a case of, when a dog chases a car it never thinks that it would actually catch it. Then it DOES catch the car- what to do now?   Something in me sees the demonstrators being a bit, well, surprised that they could actually get into the Capitol so easily. That is why so many of them were standing around with dumb looks on their faces, as if to say, "wait a minute, are we really HERE?"

 

Plus one big element was missing if this was actually a planned coup attempt- guns. In a country of 400 million guns, a group of right wingers (who are always stereotyped as gun owners) somehow forgot to bring their weapons to a coup.  The only guns on scene were the police. The only person shot was an unarmed protester. 

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't say both that this was a planned insurrection and also that the insurrectionists failed to pack heat.  The two don't go together.

The demonstrators didn't need guns because they had numbers on their side, and the numbers worked.  They succeeded in storming the Capitol, causing Congress and the Vice President to seek safety, and temporarily stopping the certification of the election results.  They did this after Trump told them to march to the Capitol and fight like hell.

 

The fact that they didn't have a plan for what to do next does not change the fact that they were there at the urging of Trump to stop the certification of the election results and to prevent the peaceful transition of power for the first time in US history.  People who deny the significance of this are Trump cultists who put Trump before country.

[Credo]

47 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The demonstrators didn't need guns because they had numbers on their side, and the numbers worked.  They succeeded in storming the Capitol, causing Congress and the Vice President to seek safety, and temporarily stopping the certification of the election results.  They did this after Trump told them to march to the Capitol and fight like hell.

 

The fact that they didn't have a plan for what to do next does not change the fact that they were there at the urging of Trump to stop the certification of the election results and to prevent the peaceful transition of power for the first time in US history.  People who deny the significance of this are Trump cultists who put Trump before country.

I think the whole situation is a little deeper than that.  It was better orchestrated and planned.  The Proud Boys knew what to do and when.  They didn't attend the rally and positioned themselves at various points around the Capitol prior to the rally even ending.  All they had to do was wait for the 'orders' to be given at the rally and the insurgents to arrive and that's what happened.  

 

The rally attendees by and large had little knowledge of what they were getting into.   As many of them have already testified, they went to the Capitol because the President told them too and they retreated when they were told to.  They were simply foot soldiers.   What they did was illegal and egregious, but their participation and planning was limited.   That is why they were not well armed with guns.  The planners behind this were armed and a back up arsenal was not far away.   

 

Remember, Steve Bannon's podcast before Jan 6, in which he said it wasn't going to be like you think and that 'All Hell Going to Break Loose’.  He had spoken with Trump on Jan 5.  It's clear that Bannon knew, the President knew and the Proud Boys knew.  They were following Trump's directives.  They had been told to 'stand down and stand by.'  That's what they had done and now was their time to stand up.   

 

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/02/972895521/prosecutors-proud-boys-gave-leader-war-powers-planned-ahead-for-capitol-riot

 

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/steve-bannon-trump-phone-call-jan-6-1381848/

[Phoenix Rising]

16 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Ooooh, a FOURTH was charged with having a weapon in the vicinity. Only 9,996 to go.

 

Which still begs the unanswered question- why did the rest forget to bring them?  Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man. I mean seriously, can you see the conversation in the insurrection planning meetings?

 

Insurrectionist A: "OK, we are ready to storm the Capitol! Everyone tooled up?"

Insurrectionist B: "Yep, got my bear spray."

Insurrectionist C..."Roll of quarters in my pocket"

Insurrectionist A: "Right, let's roll!"

 

Later that day, at the Capitol......

 

Insurrectionists A B and C... "Doh!"

"Can't have an insurrection in America without guns, man."

 

Clearly you're wrong as the evidence shows but hey, what are facts to you MAGA fans, right?

[Phoenix Rising]

Ooooh, that must have hurt!

 

A Sunday Miracle: Fox News Audience Exposed to Jan. 6 Truth During Liz Cheney Interview

 

"In a rare moment on Fox News, its viewers heard the truth about Jan. 6 — thanks to Rep. Liz Cheney, one of two sitting Republicans on the committee investigating the Capitol attack. Despite Bret Baier’s attempts to push the Fox/Trump narrative that the Jan. 6 committee is biased and a sham, Cheney debunked talking point after talking point."

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Clearly you're wrong as the evidence shows but hey, what are facts to you MAGA fans, right?

"First, Republicans use any means necessary to achieve power and promote their unpopular, extremist, counter-majoritarian agenda," he explained. "Second, they create and promote disinformation and lies to frighten their base and Jedi mind-trick them into believing they are being oppressed by the actual victims."

The third step, he explained, is to create a villain and target them.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/how-republicans-brainwash-supporters-columnist/

[candide]

Trump omitted several lines that encouraged the federal government to take action. ????

“I am directing the Department of Justice to ensure all lawbreakers are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,” the omitted portion of the speech reads

 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/trump-removed-line-calling-to-prosecute-jan-6-rioters