We are finding it hard to retain staff. Many resign and dont give notice.

[wbmjc]

On 7/31/2022 at 5:50 PM, connda said:

We are finding it hard to retain staff. Many resign and dont give notice.

Perhaps you should reflect on how you treat your staff?  Just reflecting on years as an employed person and the reasons why I quit?

Give your management style a serious review. 

Where there is smoke, there is fire.  Just saying. 

We certainly need someone who never had staff in Thailand and perfectly know nothing to explain us how to behave....

so funny...

 

 

[wbmjc]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:45 AM, Stevemercer said:

Most western countries pay fortnightly. I think this allows better budgeting and a more manageable cash flow.

 

You are clearly wrong about EU....

It seems that everybody is paid by month in our countries...

 

[wbmjc]

On 7/29/2022 at 12:56 PM, Sydebolle said:

Thailand's labour market is hopelessly spoilt and absolutely destructive; for me reason enough to sell my restaurant (5 years ago); I will never ever do anything here again which depends on labour.

It is not about the pay, it is about the absolute lack of loyalty and that belongs into the educational corner of children - which is in blunt absence as we know.

They got, in the day, a minimum of 15,000 Baht, six days a week with seven working hours; a free meal, all the rest like SS, health insurance, uniform  (which we washed at our premises for them). 
Salary end of the month, tips were accrued (never below 10,000 Baht/person) and paid middle of the month, so they would have money twice a month. Working conditions were nice with mandatory working blocks (Xmas, New Year, Songkran, Loy Krathong) which got compensated with one month fully paid vacation. 

Despite all those fringe benefits - nothing extraordinary as an European employer - I had staff disappearing into thin air without notice nor apparent reason. All departures were not work-related as I checked, if there were some tensions among the staff prior to the disappearance. 

 

Leaving without notice cost them physical money, either part of the salary or part of the tip money; they were made aware of that during the hiring interview - to no learning curve. One kitchen helper  left on 12 April (for Songkran most likely), losing 27/30th of a full month tip (THB 14'320) and 12/30th of the salary (15'500 Baht) - in total 19'000 Baht. Well, face, family calls or god-only-knows-what influenced the fellow to write-off 19'000 Baht and I was short of a kitchen helper. 

Don't apply corrective, constructive criticism, as it concerns the semi-divine face. Staff was told,  during the hiring interview, about hygiene. There was a separate (sparkling clean) staff toilet, shower and a basin to wash hands. It was an absolute law in my place to wash hands on leaving the loo. Failure to do so would result in immediate dismissal. Over the 15 years I had the restaurant, I must have fired 10 staff I caught (and the dark figure is considerably higher). See above for "education corner"!  

I have no recipe; being nice and correct is definitely not a guarantee and I am not a slave trader as some local businesspeople were. 

Get a quota for ASEAN migrants (Burmese, Cambodians, Laotians or Philippines), depending on what you need and take it from there. We were given quotas only under the condition, if we would hire ASEAN-staff through agents sitting in front of the labour department of Cholburi. We did that, paid the agent their commission and saw the same staff being "moved" three times from place to place and the agent creamed off the commission each and every time. So I gave up on the quotas and started hiring non-existing staff ????. Then I realized, that the Thai staff considered ASEAN colleagues of lesser status who should be paid less than Khon Thai. I intervened on that idea and two Thai staff left - see "face and loss of the latter"! 

In the end, I gave up, sold the business and Thailand lost some 1'700'000 Baht direct and indirect tax money from my company. 

you failed and lost money but it was because of the staff ???? hahaha, sure, not because of you...

 

people living in their own bubble with closed eyes ....

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, wbmjc said:

another joke of the day ! hahaha

Those are facts 

[scorecard]

On 7/29/2022 at 10:35 AM, Purdey said:

A pity we don't know the type of business. Looks like education doesn't play a role. Money is good but Thais without education aren't looking for a career. This sounds like "just another job" and the market is awash with vacancies. There are educated Thais in my company who resign, but a year or two later they apply again as they realize this is a better company than the one they went to. People really don't think of a job as a career.

Thais who go to visit the family and don't return is a common occurrence. 

I remember when some Thai football players were sent to the UK to train with a major club. After a year, they were begging to go home:

"I miss my mother." (Literally what they said)

"I cannot eat the food here."

"It is too cold."

In other words, Thais will give up a well-paid job for the comforts of home.

Try looking for experience at the interview stage. Try not to hire people who worked a year here and six months there. Interview more that 5-6 people. I have found that the third interviewee was the best but persevered in order to avoid missing someone better.

"

"I miss my mother." (Literally what they said)

"I cannot eat the food here."

"It is too cold."

In other words, Thais will give up a well-paid job for the comforts of home."

 

All of the above applies to another employment situation; Thai and international companies sending Thai executives/experts abroad on 1 or several year assignments.

 

Bottom line: there's very few Thais assigned abroad. All for the reasons above. And in many instances they ignore the often quite large benefits:

 

- Big jump in salary, perhaps including highly subsidizing mortgage etc., payments back in Thailand

- Executive acommodation, all paid, very large house, possibly with pool

- Regular air travel home including: the exec. employee, his/her spouse, kids, maid(s), cook

- Thai maid(s), cook, nanny, etc., paid by the copany all provided with good accommodation

- Expensive vehicle provided

- High quality education all paid for their children

and more

 

I'm aware (when i was working as a management consultant) of several Thai companies who wanted to have long-term trusted management employees manage/control operations abroad, they apprached several high performing Thai staff but never ever got anybody to agree to go abroad.

 

I'm aware of one giant highly successful high profile Thai company which has big operations in several other countries (most in Asia but also in Europe), not one Thai employee abroad.

 

(On the other hand the Thai company I'm referring to wants to become more international in the way they operate, they have discovered high performing/very high potential managers & leaders in several SE Asian countries, employed them and been highly impressed. So impressed that they have brought several of these people to their HO operations in Bkk in very senior exec. roles.

 

Initially these folks not well accepted by their Thai reporting staff in Bkk., but fairly quickly their staff realizing that the 'Asian foreigners' were making clever strategies etc and very always wanting the reporting staff to share their thoughts and ideas.)

 

An additional reason why the Thai managers (as above) don't/won't go to assignments abroad is they are aware that management discussions and discussions with their reporting staff are often more direct which they can't cope with.  

Edited August 9, 2022 by scorecard

[Sydebolle]

On 8/9/2022 at 12:56 PM, wbmjc said:

you failed and lost money but it was because of the staff ???? hahaha, sure, not because of you...

 

people living in their own bubble with closed eyes ....

 

 

I run a chain of restaurants, got out of it prior to Covid for a more than tidy sum and a nice jump-start into retirement. I would have never parted with it, if I would have been able to get the staff situation stabilized. Even tried, applying the AEC2015 treaty, with Filipinas in service and Indonesian cooks; the ratio given by the almighty government was one "alien" per five Thais. The Thais made sure to sour up their ASEAN brothers and sisters for sheer jealousy reasons. While you try to make operational ends meet, Thais and their semi-divine government comes and moves the ends. 

That was the ongoing case and criteria; I sold my place and now it features 160 Thai apartments for rent for all those Thais who are too lazy to do a proper job and rather sleaze around in the twilight zone of Fellini's "La Strada"; working in a house of ill repute seems to be the name of the game - financially most likely more rewarding than cooking and serving. Unlike the latter profession, cooking and serving might be longer lasting and better for soul and self-esteem, me thinks ????  But yes, many domestic destinations are not visited for their temples and orchid farms .........

[samtam]

On 7/28/2022 at 9:44 PM, jack71 said:

We have a small business and employ up to 5 workers. They work hard but we pay the well above the norm compared to our competitors. We pay double time if they work on public holidays. They are registered on SS system. We follow labor laws. We give them 500 lunch money per month and overtime from 430pm onwards. Im always buying fruit and cakes for them to eat during the day etc. 

 

Despite all this we are finding it tough to keep our workers staying long term. We just had a member of staff say to us a few weeks ago that she wanted to take a week off and see her family. Shes only been with us for 4 months and she agreed no pay this week. So she is off this week and we get a message saying sorry but she will not be coming back. We didnt reply to this line message. Totally unreliable and annoying for us. I dont want to pay her because she hasn't given us any notice. I feel I want to teach her a lesson. What would you do? It will be annoying if she turns up and makes drama demanding her salary. 

 

This <deleted> has been happening for several years. Staff quit anytime they want. We learnt not to pay annual bonuses on the 29th dec right before they go away for holidays. The reason is we always have staff that dont come back on the 5th Jan. Now we pay monthly bonuses on the 15th of each month on the proviso that they turn up on time and no casual days off (ie dont turn up for some random reason)

 

We are obviously not employing graduates from Mahidol uni and I understand the mindset of the average thai that has no education. But one would assume most people would be professional enough to respect the boss enough to just give 2 weeks to a month notice. I feel living in this third world mentality here in Thailand is wearing me down. We have a successful business but its completely dependent upon our staff turning up. 

I have found the same in trying to employ a maid. I have had 5 this year. They appear to be happy, but then either have another job opportunity, or just decide that it's not for them. Of course, that is their right, but the labour market has certainly been upended by covid.

 

In the first 15 years in Bangkok we had 2 maids, (8 years + 6 years), but during covid we had quite a turnover; we asked 2 (separately) not to come in because we (and they, and most people) were not vaccinated. We continued to pay them full salary for 2 months each. They then decided to leave. It's very frustrating, but unfortunately seems to be very common now.

 

I also know there's a dire shortage of technicians. In the latter case many potential candidates have become food/delivery motocy drivers. Same sort of income level, but they are their own boss.

 

In the case of maids, I think many went back to their home towns to live within their extended family units, and there they have remained because the certainty of job security is still very low, and the cost of living, (rent largely), is very high and pretty grim in Bangkok.

 

I think this scenario will continue for another 6-12 months, or when the covid fallout stabilises. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by samtam

[findlay13]

500 bht a month lunch money that's about 13+ bht a day?Wow!

Edited August 12, 2022 by findlay13

[samtam]

On 7/28/2022 at 10:44 PM, Scott said:

I think that in the past, employers have had a habit of stiffing employees out of wages for time worked.  Pretty much any excuse to not pay was good enough.  This has encouraged a culture of collect your pay and leave.  

 

It makes it very difficult for those employers who do value their employees and treat them fairly.  It's probably best to make sure you pay any agreed to outstanding wages.  Keep your reputation in tact even if they don't.  

It's good advice, (to pay on time and treat staff well), and I always do, despite the fact that most have absolutely no sense of loyalty, and quitting on the spot seems to be quite "normal" in Bangkok. A vicious circle. 

[findlay13]

What's wrong with these damn natives don't they want to be exploited anymore?????

[Old Croc]

The thread has had 159 replies, some helpful or sympathetic, many derisive and insulting and others just taking the opportunity to air their thoughts on Thais and their culture.

 

The OP hasn't bothered to respond to any. 

[jack71]

49 minutes ago, findlay13 said:

500 bht a month lunch money that's about 13+ bht a day?Wow!

24 working days in a month. 500 / 24 = 21 baht a day. Please think before you type next time. 

[jack71]

24 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

The thread has had 159 replies, some helpful or sympathetic, many derisive and insulting and others just taking the opportunity to air their thoughts on Thais and their culture.

 

The OP hasn't bothered to respond to any. 

I will just do whatever I want. This is not North Korea. I am not obliged to reply. It is not the law

 

I hope that this lack of control that you have over me doesnt affect your day?