Thai Chinese air drill likely to create turbulence in procurement of F35 fighter jets

[GinBoy2]

9 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Is Xi willing to risk the economic fallout if he invades Taiwan.  Besides sanctions, the U.S. and its allies could impose a blockade that would disrupt shipping and devastate the Chinese economy and also affect its food supply.  Only time will tell.

Don't wanna derail this thread, but...

 

If Xi was to decide to invade Taiwan that would also imply taking out US military assets in Japan at the same time.

 

Thats a WW3 scenario, and I'm not sure Xi is ready for that....yet!

[GinBoy2]

And as for giving F-35 technology to a country which is at best a 'leaky ship', that almost laughable

[Hawaiian]

21 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

Don't wanna derail this thread, but...

 

If Xi was to decide to invade Taiwan that would also imply taking out US military assets in Japan at the same time.

 

Thats a WW3 scenario, and I'm not sure Xi is ready for that....yet!

Let us hope that "yet" never comes.  While China has a formidable military force Xi knows such a decision will not end well for China.  China has few allies and most would be of little help.

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Is Xi willing to risk the economic fallout if he invades Taiwan.  Besides sanctions, the U.S. and its allies could impose a blockade that would disrupt shipping and devastate the Chinese economy and also affect its food supply.  Only time will tell.

That was probably said of Putin...yet here we still are.

[hotchilli]

22 hours ago, pattjock said:

maybe they will be allowed to by the F35 without an engine!!

Or the so important helmet.. Thais don't need them anyway.

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, Gknrd said:

And Japan could care less about Thailand.  Japan and China will exploit Thailand to the fullest... 

Japan uses Thailand for cheap auto manufacturing, if the labour costs go up much they will pull the plug on Thailand... that will cripple Thailand.

[KannikaP]

11 hours ago, rudi49jr said:

Actually both (could care less and couldn’t care less) are correct and mean the same thing, that’s what’s so confusing….

Sorry but you are wrong. With COULDN'T CARE LESS you are at the bottom of your 'caring ladder', but if you COULD CARE LESS, you are not there yet.

[Gknrd]

1 hour ago, hotchilli said:

Japan uses Thailand for cheap auto manufacturing, if the labour costs go up much they will pull the plug on Thailand... that will cripple Thailand.

Look at Mexico now. It is becoming the Automotive hub of North America. Parts, assembly etc.  I have read it is now cheaper to move factories to Mexico from China and SE Asia because of labor costs and logistics of getting the finished product to market.

The next few years are going to be a night mare for so many countries as America brings it's manufacturing home. There is no reason for the US to take care of the maritime trade anymore. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Gknrd

[hotchilli]

1 minute ago, Gknrd said:

Look at Mexico now. It is becoming the Automotive hub of North America. Parts, assembly etc.  I have read it is now cheaper to move factories to Mexico from China because of labor costs. 

I'm sure Japan is watching closely... 

[Hawaiian]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That was probably said of Putin...yet here we still are.

Russia does not need to import oil nor food to feed its 145 million people while China has 1.4 billion hungry mouths to feed.  How long do you think China will last if the tankers and the container ships of food stop coming? 

One of the goals of the Belt Road Initiative was to prevent this from happening.  Ever wonder why you don't hear much about this gargantuan project anymore?

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Russia does not need to import oil nor food to feed its 145 million people while China has 1.4 billion hungry mouths to feed.  How long do you think China will last if the tankers and the container ships of food stop coming? 

One of the goals of the Belt Road Initiative was to prevent this from happening.  Ever wonder why you don't hear much about this gargantuan project anymore?

I still am 'unsure' that the West would take on China, if the latter decided to reclaim Taiwan....I would expect the Chinese to be as unpredictable as the Russians, and maybe not tolerant of being kept in a corner. They are odd people  but fiercely patriotic. Russia went and simply grabbed a nearby food-basket.... and I also believe would support China. 

[Gknrd]

3 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Russia does not need to import oil nor food to feed its 145 million people while China has 1.4 billion hungry mouths to feed.  How long do you think China will last if the tankers and the container ships of food stop coming? 

One of the goals of the Belt Road Initiative was to prevent this from happening.  Ever wonder why you don't hear much about this gargantuan project anymore?

Exactly!  estimates are only a month or so before the lights go out. After that famine and total collapse.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Gknrd

[Hawaiian]

Patriotism usually gets thrown out the window when you and your loved ones have no food on the table.  Have you seen videos of Chinese fighting against the police when they are denied access to the bare necessities?  Have you seen how aggressive Chinese shoppers are when faced with limited food in the markets?

Russia may side with China, but in actuality will do little to help.  Historically, both countries have been at odds and do not trust each other.

While I claim both Russian and Chinese ancestry it is ironic that I detest both countries.

[Photoguy21]

One thing that is not apparent in the replies but is worth noting is that no military aircraft supplied to another country has the same specification as the aircraft for the home country. A lot of facilities are not provides or taken down to low, very low, levels.

[GinBoy2]

One thing that all this turmoil has revealed is that globalization is dead and buried.

 

The idea after the end of the cold war was that we could all be friends and trade together.

 

Manufacturing moved swiftly from the West to China, energy dependance for Europe moved to Russia.

 

Well Ukraine, Hong Kong, threats to Taiwan have pretty much knocked all of that in the head.

 

We are seeing a pretty rapid retreat to the 1980's orthodoxy of power blocks.

 

Manufacturing is beating a pretty hasty retreat back to the US and North America in general and the CHIPS act is pretty significant.

I worked in semiconductors all my working life and few of you really comprehend how much we globally depend on one single company, TSMC for all advanced semiconductor manufacturing. The chip may well be designed in California or Munich but its manufactured in Taiwan. 

If and when Beijing does go for it and try to invade Taiwan all Hell will break loose.

 

So the idea that the US would give Thailand access to F-35 technology which would without a doubt leak to the CCP and aid and abet the regime is farcical.

[Hawaiian]

Losing access to the chips that TSMC produces is a major reason to protect Taiwan from China.  People like GinBoy2 have been warning about this for quite awhile.  Finally Congress has decided to act, hoping that Taiwan doesn't fall before  U.S. chipmakers

can start production.

As far as I know, China still does not have the technology and equipment to make nano chips. 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Hawaiian
correct error

[Hawaiian]

2 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

One thing that all this turmoil has revealed is that globalization is dead and buried.

 

The idea after the end of the cold war was that we could all be friends and trade together.

 

Manufacturing moved swiftly from the West to China, energy dependance for Europe moved to Russia.

 

Well Ukraine, Hong Kong, threats to Taiwan have pretty much knocked all of that in the head.

 

We are seeing a pretty rapid retreat to the 1980's orthodoxy of power blocks.

 

Manufacturing is beating a pretty hasty retreat back to the US and North America in general and the CHIPS act is pretty significant.

I worked in semiconductors all my working life and few of you really comprehend how much we globally depend on one single company, TSMC for all advanced semiconductor manufacturing. The chip may well be designed in California or Munich but its manufactured in Taiwan. 

If and when Beijing does go for it and try to invade Taiwan all Hell will break loose.

 

So the idea that the US would give Thailand access to F-35 technology which would without a doubt leak to the CCP and aid and abet the regime is farcical.

One of the stories told is that if the West diverted manufacturing to China and partnered with Chinese companies the country would evolve to a form of democracy.

As we well know now,  Xi has become more authoritarian, and silences anyone who dares to challenge his leadership. 

We also know that the real motive in moving to China was money.  So much money that it was worthwhile putting up with rampant corruption and industrial espionage.

Lesson learned.  Think not.  The big boys are still there.

[GinBoy2]

2 hours ago, Hawaiian said:

Losing access to the chips that TSMC produces is a major reason to protect Taiwan from China.  People like GinBoy2 have been warning about this for quite awhile.  Finally Congress has decided to act, hoping that Taiwan doesn't fall before  U.S. chipmakers

can start production.

As far as I know, China still does not have the technology and equipment to make nano chips. 

 

China has long been subject to restrictions to leading edge technology, and rightly so.

 

My last job was in lithography and China was forbidden to acquire EUV equipment which would enable sub 10nm device manufacture without double patterning.

 

We then get into highly technical stuff when trying to pattern sub 3nm which are essentially a few atoms width.

 

Give the Chinese that kind of technology and we're <deleted>&^&^ed

[jacko45k]

19 hours ago, Gknrd said:

Exactly!  estimates are only a month or so before the lights go out. After that famine and total collapse.

I seem to recall that in early days of The Russian Invasion claims were made that Russia would be brought to it's knees by the sanctions.... does not seem to be the case after 6 months. 

[kimamey]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:10 AM, Photoguy21 said:

Even if, and the possibility is so close to zero it isn't worth mentioning, did manage to buy them the version would be so watered down it wouldn't be worth having.

Be like having a catapult against an Exocet missile.

That's not true. 

They might not be any use in a military conflict but then is that really a problem for Thailand?

They would however be perfect for the Thai military to play in. Maybe a flight for the girlfriend to improve their sex life?

[kimamey]

6 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

I seem to recall that in early days of The Russian Invasion claims were made that Russia would be brought to it's knees by the sanctions.... does not seem to be the case after 6 months. 

The opposite in some respects but it may well have an effect in the longer term. 

It's not really Russia as a country we need to defeat but Putin and his government. 

[bangon04]

On 8/18/2022 at 4:24 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

The Thais have already stated they are not buying the weapons systems for these planes.

 

The whole thing is quite farcical really. 

They need something to decorate the aircraft carrier for state occasions 

[Hawaiian]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I seem to recall that in early days of The Russian Invasion claims were made that Russia would be brought to it's knees by the sanctions.... does not seem to be the case after 6 months. 

The sanctions imposed are mostly against Putin and his buddies. Only targeting the oligarchs is not very effective.  Every Russian bank should have been sanctioned.  Access to SWIFT should have been immediately denied.  Sanctions that were considered to hurt the general population were not imposed.  Not playing hardball is not very smart.

 

I believe Gknrd was responding to what might happen in a scenario where both sanctions AND a blockade were employed.  As I mentioned, China is very reliant on imported food and fuel, whereas Russia is not.

[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, Hawaiian said:

As I mentioned, China is very reliant on imported food and fuel, whereas Russia is not.

Russia may well come to the aid of China if sanctions were imposed....they have a 4000km land border and North Korea would be involved in a port blockade... I do not have a lot of faith in sanctions achieving much... have they ever done?

[Photoguy21]

5 hours ago, kimamey said:

That's not true. 

They might not be any use in a military conflict but then is that really a problem for Thailand?

They would however be perfect for the Thai military to play in. Maybe a flight for the girlfriend to improve their sex life?

Exactly. They could count the flying unicorns at the same time.

[GinBoy2]

This is for the Europeans chickens coming hone to roost.

 

The only reason Russia can afford this war is because idiots, in particular Merkel decided to become an energy cuckold to Russia. If you cut off the demand for energy from Russia, which is pretty much all they have to sell, they would be on their knees within a month.

 

But here we are, Western Europe without many energy options essentially funding Russia's war in Ukraine.

 

Well Done!

[John Drake]

On 8/20/2022 at 5:07 AM, Hawaiian said:

One of the stories told is that if the West diverted manufacturing to China and partnered with Chinese companies the country would evolve to a form of democracy.

As we well know now,  Xi has become more authoritarian, and silences anyone who dares to challenge his leadership. 

We also know that the real motive in moving to China was money.  So much money that it was worthwhile putting up with rampant corruption and industrial espionage.

Lesson learned.  Think not.  The big boys are still there.

That was the fantasy fed by the likes of the Bushes and Clintons, who were busy cashing in.

[bendejo]

Some interesting stuff about the F-35

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/8/21/2117895/-So-what-to-do-when-an-F-35-is-coming-for-a-visit-and-you-have-to-get-them-on-your-network

Quote

What people fail to appreciate about the F-35 is that it is not only stealthy, it is a powerful sensor platform and information node. It can see farther, it can see more, and it can communicate that information to where it can best be put to use. It can be a force multiplier, extending the reach of other weapons systems, whether they are other aircraft, ground forces, naval assets, or anyone else who needs that information.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2022 by bendejo

[Hawaiian]

11 hours ago, John Drake said:

That was the fantasy fed by the likes of the Bushes and Clintons, who were busy cashing in.

Then Hunter Biden decided he wanted in on the action.

[heybuz]

On 8/19/2022 at 5:23 PM, Hawaiian said:

Patriotism usually gets thrown out the window when you and your loved ones have no food on the table.  Have you seen videos of Chinese fighting against the police when they are denied access to the bare necessities?  Have you seen how aggressive Chinese shoppers are when faced with limited food in the markets?

Russia may side with China, but in actuality will do little to help.  Historically, both countries have been at odds and do not trust each other.

While I claim both Russian and Chinese ancestry it is ironic that I detest both countries.

The ccp fears there own people more than any outside threat chinese history.

Edited August 21, 2022 by heybuz
old person