Biden cancels $10,000 in federal student loan debt for most borrowers

[zzaa09]

U.S. politics and associated.

Whatta grand show of deception and fancy. 

[ThailandRyan]

21 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

U.S. politics and associated.

Whatta grand show of deception and fancy. 

But is it just the US......I know the OP is on this but reality is it is something folks want everywhere, and yet there Governments deceive and yet are two faced as well.

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

What more to say about the national debt than that it’s taken a fifth of tax revenues to pay just the interest rate that can spend on meaningful policies to benefit the people. The worse aspect of this huge growing debt is that the dysfunction political system is not geared to do anything about it. The Rep Party need to contribute to policies for the people. Only one party is working for the people. The other working for one man. 

Does it matter who benefits from this maddening level of deficit spending.  In the end all will have to pay for it and suffer the consequences.  In my case by the time no one is willing to buy US Debt(Treasury Bills) I will probably be dead.  Unfortunately those who are children today will be living in a different kind of America.  It is no longer the land of opportunity.  It is simply where you can get stuff for free.  If I was a poor migrant from anywhere in the world I would be the Mexico-USA border as well.  

 

In the end "things are never truly free".  It is true Donald Trump added wildly to the US Debt but does Joe Biden doing the same okay because he is helping the poor and needy?  When the rich are taxed to the max then who will be left to pay more taxes?  These are questions the progressives in America do no answer.  

 

 

[sqwakvfr]

46 minutes ago, KanchanaburiGuy said:

A tax cut allows you to keep more of the income you're already reporting. It is not additional  income.

 

Getting to keep more of your own money is not "additional income."

 

When something causes your Adjusted Gross Income on your tax form to go up, that's when you're likely to wind up paying more taxes. A tax cut has no affect your Adjusted Gross Income. None whatsoever.

Very well said.  I have had the same CPA do my tax returns for the last 35 years and he has the same in the past. 

[dj230]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Federal Student Debt is excluded from bankruptcy settlement, the last administration saw to that.

Yes, which is why I said those who owe student loans and can't pay should take out a loan to pay off their student debt and then declare bankruptcy. 

 

[placeholder]

26 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The term tax cheats would more commonly be used to those who evade tax in the first place but  those not paying their debts are a big problem too. The third big problem is existing loopholes such that many corporations, and those who can afford the best advice, can find offshore and other solutions to  pay a lower marginal rate of tax that many average wage earners. 

All three problems can be helped by beefing up and funding the IRS with 1. smart well paid staff to increase audits at all levels but mainly at the top, 2. tax specialists who can identify loopholes and propose a fairer tax code, and 3. IT specialists and new computer systems that can increase the current poor technology to better data match and to identify evasion and find those who can pay their debts and choose not to. 

Biden's new funding of the IRS with an additional $80 billion can help this happen. If done correctly  it should bring in additional taxes of multiples of this. 

It should also be noted that Republicans starved the IRS of funding for years. Not only the investigators but also those who took calls and answered questions. The point being to make people hate the IRS. So a lot of this funding isn't going towards making the IRS bigger and better than ever. It's going to restore it to what it once was. And with what's left over, go after the wealthy who are believed to have taken advantage of the lax enforcement not just to avoid taxes, but to evade them.

[Fat is a type of crazy]

52 minutes ago, placeholder said:

It should also be noted that Republicans starved the IRS of funding for years. Not only the investigators but also those who took calls and answered questions. The point being to make people hate the IRS. So a lot of this funding isn't going towards making the IRS bigger and better than ever. It's going to restore it to what it once was. And with what's left over, go after the wealthy who are believed to have taken advantage of the lax enforcement not just to avoid taxes, but to evade them.

The $80 billion figure does make it way bigger than it has been for at least generations. This article from 2018 shows funding had been cut in the 90's but reached a dollar peak of $14 billion in 2012 and then slowly reduced to 12 billion in 2018. In 2021 it was 12.6 billion. 

How the IRS Was Gutted — ProPublica

Biden is adding $80 billion over a number of years  - unless I am misinterpreting this, that is by any measure a huge increase that can revolutionise the department, and if well spent is much needed.

 

Edited August 28, 2022 by Fat is a type of crazy

[Scott]

Let's please stay on topic which is not about the IRS.  

 

[ozimoron]

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said Saturday that Congress could reverse the 2017 GOP tax cuts, which overwhelmingly benefited the rich and large corporations, to finance the cancellation of all remaining student loan debt after President Joe Biden announced his more limited plan to wipe out $10,000 for most borrowers.

 

"Never forget: 83% of the Trump tax breaks are going to the top 1%."

 

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), signed into law by former President Donald Trump in 2017, is projected to cost around $1.9 trillion over a decade. Total U.S. student loan debt is currently around $1.75 trillion.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/aoc-student-debt/?traffic_source=Connatix

[candide]

20 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Does it matter who benefits from this maddening level of deficit spending.  In the end all will have to pay for it and suffer the consequences.  In my case by the time no one is willing to buy US Debt(Treasury Bills) I will probably be dead.  Unfortunately those who are children today will be living in a different kind of America.  It is no longer the land of opportunity.  It is simply where you can get stuff for free.  If I was a poor migrant from anywhere in the world I would be the Mexico-USA border as well.  

 

In the end "things are never truly free".  It is true Donald Trump added wildly to the US Debt but does Joe Biden doing the same okay because he is helping the poor and needy?  When the rich are taxed to the max then who will be left to pay more taxes?  These are questions the progressives in America do no answer.  

 

 

What "taxed to the max"? Taxes are rather low in the U.S.

"Total US tax revenue equaled 24 percent of gross domestic product, well below the 34 percent weighted average for other OECD countries."

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally#:~:text=Budget and Economy-,How do US taxes compare internationally%3F,average for other OECD countries.

Edited August 29, 2022 by candide

[EVENKEEL]

1 minute ago, candide said:

What "taxed to the max"? Taxes are rather low in the U.S.

"Total US tax revenue equaled 24 percent of gross domestic product, well below the 34 percent weighted average for other OECD countries."

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally#:~:text=Budget and Economy-,How do US taxes compare internationally%3F,average for other OECD countries.

Low taxes and guns, this is America.

[frantick]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Federal Student Debt is excluded from bankruptcy settlement, the last administration saw to that.

If you mean Republican, true, but it was passed in 2005, not Trump. 

 

Joe Biden voted for it. 

[sqwakvfr]

30 minutes ago, candide said:

What "taxed to the max"? Taxes are rather low in the U.S.

"Total US tax revenue equaled 24 percent of gross domestic product, well below the 34 percent weighted average for other OECD countries."

https://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/how-do-us-taxes-compare-internationally#:~:text=Budget and Economy-,How do US taxes compare internationally%3F,average for other OECD countries.

It is called incentive.  Low tax countries create and encourage innovators.  When was the last time an innovative idea came out of France?  What motivates the likes of modern innovators?  Wealth or pay up to 70-90 % in taxes if one becomes successful and wealthy.  If the US goes in the same direction as most western European countries does anyone really believe the next Amazon, Google or even Tesla will come from within country?  

 

What is the income tax rates for those classified as wealthy in Singapore? I can guess it is not even close to western European Countries.  It does not matter what I or anyone believe is fair or not because Joe Biden and his administration is taking America in the direction of western Europe anyway.  This train has left the station and for the first as an American I am glad I am an old man.  I cannot imagine what kind of country American will be in 30 years.  It does not matter because I will not be around to see it.  

[sqwakvfr]

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said Saturday that Congress could reverse the 2017 GOP tax cuts, which overwhelmingly benefited the rich and large corporations, to finance the cancellation of all remaining student loan debt after President Joe Biden announced his more limited plan to wipe out $10,000 for most borrowers.

 

"Never forget: 83% of the Trump tax breaks are going to the top 1%."

 

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), signed into law by former President Donald Trump in 2017, is projected to cost around $1.9 trillion over a decade. Total U.S. student loan debt is currently around $1.75 trillion.

 

https://www.rawstory.com/aoc-student-debt/?traffic_source=Connatix

So the tax cuts did not yield any benefit at all to the US Economy?

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the tax cuts did not yield any benefit at all to the US Economy?

There was no change in economic trends after the cut. Well, actually, there was a dip in manufacturing output.

[placeholder]

30 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

It is called incentive.  Low tax countries create and encourage innovators.  When was the last time an innovative idea came out of France?  What motivates the likes of modern innovators?  Wealth or pay up to 70-90 % in taxes if one becomes successful and wealthy.  If the US goes in the same direction as most western European countries does anyone really believe the next Amazon, Google or even Tesla will come from within country?  

 

What is the income tax rates for those classified as wealthy in Singapore? I can guess it is not even close to western European Countries.  It does not matter what I or anyone believe is fair or not because Joe Biden and his administration is taking America in the direction of western Europe anyway.  This train has left the station and for the first as an American I am glad I am an old man.  I cannot imagine what kind of country American will be in 30 years.  It does not matter because I will not be around to see it.  

Actually, Switzerland and Sweden, with higher tax rates than the US are rated higher for innovation. The US is third. After that comes the UK which also imposes higher taxes. South Korea which imposes higher taxes on high earners than does the.US. comes after that. This is followed by Netherlands, Denmark, Singapore, Finland, and Germany. Out of those 5, only Singapore imposes lower taxes than does the U.S.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1102558/most-innovative-countries-gii-score/

 

Have you ever asked yourself where the middle and working classes are doing a lot better than in the United States? Or, to your way of thinking, is the only purpose of an economy to generate high GDP?

Edited August 29, 2022 by placeholder

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the tax cuts did not yield any benefit at all to the US Economy?

No, there was net damage. Much of that money went into stock buybacks and assets. The rest is is overseas bank accounts. As AOC said, 81% of that money went to the 1%. That didn't get spent at Walmart. Or anywhere else for that matter. That tax cut was highly inflationary because it stimulated asset demand so much, real estate especially.

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

So the tax cuts did not yield any benefit at all to the US Economy?

It mostly helped corporations and the investor class.  Corporations used the extra money for stock buy-backs, thereby juicing up the stock market artificially....for awhile. 

[candide]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

It is called incentive.  Low tax countries create and encourage innovators.  When was the last time an innovative idea came out of France?  What motivates the likes of modern innovators?  Wealth or pay up to 70-90 % in taxes if one becomes successful and wealthy.  If the US goes in the same direction as most western European countries does anyone really believe the next Amazon, Google or even Tesla will come from within country?  

 

What is the income tax rates for those classified as wealthy in Singapore? I can guess it is not even close to western European Countries.  It does not matter what I or anyone believe is fair or not because Joe Biden and his administration is taking America in the direction of western Europe anyway.  This train has left the station and for the first as an American I am glad I am an old man.  I cannot imagine what kind of country American will be in 30 years.  It does not matter because I will not be around to see it.  

On top of what other members have posted, due to size effect, the relevant level of comparison should be the EU.

https://sciencebusiness.net/news/eu-surpasses-us-innovation-league-table-uk-loses-leader-status-europe

[JackGats]

Overwhelmingly, another freebie for women at the expense of men.

[sqwakvfr]

14 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

It mostly helped corporations and the investor class.  Corporations used the extra money for stock buy-backs, thereby juicing up the stock market artificially....for awhile. 

I am in the investor class.  So my portfolio was good.  Now it is not good.  I also collect a pension based upon investment returns.  My pension funds portfolio is down 20% since Uncle Joe became President.  

[Berkshire]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I am in the investor class.  So my portfolio was good.  Now it is not good.  I also collect a pension based upon investment returns.  My pension funds portfolio is down 20% since Uncle Joe became President.  

I'm pretty sure your portfolio went down before Joe Biden became POTUS...due to COVID.  The market on March 2020 was much lower than it is now.  Who was the Prez?  At least be honest about it.

[sqwakvfr]

24 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

No, there was net damage. Much of that money went into stock buybacks and assets. The rest is is overseas bank accounts. As AOC said, 81% of that money went to the 1%. That didn't get spent at Walmart. Or anywhere else for that matter. That tax cut was highly inflationary because it stimulated asset demand so much, real estate especially.

Then what was inflation in 2019 and 2020?  Real Estate values going up does benefit some.  In 2022 US Real Estate values are falling.  Is this inflationary? Stock values are now also falling.  Is this inflationary? So the rise in the price of oil did not contribute to inflation in 2022?  Some US Cities now require a $15 dollar minimum wage.  Is this inflationary?  The US Prime rate has been raised by 1.5% in the last 3 months.  Is this inflationary?  

[sqwakvfr]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

I'm pretty sure your portfolio went down before Joe Biden became POTUS...due to COVID.  The market on March 2020 was much lower than it is now.  Who was the Prez?  At least be honest about it.

But has gone done worse since Joe.  It is not all Joe or Donald's fault.  But it has been awful in the last 6 months. Ok so 2020 was Covid? 2021 was Donald Trump and 2022 is ????  So we can blame it all on Donald Trump.  That settles it,  blame Donald Trump for everything that has gone wrong since Jan 2021.  No I did not vote for him, I do not own a red hat and I am not in the "Maga Cult".  

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by sqwakvfr

[ozimoron]

3 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

Then what was inflation in 2019 and 2020?  Real Estate values going up does benefit some.  In 2022 US Real Estate values are falling.  Is this inflationary? Stock values are now also falling.  Is this inflationary? So the rise in the price of oil did not contribute to inflation in 2022?  Some US Cities now require a $15 dollar minimum wage.  Is this inflationary?  The US Prime rate has been raised by 1.5% in the last 3 months.  Is this inflationary?  

The reason they're falling is because the stimulus has been pulled and interest rates have been pushed up.

[sqwakvfr]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

The reason they're falling is because the stimulus has been pulled and interest rates have been pushed up.

So when people sell stocks this has no effect on its share price?  Before interest rates were pushed up Jerome Powell I recall the Stock Market going down as well.  

[Berkshire]

6 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

But has gone done worse since Joe.  It is not all Joe or Donald's fault.  But it has been awful in the last 6 months. Ok so 2020 was Covid? 2021 was Donald Trump and 2022 is ????  So we can blame it all on Donald Trump.  That settles it,  blame Donald Trump for everything that has gone wrong since Jan 2021.  No I did not vote for him, I do not own a red hat and I am not in the "Maga Cult".  

 

 

I agree that Presidents have very little control over the stock market.  But you said "My pension funds portfolio is down 20% since Uncle Joe became President."  So why are you blaming Khun Joe?  Nevermind, doesn't matter.    

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, sqwakvfr said:

So when people sell stocks this has no effect on its share price?  Before interest rates were pushed up Jerome Powell I recall the Stock Market going down as well.  

That's because those who invest in the stock market are not stupid, they can see an interest rate rise hike months before it's implemented. Economists knew that inflation was rising at that has only one outcome for interest rates and economic stimulus.

[sqwakvfr]

13 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

That's because those who invest in the stock market are not stupid, they can see an interest rate rise hike months before it's implemented. Economists knew that inflation was rising at that has only one outcome for interest rates and economic stimulus.

 

Then I guess I am a stupid investor.  I did not see it coming. Because a year ago interest rates on safe investments(CD's and annuities etc) were very low.

Edited August 29, 2022 by sqwakvfr

[ozimoron]

Just now, sqwakvfr said:

 

Then I guess I am a stupid investor.  I did not see it coming. 

The S&P and bitcoin had risen and risen and risen to record levels without correction. Did you imagine that would go on forever?