THE WEEK THAT WAS Anyone for Venice? It’s that time when Thailand - Bangkok in particular - might disappear altogether

[Bkk Brian]

6 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

There were also no accurate measuring instruments before:

So are you saying that the past natural climate changes that have occurred cannot be authenticated?

 

Despite the use of isotopes, rocks, ice cores, tree rings, fossils, sea and lake sediment to name just a few proxy measuring methods

[roo860]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

The River Ping burst its banks in Chiang Mai around 2012 and much of the surrounding area of the city was under water, by about a meter and stretched all the way to the Loi Kroh boxing ring 

The indoor Market below road level was totally flooded.

[Stargeezr]

I enjoyed the news update Rooster. 

 Regarding Global warming, well with the last one of many many years ago, there were large

trees that grew in the arctic of Canada on Ellsmere Island.  The world warmed itself up for that last occasion.

  What if the world is warming itself up again? I have seen and read of news from the climate alarmists, and as some

posters said, their predictions have not came true.   I refuse to buy an Electric Vehicle, until it can go 1600 KMs

or 1000 miles in a day, when it is a hot Summer day or a cold -30C Winter day. For now, there is no EV that will

go even 600 KMs on a Hot or Cold day. We do have catalytic converters in our vehicles, and I would consider

buying a hybrid vehicle if the right Van model is manufactured. The effects of climate change are real, but does anyone in Thailand

pay a carbon tax like we do in Canada? How about the USA, Russia, China, M.E. South America, Africa or Australia? No.

  I doubt that China or India or even Russia will stop using coal to fire their Power stations, even though there are some

nuclear power plants in those countries as well. Canada has mostly LNG fired power stations, as well as hydro dams near the mountains,

and lots of subsidized Solar farms and Wind farms. Most of us Canadians are not fans of the carbon tax, as the cost of living 

has gone up, because we have to pay taxes on every liter of gasoline (benzene), diesel fuel, and likely on the LNG we use to

heat our homes. It does nothing for the carbon dioxide levels, but is making our lives more expensive to live.

  I cannot ride a bike in the Winter like you can Rooster as the ice and snow and cold temperatures keeps me in my warm

vehicle for at least 4 months of the year. Well rant is over.

[VocalNeal]

24 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

So are you saying that the past natural climate changes that have occurred cannot be authenticated?

 

Despite the use of isotopes, rocks, ice cores, tree rings, fossils, sea and lake sediment to name just a few proxy measuring methods

No. The climate is changing. What I am saying is that one probably cannot definitively say +/- 0.5 degree in , say, the 1600's or 1700's. Add to that. Who was taking said temperature readings???? I know the Royal Navy has been taking readings every watch for hundreds of years, all over the world. How accurate were their devices? Maybe just maybe there is an old 18th century thermometer in working order at Greenwich, that someone can test???? 

 

It looks like a nice graph but...

Edited September 4, 2022 by VocalNeal

[Bkk Brian]

4 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

No. The climate is changing. What I am saying is that one probably cannot definitively say +/- 0.5 degree in , say, the 1600's or 1700's. Add to that. Who was taking said temperature readings???? I know the Royal Navy has been taking readings every watch for hundreds of years, all over the world. How accurate were their devices? Maybe just maybe there is an old 18th century thermometer in working order at Greenwich, that someone can test???? 

 

It looks like a nice graph but...

I guess I would agree with that but with the start of the industrial revolution and accurate temperature measurements we can see it has risen well above that figure of 0.5% you mentioned already. That together with the CO2 increase in the same timescale

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/vital-signs/carbon-dioxide/

[MyFriend You]

21 hours ago, micmichd said:

Amsterdam has a very advanced machine-like pumping system, otherwise the city wouldn't exist. This system should be investigated and see if it could be implemented in Bangkok. 

If I remember right, about 25 years ago, the Folks in Netherlands offered such a device to Thailand and it was rejected.  Guess they decided they needed another hundred Sky Scrapers and City Shopping Malls rather than flood control, and filled in all the canals to make way for the buildings in the name of 'Progress'.

Peace

[MyFriend You]

22 hours ago, connda said:

Which is what happens when cities are built near, on, or below sea level. 

(This is not directed at you)   But Stupid is as Stupid does - some places were not meant to be built on........ on the Big Island of Hawaii a whole subdivision was overrun by lava a few years back, 60 some houses - no lava detected for a hundred years, then one day it decided to just pop up out of no where................Mount St Helens erupted, after a 300 year nap................that hs nothing to do with climate change - Thailand decided it needed a thousand buildings and shopping malls, re-directed and filled in all the Klongs to make room for them.  The klongs left are polluted - mainly because of garbage, but also because there is  no where for the water to go, it's natural flows were interrupted 50 years agp.

[KannikaP]

On 9/3/2022 at 8:35 AM, webfact said:

getting out his battered rackets and having a rubber.

I think it is a match in tennis, not a rubber

[Bkk Brian]

On 9/4/2022 at 2:22 PM, BritManToo said:

 

The most direct evidence comes from tiny bubbles of ancient air trapped in the vast ice sheets of Antarctica. By drilling for ice cores and analyzing the air bubbles, scientists have found that, at no point during at least the past 800,000 years have atmospheric CO2 levels been as high as they are now

https://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-humans-didnt-exist-15938

[BritManToo]

31 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

The most direct evidence comes from tiny bubbles of ancient air trapped in the vast ice sheets of Antarctica. By drilling for ice cores and analyzing the air bubbles, scientists have found that, at no point during at least the past 800,000 years have atmospheric CO2 levels been as high as they are now

https://www.climatecentral.org/news/the-last-time-co2-was-this-high-humans-didnt-exist-15938

I don't believe C02 levels are important to world climate (alarmist speculation).

C02 levels are important to world vegetation (simple biology).

 

If we reduced C02 levels (like you want) it'd probably cause mass starvation in the world.

Edited September 4, 2022 by BritManToo

[Lacessit]

On 9/4/2022 at 10:50 AM, proton said:

 

 Since the Industrial Revolution, carbon dioxide levels have increased from 280 ppm to 421 ppm currently. That's about a 50% increase, your "96% is natural" does not stand up.

The 280 ppm level has been around for about 10,000 years prior to the mid-18th century. Where else do you think the extra CO2 is coming from, if not from us?

[Photoguy21]

23 hours ago, micmichd said:

Amsterdam has a very advanced machine-like pumping system, otherwise the city wouldn't exist. This system should be investigated and see if it could be implemented in Bangkok. 

That would mean getting experts in to review, assess and advise and that would cost money, something that no one wants to pay for when the problem is not as serious and submarines and fighter jets.

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe C02 levels are important to world climate (alarmist speculation).

C02 levels are important to world vegetation (simple biology).

 

If we reduced C02 levels (like you want) it'd probably cause mass starvation in the world.

Ah, the plant food argument. I was wondering when that would come along.

The world's vegetation has done quite well for itself on 280 ppm of carbon dioxide for 10,000 years, what makes you think it will turn up its toes in the unlikely event we managed to get back to that level? AFAIK no-one is proposing an atmosphere with zero CO2.

[Doctor Tom]

Bangkok in particular - might disappear altogether

 

Can't say that would worry me too much 

[BostonRob2]

On 9/3/2022 at 1:55 PM, itsari said:

propensity?

Speak in a way most understand.

Otherwise I do not read further .

Krung Thep chorp nam thuam,

 

Thanks for reading further.

 

Rooster

[ArtVandelay]

Well . .if the climate deniers think the refugee situation is out of control now . . just wait until vast swaths in Northern India and Africa are too hot to even live in.   

They ain't seen nothin'; yet.  

[BostonRob2]

1 hour ago, KannikaP said:

I think it is a match in tennis, not a rubber

"In sports, a rubber is a series that consists of an odd number of matches where a majority of wins takes the series", online info.

 

Seems to apply to tennis too where there is an odd number of matches. The reason I used the term rubber rather than match is that it sounds more like a word the toffs would have a higher propensity to use (I mean "hi-so, him more like to say when play tennit").

 

Thanks for reading,

 

Rooster

 

Rooster.

[itsari]

8 minutes ago, BostonRob2 said:

Krung Thep chorp nam thuam,

 

Thanks for reading further.

 

Rooster

Sesquipedalian is all I can say to your way of writing.

I will not bother to read further.

[Bkk Brian]

52 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I don't believe C02 levels are important to world climate (alarmist speculation).

C02 levels are important to world vegetation (simple biology).

 

If we reduced C02 levels (like you want) it'd probably cause mass starvation in the world.

What you believe and what science states are two very different things

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, TunnelRat69 said:

If I remember right, about 25 years ago, the Folks in Netherlands offered such a device to Thailand and it was rejected.  Guess they decided they needed another hundred Sky Scrapers and City Shopping Malls rather than flood control, and filled in all the canals to make way for the buildings in the name of 'Progress'.

Peace

Thailand has an advanced pumping system in Bangkok. They have spent over 1.5 billion baht in the past ten years. They didn't reject the system you mentioned because they didn't like it or think it wouldn't work, that's not rational.

[BostonRob2]

20 hours ago, fobuff said:

hmmmm...  what is the  nickname of the new chief of police...

 

BIG  ???????

I don't know. Though I know where he goes shopping.

 

Big C.

 

Rooster

[BritManToo]

10 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

What you believe and what science states are two very different things

Climate alarmism is not science, it's religion.

You just need to believe and have faith.

 

Edited September 4, 2022 by BritManToo

[Bkk Brian]

3 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Climate alarmism is not science, it's religion.

You just need to believe and have faith.

 

Evidence provided by the scientific community does not matter to you? Try reading some of the links already provided or keep up the faith you have in your belief

 

 

[moogradod]

4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Climate alarmism is not science, it's religion.

You just need to believe and have faith.

 

To call this topic "alarmism" alone speaks volumes. Better start saving for a boat. If water rises it most probably does not wait some decades and then suddenly moves. It will be gradually - maybe with some spikes in between. This is what I believe ????

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Climate alarmism is not science, it's religion.

You just need to believe and have faith.

 

I get it. Climate deniers are rational people relying on facts and statistics against a tide of scientists who are all getting funding to spread fear of something that 1/ Isn't going to happen 2/ Is part of a natural cycle 3/ Will be beneficial as the extra CO2 is plant food.

Please explain to me how that is not a religion of its own.

[Sparktrader]

22 hours ago, Lacessit said:

What you say about ice is quite true. Unfortunately for your argument, most ice in Antarctica is land-based. The accepted calculation is if all the ice in Antarctica, Greenland etc. was to melt, sea levels would rise by 70 metres.

95% of scientists agree climate change and global warming are real. The 5% who don't are mostly linked to the fossil fuel industry, which has a vested interest in politicizing the issue with whatever venal politicians it can find. Which is probably the vast majority of them.

 

My standard approach with climate deniers is to ask them to explain the meaning of the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, which applies to climate change, which applies to global warming. 99% of the time, I get blank looks.

I would then ask them to explain what albedo and clathrates are, and how they could trigger a black swan event. So far, I haven't got one person who had the foggiest clue what I am talking about.

 

You could go away and Google all the terms I have used. However, knowing what they are and actually understanding what they mean are two different things.

 

Your post is a good example of a little knowledge being dangerous.

 

 

Explain why global temps in 2021 were cooler than 2016 while Chinese co2 went up a lot.

 

Use whatever theory you want.

 

So much for your law of thermodynamics.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sparktrader]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I get it. Climate deniers are rational people relying on facts and statistics against a tide of scientists who are all getting funding to spread fear of something that 1/ Isn't going to happen 2/ Is part of a natural cycle 3/ Will be beneficial as the extra CO2 is plant food.

Please explain to me how that is not a religion of its own.

Science is about facts not alarmism. Calling people deniers just proves you have no facts to present. No warming 6 years. Saying law this law that whilst no warming has occured shows your assumptions are inaccurate.

 

Point 2 - many natural climate cycles not just one.

 

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Explain why global temps in 2021 were cooler than 2016 while Chinese co2 went up a lot.

 

Use whatever theory you want.

 

So much for your law of thermodynamics.

 

 

 

 

 

My theory is that because there are more bigger boats in the sea and more people are swimming in the sea and there's more rubbish in the sea and many people urinate in the sea , this is causing the sea levels to rise . 

   Stop doing all the above and sea levels would drop 

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Explain why global temps in 2021 were cooler than 2016 while Chinese co2 went up a lot.

 

Use whatever theory you want.

 

So much for your law of thermodynamics.

 

Yes this will explain why:

 

"back-to-back La Niña events in the Pacific Ocean meant that 2021 was cooler than many recent record-breakers – such as 2016, where the world was almost a full degree (+0.99°C) hotter than last century’s average – it was still hotter than every year of the 20th Century."

 

"With the last nine years all appearing in the top ten hottest years ever recorded, we’ve put the last 143 years into context in this heatmap to show global temperature over time."

 

https://www.climatecouncil.org.au/resources/heat-map-clear-trend-global-temperature-change/

[Sparktrader]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

we’ve put the last 143 years in

The earth is 4bn years old