Supporting family after death

[uptome1946]

Am 76 years old and just found out I have prostate cancer.  My pensions will stop after my death but investments in the US are substantial.  I have no one really that I can trust to transfer money to Thailand and have spent hours online trying to find a way to set up an immediate fixed annuity for at least 10 years.  

 

If I transferred 10 million baht to Thailand I fear it would be spent in a year.  I have a 15 year old daughter attending a private school in Chiang Mai and when I last visited the school and offered to prepay her last two years of tuition I was told that there was no way I could do that.

 

I have a BKK account and inquired there about a plan to disburse money from my account to my wife's account and was told there was no way to do that.

 

I was told to hire a lawyer to set up a plan but I lack trust in the Thai legal system from experience in 20 years here.

 

I am currently in the US and I naively thought I could set up such a plan here through my credit union. Sending regular international wire transfers is not possible or so I was told.

 

Does anyone have advice from actual experience regarding a way to do this?

 

 

[Dan O]

Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust. You can issue instructions through that instrument. Also gain some tax protection for the funds.. You can also hire a law firm to oversee the trust including the distribution schedule and other special instructions or considerations you may want in place.There will be fees involved but its safe and you can rest easy knowing that it will be controlled and administered properly 

[dj230]

45 minutes ago, Dan O said:

Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust. You can issue instructions through that instrument. Also gain some tax protection for the funds.. You can also hire a law firm to oversee the trust including the distribution schedule and other special instructions or considerations you may want in place.There will be fees involved but its safe and you can rest easy knowing that it will be controlled and administered properly 

I wonder, let's say the law firm just steals the money, how would anyone know? If the person who set up the trust has passed away, no one finds out anyways, no? Just curious how they're held accountable that the money ends up where it's supposed to.

 

I guess if you pass away, you kind of have to just trust everything goes as planned, not like you can do anything once you're gone. 

 

To the OP, sorry to hear about your cancer, hopefully you are able to get treated somehow or have some sort of shot at getting rid of it. 

 

Edited September 11, 2022 by dj230

[Dan O]

11 minutes ago, dj230 said:

I wonder, let's say the law firm just steals the money, how would anyone know? If the person who set up the trust has passed away, no one finds out anyways, no? Just curious how they're held accountable that the money ends up where it's supposed to.

 

I guess if you pass away, you kind of have to just trust everything goes as planned, not like you can do anything once you're gone. 

 

To the OP, sorry to hear about your cancer, hopefully you are able to get treated somehow or have some sort of shot at getting rid of it. 

 

The OP says he's in the US and his funds are in the US so its not like doing this in Thailand, which I would discourage. Plenty of reputable law firms to choose from. If he gives his daughter a copy and explains the way the trust works, she could watch to make sure it happens as outlined or raise the red flag. Annual accountability can be established in the trust instructions. Can theft occur it's possible, but chances are low. He's asking for suggestions on how to solve the situation and I'm offering one. I know this can work as I was included in a family trust set up this way and all funds were paid out as instructed.

[KIngsofisaan]

3 hours ago, dj230 said:

I wonder, let's say the law firm just steals the money, how would anyone know? If the person who set up the trust has passed away, no one finds out anyways, no? Just curious how they're held accountable that the money ends up where it's supposed to.

 

I guess if you pass away, you kind of have to just trust everything goes as planned, not like you can do anything once you're gone. 

 

To the OP, sorry to hear about your cancer, hopefully you are able to get treated somehow or have some sort of shot at getting rid of it. 

 

The folks receiving the money would know.

[tandor]

10 hours ago, Dan O said:

Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust. You can issue instructions through that instrument. Also gain some tax protection for the funds.. You can also hire a law firm to oversee the trust including the distribution schedule and other special instructions or considerations you may want in place.There will be fees involved but its safe and you can rest easy knowing that it will be controlled and administered properly 

...good idea...however OP doesn't mention if he has any next of kin in the US who could do this privately by a transfer each month..this would/could save a bit..just a thought.

[mudcat]

As far as I know there is no provision for Trusts in Thailand.  There is a provision for minor children and disabled persons called a "Controller of Property" who can distribute funds after approval by a family court.  There is no provision that covers a competent adult.   Upon majority the person you are leaving the assets to has full control, but it may work for the last few years of school and the beginning of university if that is in the cards.  Do you have a person here who is both trustworthy and competent to deal with family court?

 

 

[Dan O]

30 minutes ago, mudcat said:

As far as I know there is no provision for Trusts in Thailand.  There is a provision for minor children and disabled persons called a "Controller of Property" who can distribute funds after approval by a family court.  There is no provision that covers a competent adult.   Upon majority the person you are leaving the assets to has full control, but it may work for the last few years of school and the beginning of university if that is in the cards.  Do you have a person here who is both trustworthy and competent to deal with family court?

 

 

OP isn't in thailand and his assets are in the US. .My suggestion is he set the trust up in the US as its allowed and much safer to be administered there rather than Thailand

 

1 hour ago, tandor said:

...good idea...however OP doesn't mention if he has any next of kin in the US who could do this privately by a transfer each month..this would/could save a bit..just a thought.

He did mention he has no one he can trust so I presume that means in either Thailand or the US..

[Dan O]

He would also avoid tax issues both in transferring his assets out of investments and in being within the trust prior to any distributions

[bronzedude]

Is there anyone in the US that you trust to disperse the money. A younger relative that you could make executor of your US estate or give power of attorney over your investments. I assume IRAs and such. Then instruct that person to disperse money to the family account in Thailand at the required intervals. Check with Charles Schwab.

[brewsterbudgen]

What does your US will say?  Just make your instructions clear for the Executors of your US will.  For Thailand, the Executors of your Thai will should also have clear instructions, with all the account details.

The Executor of my Thai will is a lawyer from the firm who drew up the will.

 

[mudcat]

Tax issues can be complicated if the assets are in a traditional IRA or 401K and are being left to a foreign national through a trust.

 

My wife is a US  citizen and my assets are in a Roth IRA with her as my sole  beneficiary, but should she pre-decease me getting anything at all from my estate to my stepson was really tricky so I left it to my executor to "gift" it to him.  A scholarship fund and one other charity are contingent beneficiaries so it is not a lot but enough to buy a new pickup.

 

[Surasak]

Dan O has suggested a Trust Fund and I would fully agree. A competent lawyer in the states dealing with trust funds will give all the advice required.

Setting up the account for the recipient also requires careful thought. Restricted access would not be easy, but a bank book only A/C would mean having to present the book at the counter to draw funds.

By-annual accountability is also a good suggestion from Dan O.

[scorecard]

12 hours ago, Dan O said:

Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust. You can issue instructions through that instrument. Also gain some tax protection for the funds.. You can also hire a law firm to oversee the trust including the distribution schedule and other special instructions or considerations you may want in place.There will be fees involved but its safe and you can rest easy knowing that it will be controlled and administered properly 

Can I humbly suggest you add some words to your above post to clarify 'where'.

 

E.g. FRom above:  "Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust....... do you mean in the US and what state or in Thailand?

 

Perhaps in other areas of your post also add some 'where' etc., details...

 

Good luck,

[inThailand]

Do you have a US Will? 

Use that executor to carry out your Thai wishes. Give a copy of your Will to the Thai benefactors so they know money is coming there way. Specify in your Will monthly or yearly payouts. I agree, giving them a lump sum will be misspent before your cold in the ground.

 

You are right not to trust the Thai legal system, Thai attorneys and Thai banks. 

 

[Dan O]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

Can I humbly suggest you add some words to your above post to clarify 'where'.

 

E.g. FRom above:  "Talk to a lawyer and set up a trust....... do you mean in the US and what state or in Thailand?

 

Perhaps in other areas of your post also add some 'where' etc., details...

 

Good luck,

Yes you are correct I should have been a little more specific in my first reply.  I was going off the OP's comments. 

 

Yes in the US not in Thailand 

[Dan O]

5 minutes ago, inThailand said:

Do you have a US Will? 

Use that executor to carry out your Thai wishes. Give a copy of your Will to the Thai benefactors so they know money is coming there way. Specify in your Will monthly or yearly payouts. I agree, giving them a lump sum will be misspent before your cold in the ground.

 

You are right not to trust the Thai legal system, Thai attorneys and Thai banks. 

 

A will could work but the OP says he has no one he can trust.

 

A Trust would be a better option tax wise and safer in the long run. 

[crazykopite]

This might sound crazy and I don’t even know if it’s possible make your daughter a joint account holder to your US bank accounts and approve her as a signatory to these accounts but set a limit on how much she is allowed to draw each month if this is not possible then setting up a trust is the only other way but it is expensive as there are ongoing fees throughout the lifetime of the trust . Unfortunately you cannot control what happens once you have departed this world you say your daughter is 15 maybe talk to her regarding the importance of money and how to invest it for the  future at her age I am sure she will understand . By the way I am in the same boat a couple of years younger than you and my estate will eventually go to my two grandchildren who are currently 17 and 15 they get an allowance from me every month and up to now I have never had any issues .

[ivor bigun]

so glad i will never have to worry about this ,our son runs a company ,my wifes family are not badly off and my wife has land and the offer of a job in the UK when i die .

[Tropposurfer]

Give Integrity legal a call. The principle Benjamin is a Yank so I'd say he's most familiar with international issues for Yanks in LOS. 

I have used him for wills, and checking house-build contracts etc and he was always solid with those.

[retiree]

14 hours ago, uptome1946 said:

find a way to set up an immediate fixed annuity for at least 10 years.  

I'll be in a similar position some day and have the same question.  I have always assumed I could purchase an immediate fixed annuity, e.g. 

https://www.annuity.org/annuities/beneficiaries/

If an annuity contract has a death-benefit provision, the owner can designate a beneficiary to inherit the remaining annuity payments after death. 

Any large broker or insurance company should have a product like this -- is there a reason it doesn't work?

-- Retiree

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by retiree

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Dan O said:

A will could work but the OP says he has no one he can trust.

 

A Trust would be a better option tax wise and safer in the long run. 

Given the whole situation, perhaps the OP (with all respect) needs to rethink who / what process he trusts the most and with some thought about ongoing checking.

 

Is there a family member in the US who could be trusted and prepared to do some quick occasional monitoring. In this scenario that person might be hesitant to get involved. Why? If it's discovered there's some 'leakage' of the funds then who does he/she turn to? 

[scorecard]

5 hours ago, tandor said:

...good idea...however OP doesn't mention if he has any next of kin in the US who could do this privately by a transfer each month..this would/could save a bit..just a thought.

Good idea. I have to be honest (just my opinion of course) I don't trust lawyers anywhere and in many countries they charge fees which are outrageous, often way beyond the level of effort required. 

[newnative]

     I agree with Dan O.  Set up a trust.  My family used Merrill Lynch to handle our family trust of my Dad's stock portfolio after his death.  I would check with several reputable firms, explain your situation, and see what they an come up with.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, bronzedude said:

or give power of attorney over your investments.

POAs cease on the death of the donor.

[oscarsmum]

What about contacting a fiduciary? I am not certain of their abilities as I live in Australia however we have the Public Trustee here and a friend is a fiduciary in California and told me her job is similar to our Public Trustee who can administer wills and bequests. Good luck to you.

[allanos]

Whilst it is prudent for the OP to put his affairs in order at the age of 76,

prostate cancer diagnosis is not a death sentence. Depending on the

forms of advanced treatments and therapies which are available and

which he might opt for, it is conceivable he will have a good many years

ahead of him in which to enjoy his life with his family.

 

 

[Letseng]

Prostate cancer is easily treatable. Husband had it dealt with.

About the same age as you are. Thailand has excellent doctors to help you. Bangkok Hospital, Bangkok, Samitivej. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, oscarsmum said:

What about contacting a fiduciary? I am not certain of their abilities as I live in Australia however we have the Public Trustee here and a friend is a fiduciary in California and told me her job is similar to our Public Trustee who can administer wills and bequests. Good luck to you.

Good idea, if this exists in the US, similar to the Australian Public Trustee.

[Lacessit]

Why worry about something that will take place after the OP is gone?

 

My Thai will leaves everything in Thailand to my Thai GF. If she's smart, it will be enough to give her a comfortable old age. If she is not, it will be gone in a couple of years.

Her problem, not mine. I have done my best to educate her on the virtues of planning for her future.