The last of the Mohikans...

[swissie]

Have lived in Thailand on and off since 1995. Regardless where I lived, I kept in contact with a number of Farangs and a number of Thai Lady friends. My last aquaintance has died 2 days ago. The last Mohikan. All others have died before. Remarkable: None of them lived past 74.

At first, I thought that I must spread "the kiss of death" somehow. But further investigation shows, that practically all of them died (prematurely) because the funds for proper medical treatement in Thailand were simply not at their disposal anymore. Note: Not anymore as opposed to "before". Refusing to leave their accumulated non-movable assets in Thailand unattended, in favor of possible free medical treatement in their home country. Excluding that, I am sure, most of them could still be alive today.

Not my day. It's like closing the last page of a well liked book, with no inclination to go back to page 1 ever again.

[1FinickyOne]

The Thai have free medical care, or virtually free, can be 30 baht... most of the people in our village live into their 80s and 90s.. 

 

My FIL had a quadruple bypass free w/2 months hospital stay.. and continues receiving free meds and monthly check-ups... 

 

sorry for your loss - but lack of medical care for a Thai is not the answer... maybe just luck of the draw. 

[CharlieH]

I too had a good friend pass a few days ago ????

 

He was the last of the farangs I knew around here too. Now I am the only one around this area.

He passed at 75, the others in there late 60's.

 

Nothing to do with funds or Med treatment, the "use by" date was reached and it was lights out.

 

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, swissie said:

My last aquaintance has died 2 days ago. The last Mohikan. All others have died before. Remarkable: None of them lived past 74.

Same for me, many pals died in their 60s or earlier, a couple made it to 70.

At 66, I'm last man standing.

 

Although medical care didn't play any part, died in their sleep or died of cancer. wealthy or poor, UK or Thailand, private or government, made no difference.

Edited September 19, 2022 by BritManToo

[ThailandRyan]

6 hours ago, 1FinickyOne said:

The Thai have free medical care, or virtually free, can be 30 baht... most of the people in our village live into their 80s and 90s.. 

 

My FIL had a quadruple bypass free w/2 months hospital stay.. and continues receiving free meds and monthly check-ups... 

 

sorry for your loss - but lack of medical care for a Thai is not the answer... maybe just luck of the draw. 

He is probably talking mainly about expats and not Thais...

 

My friends I first met here in Thailand are all alive still, the oldest 82 who lives in the north and his son at 60 now in Bangkok 

Edited September 19, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Kwasaki]

8 hours ago, swissie said:

Remarkable

Not really 74 is still consider young these days. 

 

In there mid 80's and 90's for Thais who don't Lao Khal themselves to death. 

 

Falangie die at all different age the last one died of cancer of the throat after being told to stop smoking years ago. 

 

When ya numbers up its up. 

[mania]

10 hours ago, swissie said:

My last acquaintance has died 2 days ago. The last Mohikan. All others have died before. Remarkable: None of them lived past 74....

practically all of them died (prematurely) because the funds for proper medical treatment in Thailand were simply not at their disposal anymore

Hi

Sorry to hear about the loss of your friends ????

 

But I would like to ask what was the condition of your average friend?

Meaning were they fit or not? Did they smoke? Drink regularly? Overweight?

 

I am asking because I have seen both sides even here in the West & medical care or not it did not matter for many with tons of medical treatment.

 

They took  their daily cocktail of pills to ease Blood pressure/Cholesterol/Heart rhythms etc etc Because they tended to think they could party as they always did, eat what they always ate regardless of what it was doing to them. Rather than make some changes that would have helped

 

My parents were the same way & died in their early 70's but their parents went into their late 80's easily as they did not have the same habits.

 

Not that it matters as I always say folks should live their life the way they want regardless, but since this thread is semi claiming it was Thailand or lack of medical care in Thailand that causes shorter life span I would like to know what type of person are we talking about?

Edited September 20, 2022 by mania

[steven100]

4 hours ago, CharlieH said:

I too had a good friend pass a few days ago ????

 

He was the last of the farangs I knew around here too. Now I am the only one around this area.

He passed at 75, the others in there late 60's.

 

Nothing to do with funds or Med treatment, the "use by" date was reached and it was lights out.

 

did he drink and was he a smoker  ....    I think going in the 60's is a bit early.    imo

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Not really 74 is still consider young these days. 

 

In there mid 80's and 90's for Thais who don't Lao Khal themselves to death. 

 

Falangie die at all different age the last one died of cancer of the throat after being told to stop smoking years ago. 

 

When ya numbers up its up. 

Exactly right. My number was up when I turned 70, and I'm just waiting for my body to realise it's time to depart.

I might feel differently if I had family that loved me or lotsacash, but just hanging around waiting is no way to live well.

It's not like I haven't got a hundred things to do, but they are just time fillers. My original plan was to live by a beach, read a lot and watch movies on DVD, but that didn't quite work out, as I was seduced by the machine and waste my days on the internet instead.

[CharlieH]

14 minutes ago, steven100 said:

did he drink and was he a smoker  ....    I think going in the 60's is a bit early.    imo

Most recent non smoker non drinker, kidney failure.

Previous did both  had an aortic anuerism.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 minutes ago, steven100 said:

did he drink and was he a smoker  ....    I think going in the 60's is a bit early.    imo

It is, but I had a very good friend that dropped dead in his 40s. Times up when it's up.

[steven100]

9 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

It is, but I had a very good friend that dropped dead in his 40s. Times up when it's up.

so true ...

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly right. My number was up when I turned 70, and I'm just waiting for my body to realise it's time to depart.

I might feel differently if I had family that loved me or lotsacash, but just hanging around waiting is no way to live well.

It's not like I haven't got a hundred things to do, but they are just time fillers. My original plan was to live by a beach, read a lot and watch movies on DVD, but that didn't quite work out, as I was seduced by the machine and waste my days on the internet instead.

Yeah time flies so I don't think about it, like my motorbike ride trips, my Archery and shooting, and get checked out by my doc every 4 months to keep an eye on the main organs, not so now necessarily the one eyed one headed monster. ????????

[GammaGlobulin]

James Fenimore Cooper knew nothing of wilderness lore.

 

Twain wrote about the idiocy of Fenimore Cooper's scribblings, and ridiculed him.

 

In fact, "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses" is an 1895 essay by Mark Twain, written as a satire and criticism of the writings of James Fenimore Cooper. It draws on examples from The Deerslayer and The Pathfinder from Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales."

 

Why resurrect the Last of the Mohicans at this late date, on ThaiVisa?

 

I refer you to Twain's great essay, if you are in the mood for a laugh.

 

There is good writing and bad writing, and ne'er the Twain shall meet.

 

[StreetCowboy]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:29 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

It is, but I had a very good friend that dropped dead in his 40s. Times up when it's up.

There are two views on that.

1. It is fate, and you go when it is time to go.

2. What you do determines when you die.
People with the latter view may be less likely to ride motor cycles through red lights, less likely to smoke or drink excessively - I don't have statistics on that.

[StreetCowboy]

21 hours ago, GammaGlobulin said:

James Fenimore Cooper knew nothing of wilderness lore.

 

Twain wrote about the idiocy of Fenimore Cooper's scribblings, and ridiculed him.

 

In fact, "Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses" is an 1895 essay by Mark Twain, written as a satire and criticism of the writings of James Fenimore Cooper. It draws on examples from The Deerslayer and The Pathfinder from Cooper's Leatherstocking Tales."

 

Why resurrect the Last of the Mohicans at this late date, on ThaiVisa?

 

I refer you to Twain's great essay, if you are in the mood for a laugh.

 

There is good writing and bad writing, and ne'er the Twain shall meet.

 

Twains.

We should not ridicule speech impediments but one of the fundamental principles is that there is an Up Line and a Down Line, and they are segregated, and any potential cross-over stops the opposite movement, and never the trains shall meet. Neither one of them (how can one train meet?) nor the twain.

[GammaGlobulin]

17 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Twains.

We should not ridicule speech impediments but one of the fundamental principles is that there is an Up Line and a Down Line, and they are segregated, and any potential cross-over stops the opposite movement, and never the trains shall meet. Neither one of them (how can one train meet?) nor the twain.

Mark Train, is it? 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

There are two views on that.

1. It is fate, and you go when it is time to go.

2. What you do determines when you die.
People with the latter view may be less likely to ride motor cycles through red lights, less likely to smoke or drink excessively - I don't have statistics on that.

He died of a heart attack, despite being as fit as anyone could expect to be. Can't beat fate IMO.

[BigStar]

On 9/20/2022 at 12:25 AM, swissie said:

But further investigation shows, that practically all of them died (prematurely) because the funds for proper medical treatement in Thailand were simply not at their disposal anymore. Note: Not anymore as opposed to "before". Refusing to leave their accumulated non-movable assets in Thailand unattended, in favor of possible free medical treatement in their home country. Excluding that, I am sure, most of them could still be alive today.

I doubt the thoroughness of your "investigation." The purpose of your post seems mainly to reassure yourself that moving back to Switzerland to take advantage of "free" medical care will ensure your greater longevity, despite a recent negative indicator to the contrary.

 

Other posters here have assured you that they know of plenty of people who've died in their 70s or younger despite their enjoying the best of medical care. I certainly do, including in Thailand. What they had in common was poor health caused by factors such as smoking, drinking, eating poorly, being overweight and never exercising.

 

Playing the lottery of docs, meds, and surgeries did keep most of them (not all) alive into their 60s--or even into their early 70s without the smoking and drinking. Meds may do that, or somewhat better.

 

At age 50, women who didn’t adopt any of the five healthy habits were estimated to live on average until they were 79 years old and men until they were 75.5 years. In contrast, women who adopted all five healthy lifestyle habits lived 93.1 years and men lived 87.6 years.

 

Independently, each of the five healthy lifestyle factors significantly lowered the risk of total death, death from cancer, and death from heart disease.

     --Healthy habits can lengthen life

 

Problem is that docs and meds don't cure but merely treat the symptoms of the conditions arising from an unhealthy lifestyle. You know, the increased blood pressure, high blood sugar, excess body fat around the waist, abnormal cholesterol or triglyceride levels, frailty, gout, etc.

 

ANF Poster Longevity Science, ever mindful to protect complacency, defends the common view that these suddenly appear out of nowhere owing to the malign operation of Genes or Fate. What to do? Docs and meds.???? 

 

Coincidentally, the Swiss guy I knew living in my building in Pattaya kept his weight down, exercised regularly at local gyms, and lived to about 95. Misery in a bedsit by the telly forecast by our Life Coaches? Hardly. He lived in his nice condo with a classy, very attractive Thai lady in her late 30s, his caretaker and lover until prostate cancer finally got him. I hope he left her well off; I'm sure he did, good man.

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by BigStar

[mania]

12 hours ago, BigStar said:

Problem is that docs and meds don't cure but merely treat the symptoms of the conditions arising from an unhealthy lifestyle. You know, the increased blood pressure, high blood sugar, excess body fat around the waist, abnormal cholesterol or triglyceride levels, frailty, gout, etc.

So true & sadly these days many people go to many "so called" specialists. These specialist seem as you said to only ever treat symptoms. It is as if they are all getting a commission on how many scripts they write? Also the days of having a good general doc watch over your total health are gone. You had better always do this yourself & double check if you take any scripts, do they have bad interactions with other scripts you take? I saw this with my parents

 

I take nothing & in the past if I started to have say high blood pressure I looked into my diet made changes & now have great BP averages 115/70

Same for cholesterol changes saw improvements

 

Yet when I first showed high BP the doctor said Oh need to get you kn BP meds pronto

 

So as you say they never say Oh your BP is high what do you eat/do?

 

These days I always say our first line of defense is stay out of the whole medical system. Take care of ourselves as best we can. Check things ourselves & try our best to fix problems as they arise. Of course there will always be a need for medical services but not every little thing/symptom needs a drug to fix

 

 

[BigStar]

7 hours ago, mania said:

So true & sadly these days many people go to many "so called" specialists. These specialist seem as you said to only ever treat symptoms. It is as if they are all getting a commission on how many scripts they write? Also the days of having a good general doc watch over your total health are gone. You had better always do this yourself & double check if you take any scripts, do they have bad interactions with other scripts you take? I saw this with my parents

 

I take nothing & in the past if I started to have say high blood pressure I looked into my diet made changes & now have great BP averages 115/70

Same for cholesterol changes saw improvements

 

Yet when I first showed high BP the doctor said Oh need to get you kn BP meds pronto

 

So as you say they never say Oh your BP is high what do you eat/do?

 

These days I always say our first line of defense is stay out of the whole medical system. Take care of ourselves as best we can. Check things ourselves & try our best to fix problems as they arise. Of course there will always be a need for medical services but not every little thing/symptom needs a drug to fix

 

 

???? Spot on. Prevention + address the causes = avoid the need for docs and all those meds in the first place. Stay healthy, stay mobile, look and feel younger than your years. Never too late to start, but the earlier the better. It's a lot harder to start than maintain, BTW.

 

Sometimes posters will assert "I eat a healthy diet" or "I exercise plenty in my garden," but then it turns out they actually have underlying preventable conditions for which they're poppin' pills. In fact, diet's not healthy as it needs to be, amount and type of exercise insufficient. Some important numbers needed (undistorted by meds):

 

 

Parenthetically, I wouldn't expect much education and encouragement coming from the new UK health minister, Thérèse Coffey. More of the same, Big Pharma in the lead:

 

 
 

Edited September 25, 2022 by BigStar

[StreetCowboy]

On 9/24/2022 at 5:57 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

He died of a heart attack, despite being as fit as anyone could expect to be. Can't beat fate IMO.

My buddy and I were discussing this very subject this afternoon, while undoing any health benefits we may have gained from our cycling.  Would you rather be fit, or healthy? There are plenty of tales of athletes passing away on the sporting field, and there is no doubt that they are fitter than a butcher's dog, but my objective is to stay healthy until I die. Few amongst us want to live until we wish we were dead, and fewer still till our families wished we were dead.  Now that my children are grown, I would rather die too soon than too late. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/25/2022 at 10:10 AM, mania said:

So true & sadly these days many people go to many "so called" specialists. These specialist seem as you said to only ever treat symptoms.

Not always true. When I acquired pre diabetes the GP referred me to a specialist nurse that sent me to a couple of free courses on eating healthy, and exercise ( I do loads of physical work, so no needs for gyms or such, but I needed to stop eating sugar. After doing so I lost over 10 kg and a few centimeters off the waist in a year ).

I learned a lot from the eating healthy course, such as certain foods like white bread, pasta etc are converted to sugars after consumption, so not just sugar in sweets and desserts that has to be eliminated. Makes for a boring diet, but better than losing a leg to diabetes like my mother did.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, BigStar said:

Parenthetically, I wouldn't expect much education and encouragement coming from the new UK health minister, Thérèse Coffey. More of the same, Big Pharma in the lead:

LOL.

I'm constantly astonished by obese nurses. I don't know how they can tell patients how to eat healthy and exercise when they are a walking advertisement for lard and exercise avoidance.

While I don't frequent hospitals as much as I did when working in them, nurses are often see in tv news items.

[BigStar]

18 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

My buddy and I were discussing this very subject this afternoon, while undoing any health benefits we may have gained from our cycling.  Would you rather be fit, or healthy?

Rather puts the lie to the old saying, "Two heads are better than one." So much simplistic binary thinking. Answer: both, taking advantage of the synergism of diet and exercise.

 

18 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

There are plenty of tales of athletes passing away on the sporting field, and there is no doubt that they are fitter than a butcher's dog, but my objective is to stay healthy until I die.

But you're no athlete and never will be.

 

Yeah, we're always hearing examples quoted of athletes, bodybuilders, and Olympians that haven't the slightest relevance here. Professional or extreme sports involve higher risks, obviously. Their purpose isn't fitness per se.

 

Some years ago, a poster here determined that instead of giving up his beloved pasta to lose weight, he'd become an ultramarathoner. He began seriously training and posted a few glowing progress reports. But only for a time, before he, ah, disappeared. Maybe a man's reach shouldn't exceed his grasp after all.  

 

Now exercise might mitigate the effects of some congenital or pre-existing conditions, or it might exacerbate them, sometimes fatally, as it did with Jim Fixx, previously overweight and a heavy smoker. He'd postponed checkups and ignored warning signs. 

 

But Jim Fixx (or others) might have died prematurely anyway. How would you know that his athleticism still didn't prolong his life beyond what it would have been? Well, you dunno that. 'Course, he did die doing what he loved. Our peanut gallery certainly approves of that, except they'd wish it had been during a bonk.

 

It's here that comprehensive health checkups become useful. Intelligent advice for the unfit to exercise is always prefaced with "first, get clearance from your doctor."

 

BTW, this argument is one of the typical findings of ANF Poster Longevity Science always presented.

 

4. The Guys

 

I know some guys who seemed healthy but have already died.

 

We have no idea how healthy The Guys really were. They weren't overweight or by much, certainly not relative to you, LOL. We didn't see the medical history or the blood reports or the scans; many didn't even have the scans that would reveal preventable issues.

 

The reverse is

 

3.   The Relative

 

A relative of mine did nothing special and lived to 95. I probably will too.

 

No, you won't.

 

Scientists reported on Tuesday that genes accounted for well under 7 percent of people’s life span, versus the 20 to 30 percent of most previous estimates.
    -- https://www.statnews.com/2018/11/06/life-span-genes-ancestry-database/

 

 

18 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

Few amongst us want to live until we wish we were dead, and fewer still till our families wished we were dead.  Now that my children are grown, I would rather die too soon than too late. 

You've arrived at one of the fundamental principles of ANF Poster Longevity Science, devoted to finding justifications to avoid dieting and exercise in favor of pursuing docs and meds--though the latter consequence is, for some reason, always ignored: indeed, posters, such as the OP himself, generally refuse to reveal the list of meds they're taking. In the minds of our Researchers, they're avoiding life-draining Stress by doing nothing.???? Seriously.

 

But while you're in good company here (the applause is deafening), you've missed the point. The point is to prolong the period in which you don't wish you were dead (that is, fighting with debilitating chronic diseases, frailty, and cognitive decline) while you postpone and shorten the period in which you do.

 

Ironically, our Longevity Researches are actually increasing the probability of an earlier beginning to that miserable period of sitting in the bedsit in front of the telly. And, as well, the probability it will extend over a longer percentage of their lifetimes. Rather like this:

 

 

 

If interested, you can google around and read up more on compression of morbidity. We do have a number of Believers in the convenience of Genetics Voodoo here, however. To avoid Stress, they'll discount the probabilities based on scientific evidence. So you might just keep it to yourself.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by BigStar

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, BigStar said:

But while you're in good company here (the applause is deafening), you've missed the point. The point is to prolong the period in which you don't wish you were dead (that is, fighting with debilitating chronic diseases, frailty, and cognitive decline) while you postpone and shorten the period in which you do.

and if one has already reached the point at which one wishes to depart, but is reluctant to take the ultimate step to do so?

If I get to that point I fully intend to give up the sensible diet and exercise of any sort. I shall splurge on an all sugar diet and hopefully fornicate my life away, and not regret a minute of it.

Living sensibly and well may be fine for those that have something to live for, but it is just boring and pointless for those just filling in the gap with meaningless inanity.

[mania]

On 9/25/2022 at 11:32 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Not always true. When I acquired pre diabetes the GP referred me to a specialist nurse that sent me to a couple of free courses on eating healthy, and exercise

I learned a lot from the eating healthy course, such as certain foods like white bread, pasta etc are converted to sugars after consumption, so not just sugar in sweets and desserts that has to be eliminated. Makes for a boring diet, but better than losing a leg to diabetes like my mother did.

Yes for sure there are some good ones out there but, Again why did you only find one after being

pre diabetic

What I am saying is sadly our systems don't do enough up front to educate & of course free will being free many folks don't ever try to improve themselves till it is nearly too late

 

Which is why I said

Quote

These days I always say our first line of defense is stay out of the whole medical system.

Take care of ourselves as best we can.

Check things ourselves & try our best to fix problems as they arise

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by mania

[BigStar]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and if one has already reached the point at which one wishes to depart, but is reluctant to take the ultimate step to do so?

If I get to that point I fully intend to give up the sensible diet and exercise of any sort. I shall splurge on an all sugar diet and hopefully fornicate my life away, and not regret a minute of it.

Living sensibly and well may be fine for those that have something to live for, but it is just boring and pointless for those just filling in the gap with meaningless inanity.

We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.

     --Viktor Frankl

 

Happily, mental illness is covered by the findings of ANFP Longevity Science.

 

10. What, me worry? III: The French Salute

 

Woe is me; g'bye cruel world.

 

Bosses shat on me; ex-wife shat on me; pretty girls ignore me. That's IT; I'm totally bug.gered! I can't exercise, read Thoreau, garden, find hobbies, join a support group, volunteer, take up yoga, join an exercise class, talk to a therapist, enjoy local scenery, play video games, find any friends, learn any new skills, study Marcus Aurelius and Seneca, get into art appreciation, go around doing good deeds, or write anything but cynical and solipsistic posts on ANF. Which don’t help neither.

 

All I am now is few old taste buds and a daily bowel movement. I'm even helpless when it comes to following any delicious low carb recipes or taking pleasant walks.

 

So, ain't gon' do a d.a.mn thing for myself. I'm just gon' sit here in my same old bathwater and cry until I reach that Pies and Pastry Shop In The Sky. Or, that Heavenly Pattaya Beer Bar, where await music, balloons, colored lights, a cold beer Chang, and lovely smiling  birds, not to mention a cheerful crowd of hail-fellow-well-met farang who'd earlier also met their fates in Pattaya—from heart attacks, drug overdoses, motorbike accidents, and balcony jumps.

 

Yet . . .

Sixty-five to 79 is the happiest age group for adults, according to Office for National Statistics research.

 

The survey of more than 300,000 adults across the UK found life satisfaction, happiness and feeling life was worthwhile all peaked in that age bracket, but declined in the over-80s. . . . The over-90 age group reported by far the lowest levels of feeling their life was worthwhile, even though their reported levels of happiness and life satisfaction were comparable to those in their 20s and 30s.
    --https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-35471624

 

What makes seniors happy? Health diet and exercise are two important factors. WOT? You seem to have the cart before the horse. 

 

. . . happy seniors had less trouble getting up, dressing, or taking a shower, as opposed to unhappy seniors who were twice as likely to develop diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and strokes.

 

More: The Way of Living: Being Happy and Healthy at an Old Age

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by BigStar

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, BigStar said:

Woe is me; g'bye cruel world.

Tell that to half the world's population that live <deleted> lives.

However, it seems to me that those with the least to be happy about are the happiest humans, given food and somewhere to live.

Perhaps the more we have the more unhappy we become. I was happy when I was a child and owned nothing, and happiest when I lived and worked in Antarctica and owned nothing beyond my underpants, as everything was provided ( even the toothpaste ). It may be coincidental, but when there I felt more worthwhile than anywhere else in my entire life. I had a purpose in life that only I could fulfill.

 

Perhaps you missed it, but my complaint is of having no purpose in life beyond merely existing, and no, I can't read Thoreau, garden, find hobbies, join a support group, volunteer, take up yoga, join an exercise class, talk to a therapist, enjoy local scenery, play video games, find any friends, learn any new skills, study Marcus Aurelius and Seneca, get into art appreciation, or go around doing good deeds.

 

While I have other things to do, writing cynical and solipsistic posts on ANF does take my mind off things, which does help get through the day.

If I lived in a country that allowed recreational use of MJ I'd be permanently stoned, but that happy state does not exist at present.

 

Have a nice day.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, mania said:

What I am saying is sadly our systems don't do enough up front to educate & of course free will being free many folks don't ever try to improve themselves till it is nearly too late

While I agree entirely that not enough is done before things get bad, that is the human condition. We procrastinate till we can't.

 

However, if I could go back in time and start over, I'd eat even more sugar till I couldn't. One of the great pleasures of my life has been the consumption of sugar in all it's various forms.

Saudis regard sugar as a gift from God, which is why they consumed so much of it, and while I don't thank God per se for it, I was grateful that it existed.

 

So, it ended when I became pre diabetic, but then life sucks anyway, and it's not as though I'm a child on insulin with a lifetime of it to come. Small mercies perhaps.