Bank of England raises rates to 2.25%, despite likely recession

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6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The UK doesn't grow all it's own food due to the greed of the corporations.

Everything could be home grown, but you can make bigger profits from importing from cheaper countries.

 

Same as corporate outsourcing to 3rd world call centres.

If the service is provided in the UK, it should be provided by UK citizens.

 

Same as industry,

Why manufacture in the UK, when it's cheaper to manufacture in the 3rd world.

 

The answer is always corporate greed.

And allowing corporate greed will destroy the world.

According to this expert, the last time the UK fed itself was probably in the early 19th century.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/dec/03/could-britain-feed-itself-we-ask-the-expert

And the diet would be very dull.

Although given the pace of global warming maybe in 20 years there could be banana plantations in Devonshire.

[RayC]

5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Answer,

Stop all imports and outsourcing workers.

Grow all food eaten in the UK be produced/grown in the UK.

Make everything used in the UK to be made in the UK.

Make all services used in the UK, be provided by UK citizens.

Don't give away money, make welfare recipients work for their food and housing. 

Stop all foreign aid, spend UK money on projects in the UK.

Make all companies operating in the UK pay tax in the UK.

They tried something similar in Cambodia in the '70s: It didn't go well.

 

They are trying something similar in North Korea now (although I believe that there are some Chinese imports): It's not going well.

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16 hours ago, nigelforbes said:

 

 

The only issue in question seems to be, who should receive those tax cuts. Should it be the wealth and job creators, the people who create jobs and companies, or, the people on the bottom end who you say can't afford to eat because of inflation etc. Hmmm, tricky. From a humanitarian perspective you'd chose the latter, I certainly would. But from an economic recovery position of government I might chose the former, because I think that has a better chance of success and avoid me having to do exactly the same thing over again, in six months time. 

Because in the absence of demand the wealthy are going to invest and create businesses. What are they? Beavers? Time and time again supply side economics has failed. Brush up on history.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The answer is always corporate greed.

And allowing corporate greed will destroy the world.

IMO the world has already been destroyed by greed ( corporate and personal ), but we just don't know it yet. The time is coming when the piper has to be paid and the cupboard will be bare. Lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth will eventuate. I hope I've departed when the  .

[nigelforbes]

Things just got more interesting, the IMF (highly unusually) waded into the fight and was publicly critical of governments new economic measures. Moody's followed up by saying the measures would be credit negative for the UK...ouch. 

 

Do nothing and the UK credit rating falls and borrowing becomes even more expensive. Reverse the cut to the top rate of tax and it will be seen as backtracking by a new government as it tried to execute its first economic policy. My guess is the government will ignore the IMF and hope the new fiscal measures bring some early wins. No pain, no gain as they say. But exactly what the BOE can or will do remains a mystery.....double ouch.

 

Personally, I think a part of the solution will come from the US Fed., USD is too strong and is having a damaging impact on countries/economies globally, I would expect them to put a lid on things soon which will help Sterling.

[James105]

2 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Things just got more interesting, the IMF (highly unusually) waded into the fight and was publicly critical of governments new economic measures. Moody's followed up by saying the measures would be credit negative for the UK...ouch. 

 

Do nothing and the UK credit rating falls and borrowing becomes even more expensive. Reverse the cut to the top rate of tax and it will be seen as backtracking by a new government as it tried to execute its first economic policy. My guess is the government will ignore the IMF and hope the new fiscal measures bring some early wins. No pain, no gain as they say. But exactly what the BOE can or will do remains a mystery.....double ouch.

 

Personally, I think a part of the solution will come from the US Fed., USD is too strong and is having a damaging impact on countries/economies globally, I would expect them to put a lid on things soon which will help Sterling.

Shame the IMF didn't get involved a bit earlier really when countries were destroying their economies via unnecessary and wholly ineffective lockdowns.   Getting involved now that one of these countries is doing something to try and fix this huge mistake is a bit like locking the stable door after the horse bolted about 2.5 years ago.   

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, RayC said:

They tried something similar in Cambodia in the '70s: It didn't go well.

 

They are trying something similar in North Korea now (although I believe that there are some Chinese imports): It's not going well.

Britain used to make everything and ruled a large part of the world. Perhaps such doesn't make the "right" people rich enough though. More profit in exploiting cheap labour the other side of the planet.

[nigelforbes]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

Shame the IMF didn't get involved a bit earlier really when countries were destroying their economies via unnecessary and wholly ineffective lockdowns.   Getting involved now that one of these countries is doing something to try and fix this huge mistake is a bit like locking the stable door after the horse bolted about 2.5 years ago.   

I personally don't think the IMF should have a voice in how a global pandemic should be managed and controlled, just like I don't think the WHO should have a voice in how countries should manage their respective economies.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/27/2022 at 12:29 PM, nigelforbes said:

Should it be the wealth and job creators, the people who create jobs and companies, or, the people on the bottom end who you say can't afford to eat because of inflation etc. Hmmm, tricky.

We are in the poo in the first place because "those wealth creators" chose wealth over patriotism and removed jobs from western people and gave them to exploited labour in foreign lands.

I'd make it difficult ( hopefully impossible ) for them to move wealth out of their country and if they wouldn't make stuff in their own country tax them till they squealed and create public owned companies that did make stuff with the money.

I have zero sympathy for the rich.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I personally don't think the IMF should have a voice in how a global pandemic should be managed and controlled, just like I don't think the WHO should have a voice in how countries should manage their respective economies.

Lockdowns caused economic disaster. IMO such is entirely within their remit.

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Things just got more interesting, the IMF (highly unusually) waded into the fight and was publicly critical of governments new economic measures. Moody's followed up by saying the measures would be credit negative for the UK...ouch. 

 

Do nothing and the UK credit rating falls and borrowing becomes even more expensive. Reverse the cut to the top rate of tax and it will be seen as backtracking by a new government as it tried to execute its first economic policy. My guess is the government will ignore the IMF and hope the new fiscal measures bring some early wins. No pain, no gain as they say. But exactly what the BOE can or will do remains a mystery.....double ouch.

 

Personally, I think a part of the solution will come from the US Fed., USD is too strong and is having a damaging impact on countries/economies globally, I would expect them to put a lid on things soon which will help Sterling.

Take a look at the sterling since we2. There has been a steady decline compared to currencies like us, guilder and dm.

Worldwide influence is waning and so is sterling.

[Chomper Higgot]

34 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

Things just got more interesting, the IMF (highly unusually) waded into the fight and was publicly critical of governments new economic measures. Moody's followed up by saying the measures would be credit negative for the UK...ouch. 

 

Do nothing and the UK credit rating falls and borrowing becomes even more expensive. Reverse the cut to the top rate of tax and it will be seen as backtracking by a new government as it tried to execute its first economic policy. My guess is the government will ignore the IMF and hope the new fiscal measures bring some early wins. No pain, no gain as they say. But exactly what the BOE can or will do remains a mystery.....double ouch.

 

Personally, I think a part of the solution will come from the US Fed., USD is too strong and is having a damaging impact on countries/economies globally, I would expect them to put a lid on things soon which will help Sterling.

The Government has a couple of more pressing hurdles to deal with.

 

Very many Tory MPs are not supportive of unfounded tax cuts for the already wealthy, Labour certainly aren’t. 
 

The PM does not have strong support across her own MP’s and has gone out of her way to antagonize those that did not support her candidacy.

 

So the first hurdle is will Tory MP’s support a Labour challenge to items in the finance bill?

 

The second hurdle is, the PM is enacting policies which were not in the Tory manifesto at the last election, this opens the door for legitimate challenges in the Lords.

 

It is also reported that Tory MPs have already submitted ‘no confidence’ letters to the 1922 committee.

 

Truss is as big a mess as predicted.

 

Pandering to the ERG and gift to the opposition.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Take a look at the sterling since we2. There has been a steady decline compared to currencies like us, guilder and dm.

Worldwide influence is waning and so is sterling.

Should that not be "has waned", not "is waning"? IMO that ship sailed when the UK backed down to the US over Suez.

[Chomper Higgot]

45 minutes ago, James105 said:

Shame the IMF didn't get involved a bit earlier really when countries were destroying their economies via unnecessary and wholly ineffective lockdowns.   Getting involved now that one of these countries is doing something to try and fix this huge mistake is a bit like locking the stable door after the horse bolted about 2.5 years ago.   

Give it up already, you had enough chances in the COVID threads.
 

The lockdowns did what they were designed to do, protected health services against collapse while saving lives.

 

Let’s get back on topic.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

39 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Britain used to make everything and ruled a large part of the world. Perhaps such doesn't make the "right" people rich enough though. More profit in exploiting cheap labour the other side of the planet.

Make two lists.

 

1. All the things that we use daily that didn’t even exist 50 years ago.

 

2. All the countries Britain no longer gets to plunder.

 

 

[James105]

37 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

I personally don't think the IMF should have a voice in how a global pandemic should be managed and controlled, just like I don't think the WHO should have a voice in how countries should manage their respective economies.

Health is directly related to a countries economy, hence the reason that the poorer a country is the lower the life expectancy so the IMF should of course be involved.  

 

The economic problems that are being faced today are a direct consequence of just focusing on just the health aspects of covid without considering the economic impact of these policies.  There was no balance.   Sensible folks predicted that an increase in poverty around the world would send a lot more people into an early grave than covid could ever hope to achieve.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, James105 said:

Health is directly related to a countries economy, hence the reason that the poorer a country is the lower the life expectancy so the IMF should of course be involved.  

 

The economic problems that are being faced today are a direct consequence of just focusing on just the health aspects of covid without considering the economic impact of these policies.  There was no balance.   Sensible folks predicted that an increase in poverty around the world would send a lot more people into an early grave than covid could ever hope to achieve.

More revisionism.

 

[James105]

Just now, Chomper Higgot said:

More revisionism.

 

So you disagree that health is not related to a countries wealth and the lower life expectancy in poorer countries is what... coincidental?   What part of what I said is revisionism?   

[Chomper Higgot]

The UK economy is suffering from:

 

Inflation, already out of control before Russia invaded Ukraine.

Low productivity, a decades long problem.

 

Low growth, heading into recession, twelve years of mismanagement.

 

Mass poverty, after decades of decline in living standards of ordinary people millions have got to the point where they can’t afford to eat regularly meals.

 

Restricted market access - oops.

 

These are all problems that have been built up over years and decades.

 

Over forty years of neoliberalism and the failed dogma of ‘trickle down economics’ has stripped wealth from the working and middle classes while handing it to the hyper wealthy.

 

Public services stripped out and privatized, the NHS in crisis, the Government promising ‘two weeks to see a Doctor’ (it was 2 days under the last Labour Government).

And what is this idiot PM promising?

 

More of the neoliberal ‘trickle down economics’ that have driven millions into poverty.

 

 

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

8 minutes ago, James105 said:

So you disagree that health is not related to a countries wealth and the lower life expectancy in poorer countries is what... coincidental?   What part of what I said is revisionism?   

I don’t agree with your myopic views on the Pandemic response and your revisionism that comes with it.

[stevenl]

50 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Should that not be "has waned", not "is waning"? IMO that ship sailed when the UK backed down to the US over Suez.

Has waned and keeps waning.

[JonnyF]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Give it up already, you had enough chances in the COVID threads.
 

The lockdowns did what they were designed to do, protected health services against collapse while saving lives.

 

Let’s get back on topic.

 

It's ridiculous to suggest that the current economic crisis and the Covid lockdowns are not intrinsically linked. So it's very much ON topic.

 

With lockdown induced economic problems comes reduced health services. 

 

The Tories went too far with the lockdowns under immense pressure from the opposition and SAGE. I can only be thankful that Labour were not in power during the Covid crisis since they were constantly calling for even tighter lockdown rules. The UK population would probably still be locked in their homes now. The same left wing that were calling for tighter measures are now complaining about the economic meltdown caused by the lockdowns.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 hours ago, JonnyF said:

It's ridiculous to suggest that the current economic crisis and the Covid lockdowns are not intrinsically linked. So it's very much ON topic.

 

With lockdown induced economic problems comes reduced health services. 

 

The Tories went too far with the lockdowns under immense pressure from the opposition and SAGE. I can only be thankful that Labour were not in power during the Covid crisis since they were constantly calling for even tighter lockdown rules. The UK population would probably still be locked in their homes now. The same left wing that were calling for tighter measures are now complaining about the economic meltdown caused by the lockdowns.

 

I knew it would be Labour’s fault.

 

How Labour managed to twist the arm of a Government with an 80 seat majority is a mystery only you can explain.

[RayC]

17 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I knew it would be Labour’s fault.

 

How Labour managed to twist the arm of a Government with an 80 seat majority is a mystery only you can explain.

Coming shortly: Covid was manufactured in, and leaked from, an EU funded laboratory.

[Hi from France]

Uk currency is the result of what the UK economy has turned into : an emerging market. 

 

 

Quote

For just a minute, imagine a country that has been buffeted for years by political instability. It has seen four prime ministers in just six years and three general elections over the past seven. This country also held a referendum on its relations with its neighbors, and voted to leave its main trading bloc, leading to a collapse in its trade volumes and stalling growth.

 

While this country calls itself a democracy, its new prime minister was chosen by members of an elite club comprising just 0.2 percent of the actual electorate. And now, this prime minister — who hasn’t even won a popular mandate to rule — has launched a populist pro-growth agenda: Taxes on the top 5 percent are to be cut in hopes of kick-starting growth and creating a trickle-down feel-good factor.

 

Welcome to today’s Britain, a mature G7 country, where it all sounds very emerging market.

 

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/britain-emerging-market-crisis-gdp-growth-economic-policy/

 

 

Quote

All of the above sounds like a classic emerging market (EM) crisis country. And as an EM economist for 35 years, if you presented me with the above fundamentals, the last thing I would now recommend is a program of unfunded tax cuts.

 

Sri Lanka tried to do just that between 2019 and 2022, and it ended up in currency collapse and default.

 

[JonnyF]

31 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I knew it would be Labour’s fault.

 

How Labour managed to twist the arm of a Government with an 80 seat majority is a mystery only you can explain.

Another strawman. You really should start addressing points I actually make. Rather than creating and then attacking positions I do not hold.

 

Instead of opposing the government by objecting to such strict lockdowns, Labour instead opted for oneupmanship and told them there should be even stricter, harsher lockdowns, sooner. They are as useless in opposition as they would have been in government. Fortunately they are too clueless to win elections so we didn't have to suffer even stricter lockdowns and even more economic damage.

 

If you don't believe me, maybe a look at your favourite Communist tabloid will help?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/03/keir-starmer-calls-for-immediate-lockdown-in-england-as-covid-cases-soar

 

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Another strawman. You really should start addressing points I actually make. Rather than creating and then attacking positions I do not hold.

 

Instead of opposing the government by objecting to such strict lockdowns, Labour instead opted for oneupmanship and told them there should be even stricter, harsher lockdowns, sooner. They are as useless in opposition as they would have been in government. Fortunately they are too clueless to win elections so we didn't have to suffer even stricter lockdowns and even more economic damage.

 

If you don't believe me, maybe a look at your favourite Communist tabloid will help?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/03/keir-starmer-calls-for-immediate-lockdown-in-england-as-covid-cases-soar

 

Getting back to topic.

 

The interest rate hike coupled with the unfunded tax give away to the already wealthy isn’t going too well is it.

 

 

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Getting back to topic.

 

The interest rate hike coupled with the unfunded tax give away to the already wealthy isn’t going too well is it.

 

 

Your grasp on economics is very limited, isn't it?

 

 

Whether the policies are effective, or not, will not be determined in the space of a few days

[nigelforbes]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Getting back to topic.

 

The interest rate hike coupled with the unfunded tax give away to the already wealthy isn’t going too well is it.

 

 

Oh I don't know, the UK thrives on these sorts of drama's and now that Boris has gone and Sunak's attempt at a takeover has failed, the people at home were starting to get restless, a void needs to be filled and this fits the bill perfectly. People all over the country will be reaching for the popcorn and pretty soon the papers will be full of headlines such as, "How Much Longer Can Truss Survive".

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, hotandsticky said:

Your grasp on economics is very limited, isn't it?

 

 

Whether the policies are effective, or not, will not be determined in the space of a few days

Right now the calculation being made is how long this game of chance will last.

 

Economics 101, interest rates go up, people with mortgages suffer.

 

Tory Party conference in two weeks followed by Parliament re sitting.

 

How long do you want to give it?