Mystery leaks hit Russian undersea gas pipelines to Europe

[rabas]

  On 2/9/2023 at 12:15 PM, internationalism said:

Norway, which runs baltic pipeline, is implicated (together with the USA), in blowing nord stream.

How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline? They have enough problems with Ukraine to risk potentially military conflict with Norway, which is in NATO.

 

The USA made some warnings, now can be treated as confessions:

 

"@UnderSecStateP

Victoria Nuland: “If Russia invades Ukraine, one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward.”

 

"U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said on Wednesday the Nord Stream 2 pipeline between Russia and Germany will not move forward if Russia invades Ukraine.

"I want to be very clear: if Russia invades Ukraine one way or another, Nord Stream 2 will not move forward," Price told NPR. "I'm not going to get into the specifics. We will work with Germany to ensure it does not move forward."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/nord-stream-2-will-not-move-forward-if-russia-invades-ukraine-state-dept-2022-01-27/

 

"US Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs Victoria Nuland has expressed joy over the destruction of Russia’s Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline. She also argued that, even if the US had sanctioned the infrastructure weeks before the Ukraine conflict broke out, this would not have prevented hostilities.

During a Senate hearing on Thursday, Nuland was asked by Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) whether his legislation aimed at sanctioning the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline, which was voted down in January 2022, could have stopped the conflict before it began.

“Like you, I am, and I think the administration is, very gratified to know that Nord Stream 2 is now, as you like to say, a hunk of metal at the bottom of the sea,” Nuland said."

https://thepressunited.com/updates/top-us-official-hails-nord-stream-2-blast/

Expand  

"How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline?"

 

From the start, the simple answer for those willing to see is that Putin blew them up to blame America and thus divide NATO, which was Putin's original purpose in building the pipelines.

 

After his attempts to threaten Europe with energy starvation failed big time, the pipelines would never be used again as long as Putin remained in power.  You can't move pipelines so their only remaining value to Putin was a false flag operation to finally split NATO. To Putin, everything is about NATO, even his Ukraine war. If he is willing to kill 100,000s of Russians in Ukraine, what's a couple of now useless pipes?

 

[placeholder]

  On 2/10/2023 at 2:48 AM, internationalism said:

Within 1h after blast, american surveillance aircraft Poseidon came to an area on a sheduled flight. Recorded on flightradar. 

 

"Igor Korotchenko, the head of the Centre for Analysis of World Arms Trade, has told Sputnik that the flight path of the aircraft on Flightradar24 supports the investigation of Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist SeymourHersh on the blowing up of the Nord Stream pipelines. 

"Taking into account that the route of American P-8A Poseidon was calculated with refueling over Poland and it was necessary to synchronize all these moments, we can say that its arrival at the given time � immediately after the attack� indicates the scheduled flight and, therefore, is another confirmation of the version put forward by American journalist Hersh of the reasons and circumstances of the attack. This once again proves the involvement of official US governmentagencies in this sabotage," Korotchenko said.

 

https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/us-surveillance-aircraft-monitored-results-of-1640324.html

Expand  

Accused of:

Inciting war and hatred, distorting facts, thereby contributing to the killing of civilians and violation of the territorial integrity of Ukraine.

Prior to the conflict in Ukraine, Igor Korotchenko had called for the murder of Mikheil Saakashvili, a former Georgian president and Ukrainian politician.

Korotchenko receives multimillion-ruble state orders from enterprises subordinate to the Ministry of Defense for his propaganda activities.

https://www.spisok-putina.org/en/personas/korotchenko-2/

[placeholder]

  On 2/9/2023 at 12:15 PM, internationalism said:

Norway, which runs baltic pipeline, is implicated (together with the USA), in blowing nord stream.How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline? They have enough problems with Ukraine to risk potentially military conflict with Norway, which is in NATO.

 

Expand  

They could have been sending Norway a message that any pipeline is easily sabotaged. And given how reckless Putin has been, why wouldn't he send Norway a message?

[internationalism]

  On 2/10/2023 at 2:53 AM, rabas said:

"How russia can threaten Norway by blowing up their own pipeline?"

 

From the start, the simple answer for those willing to see is that Putin blew them up to blame America and thus divide NATO, which was Putin's original purpose in building the pipelines.

 

After his attempts to threaten Europe with energy starvation failed big time, the pipelines would never be used again as long as Putin remained in power.  You can't move pipelines so their only remaining value to Putin was a false flag operation to finally split NATO. To Putin, everything is about NATO, even his Ukraine war. If he is willing to kill 100,000s of Russians in Ukraine, what's a couple of pipes?

Expand  

care to comment on Biden, Newland and Price statements they will stop nord stream by any means?

It's clearly america which benefitted from blowing pipes - they are now able to sell their LNG at exorbitant prices to europe. German and the other countries energy consuming factories relocating to USA for cheap energy and stability.

 

Nord streams cost some e11bln each. Plus e1.6bln for escaped gas. Plus repair costs, probably in hundreds of millions. That is some e24bln in investment, to be lost (as you suggest).

The 1st nord stream opened in 2011, it took some 14 years for planning and construction. That was yet before Putin became president.

NATO has not split after blows, europe is much dependent on the usa military help. Even NATO members Turkey, Slovakia and Hungary are depending very much on russian gas and oil. Some 

Split might come when there would be strong antiwar movement within NATO countries, forcing governments to retract their stance on Ukraine war or leading to entire change of some governments. 

 

Today's comment from the former Australian foreign minister. He believes Hershe's story:

 

"“We then saw all the obstacles that were created […]”That’s why the construction took much longer than expected,” he continued. “What we’re seeing now is that with the pipeline already destroyed, the US can be sure that it won’t become operational in the future. foreseeable, despite the fact that Gazprom announced that it would be willing to repair the destroyed parts. That’s why I think the US has won more [que nadie]Kneiss said.

 

https://then24.com/2023/02/09/usa-has-won-more-than-anyone-with-the-explosion-of-the-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-says-former-austrian-foreign-minister/

 

 

 

 

[Gweiloman]

  On 2/10/2023 at 4:03 AM, internationalism said:

care to comment on Biden, Newland and Price statements they will stop nord stream by any means?

It's clearly america which benefitted from blowing pipes - they are now able to sell their LNG at exorbitant prices to europe. German and the other countries energy consuming factories relocating to USA for cheap energy and stability.

 

Nord streams cost some e11bln each. Plus e1.6bln for escaped gas. Plus repair costs, probably in hundreds of millions. That is some e24bln in investment, to be lost (as you suggest).

The 1st nord stream opened in 2011, it took some 14 years for planning and construction. That was yet before Putin became president.

NATO has not split after blows, europe is much dependent on the usa military help. Even NATO members Turkey, Slovakia and Hungary are depending very much on russian gas and oil. Some 

Split might come when there would be strong antiwar movement within NATO countries, forcing governments to retract their stance on Ukraine war or leading to entire change of some governments. 

 

Today's comment from the former Australian foreign minister. He believes Hershe's story:

 

"“We then saw all the obstacles that were created […]”That’s why the construction took much longer than expected,” he continued. “What we’re seeing now is that with the pipeline already destroyed, the US can be sure that it won’t become operational in the future. foreseeable, despite the fact that Gazprom announced that it would be willing to repair the destroyed parts. That’s why I think the US has won more [que nadie]Kneiss said.

 

https://then24.com/2023/02/09/usa-has-won-more-than-anyone-with-the-explosion-of-the-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-says-former-austrian-foreign-minister/

 

 

 

 

Expand  

Most people I have spoken to believe that it wasn’t Russia that blew up the pipelines simply because it makes no sense whatsoever. If there is any evidence that Russia did it, it would have been released by now. But because whatever evidence has been uncovered most likely points westwards, nothing official has been released.

 

Don’t waste your time trying to convince anyone else here otherwise. You will merely get trolled and reported. 

[internationalism]

  On 2/10/2023 at 3:02 AM, placeholder said:

They could have been sending Norway a message that any pipeline is easily sabotaged. And given how reckless Putin has been, why wouldn't he send Norway a message?

Expand  

but since construction and opening of baltic pipeline there was not any threat to it.

 

On contrary, during construction of nord stream:

RAND report from 2019, commissioned by the US military, recommended “A major step might be to shut down Nord Stream 2.”

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html

 

July 2020, Mike Pompeo:

"We’ll do the whole thing attainable to be sure that this pipeline does not threaten Europe.”

https://www.rferl.org/a/pompeo-u-s-will-do-everything-to-stop-nord-stream-2/30757543.html

 

 

 

[placeholder]

  On 2/10/2023 at 4:03 AM, internationalism said:

care to comment on Biden, Newland and Price statements they will stop nord stream by any means?

It's clearly america which benefitted from blowing pipes - they are now able to sell their LNG at exorbitant prices to europe. German and the other countries energy consuming factories relocating to USA for cheap energy and stability.

 

Nord streams cost some e11bln each. Plus e1.6bln for escaped gas. Plus repair costs, probably in hundreds of millions. That is some e24bln in investment, to be lost (as you suggest).

The 1st nord stream opened in 2011, it took some 14 years for planning and construction. That was yet before Putin became president.

NATO has not split after blows, europe is much dependent on the usa military help. Even NATO members Turkey, Slovakia and Hungary are depending very much on russian gas and oil. Some 

Split might come when there would be strong antiwar movement within NATO countries, forcing governments to retract their stance on Ukraine war or leading to entire change of some governments. 

 

Today's comment from the former Australian foreign minister. He believes Hershe's story:

 

"“We then saw all the obstacles that were created […]”That’s why the construction took much longer than expected,” he continued. “What we’re seeing now is that with the pipeline already destroyed, the US can be sure that it won’t become operational in the future. foreseeable, despite the fact that Gazprom announced that it would be willing to repair the destroyed parts. That’s why I think the US has won more [que nadie]Kneiss said.

 

 

https://then24.com/2023/02/09/usa-has-won-more-than-anyone-with-the-explosion-of-the-nord-stream-gas-pipelines-says-former-austrian-foreign-minister/

Expand  

Actually,  the former Austrian foreign minister. Here's a little bit more about this person

Karin Kneissl (born 18 January 1965) is an Austrian diplomat, journalist and independent politician, having served as Minister of Foreign Affairs between 2017 and 2019. She is an expert on the Middle East and was a lecturer before assuming the government position she was offered by Chancellor Sebastian Kurz.

Since 2020 she has been working as a blogger for Russia Today, between June 2021 and May 2022 she was a member of the supervisory board of Rosneft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Kneissl

 

Not surprising that this is your idea of a reliable analyst.

One other detail. This is what "he" looks like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Kneissl

 

And you know what Russian head of state danced with her at her 2018 wedding? 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/02/former-austrian-minister-given-seat-on-board-of-russias-rosneft

[onthedarkside]

A post has been removed for breaking fair use policy

 

Only post a link, the headline and three sentences from the article

 

Please also follow the world forum rules.

 

Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source.

[internationalism]

reaction from chinese media, associated with their government. I came across this article by translation to spanish in argentina.

In that paragraph they reffer to their editorial back in September 2022.

 

"The Global Times then published an editorial, calling for relevant international agencies to set up a joint investigation team to restore the truth as soon as possible, find out the perpetrators, and let them be punished. But as expected, some countries are blocking such an international investigation, and more than four months have passed, with little progress made. Hersh's report now at least provides an important clue to the international investigation.

 

"Washington owes world an explanation of Nord Stream explosion: Global Times editorial"

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202302/1285178.shtml

[placeholder]

  On 2/10/2023 at 6:46 AM, internationalism said:

reaction from chinese media, associated with their government. I came across this article by translation to spanish in argentina.

In that paragraph they reffer to their editorial back in September 2022.

 

"The Global Times then published an editorial, calling for relevant international agencies to set up a joint investigation team to restore the truth as soon as possible, find out the perpetrators, and let them be punished. But as expected, some countries are blocking such an international investigation, and more than four months have passed, with little progress made. Hersh's report now at least provides an important clue to the international investigation.

 

"Washington owes world an explanation of Nord Stream explosion: Global Times editorial"

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202302/1285178.shtml

Expand  

Well, there are some small signs of improvement in the way you are reporting various views. At least you are acknowledging some sort of relationship between them and the Russian govt. That said, don't you think characterizing the Global Times as being associated with the Chinese govt is a rather tepid way of putting it?

How about this instead?

The Global Times (simplified Chinese: 环球时报; traditional Chinese: 環球時報; pinyin: Huánqiú Shíbào) is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's flagship newspaper, the People's Daily, commenting on international issues from a Chinese ultra-nationalistic perspective.^{[1][2][3][4][5]...}

The newspaper has been the source of various incidents, including fabrications, conspiracy theories, and disinformation.^{[note 1]} It is part of a broader set of Chinese state media outlets that constitute the Chinese government's propaganda apparatus.^[18][19]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times}

[internationalism]

  On 2/10/2023 at 10:45 AM, placeholder said:

Well, there are some small signs of improvement in the way you are reporting various views. At least you are acknowledging some sort of relationship between them and the Russian govt. That said, don't you think characterizing the Global Times as being associated with the Chinese govt is a rather tepid way of putting it?

How about this instead?

The Global Times (simplified Chinese: 环球时报; traditional Chinese: 環球時報; pinyin: Huánqiú Shíbào) is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the Chinese Communist Party's flagship newspaper, the People's Daily, commenting on international issues from a Chinese ultra-nationalistic perspective.^{[1][2][3][4][5]...}

The newspaper has been the source of various incidents, including fabrications, conspiracy theories, and disinformation.^{[note 1]} It is part of a broader set of Chinese state media outlets that constitute the Chinese government's propaganda apparatus.^[18][19]

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Times}

Expand  

they have called twice for an international investigation into case of an international terrorism.

Non of many national investigations pointed to Russia. They know who did it, but for national security reasons can't disclose.

Robert Habeck from German Federal Ministry of Economics said on 15th December:

"After careful consideration, the Federal Government has come to the conclusion that the questions cannot be answered for reasons of public welfare." 

That translation comes from an official document in german  https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/20/049/2004964.pdf

 

Just a few days ago, Attorney General Peter Frank said in an interview that there was no evidence that Russia was the author.

 

Yesterday there was a call for Bundestag to form a special commission:

 

"The AfD wants to have open questions about the explosions on the Nord Stream gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea clarified by a committee of inquiry in the Bundestag. AfD faction leader Tino Chrupalla justified his advance on Thursday with research by the well-known investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, according to which the USA had blown up the pipelines on orders from the White House. "

https://globalhappenings.com/politics/307224.html

 

So now it's clear - if not russia, it was the USA.

.

If Biden pushed the button, how to trust him with the red button on a nuclear console?

Looks like for him it's just virtual reality game of a man with steel balls, who can do whatever he wants to do.

 

 

[candide]

 

  On 2/10/2023 at 11:03 AM, internationalism said:

they have called twice for an international investigation into case of an international terrorism.

Non of many national investigations pointed to Russia. They know who did it, but for national security reasons can't disclose.

Robert Habeck from German Federal Ministry of Economics said on 15th December:

"After careful consideration, the Federal Government has come to the conclusion that the questions cannot be answered for reasons of public welfare." 

That translation comes from an official document in german  https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/20/049/2004964.pdf

 

Just a few days ago, Attorney General Peter Frank said in an interview that there was no evidence that Russia was the author.

 

Yesterday there was a call for Bundestag to form a special commission:

 

"The AfD wants to have open questions about the explosions on the Nord Stream gas pipelines in the Baltic Sea clarified by a committee of inquiry in the Bundestag. AfD faction leader Tino Chrupalla justified his advance on Thursday with research by the well-known investigative reporter Seymour Hersh, according to which the USA had blown up the pipelines on orders from the White House. "

https://globalhappenings.com/politics/307224.html

 

So now it's clear - if not russia, it was the USA.

.

If Biden pushed the button, how to trust him with the red button on a nuclear console?

Looks like for him it's just virtual reality game of a man with steel balls, who can do whatever he wants to do.

 

 

Expand  

It's interesting to see the German extreme right supporting the POV of the "anti- nazi" Putin

[internationalism]

  On 2/10/2023 at 11:53 AM, candide said:

 

It's interesting to see the German extreme right supporting the POV of the "anti- nazi" Putin

Expand  

no, they call for a bundestag to investigate and eventually ask the US army to depart from germany, as they pose threat. 

In no way they associate with putin just by demanding answer about international terrorism.

if they are nationalists, they migh hate other nationalists, whether in russia or the usa

[candide]

  On 2/10/2023 at 11:56 AM, internationalism said:

no, they call for a bundestag to investigate and eventually ask the US army to depart from germany, as they pose threat. 

In no way they associate with putin just by demanding answer about internationa terrorism

Expand  

There are known pro-Russia and even pro-Putin tendencies in the AfD. And, oh surprise, It's the AfD raising this issue.

Ex.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/far-right-german-politicians-accused-of-pro-putin-propaganda-trip

[placeholder]

  On 2/10/2023 at 12:23 PM, candide said:

There are known pro-Russia and even pro-Putin tendencies in the AfD. And, oh surprise, It's the AfD raising this issue.

Ex.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/20/far-right-german-politicians-accused-of-pro-putin-propaganda-trip

Expand  

It's the same thing with the former Austrian Foreign Minister. She was part of the extreme rightist Kurz govt. They adored Putin. Even sent a delegation to take a tour of Crimea. 

By the way, she's living in Lebanon now. She says because she's in fear of her life if she stays in Austria. So Lebanon? Or maybe it's because Lebanon has no extradition treaty with the EU.

[Credo]

This sounds like one giant conspiracy.  The US had no reason to blow up a pipeline.  The US government doesn't sell fuel to Europe, the oil companies do.  Politically, it would have been better to keep that fuel in the US and lower the prices.   

[Bkk Brian]

  On 2/10/2023 at 1:47 PM, internationalism said:

some journalists on legal aspects of international terrorism:

 

"According to the Constitution, only Congress has the power to declare war on another country. Joe Biden has usurped that authority and carried out an act of war against a NATO ally (Germany). The potential ramifications of this act include the heightened risk of the U.S. starting a shooting war with Russia."

"Evidence confirms key part of Sy Hersh's report on the attack on Nord Streat 2"

https://sonar21.com/independent-evidence-confirms-key-part-of-sy-hershs-report-on-the-attack-on-nord-stream-2/

 

"For the Executive to commit what is an act of war without the approval of the Legislature is fundamentally unconstitutional. But that is one of those quaint remnants of democracy that the neo-liberal elite consensus can quietly sidestep nowadays.

Hersh sets out the well known background in compelling detail,  including the fact that, from Biden down, the Americans effectively announced what they were going to do, openly."

"Sy Hersh and The Way We Live Now"

https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/02/sy-hersh-and-the-way-we-live-now/

Expand  

Your internet search history must interesting with all these links you keep coming up with. Some journalists you say..................lol

 

Your first link is an article from Larry C. Johnson

 

Larry C. Johnson is a blogger and former analyst at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. He is the co-owner and CEO of BERG Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group). He is best known for spreading a hoax in 2008 that Republican operatives had a videotape of Michelle Obama complaining about "whitey".[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_C._Johnson

 

Your second link from Craig Murray and his conspiracy theories on the poisoning of Sergei Skripa by Russia in Salisbury, UK

 

"One of the voices that gained traction in relation to the spy attack story belongs to former British diplomat Craig Murray, who took exception to the speed with which Russia was declared responsible. Picking up on the government line that the toxin was “of a type developed by Russia” he penned a blog entitled: “Of a type developed by liars” building on his previous piece “Russian to judgement” which contained numerous allegations, including that “Israel has a clear motivation for damaging the Russian reputation so grievously”.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2018/03/how-conspiracy-theories-about-salisbury-attack-tap-antisemitic-tropes

 

[Scott]

Continued use of unapproved source will result in a suspension.  When making a claim, use links from credible sources.  

 

[internationalism]

yesterday's follow up from Hersh on media and governments  reactions to his report within the last week:

 

"This a brief combat report from the battlefield here and abroad in the aftermath of the release last Wednesday of my story about Joe Biden’s decision to blow up the Nord Stream pipelines."

 

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/the-<deleted>-on-the-wall

 

"Russia will call a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Feb. 22 to discuss “sabotage” of the Nord Stream gas pipelines, the Russian mission to the United Nations said on Wednesday, according to the state-run RIA news agency."

https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-nordstream-russia/russia-to-call-u-n-security-council-meeting-over-nord-stream-blasts-ria-idUKS8N34H05O

 

Hersh declines to attend this UNSC session, looks like he was invited to participate there:

 

"I don’t do anything with the government, government or anybody else’s government," - he said when asked by TASS if he had received an invitation to speak at the session.

Hersh said that he does not plan any other public speeches, for example at the United States Congress."

 

"US journalist Seymour Hersh has no plans to speak at UNSC concerning Nord Stream blasts"

https://tass.com/world/1577031

 

[placeholder]

  On 2/10/2023 at 4:13 AM, Gweiloman said:

Most people I have spoken to believe that it wasn’t Russia that blew up the pipelines simply because it makes no sense whatsoever. If there is any evidence that Russia did it, it would have been released by now. But because whatever evidence has been uncovered most likely points westwards, nothing official has been released.

 

Don’t waste your time trying to convince anyone else here otherwise. You will merely get trolled and reported. 

Expand  

Of course it makes sense for Russia to have done it. Russia had already been holding up shipments of gas by claiming that there were various mechanical problems. But it could only do that so long before it would be subject to a serious lawsuit claiming massive damages for violation of its contract. But with the pipeline blown up, Russia could claim force majeure as justification for not fulfilling its contract.

[candide]

  On 2/16/2023 at 8:53 AM, placeholder said:

Of course it makes sense for Russia to have done it. Russia had already been holding up shipments of gas by claiming that there were various mechanical problems. But it could only do that so long before it would be subject to a serious lawsuit claiming massive damages for violation of its contract. But with the pipeline blown up, Russia could claim force majeure as justification for not fulfilling its contract.

Expand  

I agree with the "force majeure" argument, but I think It's a bit more subtle. First, It's not Russia, but Gazprom which is the contractor (ok, it is controlled by the State). In order for Gazprom to avoid penalties, the government must issue an order or law mandating it to stop deliveries. While it is technically possible, the problem is that Russia is desperately looking for new sales opportunities for its energy products. Who would contract with Russia, if it had a policy to just stop exports in case of disagreement?

[placeholder]

  On 2/16/2023 at 9:09 AM, candide said:

I agree with the "force majeure" argument, but I think It's a bit more subtle. First, It's not Russia, but Gazprom which is the contractor (ok, it is controlled by the State). In order for Gazprom to avoid penalties, the government must issue an order or law mandating it to stop deliveries. While it is technically possible, the problem is that Russia is desperately looking for new sales opportunities for its energy products. Who would contract with Russia, if it had a policy to just stop exports in case of disagreement?

Expand  

Thanks for the correction.

[candide]

  On 2/16/2023 at 9:17 AM, placeholder said:

Thanks for the correction.

Expand  

Well, it took me some time to finally get it.

[internationalism]

the second Daily Mail article on Hersh (the first one was published on 8th February).

That is the second major british newspaper (after The Times), which published such detailed analysis. 

 

from the last chapter of this article, titled "The verdict", there is quotation from the most senior counter-intelligence Swedish officer:

"‘We have no concrete evidence,’ he said. ‘But hopefully we will. The entire investigation is unusual.’

 

Title of this article:

"It's the international whodunnit that's stumped investigators across the world. Now, as a Pultizer-prize winning journalist points the finger at the CIA... Who DID blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11760473/As-Pultizer-prize-winning-journalist-points-CIA-DID-blow-Nord-Stream-pipeline.html

 

[stevenl]

  On 2/21/2023 at 2:41 AM, internationalism said:

the second Daily Mail article on Hersh (the first one was published on 8th February).

That is the second major british newspaper (after The Times), which published such detailed analysis. 

 

from the last chapter of this article, titled "The verdict", there is quotation from the most senior counter-intelligence Swedish officer:

"‘We have no concrete evidence,’ he said. ‘But hopefully we will. The entire investigation is unusual.’

 

Title of this article:

"It's the international whodunnit that's stumped investigators across the world. Now, as a Pultizer-prize winning journalist points the finger at the CIA... Who DID blow up the Nord Stream pipeline?"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11760473/As-Pultizer-prize-winning-journalist-points-CIA-DID-blow-Nord-Stream-pipeline.html

 

Expand  

In short at the end the question is asked: who blew it up.

[internationalism]

washington post article from december:

 

“There is no evidence at this point that Russia was behind the sabotage,” said one European official, echoing the assessment of 23 diplomatic and intelligence officials in nine countries interviewed in recent weeks. 

Some went so far as to say they didn’t think Russia was responsible."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

[ozimoron]

  On 2/21/2023 at 5:55 AM, internationalism said:

washington post article from december:

 

“There is no evidence at this point that Russia was behind the sabotage,” said one European official, echoing the assessment of 23 diplomatic and intelligence officials in nine countries interviewed in recent weeks. 

Some went so far as to say they didn’t think Russia was responsible."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

Expand  

If the US did it, which I doubt, then good. It achieves two worthwhile purposes. One it stops Russian income from sales and secondly it reduces fossil fuel burning. win win!

[heybruce]

  On 2/21/2023 at 5:55 AM, internationalism said:

washington post article from december:

 

“There is no evidence at this point that Russia was behind the sabotage,” said one European official, echoing the assessment of 23 diplomatic and intelligence officials in nine countries interviewed in recent weeks. 

Some went so far as to say they didn’t think Russia was responsible."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2022/12/21/russia-nord-stream-explosions/

Expand  

Statement of the obvious.  The reason we don't know who sabotaged the pipeline is that there is no evidence showing who sabotaged the pipeline.

 

 

[internationalism]

  On 2/21/2023 at 6:16 AM, ozimoron said:

If the US did it, which I doubt, then good. It achieves two worthwhile purposes. One it stops Russian income from sales and secondly it reduces fossil fuel burning. win win!

Expand  

an act of an international terrorism and an act of war against it's NATO ally, germany, and against Russia, without Congress approval, might have implications.

Biden impeachement. Lost elections for Biden and loss for democrats several associated politicians. 

In short term Bundestag asking the US army to leave their territory. In long term germany suspending their NATO commitments and membership.

 

Republican senators are rising questions:

https://www.newsweek.com/nord-stream-attack-senator-raises-alarms-about-alleged-us-involvement-1780192

 

Legal side, as well as Biden's hipocrisy:

https://www.newsweek.com/constitutional-hypocrisy-nord-stream-2-explosion-opinion-1780929

 

This precedence might lead to other acts of international terrorism, Michael Rubin (former pentagon advisor) just 4 days after nord stream blow. Such blow to Turkey infrastructure would lead to yet another NATO member leaving. Rubin is using the same argument against Turk Stream, which was used for Nord Stream 

"https://www.aei.org/op-eds/biden-should-kill-turkstream-to-promote-transatlantic-energy-security/" 

[ozimoron]

  On 2/22/2023 at 3:29 AM, internationalism said:

an act of an international terrorism and an act of war against it's NATO ally, germany, and against Russia, without Congress approval, might have implications.

Biden impeachement. Lost elections for Biden and loss for democrats several associated politicians. 

In short term Bundestag asking the US army to leave their territory. In long term germany suspending their NATO commitments and membership.

 

Republican senators are rising questions:

https://www.newsweek.com/nord-stream-attack-senator-raises-alarms-about-alleged-us-involvement-1780192

 

Legal side, as well as Biden's hipocrisy:

https://www.newsweek.com/constitutional-hypocrisy-nord-stream-2-explosion-opinion-1780929

 

This precedence might lead to other acts of international terrorism, Michael Rubin (former pentagon advisor) just 4 days after nord stream blow. Such blow to Turkey infrastructure would lead to yet another NATO member leaving. Rubin is using the same argument against Turk Stream, which was used for Nord Stream 

"https://www.aei.org/op-eds/biden-should-kill-turkstream-to-promote-transatlantic-energy-security/" 

Expand  

Most Republicans and most Dems support military aid to Russia. There's no question of war without congressional approval. In fact the Senate overruled Trump with a super majority to deliver aid to Ukraine.

 

If Turkey leaves NATO then good. While Turkey is a strategic player they are running interference for Russia which is unacceptable for a NATO country.