Furniture Scam....Powerless

[alyx]

Hey Everyone 

 

On April 25, 2022 I bought some rattan furniture online from a "company" supposedly  located in Khon Kaen with a delivery scheduled in Bangkok  on June 5 

End of May I called to confirm my location but the guy I had over the phone said it would take more time than planned

Needles to say that he has been delaying ever since every time I called ( when he answered).

He called me once to say he had Covid, then a few weeks later when i kept calling him. someone of his staff sent me a picture of a guy laying in the emergency room of some hospital, not related to Covid ( at that point I already knew there was a serious problem and later on, too late , I checked on Internet and this "shop" is reputed for its scams) 

Constantly ignoring my messages on Messenger until I went to the Police who called him.

He told the Police he would deliver on September 20.

A couple of days ago I went back to the Police to whom he told  October 10

The Police cannot do anything else as long as this guy shows that he is willing to comply which is "stupidly clever" as it cannot be filed as a criminal case but a financial case. Therefore the Police will not let me file against the guy

I guess he plans to drag this aver the years until people get tired and give up because the amounts are not that high and not worth. the chase

 

Due to the current regulations, you will understand that I cannot divulge the name and supposed location but I wonder whether anyone has an idea or knows someone I would hire on site ( that I would pay after getting the evidence this time ???? ) to prove that this business (which I think) is not legitimate.

I will take it from there. 

 

Any other suggestion is welcome as I am not going to let it go (not currently in Thailand otherwise I guess I would have visited this beautiful province already)

 

Thanks in advance ( before anyone asks the amount is 22K and I am not prepared to sit on it )

 

[Bruno123]

https://www.ocpb.go.th/ewtadmin/ewt/ocpb_en/ewt_news.php?nid=30

[ThailandRyan]

DO you have a supposed shop location?  Hard to follow-up by looking if there is no actual location which would then conclude that this is truly a scam.  Time to ask for the money to be returned as the business has not followed through and delay after delay is just a way of staving off a court case, which can be filed for failure to fill the contractual obligation. Use the OCPB website and file a legitimate complaint.

Edited September 30, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[martin81]

Why pay in advance for furniture. Just pay on delivery

 

[alyx]

7 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

DO you have a supposed shop location?  Hard to follow-up by looking if there is no actual location which would then conclude that this is truly a scam.  Time to ask for the money to be returned as the business has not followed through and delay after delay is just a way of staving off a court case, which can be filed for failure to fill the contractual obligation. Use the OCPB website and file a legitimate complaint.

Thanks 

 

I have pictures (provided by this shop )  and the location pf the business on the invoice 

Nut I need to check whether this is true

[OneMoreFarang]

Did he guarantee the delivery date?

I guess he can postpone it a little, but not until next year or whatever.

Maybe ask a lawyer to call him. And maybe, if you are lucky, he understands that he better pay you your money back and then you will leave him alone and he can scam other people.

Put him in a position where he is willing to pay to get rid of you.

 

Obviously I don't know if this works, but it might work.

[alyx]

Just now, martin81 said:

Why pay in advance for furniture. Just pay on delivery

 

Well, sorry but when you order stuff it is quite common to be asked to pay for a deposit 

[alyx]

10 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

https://www.ocpb.go.th/ewtadmin/ewt/ocpb_en/ewt_news.php?nid=30

Thanks Bruno

[alyx]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did he guarantee the delivery date?

I guess he can postpone it a little, but not until next year or whatever.

Maybe ask a lawyer to call him. And maybe, if you are lucky, he understands that he better pay you your money back and then you will leave him alone and he can scam other people.

Put him in a position where he is willing to pay to get rid of you.

 

Obviously I don't know if this works, but it might work.

Nothing in writing as in a contract. Only on Messenger and Line but that can be used I guess

If this guy is a fraud he is good at using the justice's loopholes 

I already asked him to refund but failed to reply 

Also at some point I asked him to send ne the furniture he had made rather than waiting one month for the last chair ....not to avail

[marin]

10 minutes ago, alyx said:

when you order stuff it is quite common to be asked to pay for a deposit 

Seems you paid in full, unless 22,000 is the deposit. 

[Iamfalang]

I get it....almost.   Felt like I was going to 100% scammed a few times, didn't.   Got semi-scammed a few times, and once it was like 3000 but he offered a return and I mistakenly tried to fix it myself.......another bad product was 4000 that I gave away........never scammed this blatantly, but a THAI guy I know has.   Paid for an amulet (he said more than 20,000) and never got the amulet.  Police report was 20 baht he said and he knows nothing can be done.   

 

You probably have to forget about it......think about all the money you saved on rent, other stuff like food, etc.....

 

Seems like you have to sue them in court, and that means extra headaches for everyone.  He'll get mad, which might be what you want now......all over 22,000.    

 

It's a horrible feeling, I get it.  scammed.  fraud.   but hopefully in life you have a net positive from gifts, easy money, good job a Thai could never have, etc....and you forget about this.

 

This 22,000 can suck years off your life in hatred.  Maybe this is your life war you have been waiting for...but I doubt it.  

 

 

Edited September 30, 2022 by Iamfalang

[alyx]

5 hours ago, marin said:

Seems you paid in full, unless 22,000 is the deposit. 

No, that is the deposit .....Quire a few items though

[alyx]

5 hours ago, Iamfalang said:

I get it....almost.   Felt like I was going to 100% scammed a few times, didn't.   Got semi-scammed a few times, and once it was like 3000 but he offered a return and I mistakenly tried to fix it myself.......another bad product was 4000 that I gave away........never scammed this blatantly, but a THAI guy I know has.   Paid for an amulet (he said more than 20,000) and never got the amulet.  Police report was 20 baht he said and he knows nothing can be done.   

 

You probably have to forget about it......think about all the money you saved on rent, other stuff like food, etc.....

 

Seems like you have to sue them in court, and that means extra headaches for everyone.  He'll get mad, which might be what you want now......all over 22,000.    

 

It's a horrible feeling, I get it.  scammed.  fraud.   but hopefully in life you have a net positive from gifts, easy money, good job a Thai could never have, etc....and you forget about this.

 

This 22,000 can suck years off your life in hatred.  Maybe this is your life war you have been waiting for...but I doubt it.  

 

 

Thanks for the support. I have no hatred at all. I just think that at some point these guys need to be stopped even though one is down and 10 take over.. I know about the lengthy court time but it is fine. 

[Andycoops]

All my online shopping is COD which prevents any problems such as this.

[alyx]

1 hour ago, Andycoops said:

All my online shopping is COD which prevents any problems such as this.

Thanks

What is COD ?

Also I did not pay online, I did transfer the amount

[nigelforbes]

1 minute ago, alyx said:

Thanks

What is COD ?

Also I did not pay online, I did transfer the amount

Either a North Sea cold water fish or Cash on Delivery.

[CM Dad]

18 hours ago, alyx said:

Well, sorry but when you order stuff it is quite common to be asked to pay for a deposit 

I have ordered both small and large items online for quite some time.  I have never been asked for a deposit.  I usually order things COD (cash on delivery), and have only been asked for payment in advance by reputable, large companies when I am buying things like washing machines, clothes dryers, refrigerators, or high ticket electronics - all of which I have purchased online in the past few months.  I always look for comments from previous buyers if I am purchasing anything from an unfamiliar source or when I am a first-time buyer.  The internet is convenient, but caution is required. 

[CM Dad]

3 minutes ago, alyx said:

Thanks

What is COD ?

Also I did not pay online, I did transfer the amount

By transferring the amount you, in fact, did pay online.  COD = cash on delivery.

[alyx]

5 minutes ago, CM Dad said:

I have ordered both small and large items online for quite some time.  I have never been asked for a deposit.  I usually order things COD (cash on delivery), and have only been asked for payment in advance by reputable, large companies when I am buying things like washing machines, clothes dryers, refrigerators, or high ticket electronics - all of which I have purchased online in the past few months.  I always look for comments from previous buyers if I am purchasing anything from an unfamiliar source or when I am a first-time buyer.  The internet is convenient, but caution is required. 

Thanks

But I was asked a deposit ( as a matter of fact more than not)

But this cash on delivery is only if the merchant agrees to it 

That cannot be done by mentioning it to the bank right?

Also, payment online would mean that I use their site ( you might disagree on the term though) and  Paypal or my bank directly ? which I did not 

To me, going to my bank, use an ATM or transfer from my app does not equal to paying online, although the latter might

As for checking the net, I reckon that I was slow. 

I usually do that and that was not the case and in that respect I am to blame. However being gullible is not a crime, embezzling is ????

[nigelforbes]

My wife orders lots of stuff from the internet, mostly business related but the purchases are all made as an individual. Big ticket items such as appliances that are ordered in stores are paid for when the item is ordered, smaller value items are paid for COD. That said, my wife runs an online business and sells around 75k of goods every month, each purchase is between 200 and 2,000 baht, based on the order. ALL purchases are paid for in advance, no exceptions and none of her over 3,000 customers have a problem with this.

[MrJ2U]

18 hours ago, alyx said:

Thanks 

 

I have pictures (provided by this shop )  and the location pf the business on the invoice 

Nut I need to check whether this is true

Similar thing happened to us.  My wife and I eventually went directly to the shop in question and made a hell of a scene.  We had the reciept and we're going to get the local police involved.  I think his mother or other family member came down and paid us by the end of the day.

 

Same thing, excuse after excuse.  I don't care if he's on his death bed, I want the work done or my money back.

 

Next time definitely no money upfront with Thai workers or products. 

[alyx]

23 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

My wife orders lots of stuff from the internet, mostly business related but the purchases are all made as an individual. Big ticket items such as appliances that are ordered in stores are paid for when the item is ordered, smaller value items are paid for COD. That said, my wife runs an online business and sells around 75k of goods every month, each purchase is between 200 and 2,000 baht, based on the order. ALL purchases are paid for in advance, no exceptions and none of her over 3,000 customers have a problem with this.

That is what people usually do but ....there are scammers everywhere and i was not careful enough

[alyx]

5 minutes ago, MrJ2U said:

Similar thing happened to us.  My wife and I eventually went directly to the shop in question and made a hell of a scene.  We had the reciept and we're going to get the local police involved.  I think his mother or other family member came down and paid us by the end of the day.

 

Same thing, excuse after excuse.  I don't care if he's on his death bed, I want the work done or my money back.

 

Next time definitely no money upfront with Thai workers or products. 

Agreed but I live in Bangkok (currently not in Thailand but will be back in a couple of months) and that is the reason I was trying to find someone in the area who could confirm/refute its existence. ( 

In the latter case then it is getting through the court

If it exists, then a visit is in order 

[newnative]

    I think it's easy to say that the OP should have ordered COD but in my experience that is likely not possible when you are having custom items made.  My Thai partner and I just took delivery of custom bedside tables we had made.  The great thing about living in Thailand is you can do custom at a reasonable cost.  We've done lots of custom kitchens, armoires, bath vanities, bed frames, bedside tables, etc.  Even a sofa and a dining table when we couldn't find what we wanted.  

    We've always had to put down a deposit each and every time and we understand the need for a deposit.  We're asking for custom items to be made to our exact specifications.  Suppose we disappear?  Change our minds and say, no, we don't want it after all.  Thanks, anyway.  The furniture maker is out the cost for the materials and labor.  We've never had a furniture maker not deliver a product.  We did have one experience where the quality was not what we were expecting.  

     The bedside tables I mentioned were ordered from a shop at JJ Market.  We like big bedside tables with plenty of storage and a nice 70 cm height--no interest in those tiny one-drawer tables 40 cm high.   The shop was great to work with and we could see samples of their work, paint and hardware choices, etc.  We hadn't used them before but we knew they have been at their shop there for a number of years.  We put a deposit down and got the tables about a month later--they turned out great.   For the OP I would say keep trying to resolve the issue and don't give up.

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, alyx said:

Thanks for the support. I have no hatred at all. I just think that at some point these guys need to be stopped even though one is down and 10 take over.. I know about the lengthy court time but it is fine. 

There are people people on here who for some strange reason think that locals can do no wrong and should be given free rein to scam "rich" farang without any criticism at all.

 

[ThailandRyan]

4 minutes ago, jesimps said:

There are people people on here who for some strange reason think that locals can do no wrong and should be given free rein to scam "rich" farang without any criticism at all.

 

Your point being what?  It is invariably the same view that the Government and many Thai's have of the Farang ATM, milk them for everything they can and it is no issue in there minds because they can afford it.

[MrJ2U]

3 hours ago, alyx said:

Agreed but I live in Bangkok (currently not in Thailand but will be back in a couple of months) and that is the reason I was trying to find someone in the area who could confirm/refute its existence. ( 

In the latter case then it is getting through the court

If it exists, then a visit is in order 

I'll be stopping two nights in Khon Kaen November 20-22.  If you haven't resolved anything by then. I'd be happy to see if there is a store there and if they actually carry rattan furniture.  Take some pics etc.  

 

I'll need an address and name. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by MrJ2U

[MrJ2U]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Your point being what?  It is invariably the same view that the Government and many Thai's have of the Farang ATM, milk them for everything they can and it is no issue in there minds because they can afford it.

Hence, Thailand's arcane dual pricing structure.

 

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by MrJ2U

[Tropposurfer]

23 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Did he guarantee the delivery date?

I guess he can postpone it a little, but not until next year or whatever.

Maybe ask a lawyer to call him. And maybe, if you are lucky, he understands that he better pay you your money back and then you will leave him alone and he can scam other people.

Put him in a position where he is willing to pay to get rid of you.

 

Obviously I don't know if this works, but it might work.

Yeah get a lawyer to phone, and write to him and put the frighteners on him big time.

[Tropposurfer]

1 hour ago, MrJ2U said:

I'll be stopping two nights in Khon Kaen November 20-22.  If you haven't resolved anything by then. I'd be happy to see if there is a store there and if they actually carry rattan furniture.  Take some pics etc.  

 

I'll need an address and name. 

 

 

If you want to take the real risk of being physically close to this unknown person and his place of business (remember if Thai men see a threat to them, are full of guilt and confronted ... simply by your presence there, and their face is compromised they can attack and in numbers) then I'd suggest you go and employ some the local Muay Thai school maybe the principal to help you out to go with you to stand as 'sentinel' and 'persuasion' tool to make the meeting go safely and as leverage to cough up your money.

I learnt here to not buy this way here - EVER but only buy face to face, get proper receipts, and take some happy snaps with the goods and the vendor, shop signage etc as a part of the 'friendly' free advertising' they'll get from my taking pics to post.

This way there's tonnes of evidence as buyer protection and the vendor knows this too. 

Sadly there are a lot of scammers everywhere in this world. Covid has made people desperate too and led to some folks who would have not done anything sleazy in the past to now out of desperation do such stuff.