15-year-old motorcyclist collides with dog and dies

[richard_smith237]

Just now, PJ71 said:

4 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It could easily have been a 40 year old, fully licensed, fully legal.... 

But..... a person as you describe would have had more knowledge of road conditions than a 15 year old boy, right?

 

Maybe driving cautiously due to expecting a stray, right?

A valid point...  

 

And we’d all like to think our ‘experience’ will help us.... But when a dog darts out between cars, from an alley way etc.. depending on the ‘space' there is little we can do about it... 

 

 

[PJ71]

3 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Do you struggle with reading or something ???? 

I struggle with  boredom.

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A valid point...  

 

And we’d all like to think our ‘experience’ will help us.... But when a dog darts out between cars, from an alley way etc.. depending on the ‘space' there is little we can do about it... 

 

 

Almost every accident can be avoided.

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I did not mean to suggest that there are no stray dogs in Thailand. All I was saying is that if you drive or walk through a typical Thai village and see 10-15 dogs lounging around, somebody has an ownership relationship with each and every one of those dogs, meaning that somebody is feeding them on a regular basis and they have a "home base" they "belong" to. The relationship between the dog and whoever is looking after it might be very tenuous and often consists of little more than daily feeding, but there's still a sense of ownership of the dog. If you want to label that a "stray" dog, OK.

Who claims responsibility for that dog when it bites someone or causes a car accident ?

If the answer is no-one, then its a stray. 

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

They're not dogs living out in the open, solely surviving by hunting and scavenging in the wild, with little regular contact with humans. In a village, a truly stray dog without any owner would be run out of town, so to speak, by the other dogs, and would most likely end up on the periphery of a village. These truly stray or what are sometimes referred to as "wild" dogs have no regular bond with any body or any home, and are mostly found out in remote peripheral areas. These are the dogs that you sometimes hear about good Samaritans taking pity on and leaving food for. That's what I would consider a truly stray dog, but if you want to label the village dogs described in the first paragraph as strays as well, OK, but I don't think most Thais would label those village dogs as strays.

IF the dog doesn’t have a collar and an owner who will take responsibility for its health, veterinarian fees etc... then its a stray. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Very few village dogs have collars. That's a Western hallmark of "ownership" that doesn't really apply here.

Because they are strays.  In Thailand pets which are ‘owned’ (i.e. not strays) have collars.

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

As far as an owner taking responsibility if the dog is involved in an accident being a test of whether a dog is a stray or not, I don't know for sure about this, but I think the attitude is that the operator of the vehicle is responsible for avoiding hitting it and if he doesn't, well, it's not the owner's responsibility.

If a dog runs out-across the street - its not always possible to miss it or brake in time. It's not the drivers fault. 

Of course there are also careless and reckless drivers who may also be responsible for their own carless actions. 

 

 

3 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

 

If you're saying that all dogs should have collars with name tags and vaccination tags, kept within a fenced yard, only be let out on a leash, and dog liability insurance should be mandatory, well, good luck with that. We both know that's not gonna happen any time soon.

 

That is what I’m saying - without this we have these issues, the issues of ’stray' dogs causing problems on the roads, biting etc

 

I agree, nothing is going to happen soon because people just don’t care... but the issue is not going away either. 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

10 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

A valid point...  

 

And we’d all like to think our ‘experience’ will help us.... But when a dog darts out between cars, from an alley way etc.. depending on the ‘space' there is little we can do about it... 

Almost every accident can be avoided.

I'd like to think so... but I entered reality and while we can do our best and ride / drive defensively, the actions of others or mechanical failure, or the unfordable can occur....   sometimes an accident cannot be avoided.... 

 

A dog darting out from behind a parked car straight in-front of us is not something we can avoid. It would be naive to think we have that much control of our situation which is while its always sensible to ride with the minimum of gear.... 

 

I compromise on my gear when riding around town: 

Always a helmet (open face when going very local), Always gloves, always footwear (never flip lops) trainers...  

When going further on faster roads, Full face helmet, riding jeans / pants, riding jacket with elbow, shoulder, back protector. 

 

The reason I do this is because I know I can’t always avoid an accident - although I’ve never had an accident so far... but all it takes is one dog and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

 

[proton]

47 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

based on these subtle comments, i'm guessing you're not a doggie lover - lol.

I hate them all, dirty, disgusting, stinking, drooling aggressive mutts. But I especially hate soi dogs, vermin the lot of 'em.

[richard_smith237]

47 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

the strays shouldn’t be there, they are a pest. 

Some might suggest that so are a lot of children, particularly in Thai villages where we're all aware supervision is lacking.

You are comparing a stray dog to a child to justify the presence of a stray dog ???

 

For the record, I have an equally damning opinion of parents who fail to look after their children properly...  

 

There are of course tragic accident, but where supervision is lacking such that children are wondering a main-street, then something is very wrong. 

(Note: I wrote main street - kids often play in quiet residential streets and that is fine, but they still need supervision of course). 

[PJ71]

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I'd like to think so... but I entered reality and while we can do our best and ride / drive defensively, the actions of others or mechanical failure, or the unfordable can occur....   sometimes an accident cannot be avoided.... 

 

A dog darting out from behind a parked car straight in-front of us is not something we can avoid. It would be naive to think we have that much control of our situation which is while its always sensible to ride with the minimum of gear.... 

 

I compromise on my gear when riding around town: 

Always a helmet (open face when going very local), Always gloves, always footwear (never flip lops) trainers...  

When going further on faster roads, Full face helmet, riding jeans / pants, riding jacket with elbow, shoulder, back protector. 

 

The reason I do this is because I know I can’t always avoid an accident - although I’ve never had an accident so far... but all it takes is one dog and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

 

Not sure the point of this post, to prove you have protective bike gear? you don't think anyone else does?

[richard_smith237]

Just now, proton said:

49 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

based on these subtle comments, i'm guessing you're not a doggie lover - lol.

I hate them all, dirty, disgusting, stinking, drooling aggressive mutts. But I especially hate soi dogs, vermin the lot of 'em.

I don’t hate them. I feel terrible sorry for them. 

 

The issue wasn’t dealt with two decades ago... so two decades later we have millions of dogs on the streets. 

 

At some point there will be little choice but to deal with the situation very harshly....  instead of spaying smaller numbers  across the nation 20 years ago and actively spaying existing soi dogs over the last 20 years so they could not procreate we instead no need to deal with a few million....

 

 

 

 

[richard_smith237]

Just now, PJ71 said:

Not sure the point of this post, to prove you have protective bike gear? you don't think anyone else does?

If you could avoid all accidents you wouldn’t need your protective bike gear !!! 

 

Thats the point...  sorry if you struggled with the long post. 

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

If you could avoid all accidents you wouldn’t need your protective bike gear !!! 

 

Thats the point...  sorry if you struggled with the long post. 

I struggle coz i don't bother reading most of what you write, makes me sleepy.

 

Sounds like you have an answer for everything.

[Screaming]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Just one of a dozen reasons for culling all soi dogs. They are not needed or wanted. They prey on people. They are filthy, and they cause accidents. Be gone. End their miserable lives. They are an infestation. 

Ship them to Vietnam for dog meat as they make excellent stir fry.

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

I struggle coz i don't bother reading most of what you write, makes me sleepy.

 

Sounds like you have an answer for everything.

Hmm...  ad hominem... 

 

[billd766]

47 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

It could easily have been a 40 year old, fully licensed, fully legal.... 

It could have been a parent with a child on their motorcycles. 

 

The motorcyclist is complicit in his own demise as a result of his choice not to wear a helmet. 

 

However, the stray dog running out is the cause of the accident - stray dogs are the problem. 

I agree with you.

 

If there was no stray dog there would have been no accident.

 

No "responsible" dog owner would allow their dogs out at that time of the day, unleashed and uncontrolled. We are told this every time by dog lovers.

 

If any accident occurs then the dog is instantly and studiously ignored by its owner, if any, because if the ownership is claimed, then the owner will be liable for any costs and damages.

 

Therefore it must have been a stray dog, one of millions who are fed and cared for, UNTIL an accident and then ownership is denied.

[PJ71]

5 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Hmm...  ad hominem... 

 

Had to google that, you're proficient in Latin? very impressive.

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

If there was no stray dog there would have been no accident

if there was no 15 year old illegal driver there would also have been no accident, what's your point?

[billd766]

23 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

I struggle coz i don't bother reading most of what you write, makes me sleepy.

 

Sounds like you have an answer for everything.

And from your posts you seem to have an answer for nothing.

[PJ71]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

And from your posts you seem to have an answer for nothing.

aw, that's sweet, you 2 should get a loom.

[richard_smith237]

2 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

aw, that's sweet, you 2 should get a loom.

Even after googling... you still fail to recognise you have ceased to debate the debate and are instead targeting the individuals with whom you disagree.... 

 

.. to use my own ad hominem...  you clearly do not have the intellectual tools to continue, but there are a couple of running threads such as ‘did you waste your life’ and ‘Is it safe to bring a freelancer  to your  apartment / condominium room?’ which you may not find less cerebrally tasking !!  

 

 

[PJ71]

6 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Even after googling... you still fail to recognise you have ceased to debate the debate and are instead targeting the individuals with whom you disagree.... 

 

.. to use my own ad hominem...  you clearly do not have the intellectual tools to continue, but there are a couple of running threads such as ‘did you waste your life’ and ‘Is it safe to bring a freelancer  to your  apartment / condominium room?’ which you may not find less cerebrally tasking !!  

 

 

You amuse me.

[Lacrimas]

At that age in my country you can only drive 50cc mopeds 

[Andre0720]

6 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

The dogs aren't strays. 99.5% have an owner. Problem is not everyone can afford a fence.

How about a leash?

 

[Andre0720]

10 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You amuse me.

Claiming the opposite of your true feeling will get you nowhere...

[MrJ2U]

6 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

The dogs aren't strays. 99.5% have an owner. Problem is not everyone can afford a fence.

Then they shouldn't have 30 "pet"  dogs. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by MrJ2U

[PJ71]

49 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

Claiming the opposite of your true feeling will get you nowhere...

You're clever....

[Andre0720]

21 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

You're clever....

And this response of yours demonstrates that you are quite a suave individual.... In addition to perhaps being a tad bit more clever than I might be...

Regards

[PJ71]

15 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

And this response of yours demonstrates that you are quite a suave individual

Thanks

15 minutes ago, Andre0720 said:

a tad bit more

Doh.......

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

Who claims responsibility for that dog when it bites someone or causes a car accident ?

If the answer is no-one, then its a stray. 

If you injure or kill it, there will be someone who owns it comes from behind a bush for compensation.... if it has caused an accident or bitten someone, the silence will be deafening, 

[toofarnorth]

and the bickering continues , I left off this topic about this time yesterday , was it about Boxer dogs or a boy in boxers ? Oh I have 2 cats , they only chase each other.

[mikebell]

15 hours ago, Lacrimas said:

At that age in my country you can only drive 50cc mopeds 

A dog would bring this down more easily. 

 

Surely everyone (except the Thai Government,) can see that the problem here is the sheer numbers of wild dogs. Besides accidents, often fatal; infections, sometimes fatal; there is the problem of dog dirt/urine everywhere.  After  the Covid precautions of disinfecting hands/temperature checks in shops/compulsory mask wearing; why do Thais allow this Mediaeval practice to continue?