House January 6 committee votes to subpoena Trump during Thursday’s hearing

[g man]

30 minutes ago, pomchop said:

1. the trumpers on here basically say that storming the capitol in an attempt to stop the counting of electoral votes was just a demonstration.

Actually no, you are wrong. It was a demonstration that devolved into a riot.

[Jingthing]

The party of Trump will.probably win the house.

In that case yes they will kill the committee for sure.

But the DOJ, Atlanta, New York will continue and indictment(s)  of Trump are coming.

The.party of trump might impeach Garland and Biden  but they won't have the votes to convict in the senate.

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, g man said:

Actually no, you are wrong. It was a demonstration that devolved into a riot.

It was a violent coup.attempt / insurrection incited by a criminally corrupt ex president who wanted to be and still wants to be dictator. 

[Phoenix Rising]

Former DOJ official says Trump's reaction to the January 6 panel is starting to look like the makings of an insanity defense

 

"In response to the decision, Trump sent a document to the panel that started off with the sentence, "THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION OF 2020 WAS RIGGED AND STOLEN!" and contained multiple baseless claims of election fraud.
"Yeah, so, this is a 14-page screed, Jonathan, that's very hard to follow but it does seem to dig the hole in deeper for Donald Trump," Katyal told MSNBC host Jonathan Capehart.

"I can't see it in any legal way helping him unless he is trying to go for the insanity defense, of which this paper seems, you know, to be some evidence of," Katyal added."

 

Sorry Donny boy! You can't go the insanity route after having touted your "person, woman, man, camera, TV" thing as proof that you're a stable genius.

Or is that in itself so insanely stupid that it might help him????? 

[Phoenix Rising]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

It was a violent coup.attempt / insurrection incited by a criminally corrupt ex president who wanted to be and still wants to be dictator. 

Whatever has or will happen we can rest assured that the spineless cowards in the GOP will do absolutely nothing to prevent any further attacks on democracy nor will they speak up against anything [Trump] says as shown just a couple of days ago when trump fouled the air with anti-semitic drivel.

Not one GOPer spoke up. I'll remember that if they ever come for you...

Edited October 17, 2022 by onthedarkside
name calling and trolling references removed

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Whatever has or will happen we can rest assured that the spineless cowards in the GOP will do absolutely nothing to prevent any further attacks on democracy nor will they speak up against anything [Trump] says as shown just a couple of days ago when trump fouled the air with anti-semitic drivel.

Not one GOPer spoke up. I'll remember that if they ever come for you...

It's even worse than that. The majority of them support the big lie. Most of their candidates are OK with overturning election results they don’t like in future just because their candidate didn't win and they are trying to install officials nationally who will have the power to do that. Now the party of fascism using Putin style tactics. If it was just one man Trump it would pass but Trumpism has been firmly installed for who knows how long.

[metisdead]

Posts in violation of fair use policy have been removed. 

[placeholder]

Former DOJ official says Trump's reaction to the January 6 panel is starting to look like the makings of an insanity defense

Former DOJ official Neal Katyal commented on Donald Trump's 14-page response to the DOJ.
Katyal said he did not think the response would help Trump unless he was trying to plead insanity.
He said Trump's response was "evidence" of an insanity plea.

https://www.businessinsider.com/former-doj-official-trumps-response-jan-6-insanity-defense-2022-10

 

His response starts out like this:

“This memo is being written to express our anger, disappointment, and complaint that with all of the hundreds of millions of dollars spent on what many consider to be a Charade and Witch Hunt, and despite strong and powerful requests, you have not spent even a short moment on examining the massive Election Fraud that took place during the 2020 Presidential Election, and have targeted only those who were, as concerned American Citizens, protesting the Fraud itself,”

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3688097-trump-skirts-testimony-question-in-blistering-14-page-jan-6-response/

[g man]

so this ex DOJ has hypothesized that Trump is using an insanity defence to some undisclosed hypothetical indictment but has no idea what the crime is... Trump has not been accused of any Jan 6 crimes so I don't exactly follow the logic or lack thereof in what katyal's trying to convey here, other than to suggest he thinks Trump is insane?

Edited October 17, 2022 by g man

[placeholder]

18 minutes ago, g man said:

so this ex DOJ has hypothesized that Trump is using an insanity defence to some undisclosed hypothetical indictment but has no idea what the crime is... Trump has not been accused of any Jan 6 crimes so I don't exactly follow the logic or lack thereof in what katyal's trying to convey here, other than to suggest he thinks Trump is insane?

I don't know what you mean by "accused"? Do you mean indicted? He certainly has been accused of committing various crimes on that day. So far no indictments have been sought. And any charges  would likely be more complicated to prove than his alleged violations of the Patriot Act where there's a huge amount of hard physical evidence against him.

As for Jan 6, for one thing he's accused of knowingly violated the law by pressuring Mike Pence to violate the law by obstructing the electoral certification. Pence's top lawyer, Marc Jacobs, said John Eastman admitted in front of Trump that this plan to get Pence to reject the electoral votes violated the law.

Edited October 17, 2022 by placeholder

[g man]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

violations of the Patriot Act where there's a huge amount of hard physical evidence against him.

can you provide some examples of patriot act violations committed by Trump and the evidence to support it.

[placeholder]

24 minutes ago, g man said:

so this ex DOJ has hypothesized that Trump is using an insanity defence to some undisclosed hypothetical indictment but has no idea what the crime is... Trump has not been accused of any Jan 6 crimes so I don't exactly follow the logic or lack thereof in what katyal's trying to convey here, other than to suggest he thinks Trump is insane?

Also, I guess you didn't get it that Katyal is mocking Trump. Trump's response, while it's nuts, doesn't indicate the kind of insanity that will get him time in a psychiatric facility instead of a prison.

Edited October 17, 2022 by placeholder

[g man]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Also, I guess you didn't get it that Katyal is joking. Trump's response, while it's nuts, doesn't indicate the kind of insanity that will get him time in a psychiatric facility instead of a prison.

ahh, next topic...

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, g man said:

can you provide some examples of patriot act violations committed by Trump and the evidence to support it.

Really? Am I about to be told why Trump's possession of government documents isn't a violation of the law because of the Presidential Records Act? 

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, g man said:

ahh, next topic...

You raised the issue of what crimes Trump is accused of committing on Jan 6, I replied quite specifically about one. Apparently, you want to ignore that which is certainly your right.

[g man]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Really? Am I about to be told why Trump's possession of government documents isn't a violation of the law because of the Presidential Records Act? 

you said patriot act, the PRA is not the same.

[placeholder]

Just now, g man said:

you said patriot act, the PRA is not the same.

I know they're not. But some former right wing clerk to some supreme court justice wrote an essay in which he claimed that the Presidential Records Act means that the Patriot Act doesn't apply to the President. It gained some currency with the right wing before expiring somewhere or other.

[g man]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I know they're not. But some former right wing clerk to some supreme court justice wrote an essay in which he claimed that the Presidential Records Act means that the Patriot Act doesn't apply to the President. It gained some currency with the right wing before expiring somewhere or other.

I see, clear as gin.

 

 

[placeholder]

12 minutes ago, g man said:

I see, clear as gin.

 

 

I agree with you. I actually find out about the article from some supporter of Trump here at aseanow.com who put up a link to it in a thread.

Edited October 17, 2022 by placeholder

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, g man said:

 

 

The January 6 hearings have proven there was an organized plot. Did you watch it?

But I get it. The cult of the chief autocratic dictator wannabe will mostly remain unmoved.

 

https://www.american.edu/cas/news/january-6-one-year-later.cfm

 

 

The January 6 Insurrection: One Year Later

AU faculty examine the storming of the US Capitol and the forces behind it

 

"The failed attempt to overturn a legitimately conducted election on January 6, 2021, was not a singular event. This insurrection was part of a protracted, still ongoing assault on American democracy, not by the everyday insurrectionists but by privileged elites set upon maintaining power at any cost."

Edited October 17, 2022 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[g man]

53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The January 6 hearings have proven there was an organized plot

by whom and for what exactly?

Where is the judicial initiative in all this?

 

Edited October 17, 2022 by onthedarkside
unsourced and misinformation claims removed

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, g man said:

by whom and for what exactly?

By a bipartisan committee with countless republican witnesses for the American people that support the constitution and wish to preserve it against enemies foreign and domestic. 

 

In this case a very dark time in American history the most notorious enemy of the constitution was remarkably a president of the United States.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Jingthing

[placeholder]

 The Espionage Act. The one about illegal possession of govt documents.

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, g man said:

"There is also the possibility that the January 6 investigation will be forced to close if the Republican Party wins back control of the House and Senate in November's elections. It is almost certain that a GOP-controlled House would shut down the January 6 investigation at the start of the next term in January 2023.

This also would likely mean that a GOP-controlled House would not seek to enforce the subpoena served against Trump or push for the DoJ to bring an indictment for defying it."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-subpoena-refuse-comply-charged-testify-1752148

 

Thanks for confirming trump is trying to postpone.

[g man]

24 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 The Espionage Act. The one about illegal possession of govt documents.

oh, defiantly not a derivative of the Jan-6 equation then.

The records dispute, espionage! That's real, imagined, a stretch based on what evidence so far reported or leaked?  Trump's many things, espionage is pushing the gamet.

[placeholder]

17 minutes ago, g man said:

oh, defiantly not a derivative of the Jan-6 equation then.

The records dispute, espionage! That's real, imagined, a stretch based on what evidence so far reported or leaked?  Trump's many things, espionage is pushing the gamet.

The thrust of the Justice Depts investigation clearly has to do with Trump's alleged illegal possession of documents. It also looks like there is strong evidence of obstruction of justice. Not only have I never accused Trump of espionage, I'have in this forum frequently disputed those allegations. My take on it has always been that it was just his way of assauaging his hurt feelings and trolling the incoming administration. That and his inability to distinguish what belongs to him and what belongs to the government.

Edited October 17, 2022 by onthedarkside
personal comment removed

[g man]

11 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Thanks for confirming trump is trying to postpone.

postpone what exactly? he is not a member of congress last I checked. He don't make the rules. the GOP oversight members will do what's required to eliminate the partisan playing field and bring the evidence, the real factual details into the foray. Trump has no exposure it seems, and that's because he's not in any way in criminal jeopardy and the evidence supports that.

Edited October 17, 2022 by g man

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, g man said:

postpine what exactly? he is not a member of congress last I checked. He don't make the rules. the GOP oversight members will do what's required to eliminate the partisan playing field and bring the evidence, the real factual details into the foray. Trump has no exposure it seems, and that's because he's not in any way in criminal jeopardy and the evidence supports that.

As has been previously pointed out to you, one potential violation of the law in relation to Jan 6 is pressuring pence to obstruct the counting of the electoral votes. Pence's top lawyer testified he heard John Eastman tell Trump that such an attempt would be illegal.

[g man]

16 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 The thrust of the Justice Depts investigation clearly has to do with Trump's alleged illegal possession of documents. It also looks like there is strong evidence of obstruction of justice. Not only have I never accused Trump of espionage, I'have in this forum frequently disputed those allegations. My take on it has always been that it was just his way of assauaging his hurt feelings and trolling the incoming administration. That and his inability to distinguish what belongs to him and what belongs to the government.

exactly, it's like, well like a pre-fabricated doc and records tangle with NARA. Hardly enough to state its anything otherwise based on the DOJ leaks and evidence presented to date. it's ridiculous on face to castigate Trump as some espionage oriented traitor.... there is ZERO evidence to support that and if there was it would all be over for Trump. BUT he's weathered 6 years of persecution and is smiling like a daisy... I would be honored to have him on my team any day!

[onthedarkside]

Several posts involving a bickering exchange between two members have been removed.