65,000 Thb method for Retirement Visa

[Peterw42]

49 minutes ago, Mickeymaus said:

I know the regulation that if you transfer foreign income in the same year when you got it you will have to pay taxes here. So this is not correct. 

There is no actual regulation that says that, (in a relevant or enforceable way).

3.7 seconds after income hits your account its savings, (not sure how a bank could determine if a dollar was paid into an account this year or last year)

Its just an obvious statement, if anyone ever asked (they wont), you would say its savings not income.

Thai immigration are not the tax office. Nobody is looking inside your account to track down the source and circumstances of money arriving into your account, and then trying to tax it.. To pay tax in Thailand would involve registering for tax, doing tax returns etc. Even then, there is nobody tagging incoming funds as income/savings.

Overriding all of this, Thailand has Tax treaties with many countries, UK, Au etc. to ensure money is only taxed in one country. If some money has a tax liability, it would be taxed in the country it originates in, and have no further tax liability in Thailand.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Peterw42

[Mickeymaus]

Here an extensive explanation of pension and taxes for Norwegians from the Thai government. It might give some ideas for other countries too. It is a PDF file that will be downloaded. 

 

https://www.rd.go.th/fileadmin/download/nation/Norwegian_answer.pdf

[Longwood50]

You can use either the 800,000 baht method.  That is having that amount in a Thai bank for a minimum of 2 months or the 65,000 baht method, making transfers into a Thai bank for 12 consecutive months of at least 65,000 baht.  

I got an embassy letter for my first visa from the USA embassy that no longer does them.  If your embassy still provides income verification affidavits you can use that instead of the baht minimums.  If you go with the 65,000 baht per month it is important that your transfers show up as FIT.  Foreign Transfers.  On transferwise it requires you code the transfer stating it is for long term stay in Thailand.  Otherwise it shows up as a domestic transfer.

 

 

[blazes]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Does not have to be direct transfer of pension.

Just needs to be 65k+ every month transfered from overseas into your Thai bank account. 

It's been 5 years since I applied for a retirement visa of one year, but at that time I only needed to show (bank letter and notarised) the Thai consulate that I did indeed have an income of at least  65,000 baht per month.   There was no stipulation that you  had to deposit the money in a Thai bank (I did not in fact have one, anyway).

 

Subsequently the Canadian consulate in Chiang Mai gave me an income letter to conform with the (65k monthly income) requirement for a 1-year  extension.

 

In other words, if you  are applying from outside the country, is it not the case that you don't need to send money to a Thai bank account?

[Balance]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

I had a protracted discussion with immigration and this point arose. They said the only time you can use the reduced time allowance on income is if it is a genuine first extension, as opposed to first extension on another visa.

Obviously a discretionary issue so interpretation will vary and generally speaking the 800K(or 400K for marriage) will prevail as the majority that have obtained another Non O will have in all likelihood interrupted funding their Thai account.

Does the use of the income method after the first year also apply to a marriage visa?

 

Does it make a difference if Bangkok Bank could issue a letter stating that I had five years of monthly payments from U.S. Social Security before my Thai wife and I went back to the states for 5 years to satisfy requirement for her to receive survivor's benefits?

  

[spambot]

11 hours ago, flexomike said:

If you have twelve months worth of deposits before your extension than you can use the income method, that is what I will be doing in December,

Ahh - Interesting.

 

A friend of mine in the UK who retires in 14 months time will move to Thailand. He does not want to use the 800K in Bank method, but rather the 65K transfer from the UK every month into his existing Thai Bank account.

 

He didn't know if he did start the transfers now for the regular 65K if he will be able to convert a Visa exempt to the O application, based upon the income method when he arrives.

 

Obviously 13 x 65K = 845K and hence 800K in Bank would be satisfied. However he might have to send back to UK the majority of these payments through DeeMoney in 9 months time.

 

Based upon what you identified - If he simply continues paying the 65K he will not need to find the 800K when he arrives - Thanks for that.

[flexomike]

25 minutes ago, spambot said:

Ahh - Interesting.

 

A friend of mine in the UK who retires in 14 months time will move to Thailand. He does not want to use the 800K in Bank method, but rather the 65K transfer from the UK every month into his existing Thai Bank account.

 

He didn't know if he did start the transfers now for the regular 65K if he will be able to convert a Visa exempt to the O application, based upon the income method when he arrives.

 

Obviously 13 x 65K = 845K and hence 800K in Bank would be satisfied. However he might have to send back to UK the majority of these payments through DeeMoney in 9 months time.

 

Based upon what you identified - If he simply continues paying the 65K he will not need to find the 800K when he arrives - Thanks for that.

if he is going from a visa exempt to applying for an O he will have to have 800,000 in the bank for the 90 day visa, when he applies for the extension if he has twelve months of transfers of 65,000 or more than he can use the monthly method

[spambot]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

There is no actual regulation that says that, (in a relevant or enforceable way).

3.7 seconds after income hits your account its savings, (not sure how a bank could determine if a dollar was paid into an account this year or last year)

Its just an obvious statement, if anyone ever asked (they wont), you would say its savings not income.

Thai immigration are not the tax office. Nobody is looking inside your account to track down the source and circumstances of money arriving into your account, and then trying to tax it.. To pay tax in Thailand would involve registering for tax, doing tax returns etc. Even then, there is nobody tagging incoming funds as income/savings.

Overriding all of this, Thailand has Tax treaties with many countries, UK, Au etc. to ensure money is only taxed in one country. If some money has a tax liability, it would be taxed in the country it originates in, and have no further tax liability in Thailand.

Yup - correct Peterw42

 

It is unlikely Immigration would be interested.

 

The time when a transfer of funds might be scrutinised is if claiming withholding tax at a Thailand Income tax office where a specific officer separate to the claim officer can ask questions on Tax of earnings based upon transferred fund sources, especially for expats. 

 

If you are unlucky to be asked, when answering you can claim to have two bank accounts in your home country - One you use for all financial payments (this can include earned income) for a previous year then at the end of a full tax and either some or all of the funds are transferred into the second account. These funds in the second account are then used as the source which is transferred into to your Thailand account. No retrospective previous years of income can be taxed when paid into your home Bank account for a previous year. Basically this ensures that no income has been mixed into the account that has been used for the transfer in the current tax year and hence no further questions about taxable income should be made.

[spambot]

18 minutes ago, flexomike said:

if he is going from a visa exempt to applying for an O he will have to have 800,000 in the bank for the 90 day visa, when he applies for the extension if he has twelve months of transfers of 65,000 or more than he can use the monthly method

Thanks flexomike

 

That is a very good point!

[wwest5829]

I won’t be testing my plan until April 2023 when I return to Thailand. Currently O-A Visa (Retirement) for over a decade with monthly income method over the required 65,000 baht. Plan is to fly for a visit to US with Thai Wife and Stepdaughter. Returning to Thailand on April 24, as it is a RT ticket, I do not anticipate any “onward ticket”. Arrive Visa Exempt (purposely allowing O-A Visa to expire as there is no re-entry permit). Go through the Visa Exempt, 90 day, year extension for the “O” Visa (retirement). I’ll report on this upon return (as we cannot tell what changes may take place, in the meantime)..

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, wwest5829 said:

Arrive Visa Exempt (purposely allowing O-A Visa to expire as there is no re-entry permit). Go through the Visa Exempt, 90 day, year extension for the “O” Visa (retirement)

You will need to show 800k in your Thai bank account for the non O and if you cannot show 12 months of previous 65k transfers you will need to use money in bank method for extension. 

[wwest5829]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You will need to show 800k in your Thai bank account for the non O and if you cannot show 12 months of previous 65k transfers you will need to use money in bank method for extension. 

A year of 65,000 a month transfers should do it (been here over a decade on this method). At least that is what I have been told by one Chiang Mai Immigration officer. I anticipate no issue. I also have 400,000+ baht in a separate account and could go the marriage reason for the “O” Visa as a fallback.

[mikem20]

I had always assumed that you could use the same requirements for both the non O 90 days visa and the subsequent 1 year extension, but after reading this thread more closely, I'm beginning to think that is not true. Is it the case that you can only get the non O 90 days visa with 800K in the bank? It's not possible with 12 months of transfers? But the first 1 year extension is possible with income method?
And the non O 90 days visa is the only path to getting 1 year extension, right?

[EVENKEEL]

5 minutes ago, mikem20 said:

I had always assumed that you could use the same requirements for both the non O 90 days visa and the subsequent 1 year extension, but after reading this thread more closely, I'm beginning to think that is not true. Is it the case that you can only get the non O 90 days visa with 800K in the bank? It's not possible with 12 months of transfers? But the first 1 year extension is possible with income method?
And the non O 90 days visa is the only path to getting 1 year extension, right?

The 90 day Non O requires 800K in the Thai bank, then the extension you can go the 12 month of 65+K/mo route. I did the same recently.

[flexomike]

8 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

I won’t be testing my plan until April 2023 when I return to Thailand. Currently O-A Visa (Retirement) for over a decade with monthly income method over the required 65,000 baht. Plan is to fly for a visit to US with Thai Wife and Stepdaughter. Returning to Thailand on April 24, as it is a RT ticket, I do not anticipate any “onward ticket”. Arrive Visa Exempt (purposely allowing O-A Visa to expire as there is no re-entry permit). Go through the Visa Exempt, 90 day, year extension for the “O” Visa (retirement). I’ll report on this upon return (as we cannot tell what changes may take place, in the meantime)..

That will be no problem for you, but when you apply for the O Visa within Thailand you will have to have 800,000 baht in a Thai bank on the day of applying, this also has to have been shown that it came from outside of Thailand, when you do your extension you can show twelve months of over 65,000 baht transferred to a Thai bank account.

[flexomike]

24 minutes ago, mikem20 said:

I had always assumed that you could use the same requirements for both the non O 90 days visa and the subsequent 1 year extension, but after reading this thread more closely, I'm beginning to think that is not true. Is it the case that you can only get the non O 90 days visa with 800K in the bank? It's not possible with 12 months of transfers? But the first 1 year extension is possible with income method?
And the non O 90 days visa is the only path to getting 1 year extension, right?

If doing it within Thailand that would be correct