Mini Split Aircon for darkroom

[Ade1969]

Hi I’m just about to start building our house in the east of Thailand. I’m a keen analog photographer so I’m having my own darkroom. So that I can work at anytime I’m having an aircon unit fitted. I’ve decided on a mini split unit as it should remove any chance of light entering the room. Just wondering if these units are widely available in Thailand ?

Thanks in advance of any replies. 
Ade

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, Ade1969 said:

Just wondering if these units are widely available in Thailand ?

They are everywhere!

Is there anything special about an AC in a dark room?

[Boomer6969]

20 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

They are everywhere!

Is there anything special about an AC in a dark room?

My guess is that have to work in the dark. But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

Edited October 30, 2022 by Boomer6969

[bluejets]

11 hours ago, Ade1969 said:

I’ve decided on a mini split unit

When you approach the sellers for a quote, might be a good idea to take the room size (L,W and H), which side of the house it will be on (N,S,E,W)and any extra heat loads you might generate.

Otherwise, if you ask for a mini split, you might get the "no have" response.

[Ade1969]

38 minutes ago, bluejets said:

When you approach the sellers for a quote, might be a good idea to take the room size (L,W and H), which side of the house it will be on (N,S,E,W)and any extra heat loads you might generate.

Otherwise, if you ask for a mini split, you might get the "no have" response.

Thanks for the information I’ll definitely have the dimensions & directions of the room when getting quotes. 

[Ade1969]

10 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

My guess is that have to work in the dark. But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

The Chemicals need to be kept at 20c so being able to control the room temperature is important. Thanks for reminding me to cover lighted switches 

[Crossy]

2 minutes ago, Ade1969 said:

Thanks for the information I’ll definitely have the dimensions & directions of the room when getting quotes. 

 

In metres (meters) please.

 

I had to actually Google "mini-split" to make sure my understanding was correct, but pretty well every A/C on sale here is of this kind, just ask for "aircon" and you're good to go.

 

The standard Thai "guesstimate" for sizing is 600-700 BTU/m² of floor area, since you need 20C I'd be looking at something towards the upper end of that range and definitely an "inverter" type.

 

I would also insist on a copper heat-exchanger, a lot of the cheaper units use aluminium. I'm not sure how that would react to any airborne chemicals (it's a loooong time since I did any home processing but I do recall some of the stuff was pretty noxious).

[Elkski]

The units have a condensate drain line need. So an outside wall is good or even a nearby shower or utility drain can work. I would say this is the most common AC type in Thailand. 

 

They call them "ductless mini splits" here in the US.  I have never understood mini splits.  I installed a 3 head LG red system myself in a mother in law apartment.   For 7500$ I believe.  I had 1 guy quote me 15 k. I asked how he got that and he said 5k each zone.  The heads are under 500 $ each of I recall.   I installed an 18k, 9h, &7k. 

Edited October 30, 2022 by Elkski
For Crossy

[sometimewoodworker]

12 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

My guess is that have to work in the dark. But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

You don’t need the tape if you have some Daikin units as they can switch the lights off.

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

They call them "ductless mini splits" here in the US.  I have never understood mini splits.

“Ductless” because each unit provides cooling whereas in the USA the overwhelming kind of AC has 1 large cooling unit per house and blows cooled or heated air through ducts.

 

“Mini” because each individual AC here is designed to cool 1 room so they are smaller than needed to cool 1 house.

 

”split” as the outdoor unit is separate from the indoor cooling unit.

 

The USA has individual small combined AC units known as window ACs The benefits of these are they are reasonable simple to install and need no ducking or pipes. The disadvantages are numerous, they include blocking a window and being noisy. 
The standard AC unit here and in many other parts of the world is just called an AC because there are few giant whole house units or small window units sold as there is no market for them..

[sometimewoodworker]

1 hour ago, Elkski said:

I installed a 3 head LG red system myself in a mother in law apartment.   For 7500$ I believe.

In Thailand 3 units would have cost between $1,600 (for inexpensive ones) to $4,000 for high end units, those are prices for all 3 units

[wimpy]

mine.

[Dazinoz]

14 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

My guess is that have to work in the dark. But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

I rent house and bedroom AC just replaced by owner with a "CentralAir" brand. I think they maybe a Thai brand but not sure. They have a very large LED which displays mode and temp setting when on and a red  large red LED when off. Especially when running the display is very bright. The good thing is it can be turned off from the remote and no indicator lights on unit. Could be useful if you needed at very low light at times. No idea as I have never done developing.

[Dazinoz]

15 hours ago, Ade1969 said:

Hi I’m just about to start building our house in the east of Thailand. I’m a keen analog photographer so I’m having my own darkroom. So that I can work at anytime I’m having an aircon unit fitted. I’ve decided on a mini split unit as it should remove any chance of light entering the room. Just wondering if these units are widely available in Thailand ?

Thanks in advance of any replies. 
Ade

Split systems everywhere in Thailand. I used to instal in Australia and never heard them called mini split. Just ask for room air conditioner. Never seen a window/through wall mount one here so not sure if sold.

 

Is the room on the outer wall? If not just remember that the refrigerant supply and return lines need to be run to the unit and could cost more to install. As someone else mentioned a drain also is needed. I have seen drain pumps in Australia but not sure available here.

[lopburi3]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You don’t need the tape if you have some Daikin units as they can switch the lights off.

Really?  No such function indicated on my remote - or is it internal?

[lopburi3]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

Really?  No such function indicated on my remote - or is it internal?

Noted after the fact you said "some".  Mine has no such option.

[hansnl]

2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

“Ductless” because each unit provides cooling whereas in the USA the overwhelming kind of AC has 1 large cooling unit per house and blows cooled or heated air through ducts.

 

“Mini” because each individual AC here is designed to cool 1 room so they are smaller than needed to cool 1 house.

 

”split” as the outdoor unit is separate from the indoor cooling unit.

 

The USA has individual small combined AC units known as window ACs The benefits of these are they are reasonable simple to install and need no ducking or pipes. The disadvantages are numerous, they include blocking a window and being noisy. 
The standard AC unit here and in many other parts of the world is just called an AC because there are few giant whole house units or small window units sold as there is no market for them..

It seems, AC friendly installer told me, there is a growing market for the so-called window units, although most are installed in a hole made in the wall.

Ease of installing and choice of lower output (below 9000 BTU) are the reasons.

Even available through Lazada and Shopee......

 

[sometimewoodworker]

38 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Really?  No such function indicated on my remote - or is it internal?

 

37 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Noted after the fact you said "some".  Mine has no such option.

The option to turn the indicator lights off is not a button on the remote. There are menus available that are explained in the manual so you need the remote and the manual to follow the process. It is quite possible that your unit does in fact have that option, I don’t pretend to know anything but the functions of our unit. This is the section of the instruction booklet that shows how to turn them off

 

 SWMBO has decreed that the low setting is good enough 

 

note I can’t read Thai but monkey see, monkey do ( ???? ) works for much of the manual  

Edited October 31, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Boomer6969]

4 hours ago, Ade1969 said:

The Chemicals need to be kept at 20c so being able to control the room temperature is important. Thanks for reminding me to cover lighted switches 

You may also consider air renewal, as split air AC don't contribute to that. As far as I know some chemicals used in photography are mildly toxic when breathed in.

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, hansnl said:

It seems, AC friendly installer told me, there is a growing market for the so-called window units, although most are installed in a hole made in the wall.

Ease of installing and choice of lower output (below 9000 BTU) are the reasons.

Even available through Lazada and Shopee......

 

Window units have always been available here and were the normal install 50 years ago - but Thailand was one of the first in SEA to turn to split units and has never looked back - even the PI (where they import cheaply from USA) are using split systems for almost all new installs.  In the USA, where only needed 3 or 4 months a year they still rule - but even in USA most people have been going central duct system where both heating and AC are required.

[sometimewoodworker]

14 minutes ago, Boomer6969 said:

You may also consider air renewal, as split air AC don't contribute to that. As far as I know some chemicals used in photography are mildly toxic when breathed in.

Having got close to a degree in photography (l spent about 6 years in the darkroom) I would not bother much with that, our dark room that was purpose built, was intensively used for about 8 hours a day, the majority of the work was done in open trays there was probably a bathroom style extractor fan but it certainly didn’t run much of the time 

Edited October 31, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Having got close to a degree in photography I would not bother much with that, our dark room that was purpose built, was intensively used for about 8 hours a day, the majority of the work was done in open trays there was probably a bathroom style extractor fan but it certainly didn’t run much of the time 

Indeed that is what I used as a teenager - small fan but made for darkroom (blackout).  AC window units I have used all leaked light and as for the air exchange - would not wish that on anyone - they attract all sorts of vermin excrements.  

[emanphoto]

I can't help RE:AC units but I can say that maintaining chemistry at 20°C 24-7 isn't necessary.  Last darkroom was in Chicago and temps varied widely there, and I only worried about closing the door off from the heat source in winter and possibly freezing them.  I set up 3 different darkrooms in Chicago so that I could do conventional B&W as well as historical processes.  Cooler is certainly better but 27 should be OK long term.

 

That said, even dry chemistry will go bad fast here.  I shipped my darkroom from the US here and lots of chemistry went bad just sitting in a cabinet  Ferric ammonium citrate turned to goo, etc etc.  I'd rec a fridge or some such for paper and dry chemistry at least.  As I sold off my darkroom kit here, I asked the Thai photogs buying from me what they did to keep paper stable and they said refrigerators. Keeping an AC running 24-7 in the darkroom would be darn expensive.

 

I have no real-world experience setting up OR using a darkroom here, but heat and humidity here are a beast for chemistry, film, and paper. 

[keithkarmann]

16 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

My guess is that have to work in the dark. But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

You can turn off the indicator lights on some units.

[dddave]

6 hours ago, Ade1969 said:

Thanks for the information I’ll definitely have the dimensions & directions of the room when getting quotes. 

I built several darkrooms during my analog days.  I found smaller was always better, like a good single chef kitchen. Just good separation between wet & dry side.  With direct AC, dust control, especially when drying film could be an issue. Some AC units have pretty good dust filters.  Worth looking into. I used to dry my film in hanging clothes storage bags with zipper opening.  Worked great.

It would always amaze me. No matter how much attention I paid to making it light-tight, sit in there with lights off for 15 minutes and it's like "Starry-Starry Night", little pinpoints everywhere.

[Muhendis]

17 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

But seriously OP should buy some black sticky tape to cover the indicator lights.

If my memory serves me well, dark rooms only need to be absolutely dark when handling unprocessed film (Film handling would normally be done in a light proof bag). Normally the room would be lit with amber/red subdued lighting so if the indicator lights on the air con. are red, they are probably ok.

[digbeth]

3 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

Is the room on the outer wall? If not just remember that the refrigerant supply and return lines need to be run to the unit and could cost more to install. As someone else mentioned a drain also is needed. I have seen drain pumps in Australia but not sure available here.

drain pumps are available in Thailand too, they're usually for commercial or in-ceiling install and multi split units some do come as optional parts from the manufacturer, but most common one looks like fish tank pump and a plastic box to catch the drain that you retro-fit to units 

Edited October 31, 2022 by digbeth

[sometimewoodworker]

2 hours ago, Muhendis said:

If my memory serves me well, dark rooms only need to be absolutely dark when handling unprocessed film (Film handling would normally be done in a light proof bag). Normally the room would be lit with amber/red subdued lighting so if the indicator lights on the air con. are red, they are probably ok.

Your memory is correct, however the majority of indicator lights in the AC units are the worst possible colour, green.

[Ade1969]

On 10/31/2022 at 1:54 AM, wimpy said:

mine.

That’s really nice. Can I ask where did you get the sink ? Do you have a metal top on the table on the dry side ? Final question did you have to seal to remove any light leakage around the aircon? Thanks for posting 

[wimpy]

4 hours ago, Ade1969 said:

That’s really nice. Can I ask where did you get the sink ? Do you have a metal top on the table on the dry side ? Final question did you have to seal to remove any light leakage around the aircon? Thanks for posting 

Had the sink made by a stainless shop. The countertop on the dry side is made from Viva board. No light leakage. Only one small hole for the pipes, which is hidden.