Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Good for you old chap.

 

 

Not old. Getting on but not old.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Are you suggesting I'm a driver?

 

If so, once again, you are wrong. I started as a healthcare assistant, then support worker for 2 quadriplegics and am now a welfare liason officer. All with no previous experience. I've had induction days, on job training and online training. Started with shadow shifts then as part of a double now as a single carer. Taken the tests, both online and via assessment at work and passed. 

 

Like I said, if I can do it, so can anyone. Just need to get off your ar$e, stop thinking you are entitled to financial help and benefits, get working and earning. Simple.

Can you still do that these days though ?

These days they seem more stringent with qualifications than they were in the past 

[ozimoron]

Just now, Mac Mickmanus said:

Can you still do that these days though ?

These days they seem more stringent with qualifications than they were in the past 

I'd have thought they'd roll out the red carpet for anyone willing to do that work, subject to a background check.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

I'd have thought they'd roll out the red carpet for anyone willing to do that work, subject to a background check.

 

Yes, I suppose with Palliative care , you cant really go wrong .

Like, the patient is going to die anyway

[ozimoron]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, I suppose with Palliative care , you cant really go wrong .

Like, the patient is going to die anyway

Looking after quadriplegics is not palliative care.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, puchooay said:

Oh dear. How sad.

 

Never mind. 

 

It's become a sad situation whereby personal, current experience is not believed because one cannot provide a link. Even if the disbelievers have not had experience for over 10 years.

 

 

Well I can provide a link. Lots of them.

 

Professionally qualified clinical staff make up over half (53.0%) of the FTE HCHS workforce.   https://digital.nhs.uk/data-and-information/publications/statistical/nhs-workforce-statistics/october-2021 of approx 1.2 million. 

 

Nurses & health visitors (jobs that both require at least training) then make up a further 350,00 jobs.  https://www.gov.uk/government/news/record-numbers-of-doctors-and-nurses-working-in-the-nhs 

That's approx. 990k of the 1.2m or better said as 85% of the total workforce. 

'The number of posts lying vacant across the NHS in England has reached a “staggering” record high of 132,139 –

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/sep/01/nhs-vacancies-in-england-at-staggering-new-high-as-almost-10-of-posts-empty

 

That means that since 85% of these vacanicies require either professional qualifications and/or training then only 20,000 or so require 'no prior experience or training', a far cry from your oriiginal '50000 vacancies that anyone can do with no prior experience or training'. 

 

One of us used to do this for a living. It isn't you.

 

[RayC]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

How you know so? This was the time of the build up to the EU itself and hoped for adoption of the Euro. Jackals like Major were quick to form the pack that killed Maggie once it was clear she wanted no further UK integration with the EU. Far easier to stop Maggie than stop the EU train.  

My first paragraph is a fact. Any EU treaty requires unanimous support. The UK could have vetoed the Maastricht Treaty.

 

The remainder of my post is opinion as is your post.

[puchooay]

22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Can you still do that these days though ?

These days they seem more stringent with qualifications than they were in the past 

My most recent job start was 6 weeks ago do, yes, can be done. Is done on a regular basis. More than half of the Healthcare assistants I deal eith are on their first job in the field.

[johnnybangkok]

20 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Are you suggesting I'm a driver?

 

If so, once again, you are wrong. I started as a healthcare assistant, then support worker for 2 quadriplegics and am now a welfare liason officer. All with no previous experience. I've had induction days, on job training and online training. Started with shadow shifts then as part of a double now as a single carer. Taken the tests, both online and via assessment at work and passed. 

 

Like I said, if I can do it, so can anyone. Just need to get off your ar$e, stop thinking you are entitled to financial help and benefits, get working and earning. Simple.

So in other words you had no previos experience but you were extensively trained. A far cry from your original statement of '50,000 vacancies anyone can do with no prior experience or training'

 

Look. You seem like a nice guy but as a welfare liason officer, there is no way you can understand all of the complexities of the 350 different NHS careers and the requirements of so many of them. I did. It was what I literally did for a living for many years, so I know that many can join as a healthcare assistant but I also know the the low entry salary prohibits a lot of people from applying.

 

But look, I agree with the sentiment. If someone has the choice between the dole and a  healthcare assistant, then they should take the healthcare assistant job but so many Brits simply don't want to which leads us nicely back to why getting out the EU was a cr@p idea because those roles where very happily taken up by EU workers. Spoiled Brits on the dole is NOT a new phenomenom. It's been around for decades.

[puchooay]

13 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

One of us used to do this for a living. It isn't

Quite right. One, you, used to fo it.

 

One, I, do it now.

 

You have missed support workers, domicilary care staff, care home staff and hospital HCA off your list.

 

Easily makes 50000 jobs that anyone without experience and do.

[puchooay]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

So in other words you had no previos experience but you were extensively trained. A far cry from your original statement of '50,000 vacancies anyone can do with no prior experience or training'

So, are you saying you now understand the difference between training on the job and training before applying? I hope so as I only referred to one type.

 

The lowest paid where I work are on over £11 an hour. More at weekends. Paid holiday and company pension. 

 

The higher earners, not at management level, have the same benefits but are on nearer £13 an hour. Good money.

[johnnybangkok]

6 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Quite right. One, you, used to fo it.

 

One, I, do it now.

 

You have missed support workers, domicilary care staff, care home staff and hospital HCA off your list.

 

Easily makes 50000 jobs that anyone without experience and do.

Provide a link with facts and figures rather than just anecdotal stuff and I'll happily concede.

 

And by the way, I'm still in the business and still recruiting in the healthcare business. Just in Thailand.

[puchooay]

7 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Provide a link with facts and figures rather than just anecdotal stuff and I'll happily concede.

 

And by the way, I'm still in the business and still recruiting in the healthcare business. Just in Thailand.

I have no idea about Healthcare recruitment in Thailand. Therefore, I will not question you on the matter or suggest you are exaggerating or making up figures.

 

I suggest you do the same with what I say about Healthcare recruitment in UK in the present day.

[johnnybangkok]

4 minutes ago, puchooay said:

So, are you saying you now understand the difference between training on the job and training before applying? I hope so as I only referred to one type.

 

The lowest paid where I work are on over £11 an hour. More at weekends. Paid holiday and company pension. 

 

The higher earners, not at management level, have the same benefits but are on nearer £13 an hour. Good money.

Of course I understand the difference between 'training on the job and training before applying; .Thanks for the condescention.

It still doesn't consitute your original statement of '50,000 vacancies anyone can do with no prior experience or training. I''ll say it's a maximum of 20,000 (and I'm being generous) the other 110,000 vacancies currently available require some sort of experience or training. Christ, 35,000 of that is nurses alone.

 

And you quoting hourly rates is irrelevant as I actually agree with you. We might not quite agree it's 'good money' but it's certainly better than dole money.

 

 

[johnnybangkok]

Just now, puchooay said:

I have no idea about Healthcare recruitment in Thailand. Therefore, I will not question you on the matter or suggest you are exaggerating or making up figures.

 

I suggest you do the same with what I say about Healthcare recruitment in UK in the present day.

Provide a link then! 

Extraodinary statements require extraordinary proof. That's how these forums work; he who can come up with the verifiable figures, wins! It's not just a 'trust me I know' type of situation. 

I've provided facts and figures. How about you show what you've got?

[puchooay]

2 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Of course I understand the difference between 'training on the job and training before applying; .Thanks for the condescention.

It still doesn't consitute your original statement of '50,000 vacancies anyone can do with no prior experience or training. I''ll say it's a maximum of 20,000 (and I'm being generous) the other 110,000 vacancies currently available require some sort of experience or training. Christ, 35,000 of that is nurses alone.

 

And you quoting hourly rates is irrelevant as I actually agree with you. We might not quite agree it's 'good money' but it's certainly better than dole money.

 

 

The rates are quite a lot better than most of the jobs available to those with no experience. Add to that the added benefits it is more of a career option than just a job.

 

You still seem to be ignoring a large part of the healthcare industry. You keep going on about nurses and those with qualifications but ignoring those without.

 

The short fall of carers in care homes alone out strips your guesstimates.

[puchooay]

3 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

wins

Sorry.

 

I wasn't aware it was a competition.

 

If it was, it's only you and one other that questions my figures. That against a lot more that don't.

 

I guess that would make me the winner. ????????????

[Bluespunk]

16 minutes ago, puchooay said:

Sorry.

 

I wasn't aware it was a competition.

 

If it was, it's only you and one other that questions my figures. That against a lot more that don't.

 

I guess that would make me the winner. ????????????

Lot of neither challenging nor accepting your figures.
 

Doesn’t mean we agree with you. 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Bluespunk
Spelling typos

[itsari]

17 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

All peachy then.

 

Until you need a Dentist, a GP appointment, the Police to attend a crime in progress, care in old age, a job that pays a living wage, an affordable home.

 

All peachy, and when it’s not there are food banks used by working people who can’t afford food.

Superficial dribble 

[kwilco]

28 minutes ago, itsari said:

Superficial dribble 

How do you see that s superficial?

[Chomper Higgot]

6 hours ago, itsari said:

Superficial dribble 

There’s absolutely nothing superficial about not being able to find a de study when you need one, not a doctor and certainly nothing superficial about police not attending crimes.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/29/2022 at 1:21 AM, johnnybangkok said:

Care to back that up with some peer reviewed or factual evidence?

I used to run a recruitment company in the UK that focused on healthcare (with the NHS as our biggest client) and I can absolutely gaurantee you there was VERY FEW jobs 'that anyone can do with no prior experience or training'.

Maybe things have changed a lot in the last 10 years so I'm up for being re-educated on the matter, but if you'll forgive me, it'll take slightly more than just your own personal opinion.

While saying "no training" is obviously wrong, many jobs can be done with a minimal amount.

 

From my unfortunate experience in an NHS hospital for major surgery, I can state that the cleaning was done by very poorly trained people, and some of the nurses appeared to be lacking in the "training" department, ie they were incompetent.

I can't comment on the Drs so much as I don't remember seeing them much post surgery. They certainly weren't concerned with my progress, and I ended up having to go back for more surgery.

Actually, my hospital and post op care were so bad that I'd opt for anything other than surgery if I could go back to before the operation.

[Kwasaki]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

While saying "no training" is obviously wrong, many jobs can be done with a minimal amount.

 

From my unfortunate experience in an NHS hospital for major surgery, I can state that the cleaning was done by very poorly trained people, and some of the nurses appeared to be lacking in the "training" department, ie they were incompetent.

I can't comment on the Drs so much as I don't remember seeing them much post surgery. They certainly weren't concerned with my progress, and I ended up having to go back for more surgery.

Actually, my hospital and post op care were so bad that I'd opt for anything other than surgery if I could go back to before the operation.

I think what is wrong with someone and what the hospital is like in certain areas comes into it, as of years ago. 

 

I found the NHS 25 years ago excellent and apparently under funded understaffed as usual.

 

They saved my life so while the UK is in this financial mess obviously will make things worse for NHS. 

 

Bickering about the situation is pointless.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I think what is wrong with someone and what the hospital is like in certain areas comes into it, as of years ago. 

 

I found the NHS 25 years ago excellent and apparently under funded understaffed as usual.

 

They saved my life so while the UK is in this financial mess obviously will make things worse for NHS. 

 

Bickering about the situation is pointless.

Actually, fixing the NHS would be easy, but politically hard. The problems are of managers and of politics.

Eliminating the deadwood in management would go a long way to fixing it, but who in politics would do that?

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Actually, fixing the NHS would be easy, but politically hard. The problems are of managers and of politics.

Eliminating the deadwood in management would go a long way to fixing it, but who in politics would do that?

My daughter is a paramedic and still studying and is reluctantly going to have to join the strike along with her colleges.

 

It has got to the point for her that if she doesn't do overtime she cannot meet her rent or even manage a basic lifestyle.

 

I don't know how that section of the NHS is managed, all I know is she was interviewed by a working senior paramedic not office manager as such and hire by him, so it sounds that department is run better. 

 

They have many applications for the job who are rejected after being interviewed.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by Kwasaki

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/30/2022 at 5:26 PM, Kwasaki said:

They saved my life so while the UK is in this financial mess obviously will make things worse for NHS. 

At this point in time I doubt anything could make things worse for the NHS. There are literally decades of incompetence to overcome.

 

As an example of managerial corruption I can mention that in the hospital I worked at they acquired a new top manager, and the first thing he did was commandeer the visitors waiting room to give himself a larger office.

 

When Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on the NHS the hospital I worked at used the money to create an extra 2 completely un necessary nurse managers.

 

 

[roo860]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

At this point in time I doubt anything could make things worse for the NHS. There are literally decades of incompetence to overcome.

 

As an example of managerial corruption I can mention that in the hospital I worked at they acquired a new top manager, and the first thing he did was commandeer the visitors waiting room to give himself a larger office.

 

When Gordon Brown wasted 6 billion quid on the NHS the hospital I worked at used the money to create an extra 2 completely un necessary nurse managers.

 

 

Diversity Managers now mate on £100,000 plus a year!

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, roo860 said:

Diversity Managers now mate on £100,000 plus a year!

Is it any wonder the NHS is in strife?

[kwilco]

The NHS is facing a crisis like never before. Since Brexit between 20 and 30 thousand EU workers have left the NHS and recruitment rates have plunged as foreign workers can't get visas.

This is exacerbated further as care-workers and associated workers have also left in similar numbers.

 

The result is that ambulance waiting times at A7E have gone from 15 minutes to ver an hour - patients are left waiting in corridors for up to 24 hours. With 999 calls instead of an 8 minute arrival response callers are actually being put on hold like they were ruining a bank or IT supplier!.

the UK is quite literally th sick man of Europe. - again!

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

My daughter is a paramedic and still studying and is reluctantly going to have to join the strike along with her colleges.

 

It has got to the point for her that if she doesn't do overtime she cannot meet her rent or even manage a basic lifestyle.

 

I don't know how that section of the NHS is managed, all I know is she was interviewed by a working senior paramedic not office manager as such and hire by him, so it sounds that department is run better. 

 

They have many applications for the job who are rejected after being interviewed.

 

 

Decades ago when I started nursing, I had considered being ambulance driver or working in A and E. Given the <deleted> people they have to deal with now, there is no way I'd even think about it today.

 

It was a different world back then, when most people had some consideration for others.