Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

more and more critics of Brexit are being reported - basically as the cloud of covid nd other "excuses" are stripped away the stark reality remains.....

 

Badly referenced woffle and mostly 'she-said'. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the bit where its says that Brexit was adding/contributing  to the soaring price rises and the main cause was Ukraine and Covid ?

Good, you admit brexit has made the situation worse. Progress for you. 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:00 PM, superal said:

Regarding the UK NHS . The fact is that the nurses have been underpaid for many years . To enable the service to continue working over the last 20 years or more , the government sought foreign nurses who were happy to work in the NHS as they were being paid very much more that they were getting in their home countries . I believe they were working on 3 or 4 year visas and had to return to their mother countries when the visas expired . So that is one reason on the lack of nurses but another reason is migration . Last year there was a net migration of 504,000 . However that does not tell the whole story because there were 1,064,000 immigrants and 504,000 emigrants . In the last year 2000 doctors and 40,000 nurses left the UK to countries such as Australia , New Zealand and the U.S.A. where their profession is well paid and respected . Furthermore some of the NHS nurses who left , went and worked for agencies and doubled their income but ironically were then working again within the NHS as agency nurses at a huge cost to the government .   The NHS is in danger of collapsing and it needs urgent help with cross party involvement , not just the Tories who have not managed it well . As a Tory , I am embarrassed with the lack of attention given by the government over the last 12 years , no excuses as it has been going down the pan for some time . 

Just to address a few of the points you make.

 

the government sought foreign nurses who were happy to work in the NHS as they were being paid very much more that they were getting in their home countries

I went to work in the NHS as I got better pay and more holidays than in NZ.

 

In the last year 2000 doctors and 40,000 nurses left the UK to countries such as Australia , New Zealand and the U.S.A. where their profession is well paid and respected

The nurses won't be going to NZ for the pay as NZ nurses are leaving to work in Australia where they get better wages. They may move to NZ for other reasons.

I left NZ to work overseas as NZ nurses were paid very low wages and I certainly don't remember any government "respect" for nurses.

 

Furthermore some of the NHS nurses who left , went and worked for agencies and doubled their income but ironically were then working again within the NHS as agency nurses at a huge cost to the government.

At the end of last century, many Australian nurses worked in the NHS as agency nurses, but the government stopped that as costing too much, and recruited African nurses that were happy to work for low wages that were better than what they got in Africa.

 

 

 

 

[RayC]

8 hours ago, nauseus said:

Badly referenced woffle and mostly 'she-said'. 

Come now, Nauseus. How is the article "badly referenced"?

 

The author uses quotation marks where appropriate  and states his sources very clearly elsewhere.

 

Perhaps it's the facts within the article that you find unpalatable?

[Mavideol]

10 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Did you read the bit where its says that Brexit was adding/contributing  to the soaring price rises and the main cause was Ukraine and Covid ?

don't "cherry" pick lines on the post, face reality, BREXIT was and still is UK main cause for the failing economy, wait and see, more to come

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

Come now, Nauseus. How is the article "badly referenced"?

 

The author uses quotation marks where appropriate  and states his sources very clearly elsewhere.

 

Perhaps it's the facts within the article that you find unpalatable?

A clear reference or link might have indicated the publisher - I can guess it was The Observer but why should I need to do that? The content has no real news or substance, just opinion. The EU is heading into recession as well but of course that fact is not mentioned, especially by this author, who is so obviously anti Brexit.

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

don't "cherry" pick lines on the post, face reality, BREXIT was and still is UK main cause for the failing economy, wait and see, more to come

Not case of cherry pick the reality is facts, it was known brexit would affect the UK pretty obvious covid & war will make it worse.

 

Again I say is the UK the only country in the world that is suffering.

[superal]

12 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just to address a few of the points you make.

 

the government sought foreign nurses who were happy to work in the NHS as they were being paid very much more that they were getting in their home countries

I went to work in the NHS as I got better pay and more holidays than in NZ.

 

In the last year 2000 doctors and 40,000 nurses left the UK to countries such as Australia , New Zealand and the U.S.A. where their profession is well paid and respected

The nurses won't be going to NZ for the pay as NZ nurses are leaving to work in Australia where they get better wages. They may move to NZ for other reasons.

I left NZ to work overseas as NZ nurses were paid very low wages and I certainly don't remember any government "respect" for nurses.

 

Furthermore some of the NHS nurses who left , went and worked for agencies and doubled their income but ironically were then working again within the NHS as agency nurses at a huge cost to the government.

At the end of last century, many Australian nurses worked in the NHS as agency nurses, but the government stopped that as costing too much, and recruited African nurses that were happy to work for low wages that were better than what they got in Africa.

 

 

 

 

Just to reiterate , I have attached below the current daily dilemma which is showing the ridiculous payments paid by the various health trusts under the NHS for agency health workers .

 

Figures show ten trusts paid agency nurses more than £2,000 for a day’s work while a third splashed out more than £1,000 for a single shift, it has been revealed.

The priciest was £2,549 forked out by one trust.

An average nurse employed by the NHS earns £130 a shift.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 hours ago, Mavideol said:

don't "cherry" pick lines on the post, face reality, BREXIT was and still is UK main cause for the failing economy, wait and see, more to come

I wasn't cherry picking anything . 

As far as I can see , the article didn't say Brexit was the main cause for the falling economy , it just says it was a contributory factor .

    

[RayC]

3 hours ago, nauseus said:

A clear reference or link might have indicated the publisher - I can guess it was The Observer but why should I need to do that? The content has no real news or substance, just opinion. The EU is heading into recession as well but of course that fact is not mentioned, especially by this author, who is so obviously anti Brexit.

You should re-read the article.

 

Amongst other things, it mentions research which found that Brexit has added £6bn to the UK food bill, and that - according to a survey - a majority of the UK public now think that Brexit was a mistake. This is not opinion, it is reportage.

 

If the research and polling was flawed, then that's fair criticism. Objecting to the message simply because it doesn't fit your own biased narrative isn't.

 

Is the recession in the EU compounded by the effects of Brexit? Perhaps. But if so, surely it adds to the argument that Brexit is economically damaging?

 

I will agree that the author is probably anti-Brexit; the overwhelming majority of economists are.

[Kwasaki]

3 minutes ago, RayC said:

You should re-read the article.

 

Amongst other things, it mentions research which found that Brexit has added £6bn to the UK food bill, and that - according to a survey - a majority of the UK public now think that Brexit was a mistake. This is not opinion, it is reportage.

 

If the research and polling was flawed, then that's fair criticism. Objecting to the message simply because it doesn't fit your own biased narrative isn't.

 

Is the recession in the EU compounded by the effects of Brexit? Perhaps. But if so, surely it adds to the argument that Brexit is economically damaging?

 

I will agree that the author is probably anti-Brexit; the overwhelming majority of economists are.

The UK being the UK make themselves there own enemy ,now is the time to get tough citing charity begins at home.

[RayC]

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Not case of cherry pick the reality is facts, it was known brexit would affect the UK pretty obvious covid & war will make it worse.

No one is denying that Covid and the war have had negative economic effects. In the case of the war, these effects are probably being felt more in mainland Europe than in the UK.

 

3 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

 

Again I say is the UK the only country in the world that is suffering.

And again the reply is that the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests that Brexit has made a bad situation, worse. 

 

If the suggestion is that Brexit has made things worse for EU member states as well then, 'We are all poorer to one degree or another' doesn't sound like much of a justification to me.

[RayC]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The UK being the UK make themselves there own enemy ,now is the time to get tough citing charity begins at home.

How's that going to help? What do you have in mind?

[Kwasaki]

7 minutes ago, RayC said:

No one is denying that Covid and the war have had negative economic effects. In the case of the war, these effects are probably being felt more in mainland Europe than in the UK.

 

And again the reply is that the overwhelming weight of evidence suggests that Brexit has made a bad situation, worse. 

 

If the suggestion is that Brexit has made things worse for EU member states as well then, 'We are all poorer to one degree or another' doesn't sound like much of a justification to me.

Nowt ya can do about buddy except accept and get on with it. 

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

How's that going to help? What do you have in mind?

Stop sending money abroad, get out of NATO, sell arms to other countries, buy oil from Russia, do deals with China,  get immigrants to work straight away to save loss in farm produced products in UK. Make beer completely tax free to save pubs, turn the channel tunnel into a supergun, let motorbikes only go as fast as they want UK.

[RayC]

22 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Nowt ya can do about buddy except accept and get on with it. 

Disagree. Very few things are irreversible.

 

At the very least, don't make a bad situation worse: Johnson and Truss seemed determined to do just that. Small mercies: On first impressions, Sunak seems to be more pragmatic than his immediate predecessors as PM (although he hasn't had a major run in with 'Flat Earth Brigade' - aka the ERG - yet).

[RayC]

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Stop sending money abroad,

Ignoring the moral argument, probably counter-productive anyway. Alienates partners, weakens our influence on the world stage and probably has negative economic consequences to boot.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

get out of NATO,

That would weaken our security and, almost certainly, cost us more than it saves.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

sell arms to other countries,

Don't think that we have too many qualms about doing so as it is 

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

buy oil from Russia,

I'm sure that we will first chance that we get 

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

do deals with China, 

Again ignoring the moral aspect, they aren't that keen on engaging with us.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

get immigrants to work straight away to save loss in farm produced products in UK.

I imagine that many immigrants would agree with you. The UK needs to speed up the process.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Make beer completely tax free to save pubs,

Excellent idea but only (proper) ale/ stout???? Heavily tax lager and 'craft' beers to compensate for the loss of revenue.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

 

turn the channel tunnel into a supergun,

Would need French agreement but why not.

 

15 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

let motorbikes only go as fast as they want UK.

I'd prefer to pay for motorcyclists to move to the Isle of Man.

[Kwasaki]

17 minutes ago, RayC said:

Disagree. Very few things are irreversible.

 

At the very least, don't make a bad situation worse: Johnson and Truss seemed determined to do just that. Small mercies: On first impressions, Sunak seems to be more pragmatic than his immediate predecessors as PM (although he hasn't had a major run in with 'Flat Earth Brigade' - aka the ERG - yet).

I respect your views and opinions but we would find it difficult to find agreement on the way we individually look at how things are. 

Maybe it's an age difference i am 75 feeling 55.

[Mac Mickmanus]

22 minutes ago, RayC said:

Disagree. Very few things are irreversible.

 

 

Trying to convince a few old guys living in Thailand that Brexit was a mistake , isn't going to get the U.K to re-join the E.U

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I respect your views and opinions but we would find it difficult to find agreement on the way we individually look at how things are. 

Maybe it's an age difference i am 75 feeling 55.

Fair enough. I'm 55 feeling 75! Actually almost 64. No idea how other 64-year olds feel; it will be my first time ????????

[RayC]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Trying to convince a few old guys living in Thailand that Brexit was a mistake , isn't going to get the U.K to re-join the E.U

Indeed.

 

But equally supporting them in their belief that Brexit was a good idea isn't going to make the UK a better place.

[Kwasaki]

8 minutes ago, RayC said:

Ignoring the moral argument, probably counter-productive anyway. Alienates partners, weakens our influence on the world stage and probably has negative economic consequences to boot.

 

That would weaken our security and, almost certainly, cost us more than it saves.

 

Don't think that we have too many qualms about doing so as it is 

 

I'm sure that we will first chance that we get 

 

Again ignoring the moral aspect, they aren't that keen on engaging with us.

 

I imagine that many immigrants would agree with you. The UK needs to speed up the process.

 

Excellent idea but only (proper) ale/ stout???? Heavily tax lager and 'craft' beers to compensate for the loss of revenue.

 

Would need French agreement but why not.

 

I'd prefer to pay for motorcyclists to move to the Isle of Man.

In the shortest term no people forget. 

 

Totally disagree UK island can be wiped out at the moment until nuclear attacks can be aliminated.

 

Well develope more advanced weaponry we have the technology to do it.

 

Gas as well. 

 

Don't believe that they bought MG. 

 

Right you want to come here then work not stay in a hotel room. 

 

No tax goofs and alcohol spirits from Scotland and Ireland for voted for the EU mafia. 

 

We have never got on with the French when are people going to realize they are more arogrant than the English.

 

No make England the like the I.O.M.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

Indeed.

 

But equally supporting them in their belief that Brexit was a good idea isn't going to make the UK a better place.

How many people have you convinced to change their mind about Brexit ?

[RayC]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How many people have you convinced to change their mind about Brexit ?

None that I am aware of.

 

However, according to the latest opinion polls many people have changed their minds. I have no idea whether they have been convinced by others or worked out things for themselves.

 

Have you managed to personally to get any Remainers to change sides?

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, RayC said:

You should re-read the article.

 

Amongst other things, it mentions research which found that Brexit has added £6bn to the UK food bill, and that - according to a survey - a majority of the UK public now think that Brexit was a mistake. This is not opinion, it is reportage.

 

If the research and polling was flawed, then that's fair criticism. Objecting to the message simply because it doesn't fit your own biased narrative isn't.

 

Is the recession in the EU compounded by the effects of Brexit? Perhaps. But if so, surely it adds to the argument that Brexit is economically damaging?

 

I will agree that the author is probably anti-Brexit; the overwhelming majority of economists are.

You either didn't read my response properly, or didn't understand it, so I can't see the point of bothering with this more.

[RayC]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You either didn't read my response properly, or didn't understand it, 

It's the latter.

 

I thought that you were complaining about the author of the article not referencing his sources, rather than the original poster not stating explicitly than the article comes from 'The Observer'. 

 

You're right; he doesn't but it also doesn't change the fact that Brexit has had negative effects for the UK economy.

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Trying to convince a few old guys living in Thailand that Brexit was a mistake , isn't going to get the U.K to re-join the E.U

Why does it matter where posters are commenting from? I notice you don’t use this argument against those Thailand residents supporting brexit and supporting your line of argument. Hypocrisy much?

Edited December 7, 2022 by Bluespunk

[Bluespunk]

deleted 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Bluespunk

[bannork]

UK Exports Minister in a forlorn attempt to rectify the damage done to UK exports to the EU by Brexit.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

22 minutes ago, bannork said:

UK Exports Minister in a forlorn attempt to rectify the damage done to UK exports to the EU by Brexit.

 

With the goalposts at the front, its like watching Alan Hansen