Why is the UK struggling more than other countries?

[kwilco]

Brexit played on the ignorance and prejudices of many – here are some myths and disinformation they promulgated – everyone is complete fallacy

 

1. The UK sends 350 million pounds per week to the European Union. This money would go back to the NHS.

 

2. Migrants are stealing Briton’s jobs and the UK would have control over its borders.

 

3. UK Sovereignty is at stake.

 

4. The EU is undemocratic and resembles Nazi Germany. Boris Johnson made the statement that Hitler and Napoleon both failed to unify Europe, and the EU has done the same.

 

5. Poverty in the North has nothing to do with austerity, it’s the European bureaucrats’ fault.

 

6. EU forbids the UK from forming trade deals with other countries. Leaving the EU would allow the UK to form trade deals with the rest of the world.

 

7. The European Army creation - nonsense

 

8. Lisbon Treaty Conspiracy Theory. This involved many lies in one document that spread around on different social media channels. Many of the tweets started with, ‘I have been reading the Lisbon Treaty’. This misinformation campaign began in March 2019 when it looked like the UK may not leave the EU.

 

9. Brexit has no plans to leave the single market

 

10. We have several trade deals ready and waiting to go.

 

It is of course very difficult for Brexiteers to admit they were both wrong and duped -

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

It was actually the U.K that voted as a whole

And who decided the UK would vote as a whole?

The English have been brought up to believe that 50.1 is success and 49.9 failure. History has proven it is a flawed policy.

 

[superal]

19 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And all the economic data.

All that data is history . There are none so blind as those who will not see . As a parallel , successful managers turn things around with new approaches and ideas . Because of Brexit there will be new opportunities with new found freedom away from the bureaucracy of the E.U. . 

There will be no return to the E.U. by the UK and even the Labour party agree with that . Indeed the Tories will win the next election .  

It appears that the remainers have no ambition or vision but are content to be swallowed up by the European government . 

The Russian / Ukraine war will continue to have an effect on both European and global economies for the foreseeable future  . So with reference to the topic heading ,  the UK has not and will not struggle to any greater degree , than other countries , using a mean average .

[RayC]

1 hour ago, superal said:

All that data is history . There are none so blind as those who will not see . As a parallel , successful managers turn things around with new approaches and ideas . Because of Brexit there will be new opportunities with new found freedom away from the bureaucracy of the E.U. . 

There will be no return to the E.U. by the UK and even the Labour party agree with that . Indeed the Tories will win the next election .  

It appears that the remainers have no ambition or vision but are content to be swallowed up by the European government . 

The Russian / Ukraine war will continue to have an effect on both European and global economies for the foreseeable future  . So with reference to the topic heading ,  the UK has not and will not struggle to any greater degree , than other countries , using a mean average .

So data is irrelevant and decisions should be made on blind faith? I would agree that in the case of Brexit, this seems to be the UK government's strategy to date.

 

Innovation is necessary for progression but process, procedure and rules all have their place otherwise anarchy will prevail. 

 

In any event, being 'free' of EU bureaucracy has lead to UK scientists securing less funding from Horizon - the EU sponsored body which allocates research funding - thereby stifling innovation. In a similar vein, it is now more difficult for EU scientists to live and work in the UK, thereby having the opposite effect to what Brexit was (supposedly) meant to do i.e. attract the brightest, most highly skilled individuals to the UK.

 

Six years after the vote to leave, there are few opportunities visible and the 'plan' to exploit them seems to consist of (1) create a minister for Brexit opportunities (2) ask said minister to close his/her eyes tight and wish really, really, really hard that everything works out well.

 

Far from having no ambition, Remainers recognise that a collaborative, co-operative approach with fellow European states is far preferable and more productive than the insular, inward-looking world epitomised by Brexit.

 

If the Tories win the next election, then it may prove that data is no more than history. Twelve - and counting - years of strategic government mismanagement would count for nothing.

 

Unfortunately, I largely agree with you on two points: (1) The UK will not rejoin the EU in the near future. The best that we can hope for is a government that tries to build bridges with the EU rather than actively try to antagonise them (2) The war in Ukraine will have a lasting impact. However, imo this impact will be felt more in mainline Europe than the UK.

 

So with reference to the topic heading, is it therefore possible that the UK will, in fact, suffer less than other countries?

 

Unfortunately not. Until a future UK government is brave enough to acknowledge that Brexit was a collosal mistake and reverse the decision, this self-inflicted wound will outlast the effects of the war and this will mean that the UK will struggle more than our EU neighbours.

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

And who decided the UK would vote as a whole?

The English have been brought up to believe that 50.1 is success and 49.9 failure. History has proven it is a flawed policy.

 

What were the Scottish bought up to believe ?

Were they bought up to believe that the one with the lowest score wins and the one with the highest score loses ?

[Bluespunk]

38 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What were the Scottish bought up to believe ?

Were they bought up to believe that the one with the lowest score wins and the one with the highest score loses ?

Nope.
 

The Scottish people voted by a large margin voted to stay in the EU.
 

They were taken out of the EU against their will despite this large majority. 
 

They can do the maths and for ever increasing numbers, remaining in the U.K. does not add up. 

[Kwasaki]

22 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Nope.
 

The Scottish people voted by a large margin voted to stay in the EU.
 

They were taken out of the EU against their will despite this large majority. 
 

They can do the maths and for ever increasing numbers, remaining in the U.K. does not add up. 

In a democracy it does add up. 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

In a democracy it does add up. 

Not if your country is forced to act in a manner by another.
 

However no worries…

 

An independence referendum should sort that out. 

[Chomper Higgot]

4 hours ago, superal said:

All that data is history . There are none so blind as those who will not see . As a parallel , successful managers turn things around with new approaches and ideas . Because of Brexit there will be new opportunities with new found freedom away from the bureaucracy of the E.U. . 

There will be no return to the E.U. by the UK and even the Labour party agree with that . Indeed the Tories will win the next election .  

It appears that the remainers have no ambition or vision but are content to be swallowed up by the European government . 

The Russian / Ukraine war will continue to have an effect on both European and global economies for the foreseeable future  . So with reference to the topic heading ,  the UK has not and will not struggle to any greater degree , than other countries , using a mean average .

‘There will be’.

 

’Sun-lit uplands’, ‘Jam tomorrow’.

 

There is, economic stupor and growing international irrelevance.

 

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What were the Scottish bought up to believe ?

Were they bought up to believe that the one with the lowest score wins and the one with the highest score loses ?

Infantile response, obviously the concept of multiple criteria would be outside your comprehension.

England is the only nation in the UK that elects on first past the post, and the UK is the only country in the world that allows a referendum to pass on a simple majority.

Although I think it is now fairly safe to say there will never be another UK referendum.

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Infantile response, obviously the concept of multiple criteria would be outside your comprehension.

England is the only nation in the UK that elects on first past the post, and the UK is the only country in the world that allows a referendum to pass on a simple majority.

Although I think it is now fairly safe to say there will never be another UK referendum.

How are referendums in other Countries decided (if not on the majority vote)?

[Bluespunk]

42 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How are referendums in other Countries decided (if not on the majority vote)?

Good question. 
 

Let’s see, now the countries of Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

What happened after that?

[Kwasaki]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Good question. 
 

Let’s see the countries of Northern Ireland and Scotland voted to remain in the EU.

What happened after that?

They also voted to stay in UK. 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

They also voted to stay in UK. 

Before brexicide was forced upon them…

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

They also voted to stay in UK. 

They voted to stay in a UK that was a member of the EU. Things have changed hugely since then as Brexiters themselves acknowledge.

[sandyf]

Of course the UK will not be struggling any more than every other country with an NHS.

 

Brexit is damaging the NHS and driving pressure on overstretched services, a study by healthcare experts has found.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-nhs-staff-medicine-shortages-b2247575.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=IND_Morning_Headlines 19-12-2022&utm_term=IND_Headlines_Masterlist_CDP

[sandyf]

58 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

How are referendums in other Countries decided (if not on the majority vote)?

As I said, you obviously struggle with the concept of multiple criteria.

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

As I said, you obviously struggle with the concept of multiple criteria.

Really no need for the constant personal digs , I was just asking you a question 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Really no need for the constant personal digs , I was just asking you a question 

And yet you ignore answers given. 

[sandyf]

Even Christmas hasn't escaped the self harm.

 

The number of businesses taking part in the UK’s Christmas markets has slumped by more than a fifth since Brexit, it has emerged – with some of Britain’s biggest cities hit hardest by the decline.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/christmas-markets-brexit-uk-trade-b2246624.html

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Really no need for the constant personal digs , I was just asking you a question 

There is a saying about pots and kettles - your words I believe.

 

"What were the Scottish bought up to believe ?

Were they bought up to believe that the one with the lowest score wins and the one with the highest score loses ?"

[kwilco]

English language is an important commodity that is sold around the world.

Although many claim US English as the dominant form, when it comes to learning English by both children and adults, British English was equally popular. Many international schools in Thailand and around the world use the UK curriculum. One now has to worry about the future of British English as industries around the world see it as less important than US English and other languages like French, German Chinese Korean, Japanese etc etc….

 

However the UK or England at least, has gone against the grain – rather than learning to do business with people who speak other languages, with Brexit they have withdrawn into themselves. As little England they no longer want to trade with the biggest trading block in the world or benefit from the world trade that brings in but are concentrating instead on home-growing enough turnips to fill the gaps left in supermarket selves by produce from the EU that is no longer available.....

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

There is a saying about pots and kettles - your words I believe.

 

"What were the Scottish bought up to believe ?

Were they bought up to believe that the one with the lowest score wins and the one with the highest score loses ?"

Yes, how do referendums work in Scotland ?

Are they any different to the way referendums work in England,  like the side who gets the majority wins ?

   (You can also write something yourself, rather than just giving me some link)

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Yes, how do referendums work in Scotland ?

Are they any different to the way referendums work in England,  like the side who gets the majority wins ?

   (You can also write something yourself, rather than just giving me some link)

Yet Scotland voted to remain in the EU but was forced to leave. 

[lungbing]

6 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Not if your country is forced to act in a manner by another.
 

However no worries…

 

An independence referendum should sort that out. 

It certainly would, if you let the English vote as well.

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, lungbing said:

It certainly would, if you let the English vote as well.

Not really, a country should be able to decide its own fate.
 

Scotland is a country, not an appendage of England. 
 

If England wishes to leave the U.K. they should carry out their own referendum. 
 

sarcasm alert 

[kwilco]

As the UK economy totters into recession, Brexit is still biggest headache for British businesses – it ranks higher than the Russian war, Covid or energy costs.

 

For 4 in 5 UK businesses Brexit has been the main supply chain disruptor [survey by Ivalua - Coleman Parkes- Aug 2022]…and apparently over 80% think the worst is yet to come.

 

Over 33% of businesses are reporting a resulting drop of income averaging around 18%. Many are also reporting penalties financial or reputational because of goods arriving late. Reliability is gone from suppliers as continuity has collapsed.

 

Red tape and delays have affected bigger businesses but smaller businesses are faring even worse – it is not known et how many smaller traders have gone out of business because of Brexit. These people don’t just disappear – they owe money or ed up claiming benefits etc. etc…. They also sped less and other businesses they use lose money too.

The prospect of a reliable delivery/supply chin are not regarded as happening anytime soon either – the future looks gloomy with repeated supply/delivery crisis brought about by failures in logistics and bureaucracy of Brexit.

 

Increasingly businesses both big and small are voicing their problems with Brexit to the point that Sunak had to deny he was seeking a Swiss-syle” arrangement with the EU. The fct that he had to issue this denial actually signals there is no smoke without fire.

In the end the UK will have to have closer ties with the EU how soon this happens will depend on how long it takes for common sense to overrule dogma.

[Kwasaki]

48 minutes ago, kwilco said:

As the UK economy totters into recession, Brexit is still biggest headache for British businesses – it ranks higher than the Russian war, Covid or energy costs.

 

For 4 in 5 UK businesses Brexit has been the main supply chain disruptor [survey by Ivalua - Coleman Parkes- Aug 2022]…and apparently over 80% think the worst is yet to come.

 

Over 33% of businesses are reporting a resulting drop of income averaging around 18%. Many are also reporting penalties financial or reputational because of goods arriving late. Reliability is gone from suppliers as continuity has collapsed.

 

Red tape and delays have affected bigger businesses but smaller businesses are faring even worse – it is not known et how many smaller traders have gone out of business because of Brexit. These people don’t just disappear – they owe money or ed up claiming benefits etc. etc…. They also sped less and other businesses they use lose money too.

The prospect of a reliable delivery/supply chin are not regarded as happening anytime soon either – the future looks gloomy with repeated supply/delivery crisis brought about by failures in logistics and bureaucracy of Brexit.

 

Increasingly businesses both big and small are voicing their problems with Brexit to the point that Sunak had to deny he was seeking a Swiss-syle” arrangement with the EU. The fct that he had to issue this denial actually signals there is no smoke without fire.

In the end the UK will have to have closer ties with the EU how soon this happens will depend on how long it takes for common sense to overrule dogma.

The recession will improve in time, middle of next year is what is predicted.

As for bussinesses relying on the EU to do business with the EU when brexit was achived it was up to those business to adapt.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

The recession will improve in time, middle of next year is what is predicted.

As for bussinesses relying on the EU to do business with the EU when brexit was achived it was up to those business to adapt.

Not to mention the weather , its been below freezing for the past two weeks and the sunny uplands will be here soon , within a few months 

[RayC]

7 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Not to mention the weather , its been below freezing for the past two weeks and the sunny uplands will be here soon , within a few months 

Together with a sighting of the lesser spotted Brexit opportunity? Let's hope so but I'll not be holding my breath.