Independence referendum: Scottish government loses indyref2 court case

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

If you discount the Irish and Scottish votes in favour of leave then you have to discount those who voted remain. 
 

You can’t count the votes for one side and not the other, that’s just utter nonsense. 
 

Plus you appear to be discounting the Welsh vote in those numbers…

Welsh votes both leave and remain haven't been discounted I have seen many posts on here that state It was England that forced the UK to leave the EU clearly this is incorrect without the Scots and Irish leave votes the Uk would have remained in the EU

[Bluespunk]

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Welsh votes both leave and remain haven't been discounted I have seen many posts on here that state It was England that forced the UK to leave the EU clearly this is incorrect without the Scots and Irish leave votes the Uk would have remained in the EU

You can’t just count their leave votes and not remain.
 

The reason brexit won was the English and Welsh voted for leave. 

 

The majority of Scots and Irish voted remain. 
 

 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk

[vinny41]

5 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You can’t just count their leave votes and not remain.
 

The reason brexit won was the English and Welsh voted for leave. 

 

The majority of Scots and Irish voted remain. 
 

 

Yes but without the Scots and Irish leave  votes the UK would have remained as part of the EU

In an earlier post you posted that the Scots vote was ignored that is incorrect as we know over 1,018,322 people in Scotland voted to leave

[Bluespunk]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Yes but without the Scots and Irish leave  votes the UK would have remained as part of the EU

In an earlier post you posted that the Scots vote was ignored that is incorrect as we know over 1,018,322 people in Scotland voted to leave

62% voted remain in Scotland-the vast majority. The country’s choice was ignored. 
 

And again, you cannot only count the votes for one side of the vote. 
 

The English vote was nearly 2 million more for leave. That’s why leave won the vote. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk
Missing the inserted

[vinny41]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

62% voted remain in Scotland-the vast majority. The country’s choice was ignored. 
 

And again, you cannot only count the votes for one side of vote. 

If they were taking part in a Scottish only vote yes the majority of voters in Scotland were ignored but everyone know is was an UK and Gibraltar poll and everyone know the side that received the most votes would win

[Mac Mickmanus]

Anyone any good at working out percentages ?

An electorate of 3 987 112

3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 

1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U

What would that be in percentage terms ?

My maths is terrible 

 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

If they were taking part in a Scottish only vote yes the majority of voters in Scotland were ignored but everyone know is was an UK and Gibraltar poll and everyone know the side that received the most votes would win

No one is disputing the side with the

most votes won.
 

The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. 

[puchooay]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. 

The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave.

 

England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland.

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Anyone any good at working out percentages ?

An electorate of 3 987 112

3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 

1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U

What would that be in percentage terms ?

My maths is terrible 

 

38981662 English eligible, 15187583 voted leave. What percentage would that be?

 

Aren't you one of the people that said the whole of the UK voted to leave so a division is not important? Except of course when you think it suits your argument.

Edited November 26, 2022 by stevenl

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No one is disputing the side with the

most votes won.
 

The leave vote won because of the near 2 million majority in favour of leave in England. 

But they wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the Scots and Irish leave votes that pushed them over the line if those Scots and Irish leave voter had chosen to vote remain instead of leave the UK wouldn't have left even with England 2 million  majority in favour of leaving 

In a UK national referendum every single votes counts

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, puchooay said:

The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave.

 

England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland.

Yes they did. 
 

The total of all four countries resulted in the figures you quoted. 
 

The figures that came from 4 different countries. 

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

But they wouldn't have won if it wasn't for the Scots and Irish leave votes that pushed them over the line if those Scots and Irish leave voter had chosen to vote remain instead of leave the UK wouldn't have left even with England 2 million  majority in favour of leaving 

In a UK national referendum every single votes counts

No, they wouldn’t have won if not for the near 2 million vote for leave in England. 

[Phulublub]

5 hours ago, James105 said:

2. Out of the 3,987,112 people in Scotland who were eligible to vote in the EU ref, only 1,661,191 voted to remain in the EU.   The reason Scotland is no longer in the EU is because not enough Scots wanted to vote to remain in the EU.   

Utter baloney.   Out of all those eligible to vote for Brexit in England did a majority actually vote for it?  No, they did not. 

[puchooay]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Yes they did. 
 

The total of all four countries resulted in the figures you quoted. 
 

The figures that came from 4 different countries. 

UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Anyone any good at working out percentages ?

An electorate of 3 987 112

3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 

1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U

What would that be in percentage terms ?

My maths is terrible 

 

Wouldn't that be about 45 % of Scottish people (eligible voters) voted  to Remain in the E.U. 

   Less than half ?

[Bluespunk]

Just now, puchooay said:

UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. 

It was by the four countries that make up the U.K.  

[Phulublub]

5 hours ago, puchooay said:

What was your point?

That many (including me) voted for Scotland to remain part of the UK precisely because leaving the UK would also mean leaving the EU. 

 

PH

[Phulublub]

22 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Anyone any good at working out percentages ?

An electorate of 3 987 112

3 987 112 Scottish people were eligible to vote 

1 661 191 of Scottish people voted to Remain in the E,U

What would that be in percentage terms ?

My maths is terrible 

 

Oh stop with the picking and choosing

 

How many were eligible to vote in the UK?

How many voted to leave?

what would that be in percentgae terms?

 

NOT a majority of that I am absolutely certain.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

13 minutes ago, puchooay said:

The leave vote won as the UK voted 52 to 48% to leave.

 

England did not get a vote. Neither did Wales, Scotland or N.Ireland.

It did.  ---  A result that Nigel Farage said would not be decisive.

 

PH

[Phulublub]

10 minutes ago, puchooay said:

UK was the member state. The vote was by the UK. 

Again making my point about the 2014 referendum and the goalposts not just being moved on the ptich but to an entirely different arena.  THAT is what the thread is about. 

 

PH

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

No, they wouldn’t have won if not for the near 2 million vote for leave in England. 

Leave total vote was 17,410,742 remain total vote was 16,141,241 Scots and Irish combined leave votes were 1,367,764 deducted 1,367764 from 17,410,742 would give leave a combined total of 16,042,978 now add 1,367,764 to the remain total which would give remain a combined total of 17,509,005 which would have ended with a combined majority vote of 1,466,027 

[Phulublub]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Wouldn't that be about 45 % of Scottish people (eligible voters) voted  to Remain in the E.U. 

   Less than half ?

 

2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum

Choice	Votes	%
Leave the European Union	17,410,742	51.89
Remain a member of the European Union	16,141,241	48.11
Valid votes	33,551,983	99.92
Invalid or blank votes	25,359	0.08
Total votes	33,577,342	100.00
Registered voters/turnout	46,500,001	72.21
Source: Electoral Commission[308]

 

So, using your own logic, of the total electorate of 46.5 million, 17.4 million voted to leave.  Under 38%.

 

PH

[Bluespunk]

Just now, vinny41 said:

Leave total vote was 17,410,742 remain total vote was 16,141,241 Scots and Irish combined leave votes were 1,367,764 deducted 1,367764 from 17,410,742 would give leave a combined total of 16,042,978 now add 1,367,764 to the remain total which would give remain a combined total of 17,509,005 which would have ended with a combined majority vote of 1,466,027 

Again, you cannot count the votes for one side alone.
 

And yet again, maths 101, the leave vote won because nearly 2 million more English voted leave than remain. 

[Mac Mickmanus]

7 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

 

2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum

Choice	Votes	%
Leave the European Union	17,410,742	51.89
Remain a member of the European Union	16,141,241	48.11
Valid votes	33,551,983	99.92
Invalid or blank votes	25,359	0.08
Total votes	33,577,342	100.00
Registered voters/turnout	46,500,001	72.21
Source: Electoral Commission[308]

 

So, using your own logic, of the total electorate of 46.5 million, 17.4 million voted to leave.  Under 38%.

 

PH

We are talking about Scotland 

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

Again, you cannot count the votes for one side alone.
 

And yet again, maths 101, the leave vote won because nearly 2 million more English voted leave than remain. 

Is there a law that you can't count the votes for one side alone and if you covert the leave votes of Scotland and Ireland to remain votes combined with the remain votes of the 5 countries that took part in the UK and  Gibraltar then remain would have won

As I said in a UK and Gibraltar votes count and the combined votes of Scotland and Northern Ireland do make a huge difference to the overall total

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Is there a law that you can't count the votes for one side alone and if you covert the leave votes of Scotland and Ireland to remain votes combined with the remain votes of the 5 countries that took part in the UK and  Gibraltar then remain would have won

As I said in a UK and Gibraltar votes count and the combined votes of Scotland and Northern Ireland do make a huge difference to the overall total

You can be as creative as you like and count only votes that will support the opinion you wish to be true.
 

However it does not change the fact that leave happened because of the English leave vote.
 

It was an insurmountable number that proved decisive. 

Edited November 26, 2022 by Bluespunk

[puchooay]

26 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

That many (including me) voted for Scotland to remain part of the UK precisely because leaving the UK would also mean leaving the EU. 

 

PH

No according to SNP.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

You can be as creative as you like and count only votes that will support the opinion you wish to be true.
 

However it does not change the fact that leave happened because of the English leave vote.
 

It was an insurmountable number that proved decisive. 

And I have proved that it was the combined votes of Scotland and Irish Leavers voters that made the difference in leave's overall result

 

[Bluespunk]

Just now, vinny41 said:

And I have proved that it was the combined votes of Scotland and Irish Leavers voters that made the difference in leave's overall result

 

And I have repeatedly pointed out why that argument is bogus, as you cannot count only one set of votes and that the near 2 million English majority in favour of leave was the decisive number. 

[vinny41]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

And I have repeatedly pointed out why that argument is bogus, as you cannot count only one set of votes and that the near 2 million English majority in favour of leave was the decisive number. 

Have to agree to disagree if for some reason all the Scots and Irish leave voting slips were disqualified they the UK would have remained as part of the EU