Thailand going cashless. Are you for or against it?

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 12/3/2022 at 6:50 PM, StreetCowboy said:

Inflation affects the money in your bank account or your ewallet same as it affects the cash under your mattress.

Not really, we have just been living in a zero interest rate environment for so long that we have all but forgotten about interest rate on a saving account. 

Back it the days, it was not uncommon to get 7-10% interest rate on a simple bank account.

[lkn]

If you worry about being tracked: Install an ad blocker like uBlock Origin. Also disable third party cookies / use a privacy respecting web browser.

 

And avoid joining any of the membership programs offered by pretty much all the big chain stores in Thailand. Though personally, I use The 1 card in Thailand, but with notifications and emails disabled, so it just means I get discounts on my purchases and accumulate points that can be used for cash vouchers. Only downside I see is that I have to give them my phone number or let them scan a barcode prior to each purchase.

 

Here I actually like how I am being “tracked” in Europe: My grocery stores have their own apps where I can add my payment cards, and they then give me personal discounts, as long as I pay with one of these cards. The total amount is updated, once I wave my card in front of the payment terminal.

 

All the store want is, to get me to buy more or nudge me toward more expensive products. So if I haven’t bought ice cream in a while, but their profile shows that I used to spend a lot on Ben & Jerry’s, they may give me a 50% off on Ben & Jerry’s to remind me of this product, is that really so bad?

 

I think the stores have figured out how to not annoy their customers with spam and instead just do this gentle nudging via discounts. I actually have to open the app to look at what personal discounts I have this week/month.

[lkn]

Those complaining that “cashless” is slow: That is the QR-code implementation. Using NFC is instant, and you don’t need to search for the app first or bypass the latest ad banner from your Thai banking app.

 

Unfortunately PromptPay is the main system here, with NFC mainly offered by the big chain stores (Tops, Central, Big-C, 7-Eleven, Rimping, etc.) and the more expensive eateries. This is likely due to the higher fee for accepting VISA/MasterCard/UnionPay instead of PromptPay.

 

In Europe the interchange fee has been capped at 0.11% and 0.13% for debit and credit cards respectively. Which means that payment cards (in most countries) are ubiquitous, which also means that restaurants pretty much always bring the portable payment terminal together with the bill, and stores have the NFC-enabled terminal mounted so it faces the customer, and is ready to accept your card as soon as the “total amount” is displayed on the cash register.

 

Also most self-service kiosks and similar take your card / contactless payment.
 

I think I have used “self checkout” in a handful of European countries paying with my phone, it is a convenience that I would love to see available everywhere.

[KhaoYai]

On 12/4/2022 at 4:19 AM, richard_smith237 said:

I agree with the rights to privacy - but when we enter a public domain we give up some of those rights, i.e shopping on Amazon or any other online purchase - I don’t see that as a major issue. 

I cannot agree that online purchases are a 'public domain'.  You buy something and that is a transaction between yourself and the seller - you are not standing at a public auction and bidding.

 

Buyers should have every right to keep details of their purchases private. 

[3NUMBAS]

no....prices will be rounded up to the next 100 or 1000 bahts hoping you wont notice...beggars will go hungry

[Mac Mickmanus]

12 minutes ago, 3NUMBAS said:

no....prices will be rounded up to the next 100 or 1000 bahts hoping you wont notice...beggars will go hungry

That doesn't happen though , 

[StreetCowboy]

On 12/5/2022 at 7:16 PM, ExpatOilWorker said:

Not really, we have just been living in a zero interest rate environment for so long that we have all but forgotten about interest rate on a saving account. 

Back it the days, it was not uncommon to get 7-10% interest rate on a simple bank account.

When inflation was 8 or 10% or more.

We became used to low inflation, until the governments enlisted the printing presses to wash their way out of the COVID Crisis with a sea of green.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/5/2022 at 9:58 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

They need to make the apps easier to use and make them more reliable 

Use real money and no need for apps.

I don't have one of those phones that can even have an "app" on. Never used an "app" and hope to die before I have to.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

When inflation was 8 or 10% or more.

We became used to low inflation, until the governments enlisted the printing presses to wash their way out of the COVID Crisis with a sea of green.

There was a guy on Fox that used to have a show and warned that government printing money out of nothing would lead to inflation. He was mocked for it, and eventually lost his show ( I presumed for being too close to reality ).

Wonder if the mockers are ashamed for it now he's been proven right?

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/6/2022 at 2:44 AM, lkn said:

I think I have used “self checkout” in a handful of European countries paying with my phone, it is a convenience that I would love to see available everywhere.

Only convenient till you lose your phone or the battery fails. Real money doesn't use batteries.

[still kicking]

Well, I don't live in Thailand at the moment, but I have for many, years my opinion is no, I live in a near no cash country, but I guess it would not be good for Thailand how you pay for street food? 

[lkn]

6 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only convenient till you lose your phone or the battery fails. Real money doesn't use batteries.

A payment card does not use batteries and have the same technology (NFC). When I travel, I usually do keep such card on me.

[lkn]

6 hours ago, still kicking said:

I guess it would not be good for Thailand how you pay for street food? 

Been to plenty street markets / fairs in Europe where all vendors accepted payment cards (including wallet apps via NFC) using a small portable devices.

 

In the U.S. Apple has rolled out phone-to-phone NFC payments, so vendor can use their phone to securely accept the payment.

 

Of course there is also the QR-code approach, this is currently used by many/most Thai vendors, but it’s a bit cumbersome, because at best it requires 6 steps (open phone, open app, scan QR code, enter amount, confirm, show to vendor).

 

Something like Apple Pay is a double-click on the power button and then put the phone in front of the payment terminal. Of course the vendor will have to enter the amount, but most vendors who take payments in Europe already do this as part of their sales system (that then provides them with profit/loss reports, tax calculation, inventory tracking, etc., though most Thai vendors would probably not care about this).

[thaibeachlovers]

48 minutes ago, lkn said:

A payment card does not use batteries and have the same technology (NFC). When I travel, I usually do keep such card on me.

Still depends on technology. If a power cut means the technology doesn't work, what ya goin' to do?

[thaibeachlovers]

43 minutes ago, lkn said:

Of course the vendor will have to enter the amount,

and what could possibly go wrong with that 555555555555555555555555555

[lkn]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still depends on technology. If a power cut means the technology doesn't work, what ya goin' to do?

Most things depend on technology; all the refrigerated stuff in your convenience store would also spoil, if there is a power outage, and their cash register probably won’t open, to accept your cash.

 

 

So you are just being silly! Many European countries have been mostly cashless for 20 or so years, so if it was actually a problem, we should know by now.

[lkn]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

and what could possibly go wrong with that 555555555555555555555555555

Again with this silliness, we have close to 40 years experience with this stuff, yet it has never been a problem, however, I have experienced plenty of shortchanging, when paying with cash.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, lkn said:

Again with this silliness, we have close to 40 years experience with this stuff, yet it has never been a problem, however, I have experienced plenty of shortchanging, when paying with cash.

We have exactly zero years experience with cashless, as both cash end electronic payments both worked in parallel. 

With Starbucks going 100% cashless in Thailand ????????, they are no-go for me as I don't want to track small payments on credit cards.

[whereyougo]

The usual suspects fighting to keep thailand from advancing and losing its 3rd world charm

But the world is rapidly advancing to cashless 

 

[still kicking]

52 minutes ago, whereyougo said:

The usual suspects fighting to keep thailand from advancing and losing its 3rd world charm

But the world is rapidly advancing to cashless 

 

That includes African countries and middle east?

[lkn]

5 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

We have exactly zero years experience with cashless, as both cash end electronic payments both worked in parallel. 

I mean experience with vendors having to enter the amount and then customer approve it, which I have never experienced resulted in fraud. On the contrary, with a digital transaction, there is proof of what was paid, unlike being shortchanged; it has happened to me a few times, that the clerk will claim I paid with a smaller bill than what I actually handed over, or they simple give back the wrong change, where it sometimes seems on purpose (this was in China).

 

5 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

With Starbucks going 100% cashless in Thailand ????????, they are no-go for me as I don't want to track small payments on credit cards

Why? Is it about cluttering up the statement, or the fear of being tracked?

 

As you may know, you can get a “cash card”, which should solve both problems, and can be topped up online.

[thaibeachlovers]

16 hours ago, lkn said:

Most things depend on technology; all the refrigerated stuff in your convenience store would also spoil, if there is a power outage, and their cash register probably won’t open, to accept your cash.

 

 

So you are just being silly! Many European countries have been mostly cashless for 20 or so years, so if it was actually a problem, we should know by now.

Soooo, why don't I want 100% cashless? I don't want to be at the mercy of the banks, which have done nothing to make me trust them. I don't want to depend on a device that can stop working or get lost. I don't want to live in a world where criminal hackers are more clever than the ones on the "good side" ( crime pays better ). I don't want to depend on a piece of plastic that can get broken easily, or just stop working.

I do want to feel that I have some control over my own life.

 

All you believers can go get a chip implanted in your brain if that's what you want, but I'll pass on the Brave New World.

Baaaaa.

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, lkn said:

Why? Is it about cluttering up the statement, or the fear of being tracked?

 

 

Those that haven't swallowed the BS have good reason to not want to be tracked.

[Mac Mickmanus]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooo, why don't I want 100% cashless? I don't want to be at the mercy of the banks, which have done nothing to make me trust them. I don't want to depend on a device that can stop working or get lost. I don't want to live in a world where criminal hackers are more clever than the ones on the "good side" ( crime pays better ). I don't want to depend on a piece of plastic that can get broken easily, or just stop working.

I do want to feel that I have some control over my own life.

 

All you believers can go get a chip implanted in your brain if that's what you want, but I'll pass on the Brave New World.

Baaaaa.

And I will give you a wave as we drive by when you are left at the bus stop because the driver doesn't take cash 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

And I will give you a wave as we drive by when you are left at the bus stop because the driver doesn't take cash 

555555555555555

I had an Oyster card in London, and a Bee card here. I use real money to load them.

 

Next.

[lkn]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I don't want to depend on a piece of plastic that can get broken easily, or just stop working.

Right, no-one ever lose their cash or bring too little…

 

You seem a little “out there”, but regardless, I think when most of us talk about “cashless” we just mean that it should be possible to pay for goods and services without the need to hand over physical tokens with numbers on them.

 

My own country has been “cashless” for 10 or so years, but by law, a business is still required to accept cash between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., with a few exceptions, e.g. for remote sales or self-service kiosks, there is no cash requirement.

 

All we ask for is just a more convenient (for us) way to pay, not having to carry around all those bills and coins all the time, just in case we need to buy some water or need a taxi, not having to regularly visit the ATM (or presumably for you, a safe) and try to figure out how much cash we will need for the rest of the day, etc.

[thaibeachlovers]

42 minutes ago, lkn said:

Right, no-one ever lose their cash or bring too little…

 

You seem a little “out there”, but regardless, I think when most of us talk about “cashless” we just mean that it should be possible to pay for goods and services without the need to hand over physical tokens with numbers on them.

 

My own country has been “cashless” for 10 or so years, but by law, a business is still required to accept cash between 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., with a few exceptions, e.g. for remote sales or self-service kiosks, there is no cash requirement.

All we ask for is just a more convenient (for us) way to pay, not having to carry around all those bills and coins all the time, just in case we need to buy some water or need a taxi, not having to regularly visit the ATM (or presumably for you, a safe) and try to figure out how much cash we will need for the rest of the day, etc.

I've never not had enough money when I need it.

 

I don't care if you go cashless as long as I can use real money.

Plenty on here saying that their way is the only way- they ain't the only people on earth.

 

baaaaa.

[TheAppletons]

On 12/7/2022 at 1:45 AM, still kicking said:

That includes African countries and middle east?

Shall we talk about Nigeria?  Starting next month, individuals will be limited to the USD equivalent of $225 per week in ATM withdrawals (not to exceed $45/day.)  The most allowed as "cash back" at a Point of Sale terminal will be $45.

 

"The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) has directed Deposit Money Banks (DMOs) and other financial institutions to ensure that weekly over-the-counter (OTC) cash withdrawals by individuals and corporate entities do not exceed ₦100,000 and ₦500,000, respectively."

 

and

 

"During the first anniversary of Nigeria's digital currency—eNaira, Godwin Emefiele, the Governor of the CBN said the bank wants to achieve a 100% cashless economy."

 

https://www.benjamindada.com/cbn-cash-withdrawal-limits/

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/8/2022 at 8:46 PM, TheAppletons said:

Shall we talk about Nigeria?  Starting next month, individuals will be limited to the USD equivalent of $225 per week in ATM withdrawals (not to exceed $45/day.)  The most allowed as "cash back" at a Point of Sale terminal will be $45.

 

"The Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) has directed Deposit Money Banks (DMOs) and other financial institutions to ensure that weekly over-the-counter (OTC) cash withdrawals by individuals and corporate entities do not exceed ₦100,000 and ₦500,000, respectively."

 

and

 

"During the first anniversary of Nigeria's digital currency—eNaira, Godwin Emefiele, the Governor of the CBN said the bank wants to achieve a 100% cashless economy."

 

https://www.benjamindada.com/cbn-cash-withdrawal-limits/

LOL, what could possibly go wrong with that in Nigeria? 5555555555555555555555