Local Pattaya bar owner at wits end after legal dispute over bar lease and status

[Leaver]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:41 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Based on what evidence? 

 

Based on an overwhelming amount of observations over the years of businesses opening, only to close not long later, pre covid, of course. 

[Leaver]

On 12/10/2022 at 10:54 AM, Mac Mickmanus said:

I have seen that many new businesses , restaurants and things don't seem to last long , they are often gone within a few months ,

 

Yes. Some other members don't seem to know this. 

[Leaver]

On 12/10/2022 at 2:30 PM, ericthai said:

I understand that he has allot invested, things happen and at this point his the landlord and partners playing games I only see loosing more money and not getting the bar back. You cant keep putting out money into a loosing situation.

 

It was a losing situation from Day 1.

[dddave]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:42 PM, joecoolfrog said:

Hairy Pie was a complete mess several years before the end , as indeed was Taffy.

 

Thank you!  I've been trying and failing to remember his name.  To say he was a "character" does not do him justice. "Wild man" comes closer.

[Liverpool Lou]

14 hours ago, Leaver said:

On 12/10/2022 at 5:41 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Based on what evidence? 

 

Based on an overwhelming amount of observations over the years of businesses opening, only to close not long later, pre covid, of course. 

So nothing empirical, then, just your opinion with no stats to back it up.

[Leaver]

On 12/24/2022 at 3:29 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

So nothing empirical, then, just your opinion with no stats to back it up.

 

Read again, I said my "observations" not opinion.  How many others observed the same? 

[Harsh Jones]

On 12/23/2022 at 7:29 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

So nothing empirical, then, just your opinion with no stats to back it up.

It is common knowledge in business circles But here's the data you were asking for.

 

60% of restaurants for example, fail in the first year. 80% of them fail before their 5th anniversary. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/20/heres-the-real-reason-why-most-restaurants-fail.html

 

In Canada, 51% of all businesses fail https://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/m_blog/four-businesses-most-likely-to-fail

Edited December 29, 2022 by Harsh Jones

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, Leaver said:

On 12/24/2022 at 10:29 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

So nothing empirical, then, just your opinion with no stats to back it up.

 

Read again, I said my "observations" not opinion. 

Your "observations" about something as specific as the numbers of failed businesses with nothing empirical to back them up are just your opinions.  Of course, if you have done a credible study of the phenomenon you'd have some credible stats, then it would not just be your opinion.

[Liverpool Lou]

4 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

On 12/24/2022 at 10:29 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

So nothing empirical, then, just your opinion with no stats to back it up.

It is common knowledge in business circles But here's the data you were asking for.

 

60% of restaurants for example, fail in the first year. 80% of them fail before their 5th anniversary. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/01/20/heres-the-real-reason-why-most-restaurants-fail.html

 

In Canada, 51% of all businesses fail https://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/m_blog/four-businesses-most-likely-to-fail

Oh, brilliant, that is not the data I was asking for!  You don't understand that the thread/discussion is about unsubstantiated claims of business failures of bars in Pattaya, not completely unrelated restaurant failures in the US and Canada?!

Edited December 30, 2022 by Liverpool Lou

[brianthainess]

Yet again, 

[Harsh Jones]

38 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Oh, brilliant, that is not the data I was asking for!  You don't understand that the thread/discussion is about unsubstantiated claims of business failures of bars in Pattaya, not completely unrelated restaurant failures in the US and Canada?!

I don't think it is a big leap in the slightest to assume that business failures in Pattaya involving farangs is higher, much higher, than restaurant failures in the N. America. So many ppl try it because its one of the few ways a farang can make a living in the kingdom. 

 

Even me and my friend at 23 years old, thought about opening a bar in Pattaya

 

 

[Liverpool Lou]

12 minutes ago, Harsh Jones said:

I don't think it is a big leap in the slightest to assume that business failures in Pattaya involving farangs is higher, much higher, than restaurant failures in the N. America.

Well, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that it's a huge stretch to attempt to connect two different types of business in three different countries on the other sides of the planet.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that it's a huge stretch to attempt to connect two different types of business in three different countries on the other sides of the planet.

For a farang, buying a lease with all it's attendant problems, abiding by the regulations and the plod's you know what, dealing with Thai staff, and competing with hundreds of other similar businesses run by Thais, it's almost designed to fail.

I used to visit a well known and long established restaurant owned but not run by an Englishman near the Coconut bar, so in a prime location ( he wasn't allowed to make himself breakfast in his own kitchen ). He gave up and went home because the plod became too demanding.

[Leaver]

12 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Your "observations" about something as specific as the numbers of failed businesses with nothing empirical to back them up are just your opinions.  Of course, if you have done a credible study of the phenomenon you'd have some credible stats, then it would not just be your opinion.

 

How can observations be opinions? 

 

Example:  When Covid hit, did YOU see (observe) all the For Sale and For Rent signs and empty commercial premises?  Of course you did.  When you OBSERVED such premises, did you conclude the business when broke?  Of course you did.  It's no different to walking around Central Pattaya, pre covid, and seeing businesses open, and then and fold, and there were many over the years.  

[Leaver]

11 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that it's a huge stretch to attempt to connect two different types of business in three different countries on the other sides of the planet.

 

Why don't you offer some content and you put a percentage on it then, since you disagree? 

[Northstar1]

Yet another from the UK living the dream, what’s next?

a YouTube channel?

[Leaver]

38 minutes ago, Northstar1 said:

Yet another from the UK living the dream, what’s next?

a YouTube channel?

 

Or perhaps a Go Fund Me.  ???? 

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

On 12/30/2022 at 10:13 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Your "observations" about something as specific as the numbers of failed businesses with nothing empirical to back them up are just your opinions.  Of course, if you have done a credible study of the phenomenon you'd have some credible stats, then it would not just be your opinion.

Expand  

 

How can observations be opinions? 

Easy, you  just said that you had made all these observations with absolutely zero back-up for your claims, that makes them just your opinions.  

[Liverpool Lou]

12 hours ago, Leaver said:

23 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that it's a huge stretch to attempt to connect two different types of business in three different countries on the other sides of the planet.

 

Why don't you offer some content and you put a percentage on it then, since you disagree? 

Because I don't have to, I'm not the one who made the failing businesses claims, you did, the onus is on you to justify your initial uncorroborated assertions.

[JimTripper]

These failed business ventures have been around forever. Does anyone know why they never seem to work out?

[Harsh Jones]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:19 PM, Liverpool Lou said:

Well, that's your opinion.  My opinion is that it's a huge stretch to attempt to connect two different types of business in three different countries on the other sides of the planet.

That is not my opinion. 50% of businesses fail, minimum. Everywhere. 

[Harsh Jones]

13 hours ago, JimTripper said:

These failed business ventures have been around forever. Does anyone know why they never seem to work out?

Its just the nature of life and the odds. But if you think its all about discipline and hard work then go ahead. Learn the hard way.

[Harsh Jones]

14 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Easy, you  just said that you had made all these observations with absolutely zero back-up for your claims, that makes them just your opinions.  

Zero back-up ?

 

I put "bar in Thailand failure rate" i Google. Here's the first result :

 

Bangkok, Thailand, has long been chosen as one of the best nightlife destinations by international travellers as well as numerous global tourism sources. Nightclubs in Bangkok account for more than 150 Million USD each year. Unfortunately, an estimated 80% of new nightclubs fail within the first year.

 

Here's an article that says 10% of bars and restaurants survive in Pattaya

 

https://pattayaunplugged.com/why-do-most-bars-and-restaurants-fail-in-pattaya/ 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2022 by Harsh Jones

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, Harsh Jones said:

Its just the nature of life and the odds. But if you think its all about discipline and hard work then go ahead. Learn the hard way.

There was some guy from Chicago in the USA who opened a bar on soi pothole (the backyard bar). He did everything right, even had a background in business management, etc. 

 

less then a year later the bar is up for sale. I wonder if the plan was to just start it and then sell, rather than run a working business? Seems like people just want a clump of money all at once for some reason, rather then small profits over time if it’s working.

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Here's an article that says 10% of bars and restaurants survive in Pattaya

Doesn't surprise me..... and a number that is credible...

The way land is appropriated and becomes a condo or hotel or mall must move things along somewhat, when in a single swoop 20-30 bars with a few restaurants are gone. There are some survivors that were here in my tourist days and still are .... 

Edited December 31, 2022 by jacko45k

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

Here's an article that says 10% of bars and restaurants survive in Pattaya

 

https://pattayaunplugged.com/why-do-most-bars-and-restaurants-fail-in-pattaya/ 

55555555!    Did you read it?  That's not an article confirming anything, it's a reader's hypothetical story submitted to Pattaya Unplugged, nothing more, with no proven statistics, whatsoever.

[Liverpool Lou]

9 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

On 12/31/2022 at 11:17 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

Easy, you  just said that you had made all these observations with absolutely zero back-up for your claims, that makes them just your opinions.  

Zero back-up ?

 

I put "bar in Thailand failure rate" i Google. Here's the first result :

 

Bangkok, Thailand, has long been chosen as one of the best nightlife destinations by international travellers as well as numerous global tourism sources. Nightclubs in Bangkok account for more than 150 Million USD each year. Unfortunately, an estimated 80% of new nightclubs fail within the first year.

Yes, zero backup.   That "quote" refers to nightclubs, not bars but, even if it did relate to bars, who made those claims and based on what?   You sure didn't, and that was what you started going on about...you claimed you knew about the failure rates and all you're doing now is desperately trawling the internet to try to find anything that fits your initial claims and narrative and so far you've come up with nothing to specifically justify your assertions.   

[Liverpool Lou]

10 hours ago, Harsh Jones said:

That is not my opinion. 50% of businesses fail, minimum. Everywhere. 

Says who, about Thai bar business?    Your comment is your opinion.

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 12/23/2022 at 10:32 PM, dddave said:

Thank you!  I've been trying and failing to remember his name.  To say he was a "character" does not do him justice. "Wild man" comes closer.

Taffy died of COVID-19 back in England about 18 months ago.

[Liverpool Lou]

32 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

Oh my God, Lou is the Lord decider.  Save us all Lou.

Not at all, but those who make the claims are the ones who are obligated to provide the proof of their claims, not those who dispute the claims.