Big Joke says he's investigating Immigration from top to bottom : 27 cops in headlights

[Neeranam]

57 minutes ago, itsari said:

Agents helping foreigners regarding financial requirements has been going on for at least 20 years.

Say it like it is - agents helping foreigners bribe Immigration police to allow them to stay in the Kingdom when they don't satisfy the requirements.  

[Neeranam]

55 minutes ago, nigelforbes said:

You mean you're not ready to agree with me. If you don't get that bribery and corruption is a crime, we have nothing to debate, you are plain and simple in denial.

Problem is that Immigration police intimidate some naïve foreigners into using their corrupt services. Rather than standing up for themselves, and defending their integrity(as well as not breaking the law), they succumb and pay them. 

 

[nigelforbes]

13 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Problem is that Immigration police intimidate some naïve foreigners into using their corrupt services. Rather than standing up for themselves, and defending their integrity(as well as not breaking the law), they succumb and pay them. 

 

I don't doubt that is true but I can't imagine any scenario where I would feel obliged to do that.

[Neeranam]

On 12/13/2022 at 10:45 AM, webfact said:

from non-commissioned classes to the generals.

It's corrupt to the core, even the photocopying place in Khon Kaen used to charge me 7 baht per page! Also, they had a tip box on display until I complained and got it removed. 

[mikeymike100]

55 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

Jomtien office is doing a very thorough check of all ED and non-o visas and extensions thereof. Instead of taking 1 day to issue an extension, now it is 3 business days.  They are checking who was involved when the original visa was issued and if everthing was done properly, according to regulations. Also verifing the authenticity of all documents submitted to get the extension.

 

Are any other offices taking longer to approve extensions of long-term visas? 

The reason Jomtien is taking longer with just about everything is not because they have changed any of their procedures, its because of the sheer volume of people applying.

There has been an influx of Russians and others in the area, plus now Covid is, lets say 'over' many people have returned. They cannot cope and are therefore taking longer to process everything, its not rocket science!

[Smokey and the Bandit]

This thread is about Big Joke investigating ties with the Chinese mafia?

"He is investigating links in the IB ranks to the granting of favors to Chinese nationals looking to live and do business in Thailand. "

"Some crime could probably be traced abroad but there was as yet no evidence of that in the inquiry."

 

It is clear what he is investigating, but once again we see the comments go off at a tangent.

 

Surely if people want to use agents, its up to them and if they don't , again its up to them?

People can do what they want with their money?

 

 

[Neeranam]

50 minutes ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

This thread is about Big Joke investigating ties with the Chinese mafia?

"He is investigating links in the IB ranks to the granting of favors to Chinese nationals looking to live and do business in Thailand. "

"Some crime could probably be traced abroad but there was as yet no evidence of that in the inquiry."

 

It is clear what he is investigating, but once again we see the comments go off at a tangent.

 

Surely if people want to use agents, its up to them and if they don't , again its up to them?

People can do what they want with their money?

 

 

Part of a discussion forum is to talk about things related to the topic. 

This is about a top Policeman investigating bent Immigration Cops, and I and others know that the one investigating is actually taking in Billions from foreigners, many of whom think they are doing no wrong. I think this is very relevant for an expat forum to bring to light what is going on in the immigration department. When I hear people saying it's their money and they can bypass immigration requirements if they want, I would ask you what you think of foreigners doing the same in your home country? 

[Olmate]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Part of a discussion forum is to talk about things related to the topic. 

This is about a top Policeman investigating bent Immigration Cops, and I and others know that the one investigating is actually taking in Billions from foreigners, many of whom think they are doing no wrong. I think this is very relevant for an expat forum to bring to light what is going on in the immigration department. When I hear people saying it's their money and they can bypass immigration requirements if they want, I would ask you what you think of foreigners doing the same in your home country? 

Looking for some thai citizen to comment!? 

[itsari]

52 minutes ago, proton said:

I don't decide what are crimes the law does. Not being many convictions does not make corrupt illegal activities non crimes. If he takes this further a lot on dodgy extension holders will be cacking their pants, claiming they used to get away with it will not be a defence.

You need a job with the Thai prosecution  put your ideas  into action .

If you manage to bribe your way into a position then proton will become extinct.

1 hour ago, nigelforbes said:

You have absolutely no knowledge about how many people have been convicted of this crime, how could you possibly know it's zero. In my camp we have the fact that bribery and corruption is a crime, in your camp you have hope and that's all. The chances that people have been convicted of this crime are far higher than thinking they haven't.

Then show us a conviction.

I have only lived here 8 years and have not seen anything in the news about a successful prosecution or been charged of a Thai immigration official for helping a foreigner gain staying permission.

It will not happen anytime soon either.

[mikeymike100]

11 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Part of a discussion forum is to talk about things related to the topic. 

This is about a top Policeman investigating bent Immigration Cops, and I and others know that the one investigating is actually taking in Billions from foreigners, many of whom think they are doing no wrong. I think this is very relevant for an expat forum to bring to light what is going on in the immigration department. When I hear people saying it's their money and they can bypass immigration requirements if they want, I would ask you what you think of foreigners doing the same in your home country? 

I am in agreement with you that people can and should discuss the topics presented and related topics, but where do you draw the line? The topic of 'retirement visas and agents ' has been done to death and really people have there own views on it? Its a personal decision and I accept that.

As for foreigners doing it in your home country, well that would depend on where that is? It would be naive to assume Thailand is the only country that has corrupt cops/immigration/judiciary?

Corruption is widespread in most countries, maybe not so obvious, but its there?

[Enzian]

One thing that makes this discussion difficult is that the "rule of law", as it is understood in the west, is problematic in Thailand. I'm not taking sides in this (is there a crime or isn't there?). I just want to see something really authoritative one way or the other, and imo no one so far has provided that.

[mikeymike100]

2 minutes ago, itsari said:

You need a job with the Thai prosecution  put your ideas  into action .

If you manage to bribe your way into a position then proton will become extinct.

Then show us a conviction.

I have only lived here 8 years and have not seen anything in the news about a successful prosecution or been charged of a Thai immigration official for helping a foreigner gain staying permission.

It will not happen anytime soon either.

Right, if someone had been charged and convicted of a crime relating to this, surely it would have splashed all over the news/social media. Now if it had happened to one agent, all the others would be up in arms, protests, maybe, I don't know, but it would big news?

Certainly on forums like this?

[nigelforbes]

20 minutes ago, itsari said:

You need a job with the Thai prosecution  put your ideas  into action .

If you manage to bribe your way into a position then proton will become extinct.

Then show us a conviction.

I have only lived here 8 years and have not seen anything in the news about a successful prosecution or been charged of a Thai immigration official for helping a foreigner gain staying permission.

It will not happen anytime soon either.

I've lived here for 21 years and I haven't seen one either, but I'd bet the farm there has been plenty. And I know you will find this odd but the criteria for whether a prosecution exists or not has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it's ever been on the news!!!

[itsari]

1 minute ago, nigelforbes said:

I've lived here for 21 years and I haven't seen one either, but I'd bet the farm there has been plenty. And I know you will find this odd but the criteria for whether a prosecution exists or not has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not it's ever been on the news!!!

Suppression of a conviction to the public you say. 

I would prefer to believe that there has not been a successful prosecution on receiving money for a foreigner obtaining a extension of stay without meeting the financial requirements. 

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Banana7 said:

Are any other offices taking longer to approve extensions of long-term visas? 

When do you claim this started.... last week mine (Retirement Extension) took 1 day?

[Smokey and the Bandit]

57 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Part of a discussion forum is to talk about things related to the topic. 

This is about a top Policeman investigating bent Immigration Cops, and I and others know that the one investigating is actually taking in Billions from foreigners, many of whom think they are doing no wrong. I think this is very relevant for an expat forum to bring to light what is going on in the immigration department. When I hear people saying it's their money and they can bypass immigration requirements if they want, I would ask you what you think of foreigners doing the same in your home country? 

Agreed, but why is only agents and retirement visa mentioned?, actually extensions of stay! I dont know how many visa classifications there are, but there are many? But only gets discussed?

[Artisi]

6 minutes ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Agreed, but why is only agents and retirement visa mentioned?, actually extensions of stay! I dont know how many visa classifications there are, but there are many? But only gets discussed?

Actually the discussion has shifted to extensions - not visa's and would suggest that the majority of extensions are either based on marriage or retirement, not the number of visa / extensions available. 

[KannikaP]

11 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

When do you claim this started.... last week mine (Retirement Extension) took 1 day?

Divide that by 24 and that's how long mine took in P'lok.

[Artisi]

1 minute ago, KannikaP said:

Divide that by 24 and that's how long mine took in P'lok.

My last marriage extension paperwork submission in P'lok took about 30 minutes with the usual 30-day paperwork review in Bkk for final approval. Get your ducks in order and be polite then there is never a problem.  

[Dart12]

Fact or fallacy?  

Agencies providing retirement "financial services"  are acting as a "bank" to provide loans to retirees to have the correct amount of funds in thai bank (at loan shark rates which is also legal here) making the whole process legal.

I read this the other day that this is the loophole that allows them to operate.

I've done zero research on it, but does sound plausible.

 

[Neeranam]

38 minutes ago, Smokey and the Bandit said:

Agreed, but why is only agents and retirement visa mentioned?, actually extensions of stay! I dont know how many visa classifications there are, but there are many? But only gets discussed?

Maybe retirees are the most common as there is a requirement to keep 800k baht in the bank every year. 

All countries have similar requirements, but much more money. 

[Neeranam]

8 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Fact or fallacy?  

Agencies providing retirement "financial services"  are acting as a "bank" to provide loans to retirees to have the correct amount of funds in thai bank (at loan shark rates which is also legal here) making the whole process legal.

I read this the other day that this is the loophole that allows them to operate.

I've done zero research on it, but does sound plausible.

 

There's one agent I know of in Pattaya who has a bent immigration policeman at the bank! 

 

[Neeranam]

43 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

When do you claim this started.... last week mine (Retirement Extension) took 1 day?

Well, at least you aren't working. 

[Neeranam]

11 minutes ago, Dart12 said:

Agencies providing retirement "financial services"  are acting as a "bank" to provide loans to retirees to have the correct amount of funds in thai bank (at loan shark rates which is also legal here) making the whole process legal.

Most don't actually lend the money, they pay the IO 10,000 baht to turn a blind eye. 

[Neeranam]

It has to start with not 'forcing' immigration police to buy their position; I know one who paid 10 million baht. Most pay around 1 million.

[jacko45k]

14 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Divide that by 24 and that's how long mine took in P'lok.

Fantastic.... although in Jomtien it was normal to have to go back the next day to collect it. I dropped mine off at the agents in the PM, and they called me late the next day saying ready, but who knows, perhaps they had it done in a day too. 

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and the inflammatory replies have been removed.

[Enzian]

A further thought about "cultural" differences, regarding the issue of providing money to an IO for overlooking the financial requirement in a long stay renewal. If a Thai woman spends time with you in your room, and you put money in her hand when she's leaving, she may well not-as a woman in America would-see that as being paid for sex (also a "crime" in LOS). From her point of view she's "taking care of" you, and you're doing the same for her. I'm not trying to be clever and equate IOs with prostitutes, I'm just referring back to the-still valid I think-time honored view that we westerners will never fully understand the asian mind. The beat goes on.

[jerrymahoney]

20 minutes ago, Enzian said:

I'm just referring back to the-still valid I think-time honored view that we westerners will never fully understand the asian mind. The beat goes on.

This whole thing has come up often enough and I have just decided that, if other people choose to handle their immigration procedures through an agent, that is up-to-them.

 

Personally, although I am not suggesting that it would apply here, as an American there is the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act and that is how choose to look at things:

 

U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. FCPA makes it unlawful for a U.S. person or company to offer, pay, or promise to pay money to any foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business

 

https://www.trade.gov/us-foreign-corrupt-practices-act

[jacko45k]

36 minutes ago, jerrymahoney said:

U.S. Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. FCPA makes it unlawful for a U.S. person or company to offer, pay, or promise to pay money to any foreign official for the purpose of obtaining or retaining business

And they too, like Thailand, turn a blind eye to such laws. Certainly at company level..... I just don't see how a Boeing or an Airbus could be sold to Thailand (and many other countries), without some palms being greased!